<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:creativeCommons="http://backend.userland.com/creativeCommonsRssModule"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Toward a stateless society</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/</link>
	<description>Protect yourself from government gaffes, bureaucratic blunders and incumbent incompetence</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:25:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: How to stay out of government databases - Homeland Stupidity</title>
		<link>http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11523</link>
		<dc:creator>How to stay out of government databases - Homeland Stupidity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 08:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11523</guid>
		<description>[...] worst state, an intolerable one.&#8221; (And a growing number of people believe that government is an unnecessary evil which should be dispensed with as soon as possible so that we can finally have a civilized [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] worst state, an intolerable one.&#8221; (And a growing number of people believe that government is an unnecessary evil which should be dispensed with as soon as possible so that we can finally have a civilized [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jerry A. Pipes</title>
		<link>http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11522</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry A. Pipes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11522</guid>
		<description>The Icelandic Free State referenced in the original posting would seem to contradict your claim.  It seems that the &quot;tribe&quot; can be organized/subdivided in any way that the members find agreeable.  Your argument has merit, I think, but to me it is a stronger argument *for* stateless societies, rather than against them.

As a society grows without bound, how can a monolithic government hope to serve the needs of the people equally?  Sheer efficiency will dictate that the needs and rights of the majority will be respected while the edge cases are ignored or oppressed.  A state is necessarily a one-size-fits-all solution.  A stateless society may not be capable of providing the &quot;services&quot; that we have all come to expect from the Nanny State, but it is also incapable of putting a boot to your throat.  Which, in the end, is far more important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Icelandic Free State referenced in the original posting would seem to contradict your claim.  It seems that the &#8220;tribe&#8221; can be organized/subdivided in any way that the members find agreeable.  Your argument has merit, I think, but to me it is a stronger argument *for* stateless societies, rather than against them.</p>
<p>As a society grows without bound, how can a monolithic government hope to serve the needs of the people equally?  Sheer efficiency will dictate that the needs and rights of the majority will be respected while the edge cases are ignored or oppressed.  A state is necessarily a one-size-fits-all solution.  A stateless society may not be capable of providing the &#8220;services&#8221; that we have all come to expect from the Nanny State, but it is also incapable of putting a boot to your throat.  Which, in the end, is far more important.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11521</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Oct 2006 23:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11521</guid>
		<description>I should point out that before the invent of written law, all of humanity was engaged in &quot;Stateless Societies.&quot;  Those governing were themselves the governed - your neighbor, your friend, your grandfather.  This is the fundamental concept of a tribe - a group of people sufficiently small enough that everyone&#039;s self interest was mutual self interest.  Disinterested States are impossible in such an environment; and the advantage of such a system is that the system itself is designed in every way to benefit everyone [essentially] equally.

While inequality is a fact of existence, wealth was not a tabula rasa for elitism; it meant merely that there was more to share.

I am not speaking of the Noble Savage.  Such a creature never existed, and &#039;harmony&#039; as so many like to hold onto never existed.  But, humans did understand their relationship to the world, and in general respected it (and when they did not, the offenders were usually killed.  Harsh, perhaps, but when someone kills more than they can eat, it compromises the security of *everyone&#039;s* food source).

Law as we know it changed all that.  State-laden societies are only possible when two things are true:

1.  The populace believes the law to be a real object, not one we merely invent for our convenience.

2.  The populace believes &#039;the state&#039; to be a real entity, also not one we merely invent for our convenience.

Both these are the consequence of one simple fact: Humans have a large enough brain that our ability to abstract allows us to believe that our concepts are as real as the rocks and trees around us.  When we can conceive of our abstractions as concrete objects, we become as imprisoned to them as a criminal in jail.

Stateless societies ARE possible.. but not for us, not anymore.  We&#039;re too big, now.  To far away from those we&#039;d govern.  No mutual self interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should point out that before the invent of written law, all of humanity was engaged in &#8220;Stateless Societies.&#8221;  Those governing were themselves the governed &#8211; your neighbor, your friend, your grandfather.  This is the fundamental concept of a tribe &#8211; a group of people sufficiently small enough that everyone&#8217;s self interest was mutual self interest.  Disinterested States are impossible in such an environment; and the advantage of such a system is that the system itself is designed in every way to benefit everyone [essentially] equally.</p>
<p>While inequality is a fact of existence, wealth was not a tabula rasa for elitism; it meant merely that there was more to share.</p>
<p>I am not speaking of the Noble Savage.  Such a creature never existed, and &#8216;harmony&#8217; as so many like to hold onto never existed.  But, humans did understand their relationship to the world, and in general respected it (and when they did not, the offenders were usually killed.  Harsh, perhaps, but when someone kills more than they can eat, it compromises the security of *everyone&#8217;s* food source).</p>
<p>Law as we know it changed all that.  State-laden societies are only possible when two things are true:</p>
<p>1.  The populace believes the law to be a real object, not one we merely invent for our convenience.</p>
<p>2.  The populace believes &#8216;the state&#8217; to be a real entity, also not one we merely invent for our convenience.</p>
<p>Both these are the consequence of one simple fact: Humans have a large enough brain that our ability to abstract allows us to believe that our concepts are as real as the rocks and trees around us.  When we can conceive of our abstractions as concrete objects, we become as imprisoned to them as a criminal in jail.</p>
<p>Stateless societies ARE possible.. but not for us, not anymore.  We&#8217;re too big, now.  To far away from those we&#8217;d govern.  No mutual self interest.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dana Hanley</title>
		<link>http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11520</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana Hanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Oct 2006 02:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11520</guid>
		<description>oh, there are ways to deal with anything in any system.  Some of them are deemed a little barbaric...like our nearly stateless Republic of Texas before annexation:

&quot;At one time, Williamson was commissioned by the president of the Republic of Texas to go to a distant county to hold a term of court. As was so often the case in nineteenth-century Texas, the county was divided into factions that spent most of the time cutting each other&#039;s throats. No courts had been held for years. The citizens had recently convened a meeting in which they adopted a resolution stating that no court should be held (afraid no doubt, of the numerous indictments for murder that would be forthcoming). When Judge Williamson took the bench, a lawyer rose up and read the resolution. When asked by the judge to cite authority for such a resolution, the lawyer pulled a Bowie knife, laid it on the table, and said, &quot;This is the statute which governs in such cases.&quot;
   Judge Williamson, quick as lightning, drew his long pistol and, in an unmistakable tone, replied, &quot;And this is the constitution which overrides the statute.â€ [8]

from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.texasranger.org/dispatch/Backissues/Dispatch_Issue_08.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;texasranger.org&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh, there are ways to deal with anything in any system.  Some of them are deemed a little barbaric&#8230;like our nearly stateless Republic of Texas before annexation:</p>
<p>&#8220;At one time, Williamson was commissioned by the president of the Republic of Texas to go to a distant county to hold a term of court. As was so often the case in nineteenth-century Texas, the county was divided into factions that spent most of the time cutting each other&#8217;s throats. No courts had been held for years. The citizens had recently convened a meeting in which they adopted a resolution stating that no court should be held (afraid no doubt, of the numerous indictments for murder that would be forthcoming). When Judge Williamson took the bench, a lawyer rose up and read the resolution. When asked by the judge to cite authority for such a resolution, the lawyer pulled a Bowie knife, laid it on the table, and said, &#8220;This is the statute which governs in such cases.&#8221;<br />
   Judge Williamson, quick as lightning, drew his long pistol and, in an unmistakable tone, replied, &#8220;And this is the constitution which overrides the statute.â€ [8]</p>
<p>from <a href="http://www.texasranger.org/dispatch/Backissues/Dispatch_Issue_08.pdf" rel="nofollow">texasranger.org</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jerry A. Pipes</title>
		<link>http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11519</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry A. Pipes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11519</guid>
		<description>So the polluter would owe damages to *every* ocean owner in the world?  Interesting.  Assuming the details of that scenario could be worked out, how would one trace the source of the pollution in the first place?  It&#039;s not like a river, where everything is flowing in one direction.  Sure, there are some prevailing currents, but I don&#039;t believe it would be easy to find a point source of pollution, especially if it was inside a sufficiently large parcel of ocean.  And if one could construct a system that was sophisticated enough to sense and track pollution sources, who pays to build and maintain it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the polluter would owe damages to *every* ocean owner in the world?  Interesting.  Assuming the details of that scenario could be worked out, how would one trace the source of the pollution in the first place?  It&#8217;s not like a river, where everything is flowing in one direction.  Sure, there are some prevailing currents, but I don&#8217;t believe it would be easy to find a point source of pollution, especially if it was inside a sufficiently large parcel of ocean.  And if one could construct a system that was sophisticated enough to sense and track pollution sources, who pays to build and maintain it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nigel Watt</title>
		<link>http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11518</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Watt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 18:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11518</guid>
		<description>The polluter would owe the pollutees (if that were a word) the cost of the pollution to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The polluter would owe the pollutees (if that were a word) the cost of the pollution to them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jerry A. Pipes</title>
		<link>http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11517</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry A. Pipes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 17:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11517</guid>
		<description>Privatize the oceans?  Nice trick.  Even if you could manage a workable system of subdivision and titling, how do you prevent the contaminated water in one parcel of the ocean from spreading to others?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Privatize the oceans?  Nice trick.  Even if you could manage a workable system of subdivision and titling, how do you prevent the contaminated water in one parcel of the ocean from spreading to others?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nigel Watt</title>
		<link>http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11516</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Watt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 15:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11516</guid>
		<description>Pollution of the oceans? Privatize the oceans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pollution of the oceans? Privatize the oceans.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: J. Bruno</title>
		<link>http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11515</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Bruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11515</guid>
		<description>That book has nothing to do with capitalism. Within the first few paragraphs the main character makes decisions that anyone with the mental capacity of a toaster can see are not in his best interest. I&#039;m sure in the last chapter we&#039;re supposed to be aghast when he runs in front of a bus because government never warned him about nor protected him from such dangers. But I wonder if there&#039;s a chapter in which a semi-socialist government takes over and subsequently jacks up the price of medical treatment to point where &lt;i&gt;few who aren&#039;t corporate employees can receive it&lt;/i&gt;. Now that&#039;s the kind of fascism that suspends my disbelief.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That book has nothing to do with capitalism. Within the first few paragraphs the main character makes decisions that anyone with the mental capacity of a toaster can see are not in his best interest. I&#8217;m sure in the last chapter we&#8217;re supposed to be aghast when he runs in front of a bus because government never warned him about nor protected him from such dangers. But I wonder if there&#8217;s a chapter in which a semi-socialist government takes over and subsequently jacks up the price of medical treatment to point where <i>few who aren&#8217;t corporate employees can receive it</i>. Now that&#8217;s the kind of fascism that suspends my disbelief.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jerry A. Pipes</title>
		<link>http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11514</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry A. Pipes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 12:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/10/11/toward-a-stateless-society/#comment-11514</guid>
		<description>An interesting, albeit humorous, look at what a stateless society might look like is available in Max Barry&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://maxbarry.com/jennifergovernment/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jennifer Government&lt;/a&gt;.  It highlights one potential set of problems with a free market justice system, namely justice for those too poor to afford it.

There is also the issue of pollution of our oceans that I have not yet seen adequately addressed by any fellow anarcho-capitalist.

But I too am willing to give it a shot and see how it might work, since I agree with Jefferson when he said, &quot;I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting, albeit humorous, look at what a stateless society might look like is available in Max Barry&#8217;s <a href="http://maxbarry.com/jennifergovernment/" rel="nofollow">Jennifer Government</a>.  It highlights one potential set of problems with a free market justice system, namely justice for those too poor to afford it.</p>
<p>There is also the issue of pollution of our oceans that I have not yet seen adequately addressed by any fellow anarcho-capitalist.</p>
<p>But I too am willing to give it a shot and see how it might work, since I agree with Jefferson when he said, &#8220;I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Dynamic page generated in 0.094 seconds. -->
<!-- Cached page generated by WP-Super-Cache on 2012-02-09 08:34:10 -->
<!-- Compression = gzip -->
