If you have a remote controlled garage door opener, you may need to get it replaced, and soon, before the military rolls out its new Land Mobile Radios which interfere with them.
One year ago today I told you about the Land Mobile Radio system, which the Department of Defense is rolling out in order to use radio spectrum more efficiently. The radios use frequencies between 380 and 399 MHz, frequencies which are licensed to DoD but which many garage door openers also use for their remote controls.
When the radio system is in use, garage door openers in the area will fail intermittently, or just stop working entirely, as has happened in Ottawa, Ontario, and most recently, in Colorado Springs, Colo.
The Cheyenne Mountain Air Station, which houses the North American Aerospace Defense Command, tested the system last week, interfering with garage door openers all across the area. “They have turned it off to be good neighbors,” Air Force Capt. Tracy Giles told the Associated Press.
In general, effects from the transmissions would be felt only within 10 miles, but the Colorado Springs signal is beamed from atop 6,184-foot Cheyenne Mountain, which likely extends the range.
Holly Strack, who lives near the entrance to the facility, said friends in the neighborhood all had the same problem.
“I never thought my garage door was a threat to national security,” she said. — Associated Press
The system has also been tested at Eglin Air Force Base, Fla.; the Defense Distribution Depot Susquehanna near New Cumberland, Pa.; and Ft. Detrick, Md., resulting in thousands of complaints, according to a 2005 Government Accountability Office report (PDF).
If the Air Force is unable to resolve the interference by retuning their system, homeowners would have to replace their garage door openers with devices that use different frequencies. Under Federal Communications Commission rules, unlicensed devices such as garage door openers must accept any interference received from licensed users of a frequency.
Except where otherwise noted, content on this site is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works license.
Video published by this site is licensed under a Creative Commons Sampling+ license.
Bad Behavior has blocked 3293 access attempts in the last 7 days.
Facebook
Digg
del.icio.us
reddit.com
Newsvine
Abdul
Dec 04, 2006
Look on the bright side — it doesn’t interfere with WiFi.
John
Dec 06, 2006
This will become more of a problem as venders who use unlicensed spectrum for their wares continue to meet up with a party who is licensed to operate. Venders should look at the national/federal rules and regulations on spectrum so as not to be hindered in the future. Since this is the same problem cited in Flordia several years ago the vender’s i.e. manufacturers should have taken steps to replace those system where ever they sell garage door systems. A notice should be given to the potential customer that a change in frequency will be necessary.
Maybe the venders should try to acquire licensed spectrum to be protected.
r l
Dec 06, 2006
Interference. Intermittent car false alarms? Grocerie stores automatic doors. And intermittent Service Engine Soon lights. It also causes my tv remote to lock up. I have heard that some tv remotes can trigger a car alarm. And it causes my cordless phone to intermittenly light up like it is recieving an incomming call. Cross talk.
Late for work story. “there was a power outage and we were stranded on the ESCALATOR for hours”.
Anonymous
Dec 06, 2006
It would be interesting to hear from any local Doctors or Hospital staff on pacemaker interference and other medical devices that could also have been jammed…
ee-engineer
Dec 06, 2006
By FCC regulations, virtually all consumer electronic devices “MUST” accept outside interference, and that can result in improper operation. Even nearby microwave ovens can “jam” your wireless phones, bluetooth, wireless cameras, etc. It’s frequency-range-specific, and some devices are easier to disrupt than others.
An infra-red TV remote (optical control) is NOT going to set off a car alarm (radio control) and virtually all modern TV remotes are optical. The alarm would more likely be accidently “set-off” by signal injection from a very close FRS radio or a cell-phone. But in general, current alarm systems are intelligent enough to minimize this.
Fire Departments, Police, and other community service groups have also recently acquired radio spectrum that can interfere with certain consumer devices. The FCC also took away spectrum space from other groups that were already using some of these frequencies. These are FCC decisions made as radio spectrum is constantly being changed to meet changing needs. There will be ongoing conflicts now and in the future. Sometimes it’s politically motivated, sometimes monetarily motivated, and sometimes just technology driven.
In some cases, you can change the “code” your consumer device uses and the interference will be substantially reduced or disappear. In other cases, you can try shortening the receiver antenna, or use appropriately placed metal or mesh shielding to reduce sensitivity.
tod foulk
Dec 07, 2006
I fully agree with post no. 5 by ee-engineer. now what I want to know is will it come thru on my kid’s braces? Just kidding, but 1st brain damaged cetatceans due to the navy’s newest sonar, and now our gargages. Maybe I will speculate on Coast to Coast AM News Years Prediction Show. I doubt it will be pleasant….
Av8r
Dec 07, 2006
This band of frequencies has been in use since the ’40′s as the military aircraft UHF communications band. Military aircraft have been flying around at altitude therefore extending the range for decades. Now all of a sudden there’s a problem just because they’re using it on the ground with less range? I don’t think so! This is much adue about nothing. The military is just better utilizing a band of frequencies it has had for over 50 years.
Doughboy
Dec 11, 2006
Simple solution:
Park your SUVs outside — car thieves, car salesfolk, and insurance folk need work, too!!
Highlander
Dec 15, 2006
Av8r,
While you are most correct in your assertions regarding long term usage of the frequency bands remarked of, you neglect to consider that the technology being used is spread spectrum, and as such causes problems not otherwise seen before.
Your experience with those frequiences is essentially voice comm.
Most garage door openers operate on two or more selected frequencies, which are the =only= frequencies ‘listened for’ by the opener radio receiver.
If those frequencies are being jammed by the new radios, then there will be interference which causes malfunctions, if even only one of those frequencies is interfered with.
Lynford Turner
Dec 21, 2006
To get rid of the problem all you have to do is add another radio with a relay in series to your present radio relay in your operator. You’ll have to push two buttons to open the door but the government will not be spooking your radio controlled operator anymore either.
Lynford Turner
Highlander
Dec 21, 2006
Lynford Turner,
An interesting proposition.
However, a more suitable one, is to use another technology altogether, and negate the interference completely.
Remember: What isn’t listened for, isn’t heard.
DOD Radio Manager
Jan 03, 2007
Highlander.
You should actually know what you’re talking about before you talk. I run a DOD LMR system. The DOD LMR is not spread spectrum. Do you even know what spread spectrum means?
Military LMR is digital trunking radio, regular FM, not spread spectrum. It’s the exact same radio system used by cities and states for public safety LMR – just in the DOD 380 – 399.9 UHF band.
The garage door manufacturers have been asking for this to happen for years. They don’t have use of this band, and the DOD does, so if your door doesn’t work, don’t talk to us, talk to the morons who decided to use DOD freqs in their commercial equipment.
Highlander
Jan 04, 2007
dod radio manager.
I guess that says it all.
Far be it from any of the rest of us to cast pearls of wisdom in your path, you freaking fascist.
Tit-For-Tat
Jan 09, 2007
dod radio manager
When I was young I was taught to respect authority. So, I did. Then I found out that about 90% of authority were habitual control freaks and probably narcissistic as well! I’ll start with firemen, then police and now any DOD employee that feels it’s his/her given right to assign the name of “moron” to a group of people who actually work for a living by using the web or any other long distance device. Based on your name calling by long distance you shouldn’t mind if I include that you’re indeed an arrogant bastard.
I was also taught to always be nice first and if that didn’t work, be nicer. If that didn’t work then it’s OK to fuck over the the SOB. I perceive that you come from a long line of connected government employed arrogant bastards who believe you’re somehow connected to God. You actually didn’t succeed in impressing anybody other than to prove
that you and all your ilk need major attitude adjustments.
Tit-For-Tat
{A Former Garage Door Radio Control Engineer}
DOD Radio Manager
Jan 09, 2007
Highlander:
I put forth logical, objective arguments and you respond, not with logic, but only by calling me a fascist.
Nuff said, ahhh reckon.
Tit-For-Tat {A Former Garage Door Radio Control Engineer}:
First off, I’m not a civil service employee with a “god complex”. I’m a lowly (albeit well paid) contractor, and the only right I claim is that of objectively assessing the task and completing it in the best and most efficient manner possible.
I called the garage door manufacturers morons for choosing to market a remote in licensed military frequencies because, basically, that’s pretty damn stupid. No other way to put it. That’s a bonehead move, right there. Part 15 is Part 15; if you don’t know what that means you have no business in this discussion.
Second, I do, indeed, tend to be an arrogant bastard.
Arrogance works. Everything I touch works. My customers think I walk on water, and that’s because I do. I don’t see a need to change it if some inconsequential observer is offended. I do shit. My shit works. I get paid handsomely for that. Sounds fair to me. QED. That even rhymes. I’m impressed.
As to being nice, you know, I think you have me there. I have a tendency to roll over people who are being nice instead of getting shit done. Call it a character trait.
I take great satisfaction from hearing a fire company roll out, saving lives, on a call and knowing it’s my stuff that made that work. I like hearing from police who enjoy being able to run a plate on some miscreant on a mobile data terminal I installed rather than having to call in his information letter by letter.
I don’t need an attitude adjustment.
I think, conversely, you need a reality adjustment.
In fundamental terms, I’m Atlas, holding the world on my shoulders, and you’re a small insect standing on top, complaining about the view.
Don’t complaint too stridently; I might shrug. Then you’d have to do my job. Can you? I hope your house does not burn down….
Highlander
Jan 09, 2007
Dear DOD radio manager,
The more you ‘speak,’ the more obvious it becomes that you aren’t anywhere near as smart as you think yourself to be. If arrogance replaces intelligence, then you are completely hopeless.
DOD Radio Manager
Jan 09, 2007
Arrogance doesn’t configure a router to make fire house alerting work, allowing the fire department the ability to be called out to save your butt when your house catches on fire. Intelligence does.
Arrogance does, however, come in very handy when idiots like you try to stand in the way and bite the hand that’s saving them.
Again, I say, can you replace me? If I shrug, will you burn?
Yep.
Don’t worry, I won’t. My arrogance and pride stand in the
way.
DOD Radio Manager
Jan 09, 2007
Intelligent comments?
Predictions: you’ll see taing here, but no beef.
Tit-For-Tat
Jan 09, 2007
DOD Prick
You’re a contractor without a “god complex?†But you do claim to walk on water? You do admit to being an arrogant bastard? You’re paid handsomely for your shit?
You need to attenuate your spurious harmonics asshole, you’re being heard on every channel.
*******
“As to being nice, you know, I think you have me there. I have a tendency to roll over people who are being nice instead of getting shit done. Call it a character trait.â€
*******
You sound more like an asshole rapist than somebody who really gets the job done. With all of your bragging I suspect that you’re a wop, if not, you could easily substitute for one.
In any case just reading your last post I’m forced to say that,
If you were built like a dog you’d kiss your own ass.
Indeed, you’re nothing more than a connected mouthy turd control freak and a self loving narcissist as well!
So, since nothing has changed, try to calm down, maybe jump off a bridge or something.
Tit-For-Tat
DOD Radio Manager
Jan 09, 2007
p.s.
If you don’t know what taing is, don’t ask. suffice it to say it has to do with the cosmic conjunctions of Merlot and fat fingers.
DOD Radio Manager
Jan 09, 2007
Tit-For-Tat:
You’re foaming at the mouth.
Is there any objective argument having anything to do with the argument in your post?
Nope.
I see nothing to argue with here…. nothing but meaningless adolescent blathering.
Sheesh.
Give me something, ANYTHING, to respond to other than (as my 15 Y/O son would say), EMO.
Where’s the beef?
[Same old story, the objectivist reasons; the subjectivist whines and spouts nonsense]
DOD Radio Manager
Jan 09, 2007
p.s.
First a fascist, not a rapist. What’s an objectivist to do?
Highlander
Jan 10, 2007
DOD,
Quote:
“I see nothing to argue with here…. nothing but meaningless adolescent blathering.”
Unquote.
Nice of you to recognize your own faults.
Tit-For-Tat
Jan 10, 2007
dod Wop Prick
I described your situation in my first post. There is no need to carry on with further with your bullshit. You Wops are all smoke and mirrors, mostly mirrors. I can never win a discussion with a self loving asshole control freak.
Nothing has changed! The whole thing is about your rotten fucking attitude in calling other folks names. Based on your heritage and arrogant self admiring stupidity I say go on, keep kissing your own ass and feeling good about it.
Any dialogue that you participate in would have to be controlled by you. That’s the mark of a fucking control freak wop.
SimonGodot
Jan 15, 2007
I have a serious question, serious as in I am really not interested in buying a new garage door opener, seeing as how mine came with my new house and now I have to stuff the remote up my garage doors ass to get it to open.
Would this effect be line of sight oriented, I can see the mountain, I can see the towers. My neighbor on one side has the same problem, my neighbor, who’s view is blocked by another house, does not. Is it possible for this effect to by a hit this house, miss that one type of thing???
Thanks
Highlander
Jan 16, 2007
Simon,
Without knowing more particulars, such as the orientation of the houses, and other things, allow me to remark as follows:
If the neighbor who has no problem has aluminum siding, or has some form of metal sheeting/roofing, then likely that’s one of the reasons he doesn’t have a problem, but just as likely, the operating frequency of his unit might differ from yours.
Without seeking help from a professional with frequency scanning equipment, to determine what the effects might be, my suggestion is to contact the company that installed the opener, and assess them of the problem of operation.
Big point: DO NOT mention the matter of interfering frequencies to them.
Rather, let them figure out the matter, and offer a solution.
If you advise them of what you consider to be the problem, they might just excuse themselves from providing a fix. Remember: They provided a warrantee. Let them provide you with a fix under that warrantee.
DOD Radio Manager
Jan 16, 2007
The line of sight could affect the interferance. In such close proximity, i doubt it – UHF doesn’t really work that way. It is more likely his opener is on a different frequency.
Highlander
Jan 16, 2007
DOD radio manager,
UHF (300Mhz to 3Ghz) is considered line-of-sight, as it rarely travels over the visible horizon.
SimonGodot
Jan 16, 2007
Gentlemen…
More all 6 homes garage doors face the same direction and have the same elevation (within 20 feet). All homes are 4 years old and have the exact same garage door openers Chamberlain 1/3 hp running on a freq of 390 Mhz. My neighbor to the East is having similiar problems, my 4 neighbors to the West are not.
Using an AM radio tuned to static in the 540 Khz range I am not able to discern any significant interference from any electronic objects in or around my home.
I have additionally had problems disarming car alarms for both a Ford Truck and a Lexus SUV, when parked in the garage or driveway.
Additionally, problems with a fob control for Xmas lights, range used to be 100+ feet, reduced to 4 feet in the interior of the home.
Homes are of Stucco Construction, garage doors are aluminium or steel, whatever is the industry standard for Southern California.
I am line of sight to Santiago Peak (5,000+ feet) and covered in radio towers, dopler radars, cell towers, repeaters, etc.
SimonGodot
Jan 16, 2007
Sorry that should read More Info: All 6 homes…
Highlander
Jan 16, 2007
Simon,
Once again, contact the company that installed the opener.
Anything short of that is going to require someone with a spectrum analyzer and antennas cut to the frequency/frequiencies of the device(s) in question.
Until you figure out what the interference is, you won’t accomplish much.
There’s an additional thought: The FCC – in almost all cases – demands that equipment =MUST= accept interference as a part of its type design.
Now, you might attempt a way around that criteria by discovering what frequency is interfering with your equipment, and have a trap designed to at least partially prevent that interference.
And finally, an AM radio tuned to 540Khz will not detect much of anything transmitting at 390Mhz – unless the radiated field was so close as to swamp every tuned circuit in the area.
One additional question: Are your house wattmeters remotely read? It’s another possibility to consider.
SimonGodot
Jan 16, 2007
My neighbors to the west that I spoke of, yeah their having problems too. Garage doors start going up, then stop for no apparent reason.
News Flash…
The Naval Surface Warfare Center Corona, CA is 6 miles due North of my location and a direct line of sight… sigh…
Lynford Turner
Feb 05, 2007
I like to tinker with electronics so I made up a circuit that works on my garage door extremely well. I wired a small low power high gain amplifier to two audio resonate circuits where both would pull in its own individual relay when the two tones were present. The relays are wired in series and when closed they will operate the garage door opener.
The input to the amplifier is connected to a simple coil of wire, number 32 varnished, with a diameter of about three inches. I biased the input transistor through the coil.
Then for the transmitter I made two stable audio oscillators and wired them into an amplifier of the same type where the output was hooked up to a coil just like the coil on the receiver. I mounted the transmitter om the inside portion of the grille of my pickup and now when I push the button the door is actuated every time. There is no actual RF, just audio and the coils radiate about thirty feet which is good enough to actuate the door every time.
Highlander
Feb 06, 2007
Lynford,
Well, it sounds as if you’ve got your problem solved.
But, just so you know, you really are radiating RF, albeit in the VLF (3khz-30Khz) and ULF (300hz – 3khz), and SLF (30hz – 300) bands respectively, depending upon the frequencies used.
Robert Delahunt
Feb 07, 2007
You’re retarded. I work on the UHF/VHF systems on aircraft for the US military. They’re not the same frequency of operation, unless your home builder used krappy equipment. The military uses frequencies that are allocated to it by the FCC. If your garage door operner is listening on those frequencies, it was improperly designed.
Have a nice day.
Michael Hampton
Feb 07, 2007
That’s the point: there are a whole LOT of garage door openers out there using frequencies that were allocated to the Department of Defense.
For more information see the FCC’s public notice (PDF) and our previous story.
Highlander
Feb 07, 2007
Robert,
Nice of you to drop by …
Say, look: Before you decide to poop on the rest of us, I’d ask only one thing: Please describe every federal regulation you would propose the rest of us read, before shoving such up our respective behinds – or down our throats.
Remember this: NO LAW OF MAN HAS EVER STOPPED ANYTHING FROM HAPPENING.
If can manage to find a law which has?
Well, puhleeeeze, inform the illuminati of your discovery!!
In the meantime? Please leave the rest of us alone …
DOD Radio Manager
Feb 07, 2007
Highlander finally shows his true colors, weighing in AGAINST the rule of law. This makes him an anarchist. I don’t believe I need say more.
SimonGodot
Feb 08, 2007
Dear Mr. Delahunt,
Thank you for taking the time to call my intellect into question.
I have a few points to make…
#1 you need to pay attention…
The article clearly states that the Land Mobile Radio System operates in the 380 to 399 MHz range.
And more than likely this radio system uses a very broad spectrum, transmitting across the entire range of 380 to 399 Mhz, so that our enemies will not be able to purchase a $100 scanner from Radio Shack (no slur intended towards Radio Shack mind you) and spy on our top secret communications.
#2 You really, really need to pay attention. This is also mentioned in the article…
90% of the garage door openers in America operate in this frequency range. The specific frequency for my garage door is 390 Mhz. Which just happens to be smack dab in the middle of 380Mhz and 399Mhz.
The frequencies in question have not been in use by the military until the roll out of this radio system.
Now I am going to say this very slowly, since you have proclaimed very loudly your inability to put a coherent thought together without duct tape and a staple gun.
Get to work… I am sure your CO would be so pleased to read your half-witted, brain-dead rant while brave soldiers are dying in the field.
Sincerely,
Simon Godot aka the retard
p.s. Numnut, get a dictionary and learn to spell already, I can’t believe they let you fix equipment that lives depend upon.
p.s.s. You are a Smacktard…
DOD Radio Manager
Feb 08, 2007
Simon:
Radio Shack DOES carry a scanner that can scan military trunking systems, It runs $550. It won’t get you past the encryption, though, so save your money.
A trunking system uses banks of radios, each on fixed individual Tx/Rx frequency pairs. They are arraigned throughout the band quite randomly, depending on where we can get licenses for frequencies which will not interfere with any other nearby licensed users in the area, or cause intermod problems. So they tend to cluster around 385 for Tx and 395 for Rx, depending on the system’s band plan. We don’t have to be right on 390 to interfere with garage door openers, though – the receivers for those are pretty wide band. So unfortunately most of them near a military trunking repeater site will be swamped by the signal.
With my particular system, during design we made an attempt to steer away from 390 as far as possible, which has somewhat mitigated the affect of the public.
Bottom line is – the manufacturers have the onus of blame, and need to provide new radios to their customers.
Lynford Turner
Feb 08, 2007
Hello Highlander
Happy to see that you’re read up on the illuminati. There are people who stick right to the law because that’s the safe and cowardly thing to do.
On the RF radiation that you commented on regarding my RF-Less transmitter, I’m aware that the gov. claims some low frequency audio areas in the neighborhood of my little circuit. I always thought they claimed 10Khtz on up, but then, I’m an old man who hasn’t been active in the business for a lot of years. I really don’t have to worry about interfering with anybody. I live in the middle of 80 acres where the closest house or neighbor is a half mile away.
I got the idea for the circuit from a Radio Shack hard-of-Hearing aid that simply used a coil and and amplifier to a headphone. The wearer would sit within twenty feet of the TV set and the radiation from the TV speakers could be inductively picked up and listened to.
Of course there was another thing that happened back in the 50s where I made a device the same as Radio Shacks circuit except it had a speaker output. I used it where I worked to detect radiation instruments from being shipped from the company where I worked in a “turned-on” condition. The instruments had a 400 cycle oscillator in the circuit and if the switch was on that 400 cycles was easily detected.
Lynford Turner
Feb 08, 2007
I forgot to mention something
Several years ago, I don’t remember exactly what year, I read a notice from the FCC that said something to the effect that they welcomed some experimental use of the military frequencies where the garage door operators now operate. I’m sure they wern’t giving a license to do it but they did say it was welcomed.
As I understand it. I could be wrong, but when the FCC wants to make a new rule, they can. Apparently the law for full coverage of the radio spectrum is in their hands. Therefore a rule as dreamed up by them literally becomes a law. I say that because they can enforce it.
Anyway, since publications by any part of the government are well documented I would presume that little offer for somebody to experiment in that frequency range might still be available on the web in one of the archived papers.
If it is then there might be an argument favoring the engineers who design garage door radios in that RF area.
Radio Manager
Feb 08, 2007
Lynford,
You just don’t get it do you.
Facts:
1. Frequencies are controlled by law, by the FCC. If you’re arguing with that, you’re pissin into the wind. Join Highlander’s Anarchist club.
2. 380 – 399.99 MHz has be licensed to the DOD for a long, long, time. The garage door opener manufacturers knew this from day one.
3. Garage door openers are Part 15 devices. If they are disabled by licensed users of the band (the DOD), too bad, so sad. The engineers should have thought about that during design.
The public has been victimized; not by the government, but by the door manufacturers. Comparing wholesale use of unlicensed frequencies for profit to “experimental use” (if such a notice ever existed, which I doubt), is patently ludicrous.
Highlander
Feb 08, 2007
Dearest DOD radio manager,
You are such an arrogant twit.
I find it interesting that you camp out here, and troll to no end.
If you don’t like the thoughts expressed, or if you have a problem with people desiring to remark about how they’ed like to be free once again, free from government intrusion into their lives, and free from men and women expressing a degree of oppression against all others, then maybe it’s you who needs to get a life.
The fact that I express a strong desire to be free from intrusive and overbearing government, that I merely just want to go about my life, unencumbered by the likes of yourself, does NOT in any way, manner, fashion, shape, or form, imply that I am an anarchist.
Although, after reading your particular words, and how you’ve expressed yourself in a thoroughly arrogant fashion, I’m inclined to believe that it would be infinitely more preferable to live with an anarchist, than for even the merest of moments with someone like yourself.
If the only thing you have left in this life is to put other people down, then maybe it’s high time that you took a bloody damned good look at yourself in the mirror, and ask: “why?”
TiT-For-Tat
Feb 08, 2007
To DOD Wop Prick
I’m curious, would you call all the black people Anarchist? They broke laws from A-Z and look what they got out of doing it. One of them is probably screwing your old lady while you’re at work. Are you going to say that they’re stupid and just don’t get it? Come on fellow, admit it, you’re a hypocrite. You know darn well that you’ve operated some little transmitter illegally at one time or another. You also knew at the time it was illegal, didn’t-cha?
You remind me of one of those jerks who demand that other people obey the law at all times and feel they have no reason to object to the times when you take puff on some of that wacky-tobacky. I’m in a pretty good mood right now so I’ll end this post by reminding you that you’re a genuine control freak creep you fucking wop.
Lynford Turner
Feb 09, 2007
radio mgr.
Yes I get it, always had it and you’ve not enlightened me on anything new. I agree with you that the rules do exist as you say. I also wonder why the FCC failed to stop the garage door outfits from manufacturing and illegally selling radios on controlled frequencies. As for the invitation to the public experimentation, that still holds. I did read it someplace, can’t account for where, it was a long time ago, it could have been at a forum that I attended long ago on frequency allocation, It surely was not a rule, I really don’t give a qrap what you think.
And then you add: ” (if such a notice ever existed, which I doubt), is patently ludicrous.”
Now you’re calling me a liar. Just so you understand that I don’t like that kind of thing I need to add this:
You do write intelligently and use the FCC rules. However you use your rule book to back up your name calling and offensive allegations. You’re bootlicker, an ass kisser and in my day I’ve fired at minimum twenty of your likes with no loss. Ass kissers are never real producers. They always write excellent reports, they appear very busy but their real speciality is company politics and survival on the payroll. I’ve examined ass kissers like you many times over and have yet to find any significant contributions made for the benefit of the company.
Radio Manager [DOD]
Feb 10, 2007
Well, I’ve struck some nerves, and as a good troll, I’ll have to – quote and rebut – in turn.
Highlander
“If you don’t like the thoughts expressed, or if you have a problem with people desiring to remark about how they’ed like to be free once again, free from government intrusion ” bla bla bla
I don’t have a problem with people expressing opinions, naturally including my own. I enjoy the give-and-take of the discussion.
“The fact that I express a strong desire to be free from intrusive and overbearing government, that I merely just want to go about my life, unencumbered by the likes of yourself, does NOT in any way, manner, fashion, shape, or form, imply that I am an anarchist.”
“Remember this: NO LAW OF MAN HAS EVER STOPPED ANYTHING FROM HAPPENING.”
Your statements prove you are indeed, an anarchist. You either believe in the rule of law, or you don’t. You don’t. QED.
“Although, after reading your particular words, and how you’ve expressed yourself in a thoroughly arrogant fashion, I’m inclined to believe that it would be infinitely more preferable to live with an anarchist, than for even the merest of moments with someone like yourself.”
Translation: I’d rather continue my irrational viewpoint than look at the facts presented with cold, hard reason, and change my mind.
“If the only thing you have left in this life is to put other people down, then maybe it’s high time that you took a bloody damned good look at yourself in the mirror, and ask: “why?—
This is the regular specious liberal argument I see time and again: Why do you have to put people down, can’t you just be nice? I’m just arguing a point, if you don’t like it, and you don’t have a reasoning counterpoint, you cry about being “put down”. Waaaaaa. And BTW, I do ask a question every morning when I look in the mirror; it isn’t “why”, it’s “why not”.
Highlander is done, Tit-for-Tat is … next.
Michael Hampton
Feb 10, 2007
This discussion has gone far from military radios and garage door openers. Not that I mind so much, because it’s quite interesting. But let me suggest that it’s more reasonable to use reason and logic than personal attacks.
Now, with regard to “anarchy” and the “rule of law” I have a couple of things to say.
Whether you believe in the rule of law or not, you should at least understand the theory behind it: that it was superior than the alternative it replaced, rule by a single dictator (or king).
Initially, this worked out pretty well, for the most part. Representatives chosen by and accountable to the people made laws, the most wholesome and good for the benefit of the public. At least most of the time.
What has happened, however, is that this system has been perverted. Representatives are no longer truly accountable to the people, and pass laws which are not wholesome and cause harm to the people. These representatives continue to be elected because they’ve purchased their re-election campaigns wholesale, and because the people don’t (or can’t) hold them accountable.
It’s possible to fix the system, in theory. Though there’s no way to ensure that it can’t be perverted again.
A few people, who call themselves anarchists, put forth the idea that it’s time for the “rule of law” to be consigned, along with the “divine right of kings,” to the dustbin of history where it belongs, and time for a new system of governance — self-rule.
Radio Manager [DOD]
Feb 10, 2007
“To DOD Wop Prick”
I am an American. My bloodlines run back to england and Germany. These are the facts. I personally don’t have anything against Italians (like you seem to), and I do not use the term “Wop”.
“I’m curious, would you call all the black people Anarchist?”
Why are you bringing race into this? Everyone take a note – he brought race into it; I didn’t. The reason is because I am race-blind. He, obviously, is not. I don’t care why he’s that way – I’m not, because that is wrong.
“They broke laws from A-Z and look what they got out of doing it. One of them is probably screwing your old lady while you’re at work.”
If my wife wanted to screw someone while I was at work, whatever the race, I’m having a hard time reasoning what that would have to do with UHF interference with garage door openers. ummm. WTF?
“Are you going to say that they’re stupid and just don’t get it? Come on fellow, admit it, you’re a hypocrite. You know darn well that you’ve operated some little transmitter illegally at one time or another. You also knew at the time it was illegal, didn’t-cha?”
Yes I have. I’ve done that on a not-to-interfere basis. Call it expedient civil disobedience. Again, what does this have to do with the discussion topic? And I’m the troll???? Ahmen.
“You remind me of one of those jerks who demand that other people obey the law at all times and feel they have no reason to object to the times when you take puff on some of that wacky-tobacky. I’m in a pretty good mood right now so I’ll end this post by reminding you that you’re a genuine control freak creep you fucking wop.”
Again, I’m of English and German ancestry. What’s with the WOP crap? I pay my taxes and obey laws when it suits me – which is 99% of the time. I like the structure of the Law protecting me in my pursuit of happiness. I control myself and I morally refuse to control others. If that makes me a control freak, so be it.
And now, Mr. Lynford Turner is…. next.
Radio Manager [DOD]
Feb 10, 2007
Mr. Hampton,
You present a very interesting viewpoint and argument. I understand where you’re coming from, vis-a-vis “this system has been perverted”. I see the same thing. So far, I find myself able to live legally within the framework of what is happening in the US. I’m not promising that I will forever. I don’t like the way things are going, and I sense you don’t either.
“A few people, who call themselves anarchists, put forth the idea that it’s time for the “rule of law†to be consigned, along with the “divine right of kings,†to the dustbin of history where it belongs, and time for a new system of governance — self-rule.”
This is where we part company. You see, self rule and true democracy are completely congruent. Government’s true job is to protect the rights of self-ruling individuals whilst they pursue their lives in freedom. To protect us from each other.
When government starts codifying a particular morality – whatever it may be – which has not much to do with the protection of freedom in the leanest sense – that’s when democracy has gone out the window. We’re seeing allot of that today, but all is not lost. But it does bear watching.
What do you think?
Highlander
Feb 10, 2007
Dearest DOD Radio Manager,
For as much time as you spend here, one has to wonder just how good of a ‘radio manager’ you are. Don’t you have some radios to manage somewhere?
Oh, and one other thing: My remark regarding ‘no law of man has ever stopped anything from happening’?
I will take it on good faith, that since you haven’t been able to refute it, or even effectively dismiss that remark, that it holds true.
Actually, it is a truism: No law of man has =ever= stopped anything from happening.
And since that is indeed the case, then the only thing people should be punished for is for the wrongs they do to other’s lives, liberty, and/or property.
Further, Michael Hampton’s final statement concerning self-rule pretty much states the case:
“A few people, who call themselves anarchists, put forth the idea that it’s time for the “rule of law†to be consigned, along with the “divine right of kings,†to the dustbin of history where it belongs, and time for a new system of governance — self-rule.”
Obviously, it’s you, dear manager, that can’t handle individual liberty, and instead demand to be lead around with a dog collar on you neck, along with an attached leash, defining precisely where it is you might go, and be jerked around once in a while just to let you know who’s really boss.
Famous words from one of the founders of this nation, just for you:
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!â€
Samuel Adams
Radio Manager [DOD]
Feb 10, 2007
I guess Mr. turner will have to wait – I’ll give Highlander one more response, although I tire of repeating myself with him, over and over.
“For as much time as you spend here, one has to wonder just how good of a ‘radio manager’ you are. Don’t you have some radios to manage somewhere?”
I’m watching the system with my laptop right now, and it’s doing just fine. Booked a coupla hours of overtime this morning fixin a recalcitrant fire-house alerting system. What has this to do with me holding forth on the internet in a discussion? Nothing.
“the only thing people should be punished for is for the wrongs they do to other’s lives, liberty, and/or property.”
We have agreement! I could not agree with you more. Where you go wrong is confusing the rule of law and the above quote. The law’s only true purpose in a democracy is to punish people for interfering with other people’s liberty.
In the case of spectrum management, obviously, if the government had no laws, everyone would use whatever spectrum they wanted, and interfere with one another endlessly, and nothing would work! We all need the government to control the spectrum. Nothing wrong with it.
“Obviously, it’s you, dear manager, that can’t handle individual liberty, and instead demand to be lead around with a dog collar on you neck, along with an attached leash, defining precisely where it is you might go, and be jerked around once in a while just to let you know who’s really boss.”
I don’t want to be the boss. I will follow the rationally allocated spectrum rules of the FCC [the law], because the alternative is anarchy. Which is what you would prefer. I CHOOSE to follow it. The whole discussion started with me slamming some folks [including your esteemed self] for 1. knowing nothing about the law and the situation, and 2. the same folks whining about the DOD using it’s legally allocated bandwidth.
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!â€
Samuel Adams
Again, I could not agree more. The quote has absolutely nothing to do with the argument at hand or with anything I have said, however.
SimonGodot
Feb 11, 2007
All right then boys, enough of that, let’s get back to the topic at hand.
In the past few weeks, whilst you 3 (4?) have been arguing over anarchy and who is and isn’t a prick an interesting thing happened…
My garage door and all my neighbors garage doors have started functioning normally again.
It brings up a very important TACTICAL question.
If I am the enemy AND I don’t know what your saying, but I know EXACTLY WHEN you are saying it, have you lost some of your tactical advantage.
My garage door won’t open?!? I wonder what their up to now???
Just an on topic thought that crossed my mind.
Simon
p.s. you guys need to go get some beers together…
Highlander
Feb 11, 2007
Simon,
I will suppose that a piece of knowledge is one thing, but associating it correctly to a result is another thing altogether.
Perhaps the radio signal was in the testing stages, and they’ve either shut it down for now, or it’s being maintained/modified in the interim?
And then there’s that other possibility: They are afraid that it being on for too long will allow someone – or group of them – to evaluate the signal/s, and determine more than just technical specifications.
As Mr. Spock once remarked, “Military secrets are the most fleeting of all.”
Radio Manager [DOD]
Feb 11, 2007
When you first bring up a new trunking radio system, the normal procedure is to put one of the channels in a test mode broadcasting a test signal at full power. Then you can drive around with test equipment establishing your system’s coverage footprint. This might be what happened here – no conspiracy required. Another possibility is that they have noted the garage door problems and either 1. got a new freq assignment further from 390 MHz to try and help you out, or 2. switched to a different channel to use as a control channel, again a frequency further from 390.
No secrets here, just a regular commercial off the shelf trunking radio system, only in the military band, instead of 800 or 900 MHz like they use in town. The secret you can’t get is the encryption keys. Any reasonable person will recognize the need for secure communication for any security force, whether it be military, or you local or state police. Everything else you can get off the air with a trunking scanner. Feel free to scan and listen to the encrypted comms, which will sound like white noise.
Tit-For-Tat
Feb 11, 2007
To:
DOD Prick
I’ll drop the “wop” for the moment based on the possibility that you might be telling the truth about your ancestry. The “Prick” still stands. I do however have some doubts about you having any balls.
You: “I pay my taxes and obey laws when it suits me – which is 99% of the time.”
I can only presume that the other 1% is pure anarchy.
You: “Why are you bringing race into this? Everyone take a note – he brought race into it; I didn’t. The reason is because I am race-blind. He, obviously, is not. I don’t care why he’s that way – I’m not, because that is wrong.”
A person who feels free can bring anything into the subject, but, on the other hand an individual who is running scared goes with the flow. To go with the flow is definitely the safer thing to do. To go with the flow one has to express how color blind or race blind they are. They see the rainbow as all one color. Going with the flow makes them say that another’s expression about race, good or bad, “is wrong.” Going with the flow is a cowardly effort pushing political correctness.
“You: If my wife wanted to screw someone while I was at work, whatever the race, I’m having a hard time reasoning what that would have to do with UHF interference with garage door openers. ummm. WTF?”
If you can’t understand it, then, perhaps you should ask your wife. On the other hand, maybe you shouldn’t ask, just go with the flow! You truly excel doing that.
You: “Yes I have. I’ve done that on a not-to-interfere basis. Call it expedient civil disobedience. Again, what does this have to do with the discussion topic?”
The law doesn’t excuse any kind civil disobedience! You can label it as “expedient” or whatever but in truth you’ve admitted to being an anarchist! That truly does make you a hypocrite Mr. Dod Prick! Maybe that 1% was an improvement in your conscious behavior.
You: “I control myself and I morally refuse to control others. If that makes me a control freak, so be it.”
That statement attempts to reverse all the controlling baloney you’ve been posting. It fails miserably. Race blind, politically correct Control freaks like yourself are usually sexually disoriented and have few morals, only questionable goals.
Have a nice day Mr. Dod Prick!
Tit-For-Tat
Feb 11, 2007
To: SimonGodot
Hi Simon
You would have an tactical advantage only if the transmission originated at the time, and only at the time a genuine message was being sent or an event was taking place.
Example: US Navy ships at sea continually transmit garbage in crypto. When a real message is sent it too will be in crypto and you can’t tell the difference. So, as far as the enemy is concerned, there’s no increase/decrease in radio traffic.
T forT
SimonGodot
Feb 11, 2007
Gentlemen,
Thank you for your comments and assistance with my overly mundane problem.
Since I have a trio of radio experts at my disposal (sort of…) I have yet another question regarding interference.
I have a local pirate radio station somewhere in my vicinity. The station currently transmits Virgin Radio from the UK website of the formally empty frequency of 87.9 MHz.
I am able to drive around the neighborhoods close to my home and get a fairly good quality of signal, more than enough unfortunately to interfer with my iTrip transmitter in my car.
From my driveway the signal is audible some 2 miles to the north and 4 miles to the west. I can only travel about 1/2 a mile south before I run into the National Forest and I do not have any data for distance to the east.
From my amateur information I believe I am dealing with a transmitter in the 10 to 100 watt range and that I should be looking a 4 foot wide dipole antenna about 35 feet off the ground. The better the signal quality the closer I am to the transmitter.
Are these assumptions correct???
Simon
Highlander
Feb 12, 2007
Simon,
All you need do is cut an antenna (half wave dipole) and triangulate.
Of course, you’ll need an accurate map to delineate where the transmitter might lie, and at least two points separated by about 45degrees on the map.
The more points you can obtain, is usually better.
Then again, if you have a GPS navaide, you could be even more accurate.
Just remember that you should be using a meter (analogue or digital) to measure the peak signal condition when aiming the antenna.
Radio Manager [DOD]
Feb 12, 2007
Call the FCC.
Highlander
Feb 12, 2007
From the back of the room, someone is heard to remark: Screw the FCC!
Relying on government for anything is like calling the police when in need: Call a pizza service, an aid car and the police.
Guess which one will get there first, almost every time?
T For T
Feb 14, 2007
Simon
Highlander has the best idea. I suspect you’ll find a young anarchist about fifteen years old. Might be DOD Pricks son! Ha! Ha!
Radio Manager [DOD]
Feb 14, 2007
And what are you going to do when you find your pirate station? Bust in to thier domicile and take it down?
Michael Hampton
Feb 14, 2007
That, I’m afraid, would be the FCC’s approach.
I’d much rather politely inform them that their transmitter is causing interference, and they might want to fix it before some anti-social jackoff calls the FCC.
Then again, I’m old-fashioned.
Highlander
Feb 14, 2007
Michael,
While this next suggestion might seem overly obvious, wouldn’t it be easier to simply find another blank spot on the dial, and go with that?
I own two different makes of FM transmitters for the iPod, and the selection is easily set …
Why waste time an money playing what amounts to a ‘fox hunt’ (old Ham sport), when a few minutes resetting the iPod would give you more immediate gratification?
Michael Hampton
Feb 14, 2007
Being a good neighbor, of course.
And it wasn’t my iPod FM transmitter thing.
Radio Manager [DOD]
Feb 14, 2007
The FCC warn him once, then would fine the guy so much he’d take it down. If he didn’t they’d send in the cops.
Asking him politely to turn it off, seeing as he’s spent so much time and money on it, would likely have no effect. He doesn’t care if it causes interference – with the pirate station operators, that’s usually part of their agenda.
Oh and Highlander weighs in with some babble about an ipod FM transmitter. No one knows why he’s talking about ipods. I think simon was talking about the pirate station interfering with a licensed station he can’t listen to, because the pirate station is on the same frequency. A perfect illustration of what happens when anarchy reigns on the air waves – nothing works.
Lynford Turner
Feb 14, 2007
Hey Guys
I just finished the best device yet for the garage door! I used an old TV IR sensor circuit and clicker. just click the correct channel and presto! There goes the door! It took a lot of measuring because I don’t have the schematic for the sensor circuit.
Highlander
Feb 14, 2007
Dearest DOD radio manager,
You are most correct in the ASSertion that an iPod wasn’t mentioned before I spoke of it.
HOWEVER, seeing as how the entire thread is available for perusal – by your self – you should, in the future, go read =just what= was remark upon, so that you don’t have to yank feet out of your mouth.
But, I digress, as likely you were born with one firmly implanted therein.
The salient remark was:
Quote:
SimonGodot
February 11, 2007 8:48 pm | Link
Gentlemen,
Thank you for your comments and assistance with my overly mundane problem.
Since I have a trio of radio experts at my disposal (sort of…) I have yet another question regarding interference.
I have a local pirate radio station somewhere in my vicinity. The station currently transmits Virgin Radio from the UK website of the formally empty frequency of 87.9 MHz.
I am able to drive around the neighborhoods close to my home and get a fairly good quality of signal, more than enough unfortunately to interfer with my iTrip transmitter in my car.
Qnquote.
Now, any respectible dunce would have gone and done a ‘google’ to see just what an iTrip is. But, you didn’t, so you don’t get to be called respectible.
Picture and specs for and iTrip:
Geeeeeeeee! Ain’t that interesting, and by golly by gee, it is attached to =of all things= an iPod.
I will guess that willful ignorance is why you work for the government?
Highlander
Feb 14, 2007
Lynford,
I like your idea, and I’ve given it some of my own thinking over the years.
What you need to consider is to have =at least= two levels of security.
One idea I’d been mulling over was to attach an inexpensive laptop to the interface of the opener.
Here’s the main idea: The hand held controller would have an Eprom installed, which would accept a code from the laptop just before leaving the garage.
That code would only be accessable through the key pad manipulation either before the opening code was entered or afterwards.
Remember: A lock is only as good as the key which opens it.
So basically, what you’d have is the channel you’d enter, and then a multi-key action that would act as the verifier. That would be two pieces of information, and the verifier would change as often as you’d like, giving the added security needed to prevent someone from guessing it.
Taking all of that a step further, you could employ both IR and UV leds with the respective sensors, and maybe even resort to a very low power (
Highlander
Feb 14, 2007
Lynford,
That last post got truncated.
Taking all of that a step further, you could employ both IR and UV leds with the respective sensors, and maybe even resort to a very low power (less than 100mw) RF signal to relay the verifier code.
Heck, you could even modulate the headlight or parking light beams.
The very great object, however, is to effectively disguise or hide the sensors used to detect the transmissions. If someone is looking to gain access to your residence by way of the garage – most people don’t lock the interior door to the garage – they will be looking to see what operates the system.
Now, if you really wanted to get anal over this, you could go with more than two layers of security, but that would also require more programming and more parts in the controller.
SimonGodot
Feb 15, 2007
Clarity
Funny you should mention the FCC, they were the first people I emailed. They sent me a lovely pdf document about locating interference… In my own house, utterly worthless. They have not responded to any subsequent emails.
Yes, iTrip tuned to 87.9MHz for the benefit of listening to my iPod. Totally selfish.
I live in the largest radio market in the world, the Greater Los Angeles area. There is also nothing worth listening to except NPR.
Believe it or not, the only remotely clear station for my iTrip is 87.9 MHz. Every (read this part, really) every other portion of the FM dial contains a licensed station or bleed from a licensed transmitter on top of Mount Wilson.
Did I mention that I can see Mount Wilson ( ^ ) from my backyard.
What am I going to do when I find the house responsible for the pirate transmission?
1. Call local city code enforcement
2. Call the County Supervisors Office
3. Write the Attorney General for the State of California
4. Call, email and generally pester the Federal Communications Commission aka the dreaded FCC.
5. I am not going to commit any acts of vandalism. Really want to, but no.
I seriously doubt any 15 year old in my neighborhood would be caught dead transmitting 80′s rock (read Boy George and Wham) from a station that gives traffic reports for the UK. More than likely it is some poor sod who got transferred to bloody California by boss who thought he was doing the poor bastard a favor.
If I can give the authorities, any authorities, information leading to the demise of this station I will. I do not give a rats ass to any other cause than my own in this matter. The law reads rather emphatically in my favor. Should the FCC become my savior… Woo Hoo!!! They will still not make my Christmas list, but I will be a happy camper.
No my car does not have a cassette deck or iPod adadpter built in, it does however have a 5-star rating for all crash tests.
To Highlander: Thank you for a technical answer to my question, a pricy answer eq wise, but a good one.
Highlander
Feb 15, 2007
Simon,
You situation requires a rather unique solution.
I don’t know how you feel about using headphones, and how much you’d care to expend in that direction.
I live north of you, in the great state of Washington.
We don’t have the same problem of saturated bandwidth in FM region.
However, let me say that a bit ago, I had to travel 100 miles a day (50 miles one-way) for work.
Most of the time, because of the weather, I resorted to riding my motorcycle. That, in itself, is a noisy environment, so sound attenuation is a necessity.
Now, there are headphones made to be installed in a helmet and I have those, in order to communicate via CB, or even to use a properly fitted cell phone.
But, those really lack a degree of fidelity, and are not what you’d want anyway.
While attending college for an IT/IS degree, a fellow student showed me a pair of Shure E5C headphones, and he swore by them. They ARE a bit spendy, but the price is well worth it. Do a Google.
I bought a set, and I swear by them too.
They come with several earplug sizes, and two different styles.
One of those is a tripple-flange that is noise cancelling.
An added benefit is that – when you are wearing them – they look almost exactly like hearing aides. That helps immeasureably when cops give you the once-over when passing you by.
In most states, wearing earbuds is a no-no. Why, I have no idea, as most stereo systems in automobiles are able to =EASILY= overwhelm the auditory senses of just any human.
In any case, the E5Cs don’t entirely knock down all external sounds, and if you play your music at a reasonable level, you’ll still be able to hear the road noise, and other things you need to be aware of.
Once again: Choose the path of least resistance to attain your goal of music on the road!
Attempting to shutdown the pirate, will likely result in yet another station taking over the slot, and you’ll be right back to where you started, when you could well have been ahead of the game.
And finally, there’s this bit of wisdom – which no doubt you’ve read/heard before:
Oh Lord, give me the ability to change what I can, the ability to leave alone what I can’t, & the wisdom to hide the bodies so no one finds me.
Lynford Turner
Feb 15, 2007
Simon
So you live in the LA area eh? I moved from Tustin, Ca. about three and a half years ago to the great state of Misery, er, Missouri. I’d been in California for about 51 years.
Yes I know about the FCC response to a call about RF interference. I experienced the same baloney that you got. My problem turned out to be coming from two different sources, the police station two blocks away and the marine helicopter pad at the former base located in Tustin. In both cases the interference was trashing my TV and I had cable too!
Several years ago I drove over to a business called Adams Crystals located in LA. Seems to me that it was located on La Brea Ave. While looking throughout the store for surplus goodies I walked upstairs to explore around. I heard somebody talking ham radio talk so I waited until they were finished and then I entered the little closet where the person was. Inside was a young Mexican fellow, he looked at me as though he’d been caught doing something wrong. I immediately sensed his fear and guessed what he was doing. I asked if he was a ham operator. His answer was no. In a sneaky manner he disclosed that he’d just finished building the transmitter and was trying it out. He asked, you won’t tell the boss downstairs will you? He was the clean-up boy, about 15, maybe 16. That was about 1960. I explained to him that the FCC might burn his butt if he got caught, and I didn’t report him either. I suspect that he knew far more than most of the modern day so called ham operators.
Most young folks, including DOD Prick, do their first illegal transmissions in the early teens. I can speak with some experience. I had many friends who did likewise.
I built my first Citizens Band radio in 1955. {Vacuum Tubes}The output was exactly on spec. I loaded the output with a dummy antenna and tested it out. I found that a leaky signal got past me and was detectable for about 200 feet. I was 22 years old at the time and fearful as hell of the feds in any department. While testing I put my cousin at the front door to watch for any official looking vehicles coming down my street.
Now that’s the way the feds like the good citizens to be, scared shitless to of doing anything wrong.
There really should be rules in certain areas but, the rule makers always get carried away and sell us out.
Highlander
Feb 15, 2007
Lynford,
Good quote to keep in mind:
When the people fear the government you have tyranny; when the government fears the people, you have liberty.
Thomas Jefferson.
Lynford
Feb 15, 2007
Highlander
I like the quote. It’s about time the fear is reversed.
Your suggestion for the enter-lock is very good. Right now I’m building a house and that’s taking a lot of my time. I’ve added some ideas to your scheme which would make activation by somebody else impossible. Of course I tend to get rather carried away sometimes because of my past experience in crypto.
The idea is to send out a signal to the operator that you want the door to open. That signal never changes. On receiving the signal the operators transmitter sends back a coded series of data that simply tells your hand piece what sequence will be accepted to open the door. And for that one time only the sequence will be thus. The hand piece can then automatically send back the correct code based on that one time only code it received from the operators transmitter. Of course that requires a radio/transmitter in the hand piece.
The transmitter in the operator would have an input from a running crypto circuit that is constantly changing the code to be transmitted when it receives a signal from the hand piece. On receiving the the signal the circuit freezes until the code is deciphered by the hand piece and it returns the expected code to open the door. Of course the circuit is then reset and continues to run freely spinning out millions of possible combinations while waiting for the next signal from the hand piece. And, the really neat thing about this is that it can all be done in the super audio spectrum using only one of my little coils of wire for radiation and detection. OR, using super audio only for communication for the first part and perhaps my TV IR for the final transmission.
The idea of using super audio eliminates kinky large footprints for all the circuitry in the hand piece. Sounds like a great project for the future when I get through building the house. If you really want to get far out you could let the transmitters/receivers handshake for about five seconds before finally opening the door. That would leave a series of approved codes a mile long just to open a garage door.
Back in the sixties I built hundreds of tranmitters and sold them to people who were having trouble with their 27mc radios. This was a garage operation. In those days we were operating between 212mc-310mc area. {Yeah! I know DOD Jerk, but it favored Part 15 and radiation was below 100mw.} I came up with what I beleive was the first one in 1960. I used the only transistor available at that time to get a genuine 100mw out. It was an Amperex PADT28. They later changed the call out but it was the same transistor. I still have some in my goodies boxes. The transmitter had only one audio frequency. I used a Miller 6416 slug core coil, I think that was the number, actually a TV width coil if I truly remember. You adjust the core from 14-36 kc with only two caps across the coil. The caps were in series and one had a shorting bar across it. To get the higher audio freqs you’d just cut the short.
Folks were dang happy to get it and they didn’t give trouble for many years. Of course crime wasn’t as rampant in those days either.
Highlander
Feb 15, 2007
Lynford,
Sounds like you’ve got theme all worked out.
I like your thinking regarding the use of ultrasonic frequencies, as employing anything lower would probably be picked up someone’s sound system. And besides, the higher frequencies afford smaller components.
And regarding the main controller? I would shy away from allowing it to transmit anything, as the more you ‘put out there’ for others to detect, the greater the possibility it will be figured out.
Of course, on the other hand, you might use it to transmit nonsense that relates in no way to the actual operation of the devices. Think: Red herring, or wild goose chase.
To keep the expense to a bare minimum, I’d likely modify a hand controller to accept a series of daily codes, such that when a code is used, it is discarded by both the handheld and door controller. That way, if you have to travel back and forth to your abode several times a day, you won’t have to ‘reload’ each time.
For maximum security, the code download to the the handheld would be via a physical connection, or via IR – at the controller computer itself.
Lynford
Feb 15, 2007
Highlander
I like the idea of IR download whether it be for one day or on an individual use basis or for what I described above.
When you think about it, that is just building one for yourself, there’s not much chance of anybody opening the door if you’re the only one with a preprogrammed deciphering unit. Golly, you could program an esquared prom for both the operator transmitter/radio and the hand held at the same time and not have to do that again for years and never use the same code twice. Of course programming on a daily basis would be safer.
Highlander
Feb 15, 2007
Lynford,
Good points all around.
However …
What with computer hackers (the bad kind) seeking to access every machine they might – and very often succeeding – one should not make any assumption regarding who else might not possess sufficient knowledge of the design of one’s security system.
Remember: If you can think about it, likely someone else has also.
When I consider security systems (I possess a fair level of knowlege of the field), the thing I think of most is: WHAT IF?
I will hand it to you that you’re likely correct in that no one else in your vicinity – today – would possess the knowledge of your final design.
But, consider the others that read our words here.
Technology doesn’t stand still, and you already knew that.
Spectrum analyzers (of whatever sort) and data analyzers are becoming rather inexpensive on the second hand market. Go check ebay for good examples!
When you and I were kids, the simplest of test equipment cost darned near an arm and a leg. I still have an old Archer vacuum tube based VOM, from back in the early 1960′s, and a Heathkit spectrum analyzer (built from a kit – 1965), both of which I worked months to save up for!
Today, those items are considered useless junk – but they still work.
I mention this for the reason that there are some really smart, really savvy, and really crooked kids on the block these days. Nothing pleases them more than to get over on other people. I don’t know why that is, as such a psychology certainly didn’t exist when I was a kid, at least not where I grew up.
And finally, I also understand that if someone really =really= wants access to your house bad enough, a garage door won’t even stop them.
Bottom line: The happy medium is to make the lock as ‘unpickable’ as possible.
Lynford
Feb 16, 2007
Highlander
I agree with your comments on how rotten some of the folks are these days. Of course modern equipment makes things very convenient for those dudes. It’s a big laugh to them to steal and sell for a few nickels what somebody has put many hours of work into buying for themselves. Another type of thief is the one who says he has more use for whatever he steals than the previous owner did. Therefore he feels justified in taking it.
The last spectrum analyzer I used was an HP, don’t remember the model, but it wa a very good one. I was on the job of course in Irvine, California. Thats more than twenty five years ago.
I’ve got some fair pieces of equipment, old, but they work. Nothing in the high frequency area though.
Actually, if somebody opened my garage door in any manner they’d find a tractor, some garden tools and my old Yamaha bike. That’s because it’s in a barn. All insured of course.
Iv’e also got a modern video alarm system with several cameras in hidden places. Much better than a dog barking all the time. When the alarm goes off the recorder starts to record. It works well both day and night. I never have an unannounced guest.
One thing about people like us is that we work with electronics because we like it. And when we are no longer employed we still like to tinker, that’s me.
Wife is calling me to dinner
Highlander
Feb 16, 2007
Lynford,
Quote:
“The last spectrum analyzer I used was an HP, don’t remember the model, but it wa a very good one. I was on the job of course in Irvine, California. Thats more than twenty five years ago.”
Unquote.
That likely was a Model 141T.
See this:
When I was in the USN, I worked in Metrology/Calibration. That was the very best field to be in, because you got to work on everything instead of specializing on just one or two systems. Heck, I even repaired the occasional optical borescope, and several night vision devices!
I can’t begin to tell you how many spectrum analyzers – of whatever make and model – I repaired and calbrated.
The very first one I got to work on was an SA80, and it was heavy enough that it required two men to move it, and even then it was difficult.
And yes, cameras! You might be advised though that there are detectors out there, and one of the best is this:
There is a philosophy regarding having both visible and hidden cameras, versus just one or the other. What you can’t see, you can’t know about; what you can see makes you aware. Most burglars are petty people, and afraid of being caught. Seeing an obvious camera sends them packing.
It’s like having a radio turned on and playing: Is someone home, or not? If you can’t see in, then you are blind to the fact.
Now, let me relate to you an incident that happened to me about a year ago.
One day, a car backed into my driveway from the cul-de-sac (this is unusual in itself, as who backs into a 150 foot driveway?), two young men (early 20′s – if that)
got out of the car, and one of them stood by the garage door in plain sight of the front door, while the other went around to the east side of the garage, and upon seeing one of the cameras, spray-painted the window at the farthest (quickly visible) camera and then saw the nearest camera (the one closest to him) and took off running back to the car, whereupon they quickly drove away. They haven’t been back since.
Window cameras should always be placed aiming in the direction of the opposite camera to get a cross field view such that the approach covers both directions and the near field at the same time.
And a decal on window that says ‘This house protected by Smith & Wesson’ doesn’t hurt either!
Any strange vehicle that backs into a driveway is the first telltale sign of something amiss.
Now, I called the cops, but they never came by, and didn’t even want to talk about the video clips from the few cameras that caught their actions.
Apparently, someone entering upon your property and spray painting windows is considered such a paltry offence, that it’s not even worth investigating.
Sometime ago, I purchased a Day-Night surveillance camera that advertised as having IR illumination, however the bugger used 800nm range LEDs, and those are visible. So, I went an found some 700nm range (not visible) LEDs, and swapped them out.
It works even better, as there is all the more IR is being generated where it needs to be, rather than in the visible light spectrum.
Now, all of this really good, but if there is prowler out and about who’s wearing a ski mask, the cameras won’t do much, and alarms that don’t awaken neighbors are less than useless.
I given thought to a project that uses millimeter radiation (close to the range used by airport security to see under clothing) in order to see past the mask. Most of the tech is off-the-shelf stuff.
And then there is the thought of using something in the ultrasonic range …
My particular system used a two-level alert: First an internal warning is generated, with a less than one minute delay before the outside alarms get activated. This delay gives me time reset the alarm, and check out the situation if I’m home.
I’ve had a few false alarms caused by animals, and being woken from a dead sleep is as about as frightening a thing as any! It’s good drill though, for it helps prepare you for the real thing. The first time you get woken, you’re a bundle of nerves shaking almost uncontrollably!
But then the old miltary training kicks in, and you develop an almost automatic protocol of preparation.
Lynford
Feb 16, 2007
Highlander
That’s quite a story about the analyzer. It took a lot of effort but I suppose it’s worth it.
My video system is a different brand, boast a few more goodies than some. It’s been working well now for almost two years. There are several things about our security that I dare not talk about because here on the web and I’ve used my real name, it would defeat most of the system. The video is only the beginning. The cameras are all hidden because they could easily be taken out with a pellet gun if the locations were known. The cameras are expensive for the most part, except for four of them. I have Missouri purple around the place, that’s what you paint certain post or trees here in Missouri and if anybody trespasses and you catch-um they are in for first class misdemeanor. That’s not all, if they do anything that might hurt you or property other things can happen. It depends on what illegal action they do and the severity. Any where you go it’s hard to stay within the law and still protect yourself and your valuables. You simply have to make a decision as to where the fine line is located and follow it carefully no matter what the stress of the moment is. That puts a lot of pressure on you and leaves holes for the bad guy to get away with his bullshit. The fine line in California is finer by far than it is here in Missouri. The fact that we’re not in a town but on a farm like location gives greater advantages over that of a city dweller. We’re not exposed to all the in-town slime. But still I must follow the proceedure laid out by my attorney so I don’t screw up should a bad guy arrive. He empathized that should there be a problem be sure to call 911 before proceeding further.
We have deer, wild turkeys by the dozens here on our place and we treat them all as pets. When they go out on the roads the poachers blow them away. That’s not my problem. I don’t care for it but factually, it’s none of my business.
In the spring and summer the turkeys come up near our dwelling and observe our cats. They stare at them and I suppose wonder what they are. We hear them outside making their sounds, Pert,Pert,Pert. It’s a very mellow but penetrating sound. I think they too would like to be living with us.
Being that this is the country and I get up with the chickens it’s now time for me to hit the sack.
Derf
Feb 23, 2007
Dosnt anyone Know that the garage door freqs you seem to me talking about are allocated in the 160- 190 khz range ?
i.e. .16 – .19 mhz…. these are very long waves ??
Check out long wave club of America.
Just wondering
Derf
Lynford
Mar 03, 2007
Hello Derf
I don’t know what all frequencies are being used today but forty seven years ago I built transmitters and sold them using that freq. range. I think I remember it to be about 160mc to 210mc. I don’t use hertz much because I think the change was stupid. Then of couse I’m an old guy.
Highlander
Mar 03, 2007
Lynford,
If I recall correctly, the change from x-cycles to x-hertz occurred in 1960 in memory of Heinrich Rudolf Hertz, the German physicist who did much research in electromagnetism.
However, I can distinctly recall that while serving on USS Saratoga (CVA-60), back in 1968, that in the Metrology/Calibration field we were still employing the term ‘cycles,’ until a directive was issued to standardize to ‘hertz.’
While much of the world was in the process changing over, we (the USN) were getting new equipment with ID plates specifiying frequency in cycles (megacycles, kilomegacycles, etc.).
And it took a bit before all tech manuals were standardized to the new format.
In any case, I understand your relative resistance, because I too, had been trained to employ the term ‘cycles,’ starting in 1955, and back then every radio was labeled with such on its frequency dial.
With regards to the current frequencies in use, this web site discusses it’s garage door frequency bands;
Lynford
Mar 04, 2007
Highlander
When I take a good look at the future as best I can see it, I have to think that I’m happy to have lived the years I lived.
There are entirely too many changes that don’t represent real progress. When I was young and lived in either St. Louis or Los Angeles I could look down the alley behind whatever house I lived in and see young guys in their garages working on either cars, boats, maybe pin striping something, building radio control planes or tinkering with something electronic.
Today, you don’t see them at all. They’re all couch potatoes.
JCMini30
Jun 23, 2010
I am a police officer. We have a analog radio system that will soon be updated. I have opened electronic gates and garage doors when transmitting on my police radio.
wp
May 28, 2011
i know that in microwave com you can adj freq,by cutting length and is not linnear cuts.deliquet oper. by tec. but what a garage door atena no.there is long range of transmission talk.for instance a coiled atenna for mobile can be clipped to adjust the ratio.
To the person e&w.it seems that shielding from e-w would be the intenerary. as N would effect both e-w by line of site. i have not studied said mentioned garage door opener. but i will and will reply back if necesary. there may not be an easy way to shield for every orientation. as i havent yet given this much thought what so ever.I just read this page today!not to mention no sleep and dont care about grammer at this time and not using an editor. i also havent researched iTrip. but i now if a person was using ham freq band,that they could be running a slinky. which if in conjested neighborhood it would be difficult2detect. unless you have xray.is worth the expence? well that’s up to who ever. food for thought the coiled antena via transisteradio.point in derection of bar n-s. The lmr could be cell\radio or even low band technology. if so would not be problem. think about {space,water}- shore com in laymen terms and a 10mi person-person. one of u men 6mi n. i dont see that a problem.unless pumping a lot of power.why would you for 10mi ra. my quess is on the quarter.there is a unmentionable amount of brands and types new and old.How to acomidate all.only thing right now is shame on you. just like the pc industry.buy hardware then software and so on. there was really no need to bring race,as i could somewhat detect eng ger and color by the way of write.not to mention pyscology so happened peptimist and optimist combatting each other. also not mentioning a few working for the gov one time or another. another mirage to keep people off track.cant blind me.why is it technology seen of today is really techno created 40′s-60′s and so called green from 1850′s.what would u do with a savings of 15’000us over 30years,that is what it could cost u using your device. so called win7 not to get off track but has same problems as xt pc. every thing said and done,it all boils down to $’s.when can the home user ever have the techno., that sould be in a pc! awnser never! It will most likely be kept from u.And has been for years. Still in a shell.i understand about security for the increpid .please dont take this personable,im just blunt .but remember too! security is false security.So dont live by fear but day x day,go out to smell the roses once in awile. Its not neccesary to get mad about anothers comments.and really just causes things to get off track.i’m not sure if that was intentional or not.As to the mention of kissass i have no use for persons like that.And they are really useless.I experienced people like that.For example they couldn’t TS a device.but yet have there bosses believing in them. In turn they brought the device to me and i found s-grnd.the device would actually work as long as it was not connected in actual circuit 2 grnd.So that’s why i believe the way i do.i was trained in hertz but picked up the kc the persons talked about in this article.i usually like doing research before i talk.Excuse me but i to got cought up in the rederick. I’m not apology. I stick to my guns per say.if i’m right i’m right and if not i say so.but not necesarily all the time to say so.there is more things to say but not before doing alot of research.I stongly believe that a device shows a problem and works.It is more likely to fail again then not. So lets find the bugger.i would put somewhat more trust for people in the vacume tube age, and find that they have more knowlege then people of to day.mostly because people of today relie on pc’s to much for there brains.Secoundly my generation was caught in the middle so called changes,not good.save the changes for people that use it every hour.over engineering really saving things.KISS! i find new is not necesarily energy efficient. for example a old analog\mechanical vrs. {digital\electronics uses more amp}.The more u put in the more that goes wrong. Can our nation really afford this on the path were going.is this rome all over again.pretty close.I’ve worked closely with u s a Ceo’s & listened to major share holders.I could name 1/2-dozen corps or what ever having china do production.If u can build it, u have the tecnology.dont listen to the statement (china is stilling our technology it is false). Your own country persons are doing it at least the 70′s or before trying.just slave labor.Remember the reporter that was Xed from wall street. Watch out for distributors buy from them and put are nation out of work.It may be some day we will need our museums to get us back working as a nation under good.