The Great Depression will look like a small blip compared to the economic collapse the United States is about to suffer, according to several experts. But Congress refuses to listen and do what’s necessary to stave off disaster.
Worse, Congress has been warned year after year since at least 1992, and perhaps before that.
“The federal budget is structurally unbalanced. This will do increasing damage to the economy and is unsustainable in the long term. Regardless of the approach chosen, prompt and meaningful action is essential. The longer it is delayed, the more painful it will be.”
Those were the words of the General Accounting Office (now the Government Accountability Office) 15 years ago. Reporting on the long-term fiscal outlook of the federal government, GAO reported then (PDF) that Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security would grow out of control and that “the path of ‘no action’ is unsustainable.”
It also warned that “a major effort to strengthen the economy must be completed by 2010,” when the Baby Boomers will begin retiring.
We all know what happened in the intervening 15 years: absolutely nothing good. The entitlement programs are still here, larger than ever, and draining ever larger percentages of the national economy.
Last month, GAO reported again to Congress on the nation’s long-term fiscal outlook. It’s only gotten worse.
“GAO’s current long-term simulations continue to show ever-larger deficits resulting in a federal debt burden that ultimately spirals out of control,” GAO reported (PDF). Even under the best-case scenario GAO studied, “the risks to the Nation’s future financial condition are too high to be acceptable.”
And again, the problem is government entitlement programs — and Social Security, bad as it is, isn’t even the biggest one.
In the succeeding 2 decades America’s population will age dramatically, and relatively fewer workers will be asked to support ever larger costs for retirees. . . .
Although Social Security is a major part of the fiscal challenge, it is far from our biggest challenge. Spending on the major federal health programs (i.e., Medicare and Medicaid) represents a much larger and faster growing problem. In fact, the federal government’s obligations for Medicare Part D alone exceed the unfunded obligations for Social Security. Over the past several decades, health care spending on average has grown much faster than the economy, absorbing increasing shares of the Nation’s resources, and this rapid growth is projected to continue. For this reason and others, rising health care costs pose a fiscal challenge not just to the federal budget but to American business and our society as a whole. — Government Accountability Office
Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke last week also warned Congress, but of course, most of them refused to listen or even acknowledge that the problem exists.
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke could not have sounded the alarm any clearer if he had carried a bullhorn and a gong. “This expansion of debt would spark a fiscal crisis. . . . The U.S. economy could be seriously weakened. . . . This is sort of like a snowball rolling down the hill. . . . This can really get out of control.”
Other lawmakers struggled to wrap their arms around the crisis Bernanke was describing. “We’re just, kind of, whistling past the graveyard?” asked Rep. Marion Berry (D-Ark).
“Yes, sir,” said the chairman.
“And hoping that the tooth fairy comes and bails us out of this deal?”
“I don’t know about the metaphors there, Mr. Congressman,” Bernanke replied.
Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-Tex.) had a different metaphor to run by the chairman. He asked if “we are debating how to mop up six inches of water in the stateroom of the captain of the Titanic when we should be focused upon the gaping hole in the hull of the ship.”
“The heart of the problem are the entitlement programs,” Bernanke affirmed. — Washington Post
“Federal deficits will grow to unsustainable levels in as little as two decades,” says David M. Walker, the comptroller general of the United States, “At that point, without significant policy changes, federal deficits could reach 10% or more of our economy.”
As head of the GAO, it’s Walker’s responsibility to sound the alarm. Not at all satisfied with Congress refusing to listen, he’s taken his message directly to the people, appearing on CBS News’ 60 Minutes television program on Sunday, and touring the U.S. “We are the world’s largest debtor nation, and time is working against us,” Walker said in an article for The Futurist magazine.
Indeed, the American welfare state is growing out of control, with tens of millions of Americans receiving some form of government handout.
The number of families receiving cash benefits from welfare has plummeted since the government imposed time limits on the payments a decade ago. But other programs for the poor, including Medicaid, food stamps and disability benefits, are bursting with new enrollees.
The result, according to an Associated Press analysis: Nearly one in six people rely on some form of public assistance, a larger share than at any time since the government started measuring two decades ago. — Associated Press
“This story only looks at the welfare state for the poor,” writes Cato Institute vice president David Boaz. “Far more than one in six Americans are dependent on such government programs as Social Security, Medicare, unemployment compensation, and so on. . . . And how long can a nation remain free if half its citizens are dependent on government hand-outs?”
Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas), who is running for President in 2008, also sounded the alarm.
When it comes to Social Security and Medicare, the federal government simply won’t be able to keep its promises in the future. That is the reality every American should get used to, despite the grand promises of Washington reformers. Our entitlement system can’t be reformed — it’s too late. . . .
The politicians who get reelected by passing such incredibly shortsighted legislation will never have to answer to future generations saddled with huge federal deficits. Those generations are the real victims, as they cannot object to the debts being incurred today in their names.
The official national debt figure, now approaching $9 trillion, reflects only what the federal government owes in current debts on money already borrowed. It does not reflect what the federal government has promised to pay millions of Americans in entitlement benefits down the road. Those future obligations put our real debt figure at roughly fifty trillion dollars — a staggering sum that is about as large as the total household net worth of the entire United States. Your share of this fifty trillion amounts to about $175,000.
Don’t believe for a second that we can grow our way out of the problem through a prosperous economy that yields higher future tax revenues. If present trends continue, by 2040 the entire federal budget will be consumed by Social Security and Medicare alone. The only options for balancing the budget would be cutting total federal spending by about 60%, or doubling federal taxes. To close the long-term entitlement gap, the U.S. economy would have to grow by double digits every year for the next 75 years.
The answer to these critical financial realities is simple, but not easy: We must rethink the very role of government in our society. Anything less, any tinkering or “reform,” won’t cut it. — Rep. Ron Paul
In summary, the welfare state that the socialists built here from the 1930s (after they destroyed the money supply and created an artificial depression) is going to do the same thing it did when they built it in the Soviet Union. And if their example is any guide, it won’t take until 2040 for the nation’s economy to collapse utterly. It will be sudden and unexpected. It will be horrific. Millions of Americans will die, never knowing what happened. But if you’ve read this far, you will know why: In a word, socialism.
Socialism sounds good, because it plays on the emotions, not because it’s good fiscal policy. It’s terrible fiscal policy. For that matter, it’s also terribly damaging — psychologically and financially — to those who it ostensibly would help.
Maybe this time around, we will actually remember the lesson. Maybe this time around, we’ll remember what real money is, and reject the worthless paper our overlords have given us in its place. Maybe this time around, when millions of Americans are starving in tents, we will look not to government for a “solution” which makes economic slaves of us all, but where we should have looked in the first place: our neighbors, our communities and within ourselves.
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Larz
Mar 08, 2007
Well put! Now how do we get around the tendency of democracy to focus on the seen, immediate consequences and ignore the unseen, future result? 19th century French economist Bastiat describes this tendency best It should be required reading for any advocate of increased government spending or opponent of small government.
Berto
Mar 08, 2007
Good write-up dude. I also fear that bad things are coming, and that when they do, you’re going to see even more social programs.
Atlas Shrugged all over again.
Nigel Watt
Mar 08, 2007
Please digg this. This is important information that nobody wants to think about.
Nigel Watt
Mar 08, 2007
Please digg this. This is important information that nobody wants to think about.
(Sorry about the screwed-up tags above.)
Jeff Hoyt
Mar 08, 2007
Does anybody ever wonder who we owe all this money to? Might it be the same people that set up this whole scenario in the first place? Who in the world has trillions of dollars to lend?
Here’s an idea: let’s tell the Federal Reserve that they can’t produce money out of thin air, then loan it to the government with interest anymore. In fact, let’s find out who owns the (privately owned) Federal Reserve, and give them a free ride to the edge of our continental border, which is, I think, 12 miles offshore.
Mar 08, 2007
BLOGical Thoughts » Thursday, 8 March, 2007
Lord Metroid
Mar 08, 2007
To answer your question partially… China has borrowed a Trillion dollars to United States. For the rest of the loans, I don’t know who it is that provides.
James Pyrich
Mar 08, 2007
Boosh. Heh heh.
Anybody know how to cook up insulin?
James Pyrich
Mar 08, 2007
(not for me; for my girlfriend)
James Pyrich
Mar 08, 2007
Anyway, I hope I can get out of debt and amass some security in time.
Javarod
Mar 08, 2007
Unless you plan on investing in gold, diamonds or other precious objects, you’ll never be out of debt since US currency is basically worth whatever the majority decides it is, and the greater our debt, the lower that is.
While I don’t agree that the depression was manufactured, I do agree that our currency should be based on gold, silver or another similar standard, money shouldn’t be issued without something to back it up. Ever see one of the old silver certificates? I had a silver certificate dollar at one time, right on it it said that you could exchange it for $1 worth of silver from the government at any time you desired. Now that’s a real currency.
Michael Hampton
Mar 08, 2007
The Federal Reserve artificially took money out of circulation, which started the Depression. Then Roosevelt confiscated everyone’s gold, which ensured that it would go on for many more years. These are historical facts; there’s nothing to disagree with.
As for myself, I completely forgot to mention, we do have value-backed currency now.
CitizenX
Mar 08, 2007
Great article.
Here’s a link to who own’s the national debt: . Suprise, suprise, the Federal Reserve owns a lot of it. Part of the way the Federal Reserve creates money is by buying government bonds. Of course, this has an inflationary effect as the Federal Reserve creates the money out of nothing and buys the bond, thus giving the federal government “cash” and increasing the volume of money.
Also, before the Great Depression, the Federal Reserve increased the supply of money in the U.S. People were encouraged to invest in the stock market by loans so they could “buy on the margain,” meaning they could buy, for example, $100 in stock for $10. The stock was used as collateral. Many of these loans had a “24 hour call,” meaning the banks could call the loan and had to be paid the full amount (in our example $100) within 24 hours. All of this caused stock prices to be greatly inflated. In an effort to “cool” the market, the Fed tightened the money supply. The brokerage houses and banks then called their loans causing people to sell their stocks in a panic. The stock market plunged in The Great Stock Market Crash of 1929. As Michael rightly points out, monetary policy caused this and led to The Great Depression.
TJ
Mar 08, 2007
Perfect example of blaming the victim.
The Feds spent the monies forcibly collected from paychecks based on pie-in-the-sky. Many did everything they could to poison the system. Now they’re trying to duck their responsibility.
“Socialism” is not the problem; theft is the problem. Tar and feathers is the antidote.
CitizenX
Mar 08, 2007
Sorry. Here’s the link.
Michael Hampton
Mar 08, 2007
Socialism, as it was implemented here in the U.S., is theft. And so much more.
Anonymous
Mar 09, 2007
I can remember when I was in grade school that we would have drills where we would slide under our desk put our head between our legs and wait. The government has us doing this drill today with our economy and we are kissing our a$$ goodbye.
My house budget dictates that I have X number of dollars and owe X number. Somehow I have to balance my economic output to the input. If the government has more going out than coming in then they just make money to accommodate the situation. It is not as black and white as this concept but pretty close.
When the new dollars are created then the power and validity of our dollar deteriorates. It’s kinda like making kool-aid – one packet in a gallon of water makes a nice drink. After you drank half of the cool-aid and then refill the gallon container with water the drink just doesn’t have the quality it did the first time. Our dollar is this kool-aid that has been diluted about a quadrillion times. Worthless!
The dollar was created to be a mobile representative of the precise metal that backed it up. It is hard to carry hundreds of pounds of metal around to the stores so a representative was created in a light mobile representative form know as our dollar bill. The government makes a ton of these dllar bills that are not backed up by any precious metal. One could say that the government has counterfeited our economy into a state on non-existance.
Not much we can do now except pay off your bills, buy and hide gold and silver and just wait. Oh – by the way – ki$$ your retirement goodbye.
Richard Braakman
Mar 09, 2007
I think you’re overlooking the vast military-industrial complex that has been sucking on the federal teat since the second world war. The USA has been maintaining a wartime economy for sixty years now, and the strain is showing. The comparison with the Soviet Union is apt, since it tried to do the same thing. That wasn’t socialism, it was military spending. Europe has socialism and it’s not on the verge of collapse.
Citizen X
Mar 10, 2007
Richard,
You’re absolutely right. The vast military-industrial complex has had a dramatic impact on out economy. However, social services expenditures still make up the vast bulk of federal spending. The fact is that the politicians in Washington, D.C. have bought votes with promises for services. Because of the monetary policy of the Federal Reserve (creating money out of nothing), the promises they make are virtually unlimited. At some point, though, someone (the American taxpayer) must pay that bill.
By the way, Europe may not be at a state of collapse, but one could hardly describe the economies of the European nations as “vibrant.” You are looking at things as they are, not as how they could be. Socialism discourages innovation and competition. Imagine how much better off these countries would be, how much higher their standards of living would be, if their markets were geared toward thriving instead of just surviving. As time passes, survival will become harder. Same as in America, European politicians are promising more and more entitlements. Who is going to pay for these; especially in a system where success, i.e. making more money or being more productive, is discouraged? Eventually, you have a system in which every one is paid by the system, but no one pays into it. Why should you work if the government is paying all the bills?
Verbos
Mar 10, 2007
The founding fathers predicted all of this. They even tried to give us time to adapt by forbidding usury and surety. [banking and insurance] The bottom line of it all comes down to one thing: Personal Responsibility! Socialism says “Don’t worry, Big Brother will care for you”. Insurance says “Give us your money and your problems are ours”. Banking says “So what if you can’t afford it, enslave yourselves to us an you’ll get it”. How many irresponsible things can you name? If you start naming, you begin to be personally responsible. We now may have no hope for ourselves but think of your progeny.
Veritas
Mar 10, 2007
For a scholarly historical review and analysis of banking in the US from the time of the founding to the present, click onto “Money Masters.com”, a 2 disc DVD, costs $20, well worth the viewing, with an answer that involves neither inflation nor depression nor revolution !!
Andrew
Mar 10, 2007
This discussion overlooks the elephant in the living room. The REAL welfare recipients are the super rich, not the poor. All the problems of insolvency of social security would be immediately erased by recouping the famous tax cuts for the rich. ditto the amount we have indebted ourselves by the “war against terrorism” (a phenomenon the so-called war has multiplied seven fold by latest tally). If the economy collapses it won’t be due to socialism, but due to a deliberate move by the plutocracy to enshrine their own wealth in their ownership of real property, while the hoi polloi (common people) goes down the toilet, world-wide, based on their subservience to the lies (paper money) issued by the plutocrats’ governments. This is no longer a society of nations or laws. It is a world of super rich running governments by financial influence with NO LOYALTY to any nationality or national identity. They will not be unhappy with the collapse of nations and economies because it will leave them in a position of dominance resembling feudalism, but high tech, not low tech.
Bulldog23A
Mar 11, 2007
I am the head of a household of five. I am very careful to only use the credit that I absolutely must, such as buying our home. I make sure every month that I add to my cash reserve, and I do not invest in anything that depreciates immediately (like a new car). If I can’t afford it, I don’t need it. I plan to send my children to college, so I save money for that purpose. These practices are not unusual at my income level, and are probably fairly common across the nation. I will gladly give up the money that I have paid in to SS and Medicaire if it means that my kids don’t have to live in a third-world environment in the future.
Why don’t they put someone like me in charge of the money?
Dawn Marie
Mar 11, 2007
What is going to happen when the United State suffers another Economic Collapse like in the 1930′s? Will everyone become homeless or will the ecconmy be so bad that the government, and the bankers won’t take our homes away?
Jeff Hoyt
Mar 11, 2007
Bulldog23A,
In explaining how you handle your money you have answered your own question. Your character and integrity allow no room for a desire to enslave others. In the minds of those who own the Federal Reserve Bank, the IMF, et.al., this is a fatal flaw. These are, at least in part, the super rich that Andrew is talking about. His point about running governments through financial interest is dead on the money.
While I agree with Veritas that a revolution shouldn’t be necessary, I think it’s plain that the only appropriate justice for international bankers is public execution, after we tear up the IOU’s.
Dawn Marie, you sound genuinely concerned, and there is plenty of help available on the ‘Net for people who want to learn. Your question, though, is difficult to understand as phrased. Give it another shot.
Verbos
Mar 11, 2007
@Dawn Marie
The Government and Bankers don’t see you as a person, just a statistic. They don’t report bad statistics and act as though they don’t exist.
Andrew
Mar 11, 2007
Personally, I don’t advocate executing anyone, bankers or not. I don’t believe violence is the answer.
What is called for is a shift in mythology.
What happened in the Western world is that the appeal of a savior lost its draw for two reasons. First, technology made life less miserable and more comfortable than pre-technology. Second, the logical progression of thinking that led from superstition to science also led to the deconstruction of religious mythology, such that existentialism could say, “God is dead”, without logical challenge. The new religion that emerged was that of science. However, the subtext is that the deeper “religion” that emerged to fill the vacuum of the emotions was the worship of money.
If this travesty is to be transcended we must promulgate the mythology of spiritual value that rests not on dogma, icons or frozen legends, but on the alive awareness that we are all one being, responsible to our collective self. We are now unconsciously creating exactly the world we want. If we think we want something else we need to become more conscious, to collectively and individually own that we are The Creator so that we can deliberately set about realizing that positive harmony which we hold as most delightful.
Until we get conscious about this and let ourselves be gripped by the beautiful possibilities emotionally, all we’ll do is struggle, bicker and fight over who gets to have money and power and who doesn’t. Meanwhile society and the ecosphere will progressively deteriorate, to our regret.
So, don’t sigh, don’t blame, don’t despair. Recognize yourself for who you are: the one being. Each wave on the ocean is the ocean. Each leaf on the tree is the tree. You are the one, as are we all. We must become conscious and take full responsibility to co-create deliberately, not evade responsibility by blaming, claiming to be powerless and dodging.
Bulldog23A
Mar 12, 2007
Hey Andrew, lay off the pipe, man.
While I believe that almost everything that you just said is probably the side effect of a psychotropic substance, I will agree that the worship of money in modern times is killing our society. As for international bankers, well, I’m wondering if we could cut them into steaks for the hungry. You know, to kill two birds with one stone.
Verbos
Mar 12, 2007
Sorry, Bulldog, no pipe involved. I’m serious. If we don’t shift our mythology we’ll all witness the progressive downfall of this great potential we have developed to this point.
Yakpsyche
Mar 12, 2007
Ooops. Post number 28 is from Yakpsyche, not Verbos
freestateks
Mar 14, 2007
I’ve wondered the same thing as Dawn Marie and know exactly what she is asking.
Will moral absolution for our fiscal folly be extended to us from the creditors in the event of Depression Katrina?
The answer is fraught with heartless, cold blooded greed… you know, the stuff that makes the world go ’round. We all saw it. Slidell, LA.
the ponzi scheme of international finance depends on us having the physical might to appropriate other nations’ valuable resources and property, enslave other nations’ populations, and eliminate those who don’t play ball. We’re doing an excellent job of all three.
Historically, empires crumble into dust. but this bunch believe they are free from the laws of physics, rule of law, and God’s Commandments. They may get what they deserve during their lifetime, or later in hell, but we will pay the price, either way.
To the elites, we are bugs needing a crushing. Or donkeys on Pleasure Island whining about having to pay with our life for the fun we’ve been allowed to have. There’s no free lunch,or as the song goes, There IS no Arizona.
freeks
Mar 14, 2007
Sorry but the ref made to an alternate currency, eg the “Liberty Dollar”, is pure bullshit. ANy sucker that falls for that scam, call me, i have ice in newfoundland to sell you.
freeks
Mar 14, 2007
Reagan proved deficits don’t matter. Nuff’ said.
Brit
Mar 17, 2007
I want everyone to stop and think!!! Social programs are growing because the cost of everything is too high. Now why is it too high? Hard goods must be shipped. What is utilized in shipping. You guessed it FUEL. Where, other than the coal fields does that come from. Middle Eastern oil provides the bulk of our oil, and also Venezuela, which is governed by that not so friendly man Hugo Chavez. How much profit did EXXON make last year, and this year so far??? That elevates the price of food, and fuel with which to heat,which are the necessities of life, and other optional commodities. And of course the fuel to drive the gas guzzling SUV’s the upwardly mobile class like so much, and therefore applications for food stamps have gone up and so have applications for fuel assistance. I would add that a recent article that I read I believe in AARP, (I’m retired)stated that gas guzzling SUV’s are making food for the poorest of people unaffordable. Unfortunately, the US has its share of narcissistic people who have to have everything and the best and most expensive. You all better get used to doing without because that attitude is plunging this country into a fiscal downward spiral. I also would draw to everyone’s attention that Mexico is unable to produce the amount of oil that they once did. Norway is unable to produce the amount of oil that they did. Everyone is falling behind because the demand is greater than the produceable supply.> That leaves the other social programs, Medicare and Medicaid. I might also bring to everyone’s attention that people pay for there Medicare throughout there working life – the same as they pay for Social Security. So, Medicaid is the last sticking point. Medicaid is designed for people with no insurance, that are very low income, and I do mean very low income. It is actually better to provide some medical treatment through this program because if we didn’t hospital emergency rooms would be stretched to the breaking point. They actually are in some parts of the country where illegal immigrants go in for free treatment and occupy the emergency rooms which are supposed to be just for emergencies. When this happens, hospitals close because they cannot pull in enough income to support their doctors and staff and equipment, because there is no one to pay them for the treatment that they supply. That would mean that all you working and professional people out there might find out suddenly that you don’t have a hospital near you. Remember that magic hour after a medical crises. I guess I have said enough, but when costs drive prices out of sight, don’t just blame the social programs for their increase. Use your head! Think about it. And if you don’t like high prices, get a backbone, tighten your belt and prices will come down. But most people just keep on spending because they have to have THINGS. Just like a drug addict needs a fix.
As far as who we owe our debt to well, China buys most of our debt in the form of bonds, and Japan I believe is second, and Saudi Arabia, third. And, if we hadn’t meddled in a country where since 650 AD, Sunni’s and Shiites have been killing each other (except for the time when Saddam Hussein was President of Iraq)we wouldn’t be in such a financial mess. Remember the Treasury Secretary who told G. Bush what this war would cost, and Bush wouldn’t hear of it, so he fired him!!! Well, everyone out there better pray that we get out of Iraq soon, or the United States as we know it will no longer exist. Read your history of the Roman Empire. Frittered away all their treasure conquering countries until all the treasure was gone-does that sound familiar.
Jeff Hoyt
Mar 17, 2007
Brit,
In response to some of your points…
Sounding like nothing so much as a grade-school teacher who has resorted
to shouting in an attempt to get his students’ attention, you want us to
stop and think. I have no way of knowing how much time you spend here,
but it shouldn’t take long for you to find such an admonition unnecessary;
many of us have been doing that for awhile now. That’s why we read
blogs like this.
You mention the growth of social programs, allowing increases in fuel
costs as the sole factor for such growth. (I might add that it was
unnecessary to “guess” what you were about to submit as the cause;
your reference to shipping made that obvious) While fuel costs
are a factor, they are only that – a factor. It is
naive to think that such costs, which, when considered as a percentage
of expenditures are about the same as they were in the mid-1980′s,
are the only reason for growth in social programs. Space and time don’t
allow for an in-depth discussion here. Suffice it to say that the
mindless growth in these programs is due primarily to the treasonous
actions of a federal legislative body that refuses to uphold its
collective oath to obey the Constitution, which gives the federal
government authority to do about 12-15% of what it is currently doing,
none of which includes social programs.
You claim that most of our oil comes from the Middle East. This canard
has been told so many times that even normally intelligent people believe
it; kind of like saying Janis Joplin was the first singer to make “Piece of My Heart†famous. Rather than repeating this blather, let’s acknowledge the fact that of the 5
countries from which we import the largest amount of total petroleum
products, only one is in the Middle East – Saudi Arabia. Further, the
total amount of petroleum products imported in January of 2007 from the 4
Middle East countries that made the list of the top 15 importers was
approximately 2.4 million bpd. Compare this, during the same period,
with Canada, at 2.45 mbpd; Mexico, at 1.56 mbpd; Venezuela, at 1.18 mbpd;
and Nigeria, at 1.14 mbpd. Total imports from these and the remaining seven
countries totaled 11.56 mbpd during this period, and these numbers are
typical. It should be plain that 2.4 mbpd does not represent “most” of
11.56 mbpd, so please, put away the whip – the “most-of-our-oil-comes-from-
the-Middle-East” horse is dead.
Exxon’s profit last year? Huge. Exxon’s expenses last year? Huge. Exxon’s
sales last year? Huge. Exxon’s profit margin last year?
About 11%. Decidedly un-huge, and out of all the numbers, it’s the only one that
counts. A degree in economics isn’t a requirement to realize that when a
company sells more of a product in a year than it ever has before, they
will make more of a profit in that year than they ever have before. Who
would have thought that all those Chinese people would switch from bikes
to cars? Give up the oil-company bashing; it makes you sound pedestrian.
Regarding the gas-guzzlers, the correct plural is ‘SUVs ‘; ‘SUV’s ‘ indicates
the possessive. As a personal issue, I believe that most, but not all, of
these vehicles are foolish and wasteful. I own an SUV. It is a 1996, 2-door
Blazer that gets 21 mpg; small, reasonably efficient, and highly maneuverable.
(I find the last trait to be the most important, given the average driving
skills of my fellow citizens.) But, back to the point, this is yet another
whip you need to retire. Gasoline accounts for just 17% of the total energy
consumed in the United States. The small percentage wouldn’t justify waste,
but then, what would? The small percentage does indicate that the problem
isn’t SUVs. Could it be that there is no problem in the first place?
Regarding the AARP article, it is possible that the story actually dealt with
the effect that ethanol production is having on corn prices. Corn being
the staple it is, anything affecting its price will certainly touch on food costs.
You make good points about our society’s consumption habits. That is an
easy point to concede. Let’s be careful to keep it in perspective, though.
That Mexico, Norway, et.al. are not producing oil as they did (which point I am
not endorsing, only referencing) is irrelevant. Waste is never justified -
let that point stand on its own. By the way, as crude oil supplies go, there
is little to be concerned about. Construction in the southwest of Wyoming is
well underway to provide housing and infrastructure for the mining of the Green
River formation. With four times the known reserves of Saudi Arabia, it is quite
capable of providing our petroleum needs until we finally decide to abandon
the stone-age technology of 4-cycle internal combustion.
“People pay(ing) for there (sic) Medicare throughout there (sic) working lives…”
is another example of federal government fraud. Like Social Security, it is
nothing more than a Ponzi scheme; Constitutionally illegal and treasonous.
Always remember Occam’s Razor, part of which teaches us that the simplest
explanation is usually the correct one. As it applies here, the more involvement
Washington has, the worse the matter becomes; therefore, reducing, and in most
cases eliminating, its involvement will improve the situation. To put it bluntly,
the federal government needs to get the hell out of our lives. Would to God that
the average American realized that the citizens of the several states were never
intended by the Founders to have a direct relationship with the United States
government…
I like what you said about getting a backbone and tightening our belts. I don’t
know if it would drive prices down, but I think there’s a good chance it would,
at least on some things. I’ve already done it. To everyone else: come on in,
the water’s fine.
You say China, Japan, and Saudi Arabia have bought part of our debt. I will defer
to your statement. But, how did we get into this debt in the first place? (A
rhetorical question; I know the answer) Have you ever thought of where you might go if
you wanted to borrow, say, $9,000,000,000,000.00? How about if you could find a
bank that said, “No problem; we’ll just have it printed up in a jiffy. Come on
down and we’ll discuss collateral…” Washington’s got one! It’s called the
Federal Reserve Bank, which isn’t Federal, and doesn’t have any reserves; just an
arrangement with the Treasury Department, whom they pay $.33 per bill printed, which
is then loaned to the guv’mnt at face value.
And here I’ve thought all my life that working was the way to get ahead.
Oh, and collateral for that loan? It’s called sovereignty.
George Bush? I’ll offer this…
If Mr. Bush lived in Colonial times and served under Mr. Washington, and were he to
be a party to something not half so treasonous as, say, the North American Union, Mr. Washington would have had him tried and executed. I see no reason why it should be any different in our day, although, Mr. Bush actually being the CinC, the process would be more involved.
Bulldog23A
Mar 18, 2007
Jeff, I need your help. Come see my blog…
Jeff Hoyt
Mar 18, 2007
Bulldog,
Went to your site and trolled a bit, but the contact link seems to be down. I’ll try another browser in a minute – meantime, I wanted to let you know I saw your post.
Jeff
Lora Brock (Hoyt)
Mar 22, 2007
I think that my daddy is a very smart man!!! I have been reading these blogs for the past half hour and I have come to the realization that many American citizens are alot like me…going on with their day to day lives, trying to make ends meet, hoping that they will be able to have enough to pay their bills, feed their kids, and just maybe have a little bit of fun with their family to prove that we are not just working to pay bills and feed our families. We run in an endless circle as humans without being aware of what goes on in our government as a whole. Oh we hear this or that on the news, but for the most part, we just brush it off saying yeah right, that will never happen. The children of my generation were really not given the tools to learn with as far as the issues presented on this page.(or at least that is my opinion).On top of that it is getting so much worse. How are we supposed to teach our children about the government and the goings on if we were never taught ourselves. I think it’s time to stop worrying about our children passing the FCAT (or whatever standardized test is in your neighborhood) and start teaching them skills that will help them cope in scociety so that they don’t have to be on welfare, or government assistance!!! Give them the tools that they will need in the years to come so that if the economy does collapse, they will know what to do for themselves, without having to rely on the “government” for handouts!!!
Bulldog23A
Mar 24, 2007
Hunting and Gardening are the only two skills that will help when it gets bad.
(Cue Gun Control Conversation…)
Verbos
Mar 25, 2007
Lora Brock is on the right track here. This is back to what I have said before:”Personal responsibility”. The schools systems in America discourage individual thought and only at home can the proper BASE be applied. Personal responsibility also includes self assertion and self defense. This gets us back to Bulldog23A.
Of great importance:America needs our “Mothers” back!
Lora B
Mar 25, 2007
This is going to put me on my soap box!!! I completly agree…and for all the mothers that say…”It’s too much”, I work a full time job and still help all 4 kids with homework every night!!! Not meaning to pat myself on the back, just saying…it’s pure laziness!!!Quit letting the TV and video games babysit our children and do something with them for a change. Do you know how many museums and family activities are out there??? We need to stop being lazy, pay more attention to our kids and then MAYBE they will have the chance to grow up #1 knowing that they have parents that give a rats a** about them, and #2 they might just learn something! Or better yet, they might learn how to become good parents themselves. Because lets face it, we are not raising children…we are raising the next generation of fathers, mothers, wives and husbands. How the devil are they going to know how to do it right if we don’t teach them!
Real Thinker
Mar 26, 2007
Most of the comments on economic issues are full of faulty reasoning. Too far right or left and have no pragmatic basis.
Jeff Hoyt
Mar 26, 2007
Well now, that was enlightening…
Duane
Apr 04, 2007
Ki$$ your retirement goodby – continued.
Anyone venture a guess when the stuff will hit the fan? I can ony imagine one morning waking up and turning on the TV news and showing mass confusion. Hopefully, there will be several warning shots to assume the position and put your head between your legs. Buy gold and silver – get those bills paid off and sleep better.
John
Apr 09, 2007
THIS is the true reason for “Homeland Security”. Can you imagine the cities when the crash comes? The PTB, Powers That Be, know, and are preparing to protect their wealth.
Duane
Apr 11, 2007
It feels like Y2K all over again. Spam, wind up radios and MREs. Maybe I should revist on how to grow a garden – its been awhile and cheaper to buy it at a Vegy Stand rather than grow it.
Invest in silver while your dollars are worth buying some. Get those bills paid off if you can.
Apr 17, 2007
The expanding welfare state - Homeland Stupidity
Apr 26, 2007
Ten years left for Social Security - Homeland Stupidity
Gary Anderson
May 07, 2007
The US government is encouraging mass speculation to prop up the dollar. Speculation started the first depression and it will be a cause of the next one if it happens. When speculation becomes too risky, banks refuse to loan. That is what is happening in the housing market.
It is not about socialism, because if anything, more money has gravitated to the top. Now the stock market is being buoyed by loose money, speculation, and all this in the face of a slowing economy. GDP was 1.3 percent last quarter.
The socialism goes to the folks who want us to control the world, the neocons, and they are getting rich off of the taxpayers.
Robert Herron
May 24, 2007
I keep trying to tell you…
You shouldn’t allow police to wear “the flag” on their
uniforms.
You may have to one day wear the flag and oppose the very
same flag to get your country back!
Richard Clement
May 31, 2007
Perhaps if the US pulled its head in, stopped trying to be an Imperial power, stopped spending AS MUCH AS THE REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED on military might things would be a little different.
Ron Pauls recent comments about blowback actually reflect what the rest of the World feels – whether you like to hear it or not – if you spent less time interfering and more time on getting on with life – the World could be a better, safer place.
Suspect
Jun 03, 2007
GDP 0.6% 1st quater 2007, with inflation that’s negative. It all comes down to one thing in the end… Is the USA producing as much as it’s consuming? No, not even nearly as much.. It’s not a case of needing to produce more, it’s a case of needing to consume less. But is it possible to change the mindset of a consumer-society before government debt reaches the point of no return? Nope.
M
Jun 03, 2007
Whoever wrote this needs to pull his head out of his ass. An economic collapse is looming on the horizon, but the capitalist system is to blame. Recheck your historical facts. Republicans controlled both congress and the white-house all through the 1920s, so if the Depression can be blamed on any party, its obviously the Republican party. In addition, the democratic era (1932 to 1968) saw the greatest period of economic growth before or since, and virtually created the middle class. The reason the country is in debt is due to bloated and unnecessary “defense” spending beginning during the Reagan years and continuing through today. We are not in the kind of danger politicians profess, and we should not be the world’s policeman. Cutting the defense budget by 60% will easily solve the problem of deficits. But then what of peak oil, global warming, environmental degradation, run amok corporations, massive government corruption, etc? I make no apologies for the Democrat’s of today. They will never solve our current problems. They have become little more that watered down republicans. The problem lies not so much in our political system, as in our economic system, capitalism. A system which requires continual growth to perpetuate can never survive on a planet with finite resources. Capitalism is killing us all slowly, but Americans are too stupid and/or brainwashed to understand.
You sir, are an idiot. . . wake the fuck up.
This planet will never be saved unless ALL FUCKING CAPITALISTS FUCKING DIE!!!
knight templar
Jun 06, 2007
my mortgage is the only debt i have.
Bob
Jun 24, 2007
First time reader. Couldn’t get through it all, I have work to do. About socialism: If you’re not a socialist before you are 20, you have no heart. If you are still a socialist by the time you’re 30, you have no brain. If you need an explanation, you are a socialist and the effort would be wasted. That was just a little humour for people with brains. I am a self proclaimed “naturalist”. Rule #1 in nature is that every living thing feeds itself or it dies. You can be a parasite but don’t expect a nice place to live. Rule #2 is that there is nothing for free, somebody pays the cost. What is yours used to belong to somebody else and there is somebody else who wants it for nothing. If they get it, you’ll understand rule #2. Rule #3 is that, contrary to popular belief, violence or the threat of violence, basically solves everything. Now I have work to do.
Bob
Jun 24, 2007
There is a rule #4 too, and that is that anything goes. You can do whatever you want but if you get too far out of line, rule #1 or rule #3 will catch up with you. Rule #2 isn’t really a rule of conduct, it’s just a natural law like that “action-reaction” one in physics. I don’t know if being a naturalist makes me a Republican or a Democrat or a Capitalist but I’m pretty sure that naturalist principles aren’t socialist principles. We are in the boat that we are in because we exploited rule #4, violated rule #1, ignored rule #2 and will probably fall victim to rule #3. So to all those confused, worried and angry people out there, study the four rules of nature and learn from them. To the guy that wants to kill all of the capitalists, rule #4 says “go ahead”. Rule #2 says “but it will cost you”, and rule #3 says ” you might try to kill the wrong capitalist who is also a firm believer in rules #4 and #3″. Why don’t you just follow rule 1 and worry about yourself.
Jul 05, 2007
Independence Day - Homeland Stupidity
Jul 06, 2007
SHTF Daily » Blog Archive » The coming economic collapse of the United States
Bob
Jul 15, 2007
Nobody out there? There is one more rule in the universe, but it’s a human rule. The one and only human rule? Gold buys everything except what it can’t buy. All the rest you can get with lead.
Erik
Jul 17, 2007
Good point with the lead bit Bob. Diversifying a good portion of ones currency into sound money like gold and silver is only one way to prepare yourself for hard times. Having the means and skills to provide and defend yourself and family (not to mention your wealth)during hard times should also be a priority.
Imagine (for example)that fuel is unavailable or cut drastically short for even a short period of time. Food trucks unable to deliver to the stores with now empty shelves. People now unable to feed their starving children. Government unable to help nation wide emergency sufficiently. The populace will go crazy. Does this simple example sound far fetched and luny? I don’t think so. Unless life support action is taken, America is headed on a downward parth.
Births and deaths of empires are not new realizations, but ancient ones. America with her unique freedoms is a new idea in the scheme of history. Our government was no longer to be be a ruling class and served. Rather it exists to protect the rights and serve the people. These freedoms which have separated our nation apart from all previous ones are today being eroded away.
IF as Americans we are able to awake the slumbering masses(and I believe we can) the dreaded crash which seems to be at our door hopefully can be avoided. I encourage everyone to familiarize themselves with presidential candidate, Dr. and Congressman Ron Paul. He is the Thomas Jefferson of our day.
Bob
Jul 25, 2007
Erik, you sound suspiciously like someone from the government. Perhaps one of the men in black. If I accidentally set off a computer trigger with my ramblings, I apologise. I appreciate the advice on who to vote for, but I have long since come to the conclusion that there is not a politician alive capable of getting us out of this mess. It just has to run it’s course. We’re living in la la land and it’s going to have to get worse before it can get better. The problem with that is that the majority is no longer capable of coping with things getting worse. The last time we had a Depression, most people had the practical skills to light a campfire and kill a rabbit, split some firewood for a bowl of soup or sneak some milk from a farmer’s cow. They rode the boxcars looking for work and made do the best that they could. Take a look around the next time you are in a crowd. Do you see people like that today? Most of us are hopeless, even at the basic level of being too fat, sick, old or weak to do a day’s labour. (My apologies for the political incorrectness of that statement even if it does smack of the truth.) Do you see people that even believe that it’s their responsibility to look after themselves? If their kids go hungry or their roof blows off, it’s the government’s job to do something. There is a general sense of entitlement at every age level today, and very few people feel obligated to look after their own needs even if they are able. No one like that is going to vote for someone who really intends to tighten the nation’s belt. That means he’s going to have to lie to get elected, or do it by force and those kind of people usually get out of hand. But hey, good luck with your Congressman, Erik.
Bob
Jul 25, 2007
Reagan was the last president to have had an opportunity to get us back on track, but he chose to head in the direction that would give us twenty or thirty more years of good times instead. Even so, I couldn’t help but like the guy. He had character and I think he was basically a good man. I can’t say the same for any of the presidents since then. And who knows, maybe it was too far gone even then. You have to think global because it’s all connected.
Erik
Jul 25, 2007
Bob,
Again check into Ron Paul. He has promised as president to abolish the Federal Reserve, end the IRS, basically to shrink the size of today’s government SIGNIFICANTLY. By shrinking the size of government, you can shrink the spending. He wants to revert back to a non-intervention foreign policy. He wants to reinstate sound money. He wants to not only bring home the troops in the middle east, but wants to bring home ALL troops world wide immediately. And that is just scratching the surface.
Bob, check him out, see that he is indeed the Thomas Jefferson of our day. Then tell as many people about him as you can.
Bob
Jul 25, 2007
I watched a few speeches but it didn’t change my mind. He seems like a sincere man, but…. I don’t think you fully comprehend the fragility of the house of cards that we live in. You can’t abolish the Federal Reserve without bringing down the entire global economy. If you end the IRS, shrink government and shrink spending, you will put millions of Americans out of work and end handout lifestyles. What will those people do without a government support system? If you cut military spending you will put milions more out of work. With all those people out of work, Social Security will collapse. No more 401K’s either. Then you will have a lot of old people who will have to move in with their jobless and homeless offspring. You will need all the troops home just to control our own streets, but what will you pay them with if you’ve created a valueless greenback? We have pitiful gold reserves. You won’t need to worry about meddling in foreign affairs because foreigners will take the opportunity to meddle in ours when we are struggling. I don’t think you understand the hatred that is out there for the Western way of life. They will step on our necks at first chance. There won’t be anyone to help us because if our economy goes, they all go. It’s too late Erik. This is just a game now of trying to keep our bubble in the air as long as we can. Don’t touch it, just try to get under it and gently keep trying to blow it back up in the air. It’s going to pop but we just don’t know when. I not trying to be negative, I’m just looking at it for what it is.
Erik
Jul 25, 2007
Bob,
As I said with my first post to you. Empires come and go. There has never been one where this wasn’t the case. While I can relate to your fears I cannot agree with your assessment that it’s ‘to late.’ If any country call pull themselves from the hands of evil, it is America.
Ron Paul knows that by abolishing the Federal Reserve there will be world wide economic trouble. But we cannot sustain this bubble forever. And to do what is moral and just, like abolishing the Fed – though trouble initially would result in its collapse, still must be done. It with its insatiable lust and greed has provided the funding to allow America to finance its growing neoconservative doctrine of preemptive war. “For the love of money is the root of all evil.”
Social Security cannot survive another 20 years, the money just isn’t there. 401k’s? I don’t think you understand that the economy is already in a state of collapse now. The dollar in seven years has been devalued by 50%! Whether you depend on government support or jobs, it means nothing if inflation continues. And due to our current monetary system it will! This hidden inflation tax reduces the value of our savings and purchasing power.
Our Gold reserves are probably pitiful, if we still have any. The Fed does not allow audits of our own gold. And yes the world hates us. But it was not always this widespread. But then again, America did not always follow its current neoconservative preemptive war doctrine.
To say that hard times are not in America’s future is being ignorant of the situation around us. But America is still a great nation. If we can just wake each other up! The people still have power. We can get out of the hard times to come. Heck if we need more gold lets mine it from our mountains. If the gigantic military budget is reduced to its former self, who knows what we could develop with all the extra money we’d have to invest.
America is not finished.
Bob
Jul 26, 2007
I truly admire your patriotism Erik, but I just don’t think you appreciate the repercussions of the changes you describe. I grew up on a farm out in the sticks with no power, no phone, cold running water and an outhouse, and that’s what we’re headed for when this economy collapses. It sounds so romantic and environmental but the thing is, of all the people I know, there are only a handful who could live like that and even fewer who would tolerate it. Oh, it’s fun for a weekend or a summer of hippie treeplanting but when it’s all you’ve got for 12 months out of the year, the fun goes out of it and your weaknesses show up pretty quick. People today will not willingly go back to that no matter how much you wave a flag at them. When it’s eventually forced on them there will be a lot of death and chaos and enemies there to make it worse. Ron Paul would be crazy to bring that all about one minute sooner than it is going to happen naturally. He would get blamed for it.
The Devil is in the details. There won’t be enough social order to mine gold and rebuild the country. That’s giving it the benefit of the doubt and assuming that we don’t have to deal with diseases and natural disasters. The population just isn’t the same as it was 70 years ago and I don’t see that the coming change is survivable for the western world. There will no doubt be survivors but I don’t think the structure will be recognizable as anything similar to what we’ve had in the past. I’m not saying that America is finished, just our way of life.
One more thing. Preemptive war doctrine is not new. America was built on war, starting with the British and the Indians. Depending on the point of view, sometimes we started it and sometimes we didn’t. Once we were in it, however, we committed ourselves to winning it at all costs. Sometimes it got pretty ugly, don’t try to say otherwise. We were always decent and generous to the losers but we beat the hell out of them first. That worked out well for us. It’s only been the last few wars that have lacked our total commitment. Curiously enough, we haven’t done so well with those. I’ll only agree with you so far as to say that we shouldn’t start wars that we don’t intend to win at all costs and as quickly as possible. If that means leaving a parking lot in the middle east with a lot of American owned oil wells sticking out of it, then so be it. They won’t hate us any more for it than they do now, but they might have a little more respect.
When the Palestinians dance in the streets after we lose a few thousand lives in the collapse of a New York City landmark, it means that they don’t respect us and I don’t think that they should be getting our tax money to help them out. There’s a cutback that won’t hurt anybody.
Anybody else care to jump in here? I have to take a break.
Erik
Jul 26, 2007
There are to many issues here to discuss them all properly. But briefly, I think we are envisioning two very different scenarios that may become of America. Your scenario entails that due to a currency / economic crash in America, Americans would suffer and have to resort back to an 18th century life style. Hunt and plant for food, no technology, no running water etc. Do you really think that’s a feasible reality?
I rather would argue that if we experience such a crash, yes there would be suffering. Starvation, disease, crime, yes much like the world we live in today these problems would intensify. I however cannot believe that we would not be able to pull ourselves out of hard times. Our fathers survived the great depression. And we can survive a greater depression.
Now, as I say we can survive, I say it with the assumption that preparation has somewhat been arranged if an economic collapse should occur. ‘We’ have a store of water, food, firearms, and gear. Not being fanatical and hiding in our basements with a loaded rifle, but having the basic commodities to survive if food cannot be bought at stores anymore…
I do not want to see this country collapse. I do not want to see my countrymen die from ignorance. So I revert back to previous statements that we must wake each other up to the reality of our economic situation. By doing this we can help other prepare for what may happen in our lifetime. I can not give up hope.
Bob
Jul 29, 2007
Hope has nothing to do with it Erik.
I read a story a long time ago, about a herd of wild pigs that was causing a lot of grief for a small village in Europe somewhere. They were too wiley to be caught or hunted and they were destroying crops and gardens. One man said he knew how to catch them. The village hired him and he disappeared into the forest where the pigs lived. It took him almost a year but he eventually came out with a herd of pigs. How did he catch them?
He offered them free food in a pile on the ground in a clearing. For weeks they wouldn’t come near it but then some of the younger ones ventured in for a free meal. After a while, a few more and a few more would eat. When all the pigs were eating the food he set about catching them. Every morning before he fed them he would place one log of a fence on the edge of the clearing around the food. Each day the fence got bigger and pretty soon the pigs had to jump over to get in. Eventually they had to search around the outside for a way to get through to the food. Finally one day when the pigs were eating, the man blocked the entrance and the pigs were caught.
At that point it was too late for those pigs to hope that they could get out.
We’re like those pigs and these are the logs of our pen. We’ve had 60 or 70 years of electricity at the flick of a switch. Also, water, sewer, easy communication, transportation and social order. We grew to expect more room and comfort from our homes and cars. That made them cost more so we borrowed the money. Then we started to get hooked on T.V., entertainment and recreation. Morals started to relax and it became easier to depend on a government for support rather than a “judgemental” family that expected your support in return. (I’m talking about seniors living independantly on govt. and company pensions, young people looked after by welfare because they don’t want to listen to their parents, and people protected by govt. jobs,union deals or social assistance programs who don’t want to look after themselves.) The government started to borrow money in order to provide these comforts for the voters.
It got out of hand Erik, and now we’re trapped. My point that I’m trying to make to you is that even if we could get out of the pen, most of us don’t know how to feed ourselves anymore.
If enough people can’t pay their utility bills, there will be no utilities because the utility companies will go broke. If they can’t pay on their loans and mortgages, there will be no money in the bank for anybody. If you can’t buy gas or diesel or insurance and license, you will have to walk. Food doesn’t drop out of the sky it has to come from somewhere. You can’t store enough to last you any length of time, especially in a freezer. A store of food restricts your mobility. Try to live without these things for a week and see how you make out. Then imagine 75% of the population doing the same thing at the same time.
In answer to your question, yes, I think that the scenario I described earlier is a feasible reality.
Have you been watching the markets and reading the commentaries lately?
Bob
Jul 29, 2007
I just can’t quit.
Details Erik. How long can you live in a home when the taps don’t run and the toilets don’t flush? Some cities literally can’t exist without air conditioning and water. How far can you travel if you have to walk? The food and water for the trip would have to be carried on your back. I remember a Gunsmoke episode where a guy was trapped at a desert waterhole because he had no horse and he couldn’t carry enough water to make the trip out. How long will your clothes and boots and tools last if you don’t have the means to fix or replace them? How will you know what’s going on if you can’t turn on the T.V. or radio or pick up the phone? Batteries only last so long. Not many people have short wave. How long before you start to panic? 2 weeks? A month? Look what happened in Louisianna.
You can’t just “wake people up”. The skills needed to be self sufficient and capable take years to learn and need to be practised regularily or you lose them. It takes a whole different way of thinking. It would take years to retrain the population, especially against their will. They have no desire to be independent. This is just reality.
I’m not giving up, and I hope that a lot of people can get through the changes to come but that doesn’t change the way it is today.
Iron Mike
Aug 11, 2007
This is all very scary stuff. Anyone who has been paying attention to national and world events has had the bad gut feeling for awhile now. If a depression hits, what could possibly bring us out of it this time? Some say WW2 pulled us out of the last one. Did it? Bond drives had to be held to keep the war effort going. At the end of the war, the U.S. was pretty much bankrupt. The difference then was other countries owed us! Fast forward 60 yrs. Now we owe them. A huge trade deficit. A huge national debt. How can we turn this around? Can the average person do anything? Is the problem too big and too far along that even The President with all of his authority will not be able to stop this disaster from happening?
Erik
Aug 12, 2007
America will survive. There may be disastrous times ahead, but the same blood which ran in our fathers runs in us. They held their ground and we will hold ours. We will overcome evil.
freeks
Aug 18, 2007
hey erik
You may come all over evil, but who is the fairest in the Land? look in the american mirror to see where evil lives.
We’re all just projecting our fears, and labels of ‘evil’ onto innocent brown people.
the United States will morph into the North American Union, NOT survive in its present state and not be recognizable as a republic. our founding fathers are dead in more than the obvious way.
in other words, “we have met the enemy and he is us’”-Pogo. After destoying every good thing indiginous people around the world possessed, we have turned on ourselves like cannibals.
freeks
Aug 18, 2007
whoa, now..read the article and question it, instead of predicting the future. ron paul is anti war. he will first stop foriegn interventionism policies, THEN address the handouts. Corporate military handouts are larger than social programs, but the statists and war mongers don’t want you to know that. Ron Paul knows different . Ron Paul for President.
Erik
Aug 18, 2007
freeks,
It’s the attitude which you project that will not help the future situation. Sure America has its problems like any country. But all the American people are not pro war. I believe that the majority of Americans are disgusted with the murdering of innocent people overseas. I know I am.
No, the North American Union will not happen unless we allow it to happen. What could Europeans do? They didn’t have any influence (guns) to stand up to the officials in their countrys going along with the EU. What could they really do? Protesting only goes so far.
No our road will not be that of Europe. The PTB know this. This is why they have to try an orchestrate a financial crash. By doing this they think Americans will stand in bread lines exchanging their guns for food. They obviously underestimate America. This county is far from over.
Bob
Aug 19, 2007
“projecting our fears and labels of evil on ‘innocent’ brown people”
Our heroes are people who are willing to die to protect others. Their heroes are willing to die to kill others and if they can get a bunch of infidel kids on a school bus, that’s even better. Suicide bombers. That’s not a label or a fear, and it isn’t my definition of innocent. I’m sure that there are some good “brown people” but they’re not running things over there or over here and they are not in the majority.
I read a quote one time that went something like ” He shall be a wild man and his hand will be against every man”. Look that one up freek.
Do you see what I’m talking about Erik? There are millions of freeks out there who are going to hamper any kind of positive effort to make things better. In a natural world they wouldn’t last long but we’ve created an environment where they thrive.
Without becoming a military dictator, Ron Paul hasn’t got a chance to make things right. He would get bogged down in protests and debates. You can’t put millions out of work or off the welfare lines and expect a pat on the back from the freeks. Freeks don’t know what they think or believe in, they just like to beak off and stir things up. Unfortunately, our system protects their right to do that.
Two books for you to read;
America Alone
While Europe Slept(author is gay and brings the subject up alot. I found that difficult, but he makes some good points about the Islamic movement and the world it is taking over. I respect that)
qball
Aug 20, 2007
How did today’s looming tragedy come to pass? I apologize for not running across this article sooner but I think I can shed some light on the subject for anyone reading through these comments.
Looking for causes is like peeling an onion. What we are really seeing are the terminal throws of a failed financial system almost a century old. It’s happening because-since the creation of the Federal Reserve System in 1913-even during the period of the new deal with its Keynesian economics aimed at full employment-our economy has been based almost entirely on fractional reserve banking.
This means that under the regime of the world’s all-powerful central banking systems, money is brought into existence only as debt-bearing loans. Interest on this lending tends to grow exponentially, unless overtaken by real economic growth. Remember that every instance of bank lending, from the purchase of Treasury bonds, to credit cards, to home mortgages, to billion dollar loans to hedge funds for leveraged buyouts or sheer speculation, must eventually be paid back somewhere, sometime, somehow, by somebody, with interest. In the end, it all comes back to people who work for a living, whether in the US or elsewhere, because that is the only way the world community ever creates real wealth.
In an anemic economy like that of the US, growth cannot catch up with interest in a deregulated financial marketplace where interest rates are high. Rates may not seem high compared with say, the twenty-percent plus rates of the early 1980’s, but they are high in an economy with, at best, a two-percent GDP (gross domestic product) growth rate. And they have been high on average since the 1960’s, as the banking industry became increasingly deregulated. Interestingly, since 1965 the US dollar has lost eighty percent of its value, which tends to validate the contention by some observers that higher interest rates not only do not reduce inflation, as the Federal Reserve contends, but actually cause it. The situation is worse in many respects today than it was in 1929, because the debt “overhang” versus real economic value is much higher now than it was then. The US economy was in far better shape in the 1920’s than it is now, because so much of our population was gainfully employed in factories or on farms.
The question is not when will the system start to come down, because this has already begun. It’s shown most clearly by the fact that according to Federal Reserve data, M1, the part of the money supply most readily available for consumer purchases is not only lagging behind inflation but has actually decreased in eleven of the past twelve months. This means that the producing economy is already in a recession. The federal government is trying to figure out what to do. Their biggest concern is that foreign investors have started to pull out of dollar-denominated markets. The governments “plunge protection team”-known officially as the Presidents Working Group on Financial Markets-is trying to engineer what they call a “soft landing”. It’s been likened to the process by which you cook a frog in a pot and raise the temperature by one degree per day. The frog doesn’t jump out because the heat goes up gradually, but before long it’s too late. The frog has been cooked.
Even if they succeed to some extent, and the frog cooks slowly, there will be a massive de facto default on dollar-denominated debt and a long-term degradation of the US standard of living. The inside word is that we are likely to see major monetary shocks and a possible stock market crash as early as December, 2007. The worst off will be people locked into retirement funds which have a heavy load of mortgage-related securities. Entire investment portfolios are likely to disappear overnight. The banks, along with the bank-leveraged equity and hedge funds, are preparing for the biggest fire sale in at least a generation. Insiders are going liquid to get ready. If you think Enron was “the bomb”, you won’t want to miss this one.
In summation, I implore you all to be sensibly optimistic. However, it is with great import that I encourage to be prepared to bend over and kiss your ass goodbye.
Bob
Aug 26, 2007
When you say that the economy situation is worse today than in 1929 because of the debt overhang, I couldn’t agree with you more. What’s worse is that we are not in a situation where the government can bail us out by spending money(like they eventually did the last time) because they haven’t got any. Any money that they print this time would be worthless.
All that said, I think there is something else that will make the coming collapse nearly unbearable and I’ve tried to discuss it here, but we keep talking about Ron Paul. The factor that will cause trouble this time is today’s people. We are fat, lazy, lacking in practical skills and above all, in a strange mental state. Most people seem to lack any form of empathy for their fellow man, there doesn’t seem to be any attempt made to apply logic or common sense to what we think, and there is an overall naive faith that “someone will look after me, because they are supposed to”. People get mad if they are left to fend for themselves. I wasn’t there in the 30′s, I can only go by what I’ve heard and read, but I don’t think people were like that in 1929.
What are your thoughts on this, Qball?
Bob
Aug 26, 2007
I just realized that no one responded to Iron Mike with any specific answers to his questions. Here are my thoughts.
First question. Nothing can fix this economy but something will definitely come out of it’s collapse. Human will to survive and rebuild is amazing.
Second question. Yes, I think WWII did bring us out of the last depression, by giving us a powerful and aggressive enemy to overcome and a sense of purpose as a nation. The economics were a side benefit.
Third question. How can we turn this around? We can’t, just try to get out of the way.
Fifth question. Can the President do anything? I don’t think so. We’ve been indoctrinated to believe that our leaders are all knowing and all powerful, or at least are in control of a group of people who have a masterplan and a grasp of what’s going on. We are always confident that they are able to think logically and will make their decisions based on all of the facts and for the greater good. Lately I’ve come to believe from the evidence that this is just not true. I think our leaders are just people, bumbling along and screwing up like the rest of us and in some cases, they’re not even very smart. They just know that going around and saying things that people want to hear, makes them popular. Like Al Gore for example. We want entertainers today, not leaders.
Finally, the forth question. The best for last. Can the average person do anything? Get yourself ready. I’m not talking about stockpiling and hoarding, I’m talking about more useful things. First, maintain an acceptable level of health and fitness, you’re going to need it. Learn things. How to fix, how to be aware of your surroundings, how to use tools and machinery, how to make and find the things that you will need and most of all, get in touch with your own physical and mental limits. Learn what you are capable of and work within those boundaries. Become aware of how much influence you personally can have over your environment and the world around you. Take charge of your life and try to become comfortable with the responsibility that goes along with that. You are going to make mistakes. Learn to deal with them without losing your focus.
This all takes time so get started as quick as you can. Good luck Iron Mike and may the Force be with you.
Shaniqua Jenkins
Aug 30, 2007
Duz Dis meen my fooostamp card ain’t gonna be goods no mo’
Bob
Sep 04, 2007
Do I detect sarcasm? Use your humor, stop a tumor, that’s what I say.
Greg
Sep 05, 2007
While I concur in the prognosis — collapse coming — I find the diagnosis to be ridiculous. Why, pray tell, blame “entitlement programs” for the financial mess we’re in? Because the Fed chief says so? You mean the guy who is running the same policies as his predecessor, the guy who drove monetary policy off a cliff in order to create asset bubbles so the filthy rich could get richer and then bail out to leave the average Joe holding the bag? Think he may have an ideological basis that leads him to blame “entitlement programs” rather than other things? Why not the military budget? Farm subsidies? Mortgage deductions? Or any number of things?
One of the things I find most amazing about this kind of dunder-headed “analysis” is that it blissfully ignores the experiences of the rest of the world, blithely unaware that there are counter-examples that completely disprove the thesis. Let’s take Denmark, for example. It has record low unemployment, NO GOVERNMENT DEBT WHATSOEVER, a top marginal income tax rate of 60%, a massive welfare state, universal health-care, no-tuition higher education, and, to top it all off, a booming economy. Socialism defined, with a thriving business-driven economy. It also doesn’t have a bloated military budget that is used to subsidize high-tech industry and other monopolistic mega-corporations who feed at the public trough instead of actually having to compete in the real world.
And there is a reason why Medicaid and Medicare are out of control — and it isn’t because they are “entitlements.” After all, if Denmark can fund health care for its entire population and keep its budget in the black, we should be able to do the same. Indeed, the real reason is mentioned right there in the GAO report you pretend to have read and understood. “Spiraling health-care costs.” Perhaps we should examine why health-care costs are out of control in this country. Sure, you can start by looking at your favorite canard — the “trial lawyers.” But at least have the integrity and intellectual honesty to seek out other causes. One alternative you might want to look at is the role of profit and administrative redundancy in a private, for-profit healthcare system. The answers may surprise you. Or not, because anyone who thinks it clever to intone the word “socialism” in this context can’t be too big on actually thinking critically.
Bob
Sep 05, 2007
Hey, got a bite!
Let’s look at the word “entitlement”. When you believe that you deserve something without having done anything to earn it, you’re guilty of feeling entitled. You’re right that farm subsidies and mortgage deductions are entitlement programs because the people who take advantage of them feel that they are entitled to them. People feel entitled to welfare and do-nothing government jobs. People also feel entitled to huge profits when they invest in the stock market and huge returns on their pension investments. People want to sell their homes for more than they paid for them, even if they haven’t made a single improvement. Our whole system is one big entitlement program and all based on the government going deeper in debt to finance it. Sure, the rich got richer but the average Joe has also been able to live a lifestyle way beyond his means(or what he deserves based on effort, ability and productivity). Most of us are guilty of expecting something for nothing. Our problems however, are not contained just within the United States.
You want to use Denmark as an example of perfection? Maybe they have it good but it’s only because they have been able to live under the umbrella of US protection for over sixty years. Thanks to our bloated military budget they could use their money for all kinds of fun stuff. With the exception of Great Britain, all of the European countries are guilty of prospering under our wing. They believe that they are entitled to security but it costs the US bigtime. Remember the Iron Curtain? The threat of US retaliation kept that curtain where it was. There weren’t many people trying to get inside but a lot of people got shot trying to get out. If it wasn’t for the US, Western Europe wouldn’t be the candyland it is today.
And who does the world look to when a disaster happens? I’m sure the Americans will be there with their big wasteful aircraft carriers and cargo planes to spend a pile of money. Remember the tsnunami? The world hates us if we don’t do enough. They are “entitled” to more from the United States. Oh, and a new killer disease? Let’s call Atlanta! They spend way too much on their health care over there but we’re sure lucky that it pays for all that research that we don’t have to do. And those Americans better sell the vaccines to us cheap too or better yet give them to us because we’re entitled. You talk about corporations competing in the real world but I don’t think you understand what the real world is.
Socialism can only thrive if it is supported by a system of government that promotes wealth, productivity and independence. Watch what happens to your precious Denmark when our economy crashes.
Greg
Sep 06, 2007
Bob, nice way to evade every relevant issue raised in my post. You make no effort to address the main point, which is that it is stupid ideological bias to search for the cause of the US’s woes in “entitlement” programs when there are a lot of other candidates staring you in the face. What a cramped world-view you right-wingers live in. When all else fails, incant “socialism, socialism, socialism.” Absurd.
You also pretend not to understand the fact that there are counter-examples to your claim that a large welfare program is the “cause” of economic woes. The most successful economy in modern times — in terms of growth and development — is China, of course, which is not a ward of the US’s “protective umbrella” and is as socialist as socialist gets these days. Indeed, state protection and intervention, together with extensive public spending on welfare, education, health, etc., has been a winning economic formula throughout Asia, which has experienced economic growth unprecedented in modern times.
The US enjoys a unique position in the world due to its status as the world’s largest economy. While it is not too big to fail, it is big enough to hold failure at bay for longer than any other economy would be able to, but we are starting to approach the limit of other countries’ willingness and ability to bail us out and shore us up. When we do fail, it will not be because of things you call “entitlements” (aid to the poor and the middle class, as paltry as it is here compared to the rest of the developed world), but because of things I call “entitlements” (crony capitalism, corporatist policies, forced transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top, a failure to invest for the general welfare, a tax system rigged in favor of the rich, etc., etc.). The US had a choice to be either empire or republic. Our leaders chose the former, and we let them or were too stupid to understand what was going on. The costs of empire are unsustainable, as every empire has discovered, and as we are about to.
Bob
Sep 06, 2007
I didn’t evade any of your issues, I even agreed with you (in a sense) on your list of other causes, I just see them all as entitlement programs. Programs funded by the US taxpayer and handed out to people and countries who take them for granted and don’t even acknowledge the source of their good fortune.
I resent beig called a right winger. I have posted before in comments 52 and 53 that I consider myself a “naturalist”.
The closest representation of socialism in nature is the life of a parasite. A parasite cannot exist without a host. The host provides the environment for the parasite to live in and if left unchecked the situation results in the poor health or death of the host. The parasite is able to live in the corpse of the host for a while but it dies too unless it can crawl out and find another host. Most historical examples of socialist governments survive the death of their host by changing into something that isn’t socialist.
Hitler started as a socialist but became a Facist. Cuba turned into a communist dictatorship. Russia turned communist. China never was socialist. China started communist and is still communist. They have opened their borders to capitalist ideas under pressure from their population and it has breathed life into their economy. The communist government however, continues to hold the reins of power. Their wealth has only come by not allowing their currency to trade freely on the world markets and then dumping tons of cheaply manufactured goods onto the western economies. Once again the US taxpayer has paid and paid double by buying the goods and losing the manufacturing jobs.
I’ve read articles written by people who have recently spent time in China. They marvel at the clean modern cities and absence of crime. I find it amusing that those reporters would scream in horror if a western government used the same methods as the Chinese to keep things clean and orderly. Their booming economy is raping the Chinese environment. We wouldn’t tolerate that here but everybody lines up to invest in their country. And it is their country. I wouldn’t be surprised if their government eventually nationalizes the businesses that have been built with western investment and tells all foreigners to get out. As you say, they are an independent force to be reckoned with and I believe that they will fund and use the moslem movement to eventually dominate the world(just my opinion). I wouldn’t use them as a shining example of socialism if I were you however, because they are not socialist, and things won’t be as nice as they are now when the Chinese are running things.
The system that will survive the longest is the one that comes closest to the example set by nature in which every individual in that system follows the four rules I described in my earlier posts. Socialism doesn’t come close. The idea is just stupid and is not self sustaining. “Take from the rich and give to the poor”. You’re screwed when you run out of rich people. “From each according to his ability and to each according to his need”. If I lived with a bunch of roomates like that, I would sure hide my ability.
Bob
Sep 06, 2007
Okay, I spelled “being” wrong in the first sentence of the second paragraph. Take ten marks off.
In reading that back to myself, I realized how greedy and despicable I sounded in my last sentence by wanting to hide my abilities from my roomates. It would be perfectly social and selfless of them to expect for free, all that I have to offer and inexcusable for me to want to keep what is mine. I hang my head in shame. (Sarcasm, don’t you love it?)
Two more points that I would like to make.
The only Asian countries with successful economies, including China, are the ones who have adopted a certain level of western style capitalism. Following that, they were only successful because they were able to take advantage of a system already established by the US and Great Britain after WWII. That is just a fact. India could…maybe… be the only exception to that statement.
The second point is one I made already. I will try to be more direct this time because you seem to have missed it. The reason that the rest of the developed world(Europe) can spend more on social programs is because the US has nearly single handedly carried the cost of western defense since WWII, and for the last 20 or 30 years, the cost of medical research. Not to mention the cost of a space program that has cost billions. (The knowledge gained in space exploration has been shared with the world, and in some cases, the sense of accomplishment too. Everywhere you go, people will say “man has been to the moon” but really, only the Americans managed to get there. Of course that has been exposed as a hoax……..sarcasm again) That’s about as direct and clear as I can be on that point.
The only system of government that has ever come close to the example given by nature is the one laid out in the original Constitution of the United States…… but then you and your socialist parasite left wingers wrecked it. Ha! Ahha ha ha! aaaaaaaaah, I’m loving this.
Neil
Oct 11, 2007
No country in the history of earth has ever spent itself into prosperity. Give a man a fish feed him for the day, teach him how to fish he will feed himself for a lifetime. Where does personal responsibility begin and end??
It is a nice theory to think that if we give money to the poor, that it is helping them. They need to learn to survive on their own and not rely on handouts. Does it see cold hearted??? Yes, but if we enable them to continue their bad decisions they will never learn. We can see this by the generation after generation on welfare.
The government cannot be responsible with money. They are also very inefficent and get bloated with burecracy. There is no competitin or choices by the individual recievng their services. It is a monopoly. If there is competition the individual can bargain a price and have options to choose between. Competition and innovation will lead to cost cuts to make more affordable to everyone.
For example if we implement socialized medicine, it will be inefficent and bloated with bureaucracy which will drive up the costs so the services will be less that promised. They will cut servides to save money which will lead to Long lines, and waiting for services. If we don’t like the service, its just too bad. We have no choice.
Now if we don’t like a doctor or hospital we have a choice and can go somewhere else.
Another example is the welfare system. Only 30 cents on every dollar gets to the needy! This is bureaucracy at its finest! Not to mention the corruption that is involved! We need to bring this down to the local level where there is accountablility.
There is also a redundancy. The fed has a welfare system, the state the county, this all could be consolodated to make the system more efficent. Will all this ever happen?? Too many people making too much money off the system the way it is.
Socialism breeds laziness and complacancy and strips people of freedom and idividualism. This in NOT the American way.
Bob
Oct 14, 2007
How come Greg doesn’t pick on you, Neil? You sound like a right-winger with a cramped world view. Maybe he never recovered from my vicious taunting. Those socialists can be kind of frail sometimes.
GlenGary
Oct 14, 2007
I’m new here but here goes. When the economy implodes upon itself
and folks are scrambling to eat, maybe pay a heating bill and
get enough gas to work if they still have a job, will it matter
what did it? Will finger pointing feed the kids, keep the body
warm? I hardly think that disecting the reason for anything
does much more than stall planning and prevent the learning of
coping skills.
I think that how to deal with what is coming is most important
and one’s best bet for success.
I have a plan to deal with this I’ve been working at monthly
for many years. I started thinking about how to feed myself, wipe
my bum, protect my assets, protect my home, heat etc for at
least a few years without buying anything. Bunker Mentality
maybe. But it beats being hungry, cold, broke or exposed to
those who WILL try to take what they do not have.
GlenGary
Oct 14, 2007
Something To Ponder
Everyone can buy excess canned goods and there are places that sell ship’s stores which is canned meat with a begin to use date seven years down the road. I’ve tested beef, pork, chicken and turkey in 28 oz cans and it is quite good. We have used them in a hunting cabin left there for years. They stay good.
One can buy cases of cans of TVP in chicken, beef, turkey, ham, sausage flavors that are shelf-life 15 years or more. Dehydrated soups and stews packed for long term store in bulk. Those little Dak hams and stuff like Spam and Treet store well for years. Cans of tuna. Use your imagination.
In addition one can buy 6 gallon buckets of grains, grain mixes, dehydrated eggs, milk, butter, bread, pancake mixes, cheese, cheese blends, desserts, potatoes, veggies, fruits-freeze dried or dehydrated and all of these are long term stores nitrogen packed with oxygen absorbers with a very long shelf life.
You can buy 25 or 50 pound bags of grain, divide it up and put maybe a three month supply of each in buckets. Also buy a grain mill. I suggest one that is hand operated.
You can buy bulk corn meal, whole wheat flour, oats, bran, rice, beans, noodles, pasta, different types of sugar and spices, salt and buy 4 or 5 gallon buckets with gasket lids and with oxygen absorbers pack some of your own buckets. US Plastics sells gasket sealing buckets food grade of all sizes and Walton Mills is like you name it in dehydrated food they have it. As for ships stores, most places give a wholesale price if more than two cases are purchased.
A little bought every month becomes a huge supply after just a few years. You can buy literally hundreds of pounds of food quite cheaply if you know how. Just make sure it is balanced and varied so you do not get food fatigue or defiencies.
Aside from gardening and some hunting, having some type of alternate heat and cooking and lighting arrangement, one should own a gun or two with all adults knowing how to use them. A used Savage 30-06 or an SKS can be had for $200 or less or maybe a used 12ga pump. Most folks will not challenge a gun. For those that do… Oh well…you asked for it.
I do not think there is such a thing as hoarding when one is planning to protect a family from what seems obvious is coming. In fact, it is just crazy stupid to not step out of the way of an oncoming train and save your life. I have never fancied myself in the misery loves company crowd ever so I plan and put actions to plans. I want to survive so I will do everything I can to make it so.
Just something to think about that might save a neck or two because there is nothing worse than panic and fear in the heat of the moment. Instead of panic and fear, with ample resources set in place one can move quickly to the next step whatever that might be while everyone else is losing it. Gain an edge.
“When you’re one step ahead
of the crowd you’re a genius.
When you’re two steps ahead,
you’re a crackpot.”
Tom Lowe
Oct 14, 2007
‘Bob” says he likes Reagan. For that one comment I have to dismiss everything Bob has written on this site. Reagan did not have character. He was nothing but an ignorant actor working for others–a front man–and nothing else.
Bob
Oct 14, 2007
I might as well come clean. I like Willie Nelson too, and the Monty Python crowd…….. and even knowing what we all know now, I still laugh like hell at the works of Pee Wee Herman. We all have opinions Tom Lowe but you can learn something from everybody.
GlenGary gives good advice. The only thing to consider about storing food and supplies is that it limits your mobility. You have to pick an isolated spot where you will not attract attention so that you will not be forced to move. Even so, it would probably not be a bad idea to have a few separate caches in a 50 mile radius just in case you have to move or in case you have a fire or a theft.
I’ve had these thoughts of preparing and to some degree have acted on them but I’ve seen how quickly elaborate plans can be wiped out. I’ve sort of settled in to the “consider the lily” aproach. I have enough for a while and just a pocketful of hard currency but plan to deal with situations as they come along and hope for the best.
You might want to consider some medical supplies as well, gardening seeds and a few excess toiletries like soap, toothpaste, razorblades and so on. A few years without them and they would be valuable trading commodities. It would be nice to have your wife smell good once in awhile.
Neil
Oct 14, 2007
Nice to hear from you Bob, but I don’t see any posts disputing my claims.
Glen isn’t it important to see that this scenario never happens? Shouldn’t we identify the cause and fight against it? I don’t think it is too late to stop this from happening.
The starving children bit may work on some people, but those who bore the children need to take responsibility for them or gosh, not have them!? This is exactly the point I am trying to make. Where does this responsibility caring for children begin?? (shock!) With the parents perhaps!
What ever the government susidizes the government encourages. If it subsidezes single parents, poverty, lazyness this is what we get. If it gives tax breaks to business so they can hire more people spend more on advertising expand their business, they will get more revenue from employed people and more profit. Yes, to you bleeding hearts out there it may seem cruel, but the truth is sometimes hard to hear and for some people hard to understand but the truth is alway constant, it cannot be refuted.
One of my favorite saying is “Necessity is the mother of invention” Meaning if there is no food on the table and there are plenty of jobs, then most people will get a job. Some will resort to stealing, and hopefully they will go to jail if they do. If there is a gov’t program they will probably choose to be lazy and let the gov’t pay for everything. The gov’t being the tax payer.
The problem happens when government comes in and tries to “help”. More problems are created. Just like in my last post explaining what would happen if we had socialized medicine, more problems are created. Just like social security, there is no money invested, the gov’t just borrows it and never pays it back. Just like welfare, there is no measurement on if a program works or not, no definition of success, just more and more poverty. We arn’t helping anyone but the powerful get more powerful. They are doing it on the backs of the poor where we think it is doing good.
Another favorite quote: “We are so sorry that we have not succeeded in solving all of your problems. The solutions we have found only serve to raise a whole new set of problems. We are confused as ever, but we are confused on a higher level and about more important things!”
Those who want to help are just interested in power. The more money they can be in control of the more powerful you are. They are not compasionate, they just want you to think they are. This is way to get you to give up you freedom.
No gov’t program has ever worked! Please name a program that has started and succeeded and then ended because we didnt need it any more! It doesn’t exist!
GlenGary
Oct 14, 2007
To get on with this I have everything from laundry detergent to precious
metals to cash and recently felt a need to pull the cash from the bank
thinking that if it hits the fan banks will cancel debit and credit
cards in a heart beat and may not be able to service but a few
customers thinking maybe 5% at most. It is a real risk.
I live out in the country on a very hilly rocky type area
(cliff-like), a real ankle turner heavily brambled as well
surrounded by woods on a dead end road. Only one way in unless one
wants to hike nasty terrain and one way out. We are 18 miles
from any good sized town and five miles from a town of about
900 people. Most folks have no clue there are a few houses up
in these hills. The interstate is just a few miles over the hill
but you’d need ropes and climbing equipment to scale the cutout
rock face…the nearest ramp is five miles away. Getting in
sneaky would be a problem and if one sets a few traps a bigger
problem.
We have had instances of power outages for 4-5 days in 0 to
15 degree weather and it hasn’t driven us out. I’m the type
that won’t leave unless carried out feet first. I don’t scare
too easy and if I have all I need there is little to be gained
by venturing out with people which could prove to be the worst
sort of danger. Free movement unmolested might very difficult.
A home is easier to defend than a vehicle in open territory.
A few booby traps and my dogs plus guns and it is safer than
moving around especially when I know the terrain in the dark.
I also have a night vision scope plus a night vision monocular.
I will say this. If you put things away DO NOT tell your neighbors
or friends unless you can afford to feed them too. What is in
the backroom of my basement is under lock and key and only one other
person knows it is there.
Survival is a personal thing that everyone needs to
do for themselves and forward thinking is the key to any
success.
After seeing Katrina, if folks think that our government could
help them they are sadly mistaken for they have neither the
goods or manpower to do much of anything. It will be a zoo.
Bob
Oct 15, 2007
To Neil: I agree. You can’t help people that aren’t able to help themselves. When you try, you just make things worse. Is it too late to change things? I think so( I talked about it earlier with a guy named Erik), but I don’t like thinking that way and would support anybody that had a realistic solution. Personally, I can’t think of a way out of this mess that isn’t going to end up in chaos.
To GlenGary: Holy crap! You are pushing the envelope of genius! You seem to have considered everything. From the description of your place the only things I can think of to worry about are water supply, earthquake, fire and disease. You’ve probably planned for those too, just didn’t mention it. I hope you’re close with your family because they can really complicate things.
Disease and earthquake would be the bad ones because the government would be rounding people up and bringing them in to shelters and treatment centers for “their own good”. If you hide, they tear your house apart. If you fight them, they’ll do you in. If you go along, you kiss your years of planning goodbye. That’s actually the consideration that pushed the need for mobility to the top of my ideas list. I’m painfully aware of the fact that most of the traveling will have to be on foot and off the beaten paths. Some kind of pack animal would be good, dogs would be better than horses for a lot of reasons. They eat less and just about anything plus it would be easier to get them in a little boat if you had to.
This is all crazy talk and I hope it never comes to this, but it easily could. I hope things hold together for a few more years.
GlenGary
Oct 15, 2007
I was 49 when I retired 5 years ago and this gave me a ton
of time to think and plan.
I have a small spring that runs through my property plus I’m on
a 500′ deep well. As for the Army gathering folks up… there
wasn’t much Army when it came to Katrina. They had to scour 6
states literally and if enough folks resist it could get interesting.
If it does I’ll pack up and head deeper into the hills. In my
county on Sat and Sun mornings you can hear full automatic gun fire
so you know we have a different breed around here. Constitutionalists
is the nice word for it. These folks won’t be easy. It could
get messy.
The guy nearest me has that mentality and so do a few others
nearby who belong to a loose hobby army fatigues and all. I used
to think they were crazy. Now maybe not. Some are Vets.
By the way, gold is near $756 tonite and silver a few cents shy of $14
while the dollar buys 97 cents of a Canadian Dollar.
I told my wife I pray that nothing horrible happens as it scares
the crap out of any sane person. I’d rather eat my supplies
after nothing happened–No loss there and guns are still good
to get deer every year. But I like insurance and doing nothing
also scares the crap out of me.
I’m praying Central Bankers will just begin to back all the FIAT
in the systems with some gold or silver before everything falls
clean apart. If they do that we will still suffer some, but it
might not be deadly. Where is Volker when you need him to defend
the dollar?
Erik
Oct 15, 2007
“In my county on Sat and Sun mornings you can hear full automatic gun fire so you know we have a different breed around here. Constitutionalists is the nice word for it. These folks won’t be easy. It could get messy.”
Where is this magical country? Around where I live (Chicago suburbs) if you hear gun shots in the morning one’s natural instinct is to call the police. It’s sad, but Illinois is one of the worst states in the Union when it comes to gun rights.
Hell I’m optimistic about the future. Bob knows that. I am not one stand around waiting for the sky to fall. I’m also 25 so you could say I’m young and don’t know better. I also know what people are capable of when in a pinch. The PTB know what humanity is capable of also when survival mode kicks in. So they scramble to keep the status quo.
I just believe with a little education more people can better prepare themselves for the ‘correction’ that is most likely coming. Even so I understand the stubbornness of people set in their ways. I tried to persuade family members to invest something in bullion with no avail. They think I’m kinda on the fringe, but I know what I am doing is prudent.
No one knows the future. And because of that we should look to the future optimistically. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst!
GlenGary
Oct 15, 2007
I live in the hills of Southern Ohio. These folks down here have
lost a lot over the past three decades and I’d have to say the
majority are struggling daily. In the early 80′s coal mining
pulled out and in the 80′s and 90′s steel mills either went under
or cut to very few jobs which impacted everything literally. So
what you have is a disenfranchised population of proud people that
are tired of the powers that be and the Feds empty promises.
There are gun clubs in the hills and I’m guessing a lot of Federal
licences for full autoweapons from what we hear. At times there are
fringe groups that still meet and many law enforcement folks
are a part of them in I’d say at least 10 counties I know of.
Western Pa by the lower Ohio counties, West Va, Kentucky hills would all
be a tough nut to crack. Pockets of folks that think alike.
As for bullion, I too tried to get folks interested from 2000 to
around 2004 and then I shut up. They think I’m nuts just like
I was nuts when I said attacking Iraq was beating a hornet’s
nest with a stick. This is the first time I’ve commented on
anything in three years. Waste of time and breath. Better things
to do than waste my energy on the deaf, dumb and blind. None
are so blind as they who will not see.
Gold hit into the $760′s today and silver hit $14.08 mid-day. The
pressure is mounting little by little day by day. It’s coming.
What “IT” is remains to be seen. But it is not good.
Neil
Oct 15, 2007
What is that saying “prepare for the worst hope for the best” I still have hope but unless something magical happens than we are probably in for a mess.
The big question is will it all happen a once like the great depression, or will it take some time. The slower it happens the better off it will be and hopefully the right people will try to control it somewhat. If it crashes we are in for a real mess of epic proportions.
The problem is what do you do. Do you keep on the run living in the woods off the land? Do you hide or prepare by purchasing land in the middle of nowhere and build a earth shelter with solar power. Will most people leave you alone or would you need to fence the place in?
I guess if it is far enough away from everything and you could only get there on foot than you probably would be safe. Would it be wise to get a group of like minded individuals together and live as a community?
I think this would attract too much attention and before you know it the new gov’t would be knocking down your door.
Where would you put your money? How would you get at it after the crash? I read that the best way is to have some of your investments in gold and silver coins and keep them in a safe box in your home. The foreign countries are not much better off with all their debt. Gold could go as high as $6000 per OZ.
How would you get around? I guess investing in electical motorcycle with solar pannels to charge it up. Or converting a pick up truck to solar. They would have to be that fast, what would be the hurry?? Would there be replacement batterys to purchase somewhere? Electric motors last a long time but eventually you would have to buy one. Tires for the truck etc.
Any one else have any ideas?
GlenGary
Oct 16, 2007
I think we are looking at a hyperinflation erosion. For instance, look at gasoline prices in the last three years and the percentage of inflation is double digit as it is with dairy prices-grain prices-meat prices and home energy costs are steepening as well. Add in healthcare costs to the mix and tax levies of all sorts or service reductions due to exhausted budgets. This is a slow painful process.
While prices continue to climb, jobs grow weaker and home values erode putting many folks top heavy on their loans preventing an unloading of no longer affordable homes and restricting refinancing or cash-out loans. Folks move to and exhaust savings and anything they can sell for cash as they struggle to stay afloat. At some point one by one folks go into financial failure pretty much as we see today as ARM’s readjust up, zero principal loan traps boost payments and home sales stagnate. Checkmate to those who did not think through their financial arrangements fully.
I note creditcard usage is up this year probably because home equity loans and refi’s are down. This to me means that folks are on the edge more and more.
The DOW may crash or not. The DOW may be irrelevant since foreign money is right now buying the DOW as well as companies big and small in America. I do not look at the DOW or NASDAQ as confirmation of an inflationary recession or crash but rather oil, gold, silver and other commodities that include food stuffs as well as jobs.
When one sees vacancies in malls and strip malls, pizza shops and restaurants, suntanning places and health clubs going under, landscapers seemingly disappearing as folks now do their own work, a store here, a store there gone… that cute little gift shop or salons gone plus other retailers fighting a price fight to the bottom… Gee, just like right now.
There is your confirmation of erosion. Step by step erosion.
What are folks doing about it right now? Crime is up in many cities and in small burgs as well. People are being more careful. People are cutting back in many areas. Vacations have become smaller and in many instances not at all. Boats, ATV’s, motorhomes and travel trailers are a dime a dozen on Ebay right now.
This is a slow insidious pinch whereby home budgets shrink as wages stay the same. We could have 100% employment and still all be poor due to a destroyed dollar. But that won’t happen that way. Jobs will disappear as well. I saw AOL laid off 2,000 today to join the ranks of construction workers, real estate folks and financial services folks already pink slipped.
Not everyone is buried in debt. Not everyone will lose their job and not everyone has no resources and this is not Apocalypse Now! It is the erosion and cleanout of things that should not be. Fake money, fake wealth and heavily leveraged accounts. It is the culmination of lies and denial.
There will be gas for those who can afford it and utilities for those who keep up and medicine for cash as well as food for money, labor or barter. In Argentina or Germany and other countries when currencies collapsed there were still those working, eating and keeping property. The survivors were the one’s who prepared and many survivors became filthy rich. That’s a fact.
-Mpney–Dig a hole, line it with mylar plastic and dump in charcoal and kitty litter-absorbs moisture that might slip through the mylar, get a waterproof PVC box or pipe, seal it, mark in your head where you did this and bury your cash-metals what ever. Seal it well.
Do Not Bury Too Deep as in the winter the ground will be like concrete to dig in.
Bob
Oct 16, 2007
When you bury stuff, take some quick measurements from landmarks that won’t move, like the corner of a permanent building or a protruding rock formation. Don’t use trees because people cut them down and dig out the stumps or sometimes they blow over or burn down. Things look really different when a tree is gone. I, uh,(ah hem..) know that from experience.
People are different today(I talked about that earlier) and I worry about social order when 2/3 of the people lose everything they have. It might progress slowly but I think that there will definitely be a tipping point. Government cash flow will almost dry up and there are so many people today who depend on government money to live. They will riot when the money dries up. There won’t be enough social stability to drive on the roads or buy and sell goods even if you have the means to do so. I don’t think it will be like the last depression.
I like this GlenGary guy. I can tell that you don’t just think and talk. You do and have done. 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration.
GlenGary
Oct 16, 2007
Well Bob I like you too but we have to stop meeting like this.(VBG)
I think that with some silver coins aimed at a few folks who
are at their nerves ends and stomach’s end one might buy enough
loyality to help protect the homestead if need be. If you have
some money or offer a meal or two I’m betting you can get a shotgun
to help out.
I had made the remark about lying low with supplies to minimize contact
as in what rover don’t see, rover can’t bite.
Then there is the shovel for digging nice holes to cover up that
stove-up or break ankles or put spikes in the holes-OUCH, the
200lb test fishing line strung at ankle height which can’t be
easily seen but trips folks making noise too. Hehehe, The
usual soup can alarms “What’s that on yonder hill I hear?”
Birds give great clues of approaching fun.
I can be a real pervert when I think of ways to screw folks up.
I don’t think city folks have any clue just how fun holes, snares,
trip lines and falling rocks and logs can be before they get shot
at. Hell, you can sit in a tree stand and folks walk right under
a person during hunting season. Last week a guy with a pot plant
walked under three stands and never saw us. I was tempted to yell
DROP IT and DON’T TURN AROUND! NOW RUN! Might have been some
good stuff,Eh?
I think that once a person shifts gears into protection mode and
starts viewing people as objects to overcome if need be then the
weak and the stupid are in trouble and the herd thins quickly.
I can only think of three neighbors nearby that wouldn’t flee
to a city thinking that was safer which makes it safer for us.
I think the whole thing is a play it by ear thing that will unfold
like the layers of an onion or a chess game. It’s a waiting game.
The longer we wait the more prepared we can be. And like I said,
if nothing happens that’s good too. Things won’t go to waste.
One has to know that if 75% of the population goes nuts in towns
they will take each other out over stupid stuff or the police or MPs
will get them. Panic is no mode of survivalism I know of. In the field
it is deadly to panic.
When dealing with any enemy it is easier when they come to you
on your ground to your plans and not the opposite. At that point
they are exposed, unsure of terrain and make mistakes… maybe
one will be too many. Afghanistan is a great study in what I am
saying and so is the history of the Vietnam War.
When you have to search to destroy on unfamiliar ground it sets
nerves on edge causing thinking errors that compound the longer
you are at it until you break down. Sleeping with one eye open
is not rest and being on the edge of fight or flight 24X7 leaves
one exhausted. Life is no movie. The laws of nature apply.
Those untrained would simply fly apart quickly.
The Attack Of The Bloated Fat People coming to a town near you!
My perverse sense of humor. “When Soccer Moms Attack!”
“Night Of The Entitlement Dead” “Flesh Eating Lawyers
And PHD’s!” Me thinks 40% of the country couldn’t huff it
up one hill around here much less fall in a hole and get
back up and face a 7.62. Ever see what hangs in Walmarts
these days? Too lazy to put a cart back and I should fear them?
Neil
Oct 16, 2007
I guess the option is be prepared for anything. It is not expensive to prepare ahead of time and come up with a game plan.
If it gets bad enough I guess the best thing to do is disappear for a while.
Go on some back packing trips and pick a desolated forest, get to know it well. Stock some hand tools and food rations gold, medical supplies, ammunition, solar pannels batterys and silver coins etc. and bury them in a water proof box(s). Perhaps even build a perch in a tree big enough to sleep on and water proof/bug proof. Take weekends and try it out. Take some survival courses to see what it is like to live off the land.
When things quiet back down again you can come back to civilization. If you have the means build a house out of solid concrete with a dirt roof. Like an earth berm house. When thing go crazy there will be vandalism so it needs to be as tough as possible. This is a structure you can come back to post crash and live comfortably. Also build it to run on a power connection or solar.
David
Oct 16, 2007
I have been thinking about these things for some time, and just came across this site. A good discussion, people, much more intelligent and thoughtful than most web debates.
Personally, I don’t think it’s possible to avert the coming crash. Perhaps, just perhaps, there will be an opportunity when things fall apart for new ideas and visions to be considered — and perhaps it will just collapse into resentment and violence. I agree that the entitlement culture is a major culprit, and it isn’t going to change easily. A lot of people are going to feel very pissed for quite a while — look at what happened in New Orleans, the violence and rioting, and that was in a situation where the rest of the country was able to come to the rescue, which won’t be the case in a general collapse.
I am deeply troubled by the thought of widespread social disorder. If it lasts more than a few weeks, I suspect that the damage done in terms of the loss of infrastructure and resources (not to mention the loss of life) will be massive. I am not “turned on” like the survivalists by thoughts of rugged individualism, defending the homestead with a trusty rifle, etc. And yet I don’t see an alternative.
Do people on this list think that there is any point to planning social transition possibilities — for example, how to get most of the people back working on the land, how to build lots of cheap houses quickly that they could live in out in the country where the work will be when all the office jobs dry up, etc.
GlenGary
Oct 17, 2007
On the earthen house point it’s a no go. I have $350,000 in my
place and I’d lose my shirt if I sold it-could sell it in this
market. I own most of it but I hate baths. I like it here and
feet first is how I leave. It cannot be seen until one is 400
500 yards away and it sits two miles off of a cow path that is
3/4′s of a mile from a two lane road that is steep hilly and
narrow-cliff one side, straight up cliffs and hills on the other
side. A true headache to walk and it is five miles to town, a very
small town.
The folks who live by the bridge 2.5 miles away- one must cross to get
to our road are the type that won’t leave either and most likely
would guard it. They sit on a cliff 100′ above it. Wide open quarter
mile sprint? Good Luck. Like I said before, one way up is the
same way down there is no other way.
Living in the woods. Get an Army manual. If your clothes get sweated in
and it is cold, your clothes can kill you. If you start a fire you attract
others. Having winter camped I can tell you at 25 degrees at night you will
want badly to sit damn near on top of a fire. At 15 degrees with a light breeze
you will hate it absolutely and your moods will swing and you will not think
straight after even a few days. Used up. If it hits zero or below you are going to
need so much food and fat that you better have a ton with you. Granola or Ration Bars
won’t keep your metabolism going.
I worked in the cold for 32 winters with many 16 hour shifts. You can eat like an
absolute pig and never gain an ounce because of the stress on your body. You will
burn calories just sitting down.
When I retired in 2002 I quickly ballooned from 220 at 6’3″ to 265 pounds because I
kept my working eating habits. Eating for bodily stress. Right now I’m back to 220 after
cutting what I eat and buying a bowflex.
When one talks woods they are not talking all warmth all year. It gets wet,it can
rain or snow nonstop for days which would put life at risk, dew is a
problem, snow, cold, I might add the bears are back in the Midwest now and
the population is growing..we have coyotes here and see some bear tracks.
Most forests are now Federal Lands so I don’t know how well that might be
tolerated. One forest fire and they might start shooting squatters.
How about you migrate to a port city. Grab provisions and steal some rich
guy’s sailboat? In Lauderdale they are parked all over the place and they might
not miss one until you hit Freeport.
Bob
Oct 17, 2007
You described the winter conditions pretty good. I’m old fashioned and load up with a few layers of wool. It can be soaking wet and it still holds your warmth. I don’t know if you can get them where you are but those little blue Bama booties are amazing too. They are a liner for your boots.
You forgot to mention something about the bush in the summertime. Bugs. I read stories in books about the old miners in Washington and BC. They said the bugs would kill a tied horse overnight. I’ve never seen them that bad but they can make you pretty miserable.
GlenGary
Oct 17, 2007
The reason why I’m staying put is reasons of strength. I know the land
and conditions, who belongs and who does not. I have everything I
need and then some.
The amount of food, supplies and ammo one would need to survive
two months in the forest would require a pack animal. Humans need
varied diets to survive and not get weak and sick like our society
is today. (Haven’t seen an MD in 15 years) Diet is everything when
stress hits especially.
You think our over-medicated junk food driven people will last all
that long? Whole foods, whole grains how to eat from scratch
no boxes-bags-trays of ready mixes or ready made foods most folks
have no clue. Under fire is no time to learn.
I can feed a family of four with 15 cents worth of cornmeal or
make Ezekeil bread-almost pure protein from a seven grain mix
that provides nearly all you need. Hard to do it in the woods.
My point to the others was that a well fed person not wanting
for heat, drink, food has no worries other than defense and is
in far better shape to survive than a person trying to grapple
with all of those things that wear one down.
I have a 12 course basement that is 60X40 with a 14X14 root
cellar no windows to see in. At 10 degrees outside it is still
well above freezing-round 45-50 anyway. With a wood stove it gets almost hot.
Raid the upstairs you get nothing. Open the door you get shot.
Very simple. Burn the place you still get nothing.
I put a trap door with stairs to a closet in one corner of the basement
thinking “flanking position”. What the heck it was a saturday
fun project way too cool. Shoot’em in the back!
I’m a problems person and took care of problems all my life at work.
It’s what I like doing. Brain storming and then trying out what I come
up with. I’m also a student of history and tactics and my library is
full of military type books I’ve read. A lot of How To’s on making
stuff. You’d be surprised what you can do with household items.
Ever build a spud gun? Great launchers for things. The poor man’s
bazooka. Why limit yourself to a meager time long before you need to?
It’s all up to the God’s when or what happens. We all know that.
But at 54 there is no way I’m going anywhere. This is my Fort Apache
and that’s that.
GlenGary
Oct 18, 2007
For all that we have discussed I’m betting we have until after next summer unless the US Congress votes to impose 20% Tariffs this fall on all Chinese goods at which point the Chinese will no doubt dump $1.3 trillion in our notes straight into the market causing a huge devaluation of our dollar and an immediate depression. A full body blow because a 20% tariff is a declaration of war.
The Euro Zone has overtaken America as China’s biggest market so they are not as apt to take this sort of move in stride. They do hold the upper hand here and have threatened to dump bonds if we tariff their goods. Pray we don’t because it is suicide.
You simply don’t play chicken with a nation that can take you out without mobilizing one soldier or even loading one gun. Are we THAT stupid?
Time will tell. Good Luck To All.
Neil
Oct 18, 2007
There are too many people making too much money the way things are now. Everyone that is making money and is powerful are going to prop this up as long as possible. They are going to do everything in their power to keep this going, including selling out our borders, selling out on Iraq and Iran and by trying to get as many people dependent on them as possible..socialized medicine.
I think there is some time yet before it all collapses. I think real estate will come back, the dollar will come back and everything will look hunky dory and then the ceiling will come crashing in on us.
If this happens it will be really bad. We will probably have a series small corrections over the next 10 to 20 years, if that long.
GlenGary
Oct 18, 2007
In August Asia, Saudi Arabia, Japan and China dumped a net $163 Bn of our bonds into the market. The IMF warned that the dollar was still overvalued and likely to face “some depreciation in the medium term”.
In September I have no idea what the damage was as I have yet to see the figures. Without outside financing of our daily national deficit and extra money for real estate loans from the bond market, mortgage rates will rise and this will cap any demand that is out there plus push ARM’s even higher.
In October to about March we will see another huge round of defaults as ARM’s adjust higher calculated on interest jumps of the last year. This is far from over. We have not seen the extent of commercial loan damages yet for things like strip malls and other malls that are shrinking in most states. Unrented space equals defaults. Things are shrinking out there.
With a 59 year low in the United States of surplus grain and the growing use of corn for ethanol, this forces inflation onto food and onto livestock products. We are about to get a taste of 1970′s style food price inflation.
Now factor in oil at what looks like $90 to possibly $120 by spring plus another winter of high natural gas prices. The American budget cannot sustain high energy prices and continue to spend. Last year it took it’s toll and by spring we get another round.
What is the tipping point for an economy that was heavily dependent on cheap credit, cheap food, cheap energy and highly dependent on service related business?
What you are looking at is the perfect storm. If the Fed lowers interest rates there will be few bond buyers and this move will fuel inflation and hurt the dollar. If the Fed raises interest rates to support the dollar, draw in new capital and defeat inflation they kill consumerism and risk a deflationary recession.
If they do nothing which never seems to be an option, a recession is still in the cards as the market determines how our imbalances will settle out.
Right now we are in a full bull commodities run where everything from corn to cattle futures to gold, silver, copper, zinc-your industrial metals just keep pushing higher increasing costs.
While a cheap dollar might help manufacturers in the US on one end, it does not help them in buying commodities or raw materials or imports of parts as a weak dollar buys less and less. Coupled with higher energy prices and transportation costs the squeeze on profits will be a killer.
We are between a rock and a hard place and there are no magic wands out there for this election season. The politicians cannot tell OPEC what to charge for oil or control natural gas prices, nor can they force our bonds on unwilling countries, stem the demand for grains, cap the prices on base metals or cattle and hog futures, tell Turkey not to attack Kurdistan and mess up their oil shipments, shut Bush the heck up from causing market stress in energy nor unwind high consumer debt, or breath new life into the real estate bubble when we are net -2% for a national savings rate. I think broke is broke.
You need to look at where we are again.
Bob
Oct 18, 2007
Well put. I am absolutely amazed at how long they have kept this going. There should have been a depression in the 80′s but the money wizards kept figuring out ways to head it off. They only set us up for something that will be twenty times worse but at this point I think what they’ve done is almost in the class of fine art. They are not stupid, just short sighted, greedy and totally without scruples. If there is any justice, they will go down with the ship.
GlenGary
Oct 19, 2007
My wife is extremely adverse and gets terse when I try to discuss
her retirement plan as she has it in what is called Guaranteed
Payout 100% safe. I have mine in ALL metals. Anyway, after a short
scrap I managed to get her password to look at her account.
I nearly had a stroke… I just sat there staring and thinking
WIPEOUT on the horizon! These SMART folks had put that money in
Mortgage Backed Securities/Collaterialized Mortgages of the type
now doing nose dives, and short term credit which is creditcards.
All I know is that Bubba Fund cannot payout what ends up South of
The Border so to speak. Add in a weak dollar and POP! It’s over.
I moved the whole blasted thing to 50% Vanguard International
Indexed Funds (ETF) which kills the weak dollar worry and it is the
average of three stock exchange areas that are not here and 50%
Janus 20 since they are aggressive in allocation.
I think the worst one can do is have more than 20-25% in American
issues right now or any exposure to American credit.
I couldn’t believe that a fund who says they guarantee the payout
would continue to expose themselves to our messed up credit system.
And some folks call me stupid….
Duane
Oct 20, 2007
Here is the frame of mind to be in. It is hard to think this way because we are all caught up in the whirlwind of the US dollar. The frame of mind I am referring to is the following: Whatever pays off in US dollars is a loss.
These are things such as retirement, stocks, bonds and any investment that yeilds a US dollar. If one know what to trade in so each individual can protect there wealth then that is what will make the individual diving in the dumpster for the next meal opposed to the individual that has a square meal. This is the way we should start thinking. Make that huge profit but liquidate it into something that is not destined to become worthless.
GlenGary
Oct 21, 2007
Good Evening,
I do not actually think that we are looking at a total collapse
of the US Dollar. I think we are looking at an implosion of value
whereby the dollar slides down to around 30-40 cents on the Looney
(Canadian Dollar) for several reasons. One I think the IMF would
prevent it as this is in no one’s best interests as the US is still
27% of the world’s economy.
Secondly, all mortgages in US $$ would be uncollectable as well as
any other loan. The papers state payable in US Dollars. No Dollars
No Debt. We owe most of these debts to other countries so they could
not collect therefore I doubt the IMF and the Central Bankers would
allow a total collapse.
I put a pretty tidy sum in the Vanguard Total International Stock Index
(VGTSX)which is the European Stock Index (VEURX), the Pacific Stock Index
(VPACX), and the Emerging Markets Stock Index (VEIEX)all rolled into one.
Your dollars go out US and are converted to the currency of those markets
and when they come back must be converted to US currency. If at that time
US Currency is say 40% below the point where it went out then it would return
40% more in dollars plus or minus gains or losses. This was about the only option
left for my wife’s retirement since her money is in a program. Cashing out would
present me with a huge tax bill.
Vanguard was 60% and 40% went to Janus Twenty Fund which is a closed fund except to
institutional investors that basically hold open shares for a group. That fund is 48%
to 49% foreign investment right now.
Since I monitor my investments daily and do a ton of research weekly and have for
years, I do not feel too unsafe as I can bail at will. It has been my experience
that rewards go to risk takers and those too scared to move get screwed every time.
As for my retirement I am 97% invested in physical metals in bars, rounds
and coins and Pedigreed Coins with 3% of the money in cash should I decide I
might want a vehicle or something.
With better than 18 months of food on hand I doubt I’ll be dumpster diving
any time soon. 18 months buys a lot of time.
The problem I think we are looking at is erosion of the dollar until most Ma
and Pa’s out there can barely buy basics and still pay the mortgage or rent.
There will still be our farmers-cattlemen selling exports and therefore chemical companies
working to make fertilizers,feeds and insecticides and farm supply and machinery. There
will still be food and food distribution, trucking, and all of their services. I’m
thinking the economy shrinks and we are looking at a long period of dwindling
lifestyles whereby most folks have less, do less. Two classes that are big and
one muted in size. The Rich, the huge class of poor and a muted middleclass.
Some folks are saying complete collapse. Some are saying recession. Others say Depression.
I think it will be something inbetween with high inflation-monetary debasement. Nature rarely
gives us what the choir is singing.
Until and unless everyone dumps all of our bonds quickly in a shocking event we have time.
Who wins if bonds are dumped? The holders of them could kill themselves by devaluing them
rapidly since they would get nothing for them.
Betting this is a slow process.
Agantyr
Oct 21, 2007
Hey all,
I’ve been researching the energy, climate, and economic uncertainties that lay ahead for about 2 months now when I heard about Peak Oil. I’ve gotta say, it’s rare to find a decent forum discussion. Nice job guys.
I think I’ve learned more in the last 2 months than I ever did from all my years of school combined. (I’m a freshman in college now.) They don’t teach us shit in public schools. It’s pure indoctrination I tell ya, but that’s another story. Moving on.
I wonder what I should do. I wanna ask for some advice.
Here’s my situation:
I’m only 19 years old, male.
I have 4 siblings: 3 boys, 1 girl, all ranging from 12 years old to 18. Two parents, married, all in one roof. We are by no means rich but my dad seems to have a good amount of money from trading stocks and being smart with his budget. My mom is a hard working teacher and mother of 5… so I’d say our family does real well.
Live in a suburb of Chicago.
Have only just stared a real education with my trusty internet and library (like I said before, schools never taught me shit) recently. I’ve studied, as an autodidact for the most part, philosophy, religion, cultures, some history, political sciences, and I then learned about the coming crisis just 2 months ago. Despite the fact that my avid reading in my spare time makes me a better person and miraculously lead to my discovery of all this (I’m so grateful of the knowledge I have), it does not get me a degree. At this point my “plan” is to become a history teacher at a local high school… probably by the time I’m 25 or so. But that’s 6 years from now. Heck, in 2 years I could change my mind and head out to become a farmer. Who knows?
I still live with my parents, but I MIGHT move in with a friend sometime soon. Don’t worry – I’m not talking about paying high rent in some apartment. I mean moving into his parents’ house with him… well, sort of… their un-used little house in their backyard.
Anyways, I go to a local community college. I also work part-time at my city’s Park District… I’ve gotten some decent experience in a number of trades – babysitting, child day-care, summer-camp counselor, usher and stage crew for fine arts productions (plays, concerts, etc.), basic suburban landscaping, basic suburban irrigation for large soccer fields, basic knowledge of carpentry, electrical, plumbing… building maintenance (like fixing air conditioners, ventilation systems, exit lights, etc.)… also had a job for a few months as a telemarketer, so I know how to treat public real well (which SUCKS), worked in a factory for a few months making plastic (HATED that fucking job!!!)…
I’m also an artist (to some degree)… have (some) talent in painting and drawing… I love stories and video games, I’m real imaginative… love (good) music…
At this point I’m still assessing the whole situation… on a world level, national level, and local level, then making goals and plans over the next year or so… keep them flexible… and then slowly prepare for it all. Tell my loved ones about it all, etc.
I’m wondering… what should I do?
I know a guy from my work who has a piece of 10 acres of woods up north of Green Bay, Wisconsin… I think his property is actually in Michigan. One of the two states, not sure. Anyways… would it be wise to “get to know him a bit more” and work out a deal with him? Even if it would be good for me to do that… he’s a pretty cool and crafty old guy… he’s a real good guy and all… but he’s not sophisticated by any means and knows nothing about the coming problems. It’d take a miracle for me to actually teach him. I’m wondering if I should make a deal with a farmer or woodsman somewhere. You know, like help him/them out… become an apprentice, etc.
I know, or at least I believe with optimism, that governments, communities, and people will try to work together during all this… but I REALLY don’t want to be a suburbanite wage-slave… just so I can have some MTV and CNN, a microwave, and refrigerator… if things get real bad.
Besides, most country folk may be stereotyped (from my experiences and world-view) as “hicks” and “God-fearing” and “dumb”, but they sure seem to be more real to me than the masses of fake people in the suburbs here:
All the old guys enjoying their retirements, not giving two shits about the youth (we have NO fucking community here, it SUCKS… once we graduate high school (that place was bad enough, but at least it was some sort of community), there’s nothing for us to do. We have a shopping mall and if we’re not mindlessly consuming… we’re “loitering” and are kicked out. It really sucks – this whole corporate-consumer suburbanite monoculture… ah well at least I get to escape from it. All the mid-aged residents here are just living out mediocre, vapid lives… keepin’ up with the Jones’, keepin’ their lawns nice and trim and green, constantly building new additions on their houses… Zzz…
Anyways… gotta stay on track (sorry I’m kind of writing form a stream-of-consciousness here, my bad):
I’m going to continue slowly pursuing that bachelor’s degree so I can teach. Along the way I’m going to work different jobs to just get money and experience in different things… make different connections. All the while I’m of course going to continue to research the coming problems and assess my situation, and just learn other things. If things stay looking as bad as they look now, or get worse, I’ll spend more time preparing and learning the skills and talents I need… set priorities, etc.
It sounds good to me, but is there anything I should do? You all seem MUCH older than I (no offense, hehe) and surely you must have some advice. Should I make connections to people, especially to rural folk? What is a good thing to do with money? etc. etc.
THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob
Oct 21, 2007
Well Agantyr, you don’t sound stupid and you have a desire to learn things so that’s a good start. What’s my advice?
Get a job. I mean a real job where you sweat and end up real tired at the end of the day, and keep that job for a year or so. You’ll be amazed what you’ll learn about yourself and others from that experience. It won’t be wasted time. Then do what you want.
Be decent to people, especially women and kids and old people.
Try not to swear too much. It may sound stupid but it wears down your soul. I learned that the hard way. Still learning, in fact.
Don’t under estimate people. That old guy with the property probably has a lot more knowhow than you think. Mark Twain had a line; ” I left home when I was eighteen, convinced that my father was the dumbest man in the whole world. Didn’t see him again until I was twenty-one and I was amazed at what the old man had learned in just a few short years.”
Have some fun while you can, life goes by quick.
GlenGary would probably be a better financial advisor than myself, so I’ll turn it over to him if he has the desire.
Good luck, kid.
GlenGary
Oct 22, 2007
My father was an accountant and my mother was an Admissions Counselor
and they both had advanced degrees as do both of my siblings. I on the
other hand at 17 didn’t buy into I guess what the folks wanted for me
and left home at 17 running away to another state-Tennessee where I
became part of a construction crew working 12 hours a day 6 days a
week out in the country. Those folks were straight out of the mountains
of Arkansas and Tn and most had not much more than a 6th or 7th grade
education. But they were shrewd survivors that could build anything out
of anything it seemed and fix anything that passed before them.
Honest and very hard working people very loyal to family.
They took me in immediately..a northerner which says a lot and showed
me things well beyond the job and included me in things. They taught me
what my parents never could and that was personal industry and confidence
in what I do and to never let anything beat me. “Find another way! Find
another way!” was what the best advice was. You want something and it
doesn’t come then find another way until you get it.
I moved north at 19 and became a steelworker for 30 years and a landlord
and a reposessed home rehab person, buy and sell.At 42 I went to college
still working though which was fun-Ahem!
to prove to myself I could. Then I retired at 49 figuring enough is enough.
I was worn out physically-burnt out mentally.
The thing here is to go where your heart leads you and not where folks or
peers expect you to go as they might see things from a different perspective.
You sound like you want something more in your life and I’d go look for it
before life traps you into what you really don’t want.
There is book learning and there is learning by doing and learning
through contact with others. Youth is where curiosity takes root and
curiosity is the life blood of passion for life. Passion makes life
worth it and interesting. The risks we take are what we remember most.
From where I sit, I never want to be the old fart in the rocking chair
looking back over 80 years thinking to myself “I wish I would’a” over
many things.
Go explore what you are curious about and leave the safety of things
to those with little imagination and a basket full of underlying fears
that are merely pretending they know exactly where life will
put them. They know not.
Those who seemed most together in my youth I found later to be least
together… heck, that holds true today with folks my own age.
We all second guess ourselves. But there is no sense making a
career of it.
Agantyr
Oct 22, 2007
Thank you both, Bob and GlenGary.
I do indeed have a deep passion for life, learning, and living dangerously (NOT stupidly). I’ve sacrificed a many hour of what would have been idle time for personal wisdom – whether it was reading the old works of philosophy or literature, whether it was walking around and sitting and thinking and making observations, whether it was going through tough relationships with people and learning about how interesting we humans are, or just plain experience in life – I’m constantly growing. I LOVE the concept of growth, of “becoming”… and have a strong sense of adventure (sometimes it gets in my way, heh).
I apologize for my anger (swearing) and cynicism. I am working at converting it into positive enthusiasm and will power (of course still keeping a healthy serving of cynicism – it’s fun anyways!).
I happen to know some Mark Twain myself, him being one of my favorites from American literature (isn’t he also the most quoted?)… and I have to say that quote you gave is very true. I remember reading it about a year ago and sayin’ “My God, this man [Twain] must KNOW me!” – but before I go on into an auto-biography here and waste everyone’s time, I should be on my way…
Thanks again for the advice and encouragement… and good luck to the both of ya.
Bob
Oct 22, 2007
One thing there, GlenGary. Life doesn’t trap us, we just lose the desire to experience change and fear starting over from scratch. We get tired, I guess you would say. Freedom is a state of mind.
GlenGary
Oct 22, 2007
Bob,
I stated that poorly. I was thinking that as young folks sometimes
we fall in love, get married or committ to things that clearly do
an about face on what or where we had planned to go and later regret
going off course. I did such a thing at 21 and it took me until
35 to get back to myself.(No kids involved.) I was living for other people completely
and it didn’t help them or me. We all became miserable.
I figured at 35 I could start 21 all over again and refine my aim
and if someone came along that fit seemlessly into that Well heck OK!
If not, then so be it. As it turned out I got lucky.
I think Trump said it best. Never bet the farm. Never bet what you
cannot afford to lose. He was talking about money, yet that can be
easily applied to jobs and relationships.
As for the young man being angry. Anger is a form of passion and
I’ve used anger to get a lot accomplished in my life. There is
nothing wrong with anger if one uses it positively. It just shows
you are alive and engaged. It is when one hits apathy that they need
to apologize for something. Apathy is a flat liner.
GlenGary
Batman
Nov 07, 2007
With the dollar now plummeting and oil raising beyond $100 per barrel, the national debt nearing 10 trillion! Add the entitlements make it around 55 Trillion, 55 TRILLION FOLKS! No country on earth can repay that let alone the current and counting. This is beyond any hope..
Many of you have said I saving doing what is the correct way, but that is useless. The US dollar is rapidly becoming worthless and the United States will suffer total economic collapse, it is inevitable. Call a spade a spade our corrupt government and elected officials are all inept idiots and don;t they know they are cutting their own throats along with the citizens of this country?
I don’t know what to say we as a nation will no longer exist as we did before. Look at the numbers, the shear reality of this massive national debt and a war mongering President Bush who seems hell bent on starting World War III with an attack on Iran. Damned he does and damned if he don’t, catch 22, US is behind the 8-ball. It is about oil folks, controlling this because we are 100% dependent upon it. The United States, once a beacon to the free world is now on the brink of total economic collapse with our form of cut throat capitalism.
And it’s people like sheep following its leaders off the cliff.
Wiseman
Nov 07, 2007
Batman,
I agree, the debt figures and the federal deficit are real and climbing. Even if you combine all of world’s debt it does not even come close to what the US needs to payoff. There is no way. Many scholars and government officials also have stated we are beyond any hope from an economic collapse. Even if we eliminate entitlements we only prolonging the inevitable with our continued spending. The 10 Trillion is staggering enough.
WOW – what stupidity, a shame..
GlenGary
Nov 07, 2007
I will repeat myself here. Anyone holding gold and or silver
could end up wealthy beyond their wildest dreams. In Germany during their
collapse, a single gold coin bought a hotel in one instance that
comes to mind. When paper is worthless the metals scream.
The cool thing is, your bills like mortgages say on the papers
DOLLARS, so you owe them DOLLARS whether the paper is worth anything
or not. If say an ounce of silver converts to 1000 paper dollars,
instead of the $15.60 of today, you’d be in great shape if you had
a few thousand ounces.
There will always be money of some type. Metals is what I bet the
farm on.
Ima Dude
Nov 07, 2007
I can’t help but wonder what would be the situation right now, if during the first engineered oil crisis in this country during the 70s we all had implemented carburetors which allow our vehicles to attain 40 to 60 miles per gallon.
These mechanisms have existed for better than forty years. Yet not only is America driving pork hog cow butt ugly monster trucks, but the spouses of the midwesterners who buy them are wives and children who match. And get 10 mpg.
I believe we are capable of tinkering, but the tools with which we tinker have been taken off the table. This has been the method by which our US society has been manipulated downwardly. We have always been able to out think the machine, but the machine got an international ego, and wants us to stop competing, or at best, stop trying to exist.
I do not foresee a beautiful new age of Americans rediscovering our carburetors, in time to sustain Christmas shopping rushes. Yet I do foresee a system of continued technological manipulations whereby Americans collectively forget how to turn a wrench, weigh a balance and note differences, look down the barrel of a microscope, and forget how to imagine efficiency. Not that these things are connected, but I think you read my drift.
We drift collectively, like partygoing teenagers, closer and closer to the waterfall going over the cliff into the rocks. Our boat is an insulated society where we forget just how to simply prepare food, much less understand raw goods transport. Our collective intelligence is that of the base media seen on the electric box every day. Just where they want us to be.
And that box, altho now becoming an electric keyboard, still does not put those humans comprising our society into anything resembling a laboratory, simply because, our Homeland Security is afraid we might discover pyrotechnics.
Therefore, we say goodbye to the Popular Mechanics generation, who truly were blood kin to the great inventors. And those great ones of the past, were the ones who solved basic issues like transportation, chemistry, and aerospace, and were denied further developemental authority by the powers which suppress inquisitive minds and technologies, which can give us back 60 to 80 mpg carburetors…
The circle of life has been broken, the natural process of test/implement/test/improve/manufacture/market, it has all been discomboobulated by the monopolistic corporate cabals which collectively make up the oil and transportation industries.
So where do we stand? Not on much firmer footing than we did in 1970s era petrochemical times. And that, sadly, is just about right where the Corporate US wants us.
Yet this time around, without industries to support our citizens, the price of gas, the cost of transporting those Thanksgiving turkeys and Christmas hams, and even the common midwesterner from hoping to ever see that biofuels plant open up out there in his prarie ag town, all of these manipulations are going to put an end to cheap eggnog.
Its not about consuming responsibly or American Imperialism abroad likened to Roman conquerors, its about the laboratory of life, and us being disconnected from our entry into it. False prophets aside, Bob Dylan said it and Woody and Willie sang it too, the answer is blowing in the wind. And riding the tops of the waves. And dawning each day at the crack of.
The very fundamental tinkering of our mankind here in the USA has been crassly destroyed by the industrialists,and the mega merger mentality of 400times larger salaried CEO’s.
So hey, can you distill a volatile fuel from any source within arms reach? Can you manufacture nano dot technology and apply it to solar power to realise huge efficiency gains over silicon wafer technology? Can you lay up a laminate out of fibers and resins and ultralight cores to build a featherlite chassis to put an engine in? Can you rebuild the fire ravaged pseudo Mediterranean cul de sacs of my native San Diego with fireproof rammed earth technology instead of the lobbyist controlled 2×4 building industry? Can you travel across the globe, look into the eyes of a stranger, bow, and say at least a few words of polite speech to show respect? Can you do anything to engineer our way out of this coming financial super collapse?
Because if all you can do is type and spout oh so brilliant oratory from the keyboard of your private domaine, then to me, you are just part of a downwardly and escalating problem, which I call the Dumbed Down America.
And dont think that if you do any of these things, the Men In Black, or Grey, or hiding behind the grassy knoll are not going to destroy you before you bring it to market. Hey, like my nuke weapon maintaining buddy told me thirty years ago, “Just because you’re paranoid does’nt mean they are’nt watching you.” He smoked herb and got himself thrown out of the service so he wouldn’t have to be part of it all anymore.
Since then, the men who profess to run America have shown to me that they are exactly like who we thought them to be, back when it was the summer of ’69, and California still had some beach front property, if you could afford the thirty five thousand dollar price tag. Those money and power and elitist grubbing bastards are deserving of being in the targets of the weapons they sell internationally.
The same Republicans who maintain that a blue sports jacket, a power tie, and a yacht club membership are prerequisites to being Right Stuff guys, along with a trophy wife, well, blather, I had all that stuff and I dumpstered it all.
I woke up to find that, over and throughout the last fifty years, well..’There’s somethin’ happenin’ here, what it is ain’t exactly clear, there’s a man with a gun over there, a tellin me, I got to beware, I think it’s time we STOP, Children, what’s that sound? Everybody LOOK what’s going down…”
Thanks for listening. I have to go face the coming doom of another day under martial law in the USA.
Oh, wait, it’s not here yet?
I must have jumped ahead six months in this blog.
GlenGary
Nov 07, 2007
I fix my appliances myself, install things on the house, paint it,
fix plumbing, fix my mowers etc, detail my own vehicles and do
brakes and things like that. I clean my own carpet and drapes.. in
short, I do not call for help because if I can do an equal or better
job for less then I will and put the cash savings to something else.
I also cook from scratch to stay healthy and won’t eat processed foods or
things that I cannot read the label with stuff like mogosomo-pico-crap.. you
know-chemical or fake food. I don’t do ANY fast food and eat out rarely simply
because if I don’t know what’s in it, I won’t eat it. At 54 I haven’t seen an
MD in 15 years which I attribute to my eating habits.
I get a kick out of my neighbors with investment advisors that lose them
money or get poor results, landscapers overcharge them, services rape them,
the buy or lease brand new cars instead of let 18 months go by giving the 40%
hit to some other dumb fool.
They use rented log splitters when the exercise you get from physical labor keeps
you healthy and strong. Hire-hire-hire-/rent/rent/rent.. buy buy buy. Stupidity, Sloth,
Lazy.
I do my own everything because I had a tough time 25-30 years ago and that will NEVER
happen again. Also, it helped me retire at 49 instead of a worn out used up old age. I
like not going to work and having enough to keep it that way.
I live in a neighborhood-rural where the homes are $300,000 Up and these folks treat me
like I’m stupid yet I don’t work and they do. Nearly six years retired and I’m the dumb one?
Twisted world we live in where less is more because we says so.
Folks across the way from me everyone thought was wealthy and wonderful. The Repo man came
first for the BMW, then the Excursion, then the house. Bye Bye Folks… This world is about
How Things Look—Not How Things Are. The whole damned country is that way.
Nothing Down-No Pay For Five Years, etc etc etc. I know that home equity one does NOT SELL!
I know that saving and investing is safety and that saving money is smart and looking pretty
when you have zero wealth is worthless. Money Buys Options and Time. Debt buys sorrow and loss.
This country IS crashing from debt-pure debt. I don’t plan to go with it at all. For each tic
down of the dollar I make money. Yesterday it was $4987 in one day. Last week it was $7249. In the last
few years-320% plus. Now while I shave twice a week, drive seven year old vehicles much to my
neighbors dismay, I will be here in 20 years. They mostly will not.
When the tide goes out we then see all who were swimming naked.
Got to go cut down a tree. Later Folks,
Bob
Nov 07, 2007
Ha! I got a kick out of the hippy. And they say happyweed is harmless. He’s right though about some things in a disjointed-Picasso-abstract sort of way. Keep ridin’ the waves, dude.
It almost looks like it’s time to do up our seatbelts GlenGary.
GlenGary
Nov 08, 2007
The markets are still myopic and will pull a few more rally points
before they get exhausted and sink like an old rusty freighter. It takes
some real reverse genius to do the damage that’s been done and equally
hard headed stubborn behavior to continue to use the bilge pumps as the
funnels steam from the water now beginning to touch them.
I think by earnings time after Christmas a little more reality will set in.
Then around March we will hear the grinding and gnashing of teeth and see
the fools out in the streets with hair shirts flogging themselves senseless
mere hours after the old tub slipped between the waves Titanic style.
One thing for sure, there is no stopping this funeral.
Duane
Nov 08, 2007
GlenGary interesting comments. I like your style and mindset. It is so easy to get sucked up into today’s, “Better than the Jones,” attitude. That surely is a costly game. I am holding my breath that most of my bills are paid off when the, “fit hits the shan”. I do agree this coming Spring will be more of a reality check for a lot of people and the struggles will begin in the financial survial state. Only for those to attempt to pull themself out of the financial quicksand of debt each have established. I do feel we have a year to a year and a half before our economy is in a toal collaspe. Enough time to prepare for the next 30+ years of life. During this time the housing 2 28 will have purged itself and the damage will be done. At that time healing will take place unless our government prolongs the agony through entilements. Good luck.
Me
Nov 19, 2007
I like your thiking Glenn. I myself was born and raised on a Dairy farm and was responsible for fixing equipment, field work, animal care, and just about any hand work you can think of. I like to think I learned more from my childhood (to about age 20) than I have in any other part of my life. I also learned the value of hard work. The farm ultimately went out of business and my father had to sell the land to a developer to stay….. something that I think about every day that not many people can understand why it makes me sad.
I have since went into the trades and hold an electrical and plumbing license. My wife and I make a decent living but we have never over extended ourselves. We bought a small house (1200 square feet) close to my job. I can walk to work if I have to. We buy used cars and realy try not to eat out much. I dont feel the need to buy a “bigger than life” pickup truck like my friends so. My frineds say they “need it to haul stuff” but they dont know I grew up on a farm and I know thats BS. They just want to inflate there egos.
Somtimes I feel I am a dying breed…….. I belive there is no such thing as “easy money” and I also do everything myself. Most people I know dont even mow there own lawns…. lazy bastards. They say they cant because there getting old… but my grandfather was out picking up 100s of hay bails at 85 years old and loving it.
I Agree with your buying gold… but I just dont have the money right now. I take solice in the fact that I can do just about anything and understand how things work more than most people do. I hope when the ecomomy goes south the dumb people of this country, who do nothing for there money and spend it stupidly, die with the economy.
GlenGary
Nov 20, 2007
I think every year at this time I get very sick, I get sick of gross consumerism and all of the commercials aimed at Christmas and I wonder what things will look like in say five years. What will they be hocking to the masses that the masses might be interested in buying after they struggle to pay bills or just eat and be warm?
I also wonder how many new cars I’ll see on the highway being that a smart person in bad times would dress themselves down to avoid unwanted attention.
Now that I’ve completely depressed everyone….
I’m wondering just how very far down we will collapse and what advantage stronger nations will exercise to control us as we have controlled others. This might be the most rude of awakenings to the arrogant among us who today still think we can rise above total bankruptcy through some hocus-pocus of the Federal Reserve.
We will still have an economy of sorts but shrunken to bare bones in most cases and bare wages in all but the upper cases or classes who will still bilk and rob unrestricted and unphased by the suffering they see around them as always.
And right now, those of us aware can do little but wait and prepare as best we can watching this thing slowly peel layer by layer like a ripe onion tears and all each painful layer exposing another layer far worse than the very first brought to us by gov’t and media lying of the worst kind which prevents many folks from preparing at all. Now there is the worst our system has to offer.
GlenGary
Duane
Nov 20, 2007
GlenGary
My views on your questions:
1) “….. I wonder what things will look like in say five years.”
Christmas just might become something that is of personal value oposed to material value. A Christmas dinner will be a blessing.
2) “I’m wondering just how very far down we will collapse and what advantage stronger nations will exercise to control us as we have controlled others.”
There will acquire a new order oppsed of the one we know today. This economic problem will be shared by other countries along with US. It will be interesting to see who will battle for position.
3)”…..those of us aware can do little but wait and prepare as best we can watching this thing slowly peel layer by layer…..”
This is a great advantage but at times disheartning.
Savings clause: My view point and 50 cents will buy you a cup of coffee. Oh that’s right coffee is around a $1.19 now – sorry.
Duane
Nov 20, 2007
OK – Here is my take on a few things. I went out to a web site that interviewed individuals that have went through the 1st Depression. I noticed a common thread that each individual shared. If each individual had advise they could share with the younger generation what would that be. Each identified to start a nest egg so you have money if another depression hits. We are enterring the same game but with a new set of rules. Saving money and tucking it away is, in my viewpoint, a worthless adventure. The thing to do with those tucked away dollars is to liquidate them into something that is of value (ex. gold, silver, food etc.). People know that the fit will hit the shan in the future but they think they are save because they have a good retirement or have a large savings account. Any US money will be so worthless that it might as well be used as kindling to start a fire. I am retiring in 6 years but probably sooner along with millions of others. My SS and retirement plan are doomed. Time to stock up for the rest of my life on the survival techniques. I do think if an individual has a right commodity and times are really sucking the individual will be wealthy. Not in dollars but in assets. That’s my 2 cents worth.
GlenGary
Nov 21, 2007
“50 cents buys a cup of coffee…no wait it’s $1.19″
Fifty cents buys a 33oz can of Folgers if you saved Walking Liberty Half Dollars which sell for around $7 each just like many silver dimes in junk condition go $1.90 to $2.50. I like to save in real currency that appreciates in times of fiscal maddness… like now for instance.
GlenGary
GlenGary
Nov 21, 2007
Duane,
I’m 54 retired almost six years ago. Per__”I am retiring in 6 years but probably sooner along with millions of others. My SS and retirement plan are doomed. Time to stock up for the rest of my life on the survival techniques. I do think if an individual has a right commodity and times are really sucking the individual will be wealthy. Not in dollars but in assets. That’s my 2 cents worth.”
I have been stocking up on long term food stores and have roughly 30% of my investments in precious metals. Now, even if the dollar hit zero, the bank that holds my mortgage STILL has to accept my depreciated dollars in payment so I might just give ALL of my dollar holdings to them satisfying the note and keep the precious metals for my use.
On the mortgage it says to be paid in Dollars. Guess in this case they eat it too.
I’m doubting a total dollar bust. I’m thinking about 33 cents to the Canadian Dollar in a few years. It is in no one’s best interest worldwide to eat zero value dollars and the IMF and Central Bankers will claw their finger tips bloody to stop such a thing. 33 cents would be worse than death for the United States for many decades.
Hell, there might be a war over resorces long before we get to that 33. As I remember my history, Japan attacked America over oil and the right to use shipping lanes. Hitler tried to grab oil in the Ural Mountains-Russia and Mid East. History often repeats where fools are concerned and if fools were airplanes then Washington would be the world’s largest airport!
GlenGary
Bob
Nov 21, 2007
I think you said it with the last part, GlenGary. It will only slide so far before the squeeze will bring out all the animosity in the world. China will be pointing the biggest finger. Capitalism is all new for them and they adopted it with great reluctance. When the Chinese people start to lose all their new jobs and wealth, their government is going to blame us. They will probably go on the march or at the very least, start openly supporting the other people in the world who already want to blow us up.
This is the first time in my life that I wished I was a few years younger. I don’t know if I’m up for this. I’m younger than you, but old enough to know that I’m not what I used to be. Age has made me a little meaner and tougher mentally, maybe that will make up for a weak back and a slower pace.
Bob
Nov 21, 2007
I don’t like Folgers. I’m a Nabob man. I think they put sawdust in that Folgers. My wife buys it sometimes because they sell it where she works and it’s cheap. I squeal like a stuck pig when she does. I want to drink the kind of coffee I like. I should be grateful that she’s trying to save money but when I’m dead and gone, no-one is going to care that we saved a few bucks on our coffee. But I’ll have to live every day drinking that crap! Life is too long to live like that.
Funny how a simple thing like reading “Folgers” can set me off. I think I have a problem.
Duane
Nov 22, 2007
First, I would like to wish all you good people that recognize Thanksgiving a Happy Thanksgiving. I wish you and yours the best for the coming year.
Secondly, I am with you Bob about Folgers. There is a reason why that stuff is so cheap. I will drink it if that the only game in town but – I’ll go out on a limb – I love my Maxwell House. Actually, coffee is a number one commodity – right up there with precious metals but under a different umbrella.
My delima in this global economic problem is bringing my wife around to realize the global economic problem we are witnessing. She is coming around slowly but you know women – they have to buy into the situation before the get really proactive. I do have to say she hasn’t called me a, “Doom and Gloomer,” in quite awhile. She ismy reality check – guess that what makes us work(going on 35 years of marriage). I will keep working on her because more than ever is the time for an awaking. Any recommendations on helping to get her mindset tuned into our economic problem would be considered.
We have not been brought up with a, “silver spoon in our mouth,” so we have had to lear the survival techniques of life. I remember when we first met – we had a 1 room apartment and we shared the bathroom down the hall. $10 would buy you 3 bag of groceries plus pay for a taxi cab. I look back and I think those were the best days of our lives.
This board is good in respect to witness that other individuals share similar thoughts on our economy. I think this is healthy and that we can learn from each other – eventually.
Have a great day!
GlenGary
Nov 22, 2007
Bob,
I was a strictly top shelf coffee drinker and got sick of $9 a pound when that money could be put to better uses.
Also, I cut way back on coffee as a matter of health being that coffee makes a person’s system too acid which causes poor blood oxygenation which in-turn makes disease possible… my wife was cured of ovarian cysts-cancerous by diet adaptation and oxygenation done at home rather than let our cut, burn, poison medical system have a go at killing her. (I haven’t seen a medical doctor myself in 15+ years.) I trust no one really when it comes to my health. How I feel is how I am. I believe in simplicity.
A can of Folgers is the least of my concerns. Anything I give up or alter is for a good tradeoff and better uses of resources including health is generally the reason.
I haven’t drank in 20 years and neither does the wife simply because alcohol is sugar and sugar is problematic for the body causing reproductive system problems that we see epidemic in this country from prostate problems, to urinary problems to impotence in men at ages when nothing should be wrong to fibroids in women to cervical problems.
*Viagra is the symptom of treatments and diets that make no sense.
Also, sugar and acid is cancer food. Both challenge oxygen and ferment in the body causing sinus and yeast infections, fungal nails, stomach and digestive problems, kidney and liver challenges and *hormone problems. Acidosis. The body pH goes wacky and sickness results…cold hands, cold feet, fatigue,the list is long before major illness occurs.IBS and acid reflux are due to this.
In surviving what may come, a big part of my studies is how to get by without meds by the proper use of whole foods and herbs to prevent and cure illness.
As of right now I make a mean 12-grain pancake that is pure protein with zero glycemic effects..I grind the grains right before I make them in order to capture the nutrition as I do when I make bread. In fact, I grind grain everyday instead of using stripped bare grocery store food.
When my wife became ill I began to look at why. In helping her in just two years I lost 37 pounds and my strength and stamina went through the roof now feeling more 35 than 54.
Wife has been diabetic since age 4 and her blood sugar levels over a three month checking period are down 350 pts for two years running with far less insulin taken. Her eye tests are better as well which her Doc scratches his head over. He can’t figure it out. The oncologist couldn’t figure out tumors that now you see them, 10 weeks later POOF they are gone. Truth is, they make too much on killing folks they don’t want the truth.
Coffee? Two cups in the morning. If it is trash so much the better because if I don’t love it I drink far less and some days I don’t drink it at all.
I ramble too much.
Glen
GlenGary
Nov 22, 2007
Bob,
When you say you get mad over things SO DO I! I hate that our countrymen are lemmings who question little even while it kills family members. We have a society that takes orders from everyone from brokers, to employers, to drug companies to doctors, to politicians, to commercials no one wants to think for themselves any more nor take responsibility for thinking it seems. Those that do are weird or to be avoided.
Peer pressure is what we tell kids to avoid and yet the grownups bend and twist to it daily and even hourly. No one wants to be different by and large. From clothes to houses to cars to vacation spots to toys to the manner in which things are expressed it is straight out of Stepford Wives.
I get sick and tired of hearing the same thing come out of mouth after mouth with nothing original as if everyone is programmed. Especially the politically correct folks… they make me sick.
Yea, I get sick and mad at stuff too. I dislike lazy unthinking order taking programmed folks who are copies of other lazy unthinking programmed fools.
At a store recently an old fella-maybe 75 lit a cigarette in the PARKING LOT and a 30 something lady 40 feet away started coughing like she could be affected by it. You know the type I think. She was quite OBESE so as I walked by I said “Go “F” yourself fatso and lose some weight. It’s not the cigarette that is bothering you.. it’s your lard restricting your wind!” Her husband said; “I told you about that” to her.
Yea, even he saw the hypocrisy in her behavior. She probably did that a lot because her husband didn’t defend her.
We have a lot of poor behavior in this country and it has gotten me to the point of lashing out at hypocrites and whiners.
Glen
Bob
Nov 22, 2007
That’s pretty funny, Glen. I smoke little cigars just because people like that say I shouldn’t. Your absolutely right about diet and health. I know I would be in a lot better shape if I ate better and quit smoking and drinking. I try to keep the bad habits from getting out of hand and I know I can go for long periods without them, but I read something one time that keeps me from worrying about it too much. A great man once said(paraphrased because I don’t remember the exact quote),”what goes in to your mouth will never kill you, it’s what comes out that does the damage”. Truer words were never spoken. Our bodies will die no matter what we do, but our words and deeds are what we will be remembered or forgotten for.
I figure if I can’t get that house in order, there’s no point in keeping my temple clean.
I had a bad flu about a year and a half ago but other than that, I don’t get sick much either. Just a lot of aches and pains. I write it off as the results of hard labor and hard knocks.
Duane. Buy her a gun. That will bring her on board. And watch Mad Max with her. You have a happy Thanksgiving too.
GlenGary
Nov 22, 2007
Bob and Duane,
I’ve smoked cigarettes since I was 14 and have not quit nor will I until I can no longer get them or the box is lowered into the ground. I have a habit comfort zone here. I’m probably in better shape than most desk jockeys and when I hiked this year with a bunch of young teachers on a field trip I never heard such wheezing and complaining in all my days. “I wanna stop…are we there yet?, It’s too hot out here.My legs are cramping.” I loved it! It was great! From the desk chair to the great outdoors certainly shut some mouths in about one brisk hour of hiking.. the other two hours iced my cake. Canoeing brings the same results and I always volunteer to help.
As for convincing the wife.. Just show her the job losses and the underfunded schools and all the credit fiasco mess and ask her what all of these folks will do to feed themselves after they lose everything-no job to go to, gov’t help runs out.. They may be looking at you. Look at the crime stats nationwide going up and we are not near as hurt as we are about to be. What is the next step? The step after that? Where is it leading? Is this good or bad? What can she do to make sure she is safe, fed, warm?
My wife is a level headed 27 year teacher 48 years old who this Christmas is buying me another gun for home protection that she can use easily. She sees the innercity stuff daily and the struggles increasing and the crime becoming more bold and brazen and she says now is the time to prepare for what is quickly coming that nothing will stop. Not enough police, not enough community involvment, not enough awareness which will lead to chaos at some point. Pressed to the wall folks go nuts and do what they feel they must even if it hurts others.
Right now we are on the very beginning part which fosters disbelief and denial. Waiting until things become obvious is waiting far too long as you want to be out of the way when the sh_t hits the fan blades. At that point you need to be invisible out of the eye range and thoughts of others as in what Rover can’t see, Rover won’t bark at or bite.
You need a plan and the means to carry it out because once things go South panic sets in and one becomes part of that instead of a-part from it.
If I have to walk my land with my rifle daily that’s Ok with me. But I will not leave my land for food and become a target like nearly everyone else. Homeland Security says only 7% of Americans have some plan for disaster meaning 93% will try to kill each other. The old, weak, sick and unprepared go first before any gov’t response becomes probable. The others, the untrained, the impulsive young go next as they try stupid things. The longer one lasts the better their chances so preparing becomes one’s first job.
You might ask your wife to remember Katrina and then add say six months to any response time nationwide instead of just the Gulf Coast. What would become of you and her?
GlenGary
BTW-I was a steelworker for 30 years and lived some very lean times myself.
GlenGary
Nov 22, 2007
Some words to the wise about guns. Do not buy expensive guns or assualt rifles. No one in the real world sprays bullets madly around and hits anything except the bottom of their wallet.
It is the single bullet that one must be concerned with as the bullet does the work and the rifle or gun simply delivers it. Learn to aim. Mount a Mag-lite on the barrel for night time shooting as it tends to blind your target which gives great advantage. Blinded disoriented people give one a critical time edge.
I favor police type calibers since the police know stopping power and velocity and what loads are best. They study what works best on a budget-what is reliable and what makes folks quit even if not hit in vital areas. Expert experience for free.
40 cal S&W seems to be the choice followed by .357.
Hi-Point Arms puts out a good 40 cal rifle semi-auto 9-10 shot clip for about $200 on sale-easily handled by women.
The star performers in .40 ammo tend to be high tech bullets such as the Winchester SXT or Ranger T, the CCI Gold Dot, and the Remington Golden Saber with 155-grain bullets at 1200 foot-seconds or 165-grain bullets at 1140 to 1150 feet per second. Not cheap.
Stock up early as when you need them so will everyone else. A scope would be a great addition to this rifle making it a serious piece of hardware.
GlenGary
Aint this fun?
Next week we will discuss the Molotov Cocktail and the sticky bomb. ( Only Kidding.)
Duane
Nov 23, 2007
Thanks for the advise. I quit smoking about 3 years ago. I was a hard-core smoker of 40 years. I used the nicotine Commit tablets to stop but have been on the the 3 years. It is hard getting off nicotine but maybe one day.
Sounds like I should beef-up my home access areas. Right now I have several access areas that if someone wanted to charge in I would be vaunerable. Maybe I can hook up some electrical door knobs.
Seriously – I will rethink my present security. Not sure on what to do besides putting up plywood on all the windows and doors. Perimeter cameras might be a good investment. I live in a little cow town in the center of the state. Not sure on what I would do to protect my house if there were a gang of vandels. Guess I am relying on the local police to keep order.
Bob
Nov 23, 2007
If we start talking gunfighting, I’ll never shut up. I’ve never been in one yet, but gunfights facinate me. I’ve read a lot of the old historical accounts of gunfights and about the people involved in them. With the good ones, it all boiled down to character. There is nothing more dangerous than a man who wants to kill you when he doesn’t care if he lives or dies doing it. I realize that defensive cover is the best option but there are always times when you have to take the offense or fight a retreating defense like the Rat River trapper. I’ve done a fair bit of shooting and the little bit of killing that goes along with farm life so I know from experience that the Hollywood versions of fights and gun battles are way out there, with a few exceptions.
The first twenty minutes of Saving Private Ryan was pretty realistic but it still lacked smell, touch and taste and it didn’t do justice to what the noise and concussions must have been like. The guys who kept their heads through that and maintained their focus, were everything a gunfighter needs to be.
Barbarosa with Willie Nelson was pretty good. He had a line in there; “plant your feet until you’ve done all the shootin’ you’re going to do. Nothin’ unerves a body more than to see a man standing still when he should be runnin’ like a spotted assed ape”. There are historical accounts of that tactic being very effective.
Clint’s Unforgiven was good too. I like the part where Gene Hackman tells the writer to give Richard Harris his pistol when he’s in the jail cell. It’s all about character and self-dicipline. Control over your emotions and reading your opponent. I was telling somebody else about the self dicipline part little while ago.
I don’t know, I’ve never been there but from what I gather, this is the kind of thing where you never know who you truly are or what you are capable of until you’ve experienced it but when it’s over, you’re never the same and most people wish it had never happened.
I’m not looking forward to what we have coming. I hope that I can measure up and make a difference for the better.
GlenGary
Nov 23, 2007
I’ve had more than one gun aimed at me in my life and that said I know..at least in my mind that if I aim a gun at a person I intend to use it and think about it later like after I hear that THUD of a dropping body. I like life and to that end I won’t go quietly.
A gun is a tool like a hammer is a tool or money is a tool and that is all it is. I have no romance with a gun any more than with my Ryobi drill. I know what is mine is mine and who lives with me I protect and a baseball bat or kitchen knife will not do. A 12ga shotgun in close quarters will not do and for a woman it is too much-too big-too loud too unweldy. A larger caliber short semi-auto rifle is perfect at about 6.75lbs loaded.
The one thing most folks should do they do not… which is objectify their target to a THING in your way. Don’t examine it except it’s intent and act on that. If it is where it should not be, especially at the wrong time that is intent enough. Too much thinking is too much pause when seconds are critical.
Years ago a few of us were shooting rats in a strip mine and a fella not with us opened up from about 350 yards away AT US from a hill overlooking us. The shots came real close. Was he playing? Who has time to think that far?
I immediately ducked behind a small dirt pile and returned fire and as I did the shots ceased immediately. My friends told me I was crazy. I think you meet force with force and that is more than fair. Yea I was scared…very scared. But the intent was clear so there was no question of how I should react. STOP THE THREAT. I did. Did I hit him? No, with a pistol too far away. But my intent came clear to the other shooter who fled. Betting he didn’t ever do that again.
As for movies and TV..make believe for sure no one smells cordite or has ringing ears, cold sweats and a stomach so fluttery you could almost puke while your attention is 100% on what comes next as you strain to remain steady when you feel like running which is no option as face forward is the only way out going through the target the best way to survive. You can think about what it all means later.
It isn’t a pleasant thing to ponder. But if push comes to shove I think I want to be the one doing both instead of the other way around. The person unwilling to run usually wins.
GlenGary
Bob
Nov 23, 2007
Duane. Your post wasn’t there when I wrote my last one. When you start talking about electric doorknobs and security cameras you may have failed to consider that it is unlikely we will have electricity if people start rioting.
You might be in better shape in a small town but you should still plan to look after all of your own needs for a few months until things settle down a bit. Re-read GlenGary’s posts, he has it all figured out.
Maybe get a dog if you don’t already have one. It doesn’t have to be a mankiller, even a little one will hear things that you don’t and bark. They’re good alarms. A little one won’t eat as much either(and they’re not as stringy as a big dog if you have to eat them ha!).
Your wife is really going to call you a doom and gloomer now.
GlenGary
Nov 24, 2007
I think a lot of folks think that if they have a gun they can just go take what they
want and don’t consider that they will get shot at or even maimed or killed and most folks
are not hardened enough to make it past one serious encounter where someone fires back.
I know that if say four folks attack and one gets shot one or two others likely will try
to aide the wounded person thinning the odds and making a fatter target of themselves.
One thing few have thought about is folks turning Fido loose because they cannot feed him.
Dogs pack together and can turn feral very fast becoming a threat to your pets, small kids
and if hungry enough even adults. Guns help there. Up here we’ve had to shoot coyotes for
coming too close in to properties with pets and children. They get bold if left to roam
living space areas. Nothing stops a coyote pack like thinning a few out of the pack.
Emergency preparedness extends to your mental outlook and practicing the thoughts that you
will need to survive which includes defending you and yours. Packing away food is great. BUT
you must pack into yourself the attitude of defense and realize that trying to reason with anyone
can get you harmed. A person trying to steal to live isn’t going to reason out the situation.
Watch Cops on TV and see how many armed felons are thinking reason-ZIP-None. Also look at what happens
9 out of 10 times when force is met with force. You see panic and running-firing on the fly.
The upper hand goes to the mentally prepared and even the military spends tons of time implanting that
attitude of “Can do–I’ll kill you!”
Guns are tools and the attitude and skill of use defines all outcomes. A single minded focus on
the task at hand where dicipline overcomes fear enough that instincts are useful. Everyone has
instincts, most ignore them. I use mine often because of my past. I’m short on trust for people
right out of the gate knowing trust is earned by experience.
As for boarding up windows.. covering them will do since at that point no one can tell what is behind
that covering. Is it clear? Is it a trap? A Gun? What? Most people won’t take a blind chance.
At night we plan to sleep in the basement with only two small glass block windows since to breach that
space would be a very unhealthy thing to do.
I was looking at making the steps portable-on wheels so I could go down and then move them away from the door
which would make the first step on a 12 course basement in the dark unpleasant and loud. Sort of a demented thought
but why not? A little bracing, a few wheels… No one would expect that.
I January-Feb at auction I plan to get a used welder-generator to run my well pump as needed and maybe the gas furnace
off and on if that still applies-electric heaters if not. With business going belly up welders come cheap
and make strong generators unlike wimpy ones from Lowes and what have you. My fall-back is wood.
One less headache as each part comes together. It is amazing trying to see what one needs if stores do not exist, power
becomes scarce, cops become impotent… a logistical nightmare really that takes time to plan each step out fully and
even then one still has the feeling something might be missing.
It is hard to fathom what one might do if unprepared the lights went out, the heat off, the local grocers closed, the sporting
goods stores mute and no way to get ammo or anything…. a wife, kids, maybe a week or less of edible food and no rescue on
the horizon, no gasoline, no sleeping bags or hard weather outdoor gear… never thought it could happen but here it is and
money is really no good because who sells their stores at any price if they cannot get more?
As soon as a week or two goes by most folks will be too weak to even try to scavange and their minds will be not too sharp. After
three-four weeks movement will become difficult on foot even if one finds something here and there.
Folks have had warning ever since 9-11 and we older folks since the Cold War and even parents telling us about the Great Depression.
Katrina was a HUGE Red Flag. I studied the behaviors. Most would have died if not for the Army as they sat there complaining. It was sad
to think that was their survival skills. Yea, I’ll get shot for saying that.
GlenGary
Duane
Nov 25, 2007
Great insights! I have a CO2 pellet pistol maybe I can scare 10% of them off and 40% will be disoriented laughing at me. The other 50% we might be a problem. I am thinking about having a hide-away closet to run to or store the bulk of my food in for secuity. Need to create a backup plan for sure.
So many scenarios – so few answers.
Time is running out.
I do agree that a pack of starving wild animals have no boundaries. We have not really seen the survial side of the human race yet. We all live under rules and manners that grease the skids of being civilized. When you get individuals that don’t care about rules and are looking for their next meal or die is a very serious concept.
I vision a truck full of people with guns going house to house and busting down doors and taking what they want. Who could stop them? It gets scary for sure.
Almost need to form a gang and go around the neighborhoods to maintain oder but that is what the police are for.
Bob
Nov 25, 2007
Take a deep breath Duane. It doesn’t matter if you panic now or later, it won’t do you any good. Just give things some serious thought and prepare the best you can. It will either be good enough or it won’t. There is just no way to tell exactly what your situation will be. Sometimes you can be ready for everything except the one thing that happens or you can be caught with your pants down and just get lucky.
Whatever will be, will be.
Read what I wrote to Iron Mike in post #73.
Duane
Nov 25, 2007
Bob
The response to the fourth question of post #73 makes sense and worthly of serious consideration. I have a woodworking shop filled with lots of assorted tools. I am knowledgable of electricity and plumbing. Actually, I have rewired and plumbed my first house and it passed inspection. I do need to learn more things along the lines of mechanics and gardening which I can work on. I could use a good exercise plan as well so I do have some things do work on well I am learning other things.
Thanks for the insights.
GlenGary
Nov 26, 2007
A lot of folks are seeing apocalypse now with a total collapse of everything yet I cannot completely wrap my mind around that.
In Argentina when their money collapsed in the late 1990s that did not happen. In Zimbabwe today that is not the case at 5,000% inflation. In Germany in the early 1920s when that happened with the money that did not happen and in our own depression those things did not play out that way. The French Revolution was caused by printing press money and it was the aristocrat class and ruling class that took the violence. Got the blame.
I think we are going to see erosion of our money like say in Jamaica in around 1990 whereby the dollar devalues to 30% of the Canadian Dollar plunging the middle-class at or below the poverty line whereby one can still eat but do little else. There will be strained commerce and some jobs-higher crime, but life will get tough. People will work for less as costs spiral.
I believe, prepare for the worst, hope for the best. Luck always favors the prepared.
As for the food I put away. We rotate some stock to get a feel for making a lot of things from scratch or grain mixes so we will not be clueless when and if something happens. We have had occasion to be off of the power grid for days due to storms and use alternative means to heat, cook, bathe and simply be in the coldest weather.
As well one can target practice to the point a gun feels very natural in your hands and good aim is first nature. Practice picking things off at a distance to see how far is feasible with a side arm or rifle. I bought spools 200 LB test fishing line which makes great invisible trip wires. How many times can one fall on their face before they get hurt or simply frustrated to death exhausted? Put a filthy spike after the trip wire and they are eliminated from a serious fight. Imagination can be a wonderful tool as can scaring people silly. Even making a person furious is an edge as they stop thinking.
My thinking is inflation will make it tougher to eat well and still heat, buy gas and work. Food storage goes a long way to address future costs as does necessity storage like toilet paper, detergents-personal items. Precious metals preserve wealth as they are doing right now.
If it’s the worst,,,,,
Well planned defensive measures plus enough food to not have to tire one’s self foraging or be where folks can see them is a big edge. Cases of canned goods from places like Aldi’s or Save-a-lot, dry milk, canned fish or meat, baking mixes can be the start of prep as can flour, corn meal, yeast (in the fridge it saves) shortning, oats, bran, dried fruits and nuts. Survival sites sell 25 & 50 pound bags of grain, buckets, oxygen absorbers for long term store. I paid $13 for 25 pounds of 7 grain mix and $22 for 36 pounds of 9 grain cereal in a long term store bucket. You can buy over 100 pounds of food for around $100 and shipping. I have local sources for whole wheat flour in bulk, dried milk, some grains, baking goods at way below grocery store prices.
Examples-what you can get on the net; powdered butter by the 25 pound bucket makes 50 pounds. A case, 648 whole eggs $95, 6 Way Rolled Grain 50 lb bag $24, 9 Grain Cracked Cereal 50 lb bag $22, Buttermilk Pancake Mix Complete 25 lb bag $17.50. You just have to know where to look. From veggies to fruits to spuds to even cooked meat which all stores for many years it can be had. I just order when I have extra money and cut corners to get the money. Dehydrated food rehydrates from a few times dry weight to many times dry weight so it is a lot when you crunch the numbers.
Planning isn’t rocket science but it does take focus.
Good exercise? Walk a lot. Get an axe and split some wood maybe 30 minutes a day. Walk stairs. Avoid elevators. Buy some cheap used weights. Check Craigslist for cheap exercise stuff. Paint a room or two. Have sex a lot. (My favorite.)
GlenGary
GlenGary
Nov 26, 2007
Bob,
More than a few folks have called me Doom-man. I think that the focus
to want to survive is an uplift and not a doom thing. It is the recognition
that things are wrong and the will to be ready if possible so one has a chance.
Denial is counterproductive and deadly plus a personal roadblock to moving ahead.
I gave up plenty to plan and execute what I’m doing because I see that business as
usual might not be possible unless I do. I don’t like losing and losing because of my
failures would be bitter so I must try.
We are all in the same boat does not do much for me. Misery loves company is not
something I want to live with. If one is always scanning the horizon looking ahead
it is harder to get blindsided.
This forum is the only place I mention this stuff because a few years back I came to
realize that most folks are asleep at the wheel and waste my time and energy I will not.
I can change me and what I do and that is my total sphere of influence by and large.
In 1988-1990 I called alarm with many of my coworkers about the state of our company and pensions.
Our job security etc,, One guy and me out of possibly 220 people forced to leave early are still
not having to work after 30-35 years on the job because we planned for that early rout
we saw coming. The rest are delivery people and sales clerks working for peanuts and won’t
even talk to us. Like it’s our fault. We remind them of what was possible to avert and they
did nothing.
Folks see what they chose to see and many are so stuck in their own conditioning they are blind.
All the info is out there. All the dots are in all faces. Failure to connect it all is a national
problem. Not paying attention costs folks again and again. Tomorrow’s comfort is replaced by everything
today and on and on they go until they can no longer go.
The educated seem to be the worst as they expect more than the average working stiff and seem to
think that nothing can happen since they have degrees and degrees are instant security. Not
any more! Not at all.
Others think there will be rescue. Bet your life on it? Not me!
This is the Perfect Storm. High debt, low manufacturing base-few exports
to raise money, food shortages in many places in the world, energy shortages
looming, populations rising too fast, global warming, a tired worn out army,
politicians out of control and clueless, a strained financial system and an angry population.
Seeing the truth is not in vogue.
GlenGary
Duane
Nov 26, 2007
GG good points and I do enjoy your thoughts on all this. I like the 200 lb fishline concept. I learned a lot during Y2K and have used or replaced everything I stored. It wasn’t a waste of time but a good rehearsal for what is to come. I recently heard that Americans have finally reached a negative savings. They are using the plastic to buy with – how long can that continue. i don’t think to long and they will be wondering why the door hit them in the ass when they get thrown out off their house.
My wife has been putting off having her teeth pulled so maybe now is a good time while we can still aford a dentist. We will pay cash for this one – something tells me it won’t be cheap.
Probably I should go out there and pick up serveral pairs of shoes. Payless has a great promotion – buy one get the other 1/2 price. We always need shoes.
Getting late and have to get some rack time so I will catch you on the next one.
Duane
Brian
Nov 27, 2007
I don’t really know what to think, I don’t like what I see. I drive truck for a living,and not to crazy about the whole mexican truckers. I see alot of people living way above thier means, and it will come and bite them in the butt some day. As for GlenGary I live in the Mid- West. When going up we always had 3 – 6 mths of food in the house at any time. Had very large garden and livestock my mother would can veggies and meat for future use. Never had alot of fancy clothes or other items growing up, but never went hungery.
Don’t really know what to think about 2008 nobody really excites me, maybe we need a true 3rd party to check the other two or maybe it’s just one?
The Government has made giant shit sandwich and ” WE THE PEOPLE ” are all going to be eating it, so line up so you can take a bite.
Duane
Nov 27, 2007
Brian
You reminded me of what to get myself at tax time. Some canning jars – wonder if I should wait until summer and pick the up at lawn sales. Any idea on how long seeds last? It would be good to have a ready of things to start a garden with. Probably this summer would be a good time to actually start one and get back up to speed. I grew up on canned goods from the garden and remember helping my mom wash jars and prepping the veggies. Right now I can buy them as cheap from a road-side stand but I think the day will come when the stands won’t be as frequent as they are now. It would be good to have a ready garden supply inventory. Not sure if that is possible. Any input would be welcome.
GlenGary
Nov 28, 2007
Hi,
I had been staring at that sandwich thinking of how to just nibble
on it a spell when it occurred to me to leave the United States in three
years when my wife retires and just quit trying to fight this mess.
There are other options and I see moving to Panama as one of them for
some very sound reasons like zero taxation on pensions and capital gains,
cheaper living expenses, a property tax waiver for 20 years on anything
you build. Low crime. No military. Plenty of company coming from the US and
other countries trying to escape the same mess. No Snow! Cheaper utilities.
Nice climate. Good medical care at affordable prices and cheaper insurance.
If I got home sick I could visit.
The wife thinks it’s a good idea because the amount we’d save yearly on taxes
and utilities and food would pay for a house if we owed about $140,000 to $180,000
which would leave our present equity nearly untouched when we sold here plus shelter
the heck out of our saved up money.
In effect, we’d be living 1980 costs in 2012 income and assets. I could live
with that. Like why not?
GlenGary
Bob
Nov 28, 2007
Personally Glen, I don’t think there is anywhere to go. If we had a frontier, I’d go there but for the first time in human history, we don’t have one. They used up all the frontiers in Europe, found a new world, went west, went north, headed down into Mexico, no place left. In the words of the Eagles,”there is no more new frontier, we have got to make it here”.
You can try Panama Glen, maybe it’s fantastic down there, but I think this is the big one we’ve got coming, the one they’ve been writing about for thousands of years, and there isn’t going to be any place in the world where we can avoid it. I don’t think it matters where we are going to live and I don’t think there is enough money and shelter out there to protect us from this boogey man.
I’ve prepared a little bit, because it’s my nature, but in reality I don’t think it matters. I’m just going to deal with it as it comes and try to be a reasonably decent human being.
What is that, an oxymoron?
Robert Duval had a line in a movie that said “happiness is just a matter of having something to look forward to”. Maybe Panama will do that for you. Go for it.
I think there was something about napalm in there too.
Duane
Nov 28, 2007
It’s noon on 11/28/07 and the stock market is up. It really doesn’t matter anymore if specific stocks are making a profit or not anymore. It’s all in the continious printing of money.
I agree that there is no place to go to escape the problems ahead of us. There will be venues that will not be hit as hard but this problem is global. Anywhere there is a US dollar link there will be a problem. It’s kinda like a neighborhood where someon’s sewer has backed up. The entire neighborhood gets to enjoy the smell.
We need to immediately go to the gold and silver standard and allow our economy to purge and heal. This would send an ounce of silver and/or gold to a level never seen before. ::::waking up from my day dream::::: sorry what was I thinking.
We are at a crossroad where how long can the government can bluff before they play their cards. We are all-in and sitting with a 2 and 7 in our hand. The flop shows an AKQ and we are all-in?
GlenGary
Nov 28, 2007
Duane,
The Dollar Stores sell canning jars and a week or two back I saw them at Walmart in two sizes.
I would think with seeds that if you keep them in a cool dry place in darkness with the oxygen removed from the container as much as possible they would keep a few years. I might note that a few years back in late spring I took the seeds from store bought tomoatoes, cucumbers, peppers and squash and started them indoors and transplanted them outside and they all produced well.
Some older seeds you can soak in water to see if they will try to germinate. If so, use them.
GlenGary
Nov 28, 2007
Fascinatin’,
I’m looking straight at Panama with zero tax on outside the country pensions and investment income. A good home that I might want would cost $200,000 American but with no tax on my income and the 30% down required in Panama for pensionados my savings in taxes-utilities and their 20 year property tax abatement would easily make the payments and then some.
Rents there for a nice place are typically 70% below the United States if one wanted to rent. As for food, if you go with local fruits and veggies and local beef which I might add is organic … beef averages not much more than $3.50 a pound for steaks.
You can move all of your personal belongings like furniture there with no tax or tariff and buy one new car every two years with no import taxes. Local wages make it possible to hire a live-in housekeeper for $100 to $150 a month and the same for a gardener if that is your wish. Pensionados as they call them get big discounts on movies, theaters, sporting events of 50% off and restaurants of 25% off and fast food 15% off with dentists cheaper there and doctors giving 20% off. Medical Insurance is cheaper and many MD’s are US trained. Also, if your electric bill is $50 or under you get 25% off. At their rates it would be easy to have a $50 or even less bill since in Ohio I pay $89 budget on near 5,000 sq.ft including basement.
In the mountains where I am interested the temp is generally 80 degrees during the day and 70 at night which almost kills the need to air-condition since the breezes are near constant.
This and Uruguay-a 12 hour flight from NY were the only two countries that had so many benefits, were US friendly and safe as heck. Uruguay was cheaper but much too far away for me.
I don’t think the a-holes that run this country think anyone wants out. Their arrogance suggest they think we are IT and everyone wants in.
Bob,
As far as economics.. I’d rather live in a country that is expressing itself in freedoms with a living standard that is great today then a country that is rolling back freedom in paranoia and whose living standards are becoming oppressive and stagnant of forward movement.
I know there are tradeoffs with this and I know what they are, but I think I can adapt. With my present net worth it near doubles on Panama’s economic standard being no taxes to pay. Right now I’d save $4,300 property taxes and as near as I can figure $27,000 in joint income taxes plus, about $1,800 utilities yearly, probably $1,300 food and when I go to cash investments ALL of the capital gains once transferred. Now add in medical insurance at more than 50% off.
Nowhere to hide I’m sure. But less expensive places to hide are out there where one fears economics a whole lot less.
GlenGary
PS-The dollar has rallied to near par with the looney and oil is near $90 which is about $8 down so far this week while the Dow is over 300pts higher right now. Interesting.
Duane
Nov 28, 2007
Bob and GG
I was just out looking at some charts and what I see is that next Aprile 4/2008 the Index will be at 62. Now when the index hits 55 there is not doubt an economic collapse withour dollar. Maybe 2008 is the year it will happen.
GlenGary
Nov 29, 2007
Duane
I don’t think anyone can time the date of our demise. Folks can only speculate based mostly on hunches since the markets are frought with emotional responses.
With the dollar still having some rally power we will need a shock of some magnitude to finally collapse it. Your guess is as good as mine what that will be or when.
Spring would be my guess, but in reality I thought it would have happened in the 1980′s. These crooks have great staying power.
My money…a good piece of it remains in gold and silver physicals not gold and silver stock with the rest mostly in offshore investment out of the dollar which means not too much since the world weighs the DOW for it’s signals as of late. By December’s end I will safe harbor the rest of my dollars if that can be done effectively. If I get sh-t on in some ways it won’t be a big surprise.
But like I said before; my mortgage is in dollars and so are some other bills with fixed details so even if the buck goes to 10 cents these people still must take the contractual dollar amount which I have. And the precious metals at that point would leave me in fair shape I think.
If the buck slides ominously…when that happens, our economy cannot follow it by raising many prices since from grocers to nuts and bolts no one could sell anything. I see a huge downward pressure on prices and wages simply because if you cannot get your price you lower or go bust and if high wages are in the way you lower them.
Classic deflation which comes after run away inflation kills monetary value by killing the ability of folks to keep up and still buy. We become third world.
As for right now I see a December sucker rally coming on up to the point of the Fed’s lowering interest one more time to bail their buddies out… it won’t, but that is their dream.
They might as well since nothing matters any more.
GlenGary
Duane
Nov 29, 2007
GG
Chin up ole chap. You are in a very secured position compared to a large percent of the population. I have been and still will buy silver coins – wish I could aford gold but I can’t. I but $10 face dollars in silver now and then. It adds up fast. I am hoping that will be an edge when I go to the grocery store or gas station. If an individual can fill up for $5 face siver dollars. Depends on how bad it gets but I think I am investing wisely. I am drawing up plans on a pantry cupboard and will stock it the first of the year. Lots to do and if you do a little each day it adds up.
Hmm – maybe I can pay off my mortgage with a few pieces of silver. I think bartering will surface moreso than it is presently. We do live in the most interesting times.
GlenGary
Nov 30, 2007
Duane
If you are interested in bulk goods that store a looooooong time you might try survivalacres.com which is where I have bought a ton of stuff plus oxygen absorbers to store things bought locally. Also, Walton Feeds on the net has some great articles on food storage as does the Internet Grocer.
Imagination is the key to this thing. What will you and the wife eat? What do you like? Food storage is not done right if it could create food fatigue. Food fatigue is when your appetite shuts down from eating too much of the same thing too often. This can deprive you of nutrition and good health. I experiment with grains and mixes right now to get a feel for the how-to should I be in the position of tapping the main supply. I also included puddings and baking mixes in the storage to combat feeling deprived which can sap mental outlook.
The other night from scratch I finally perfected 10 grain bread that is near 100% protein using honey as a sweetner instead of sugar. It was heavy and moist about half the height of store bought bread, but it tasted better and was 10 times more filling. Used oven since bread machines are not all that useful when doing it from scratch. They get in the way.
The same night I put together from storage a beef veggie soup using a 14oz can of beef and it turned out really well except to say too much because when the veggies rehydrated everything became like 4 times the amount I thought I put in. I will freeze the rest.:) The learning curve is wide! Corn Meal mush was easy to make by comparison. 10 minutes-enough for two meals for two. Dried eggs are easy. Add water-scramble and they taste like eggs.
Most canned goods keep long past the expiration date since that date is just chosen by manufacturers as the date of their guarantee-Best BY which is not to say Don’t Use After. I ate some Progresso Clam Chowder a few weeks ago that had 2001 stamped on it. It was fine. I bought the stuff at Sams in 1998 and it was just ignored off and on. So 10 years is not out of the question at all for cans stored in a cool dry place. If the can is not damaged-bulging or stuff shoots out when opened or it doesn’t smell or a finger dip doesn’t taste metalic, sour or off then I go ahead remembering I ate Military Rations in cans in the late 1960′s left over from the Korean War as a Boy Scout. It simply tasted like food and no one back then got their shorts in a bunch like today. The stuff had to be 15 years old.
Cans are quite good for food storage and off-brands like Value Time or those sold at Aldis or Save-a-lot make sense cost wise and variety wise. Around here a case of 24 veggies runs $7.70. I think that is the same for pork and beans.
Dehydrated veggies seem to cost more-but they reinflate at 2 to 5 times dry weight and are more healthy.
If you live in the Mid West around Ohio I can hook you up with canners that sell 14 and 28 oz cans of cooked beef, burger, pork, chicken, turkey that is used in ship’s stores and stays good a minimum of seven years. I buy from canners since I can get it 45% off of what stores sell it for. I read labels in stores and then google to the source and call them.
Good Luck with that pantry!
Glen
Bob
Nov 30, 2007
How are you going to move all this stuff to Panama, Glen?
GlenGary
Dec 01, 2007
Nothing is set in stone as I need to wait to see just how bad things get. After all, we could get a President that actually might restore some sanity to the country and make some other positive moves.
I think in sealed containers I might not have a problem shipping it with “household goods” that we select to keep. If not, after about 18 months of chowing down on the buckets I’ll be left with the dehydrates in factory sealed cans that I know are acceptable for export/import.
My understanding is that my goods could be shipped in pods to New Orleans by truck or train and put on a ship to be offloaded to Panama and then taken by truck to the new location. I’m still doing research right now, but it looks no more expensive than building a house here and moving since the labor around here is many times the labor in Panama. With the use of pods it cuts costs considerably.
Nothing is free and certainly this will run into money easily. Right now I’m trying to get an idea of what it would cost to ship my Corvette down there since one like it would be impossible to find and I’ve owned it for 20 years and cared for it better than most folks care for a wife. Hehehehe. I’m thinking it will get it’s own pod for itself and it’s extra parts/tires/rims etc..
Bob
Dec 01, 2007
Duane.
Just to re-enforce my idea that careful planning doesn’t mean squat, I heard that Evel Knievel died yesterday of old age. I’ve known a lot of people who lived careful lives and died young, yet there was a guy who launched himself into the air at high rates of speed more times than you can count and he died a sick old man.
I think you have to try to do your best but you can’t control the cards that you are going to be dealt. You just have to deal with life as it comes.
Duane
Dec 01, 2007
Hi Bob
I agree – there is nothing absolute or forever in this world. All one can do is try and do the best they can – at least make an effort. I do know that if that squirrel doesn’t store nuts aways for the winter summer may never come. I’m not the smartest guy in the world but life has given me good horse-sense.
Your right – each day is a gift and hopefully we treasure it and use it wisely. I love going to bed and thinking about the resoution to a problem I am trying to solve. I think thats one of the things about why I like woodworking.
I do see a problem arising with the economy and it might pronounce itself sometime next year. Maybe the Feds can prolong it past then which would be good so to keep on getting things in order.
I usually don’t do the grocery shopping but today I went with my wife and sorry I did. I can not believe that a steak cost $14 +. The woman at the counter wanted to know if she could help ma and I said not right now I am trying to get over the sticker shock. I ended up buying two turkeys for the price I would have paid for two steaks. I won’t be going to the grocery store again for a while. Once I get this cupboard built then time to spend the buck. GG gave me a URL for some long-term storage foods. I just might go with that concept and put them way in the back as last resort.
Shuffle up and deal.
Duane
GlenGary
Dec 02, 2007
Bob,
A bit about me.. I was an alcoholic and drug addict (active-and functioning) from around age 14 to 34 who tore up more than my share of sheet metal, got sued a few times and lost more than $60,000 to that, divorced twice by age 37, lost two homes about three cars-furniture and a boat, wore handcuffs as a fashion statement, knew judges on a first name basis. In 1988 I lived in a motel room with a hot plate driving a junker and 75% of every paycheck went to lawyers, alimony, or settlements. As well during those times I was nearly killed several times. I was a steelworker life long and had no college until age 42.
Enter ten years later, 1998. By then I had just moved into a custom built $250,000 home with 50% down, owned a small but profitable Internet business selling affiliate advertising on the side and used that to finance all the things that go with new home accessorizing. I owned five cars with a boat moored seasonally all outright and retirement came at 49 in 2002. I have not worked a day since even though my pension is 40%. My wealth increases every year. I’m not bragging. I’m simply saying that no one needs to let themselves be beat by anything because your life is in your hands. My history suggests that I’d die in poverty or in some jail, nut house or accident. Not retire young, healthy and well off.
You can plan and work those plans to your advantage if you think contingency. No, things never work out as planned. But planning presents options and options buy time, money or both which is often in fractional supply during emergencies. The less one plans-the less options and therefore the less wiggle room so the more higher chance of utter failure. I’ve been told I think too much. But I have yet to meet a situation that has paralyzed me for more than 24 hours before I spring into problem solving.
It is not what happens to anyone that determines outcome as much as what one does with that happening. There is more in one’s hands than most think.
When I quit using I found that no excuse was a good excuse for anything. There were only reasons that things happen and those reasons can be altered through personal power. There is no such word as can’t for most people. There is only “I won’t try” and more often; “I won’t even consider this.”
I may or may not move in a few years, but that will be a researched educated option that should I want to, I can move rather quickly on. Whether it is to build another home here in the US or leave altogether, the options are being studied.
Every choice, every decision for everyone means a whole lot more than folks think simply because everything touches everything in life. Allowing one’s self to be lead by advertising, peer pressure, popular culture or unchecked out facts, figures or experts simply means that one is lead—a follower. I never follow without questioning where I am being lead and why and whether there is a clear gain for me in it and a moral choice. I don’t leave the driving to others.
So far, this is where I am by choice. I have a strong 4-wheel drive vehicle with skid plates and mudder tires that are new-it is 100% paid for. 6, 5 gallon gas cans and a Corvette that is holding 21 gallons of stabilized treated fuel as storage. 22 gallons the same in my boat. Total 73 gallons in reserve plus what I can put in my driving vehicles-figure 105 gallons fuel. Using only the 4 wheel drive that puts me at a minimum 1,800 miles use. A case of motor oil, some extra hoses and belts and antifreeze plus grease.
About 18 full months of food including dairy-dry milk-butter, beef, chicken, pork, turkey, ham products, potatoes-four types, veggies, fruits freeze dried and dehydrated and wet packed and grains, sugars, vitamins, coffee, tea, eggs-648, too much to list. Just for long term storage. I added 80 more cans Friday night.
I gave up buying a newer car to accomplish this and mooring my boat for a year as well as dinners out. I diverted resources feeling now is the time.
A half a beef in the freezer and maybe 50 lbs pork, 25 poultry at any given time for daily use. Bags of frozen fruit and veggies I pack myself in the summer and fall.
Guns and ammo, a cross bow-the silent killer. Machetes and other useful tools that can double as quiet weapons. Two-way radios. Battery charger and inverter to use with car if necessary. Lanterns and oil lamps plus fuel and candles. Portable stove and portable grill. Radios flashlights etc. Ropes etc. Hand tools and mauls. Chain saws. Extra chains and a sharpener. Sleeping bags, firewood. First Aid supplies and whiskey for a pain killer, disinfectant alcohol, peroxide-food grade for water treatment and medicine. Yes you can drink it. Soaps, toilet paper and towels, shampoos, personal hygiene products. The list is long.
Neat things I’ve built which I care not to list lest someone flip out.
Now, the least that can happen is inflation in which case, at some point I will have food bought at much cheaper prices saving me money and I will not need for tools and emergency supplies for years and years. If I’m a good shot I could take out 3,000 deer plus pistol ammo and arrows. All of these things will cost more going forward. As well, there is the matter of precious metals and other investments.
Buying forward of anything these days saves money. Food is going up at a rapid clip as are other things. I lose nothing by planning except a little pleasure now which just might be worth it either way.
One might say I’m over reacting. I might counter that NOT reacting is no option at all. Luck always favors the prepared. The wise man built his house upon a rock. A strong foundation is everything in any endeavor.
Intelligence is not measured by numbers. It is measured by outcomes.
GlenGary
Duane
Dec 02, 2007
Interesting article from GoldSeek
“The credit massacre we are witnessing that began with the Fed, our banks and Wall Street with subprime and ALT-A loans has spread worldwide. Throughout Asia a massive flight to safety is underway as well as in Europe. Yields on 3-month deposits have fallen in some countries to 1%. If this isn’t a serious warning sign, we do not know what is. Even the Chinese are curbing lending, as they have to contend with dollar inflation. In Europe, Interbank Covered Bond Trading has been temporarily suspended. That is a trillion euro institutional market. They are AAA securities not subprime toxic waste. ”
This is an excellent site if you like to keep your finger on the pulse of what’s happening with the global economy . Several articles daily by the experts that are actuallly in the trenchs.
Bob
Dec 03, 2007
You’re quite a guy, Glen and right about pretty much everything. Your way of looking at things is coming from a slightly different angle than mine but we think along the same lines. I’ve tried to give as little personal information about myself as I can but I guess it’s time to throw some out there.
You seem to be in a little bit better shape financially than I am and you’ve got quite a bit more food stored than I do but other than that, we seem to be about on par as far as being prepared goes. I own some machinery and I’m pretty well set up with tools and practical things too. Food isn’t as big an issue for me because I have enough to survive a winter and after that, the area I live in is pretty rich with things to eat if you know how to find them. Also, like I said before, mobility is higher on my priority list.
My view of life is a bit different for a couple of reasons.
Number one is my experience with luck. “Luck favors the prepared” you say. Now I’m not going to say that I’ve had bad luck but good luck seems to avoid me unless it’s a situation where I should be dead. I think the gods want to keep me alive so they can keep poking me with a stick. I think I’m a real source of amusement for them.
I have carefully planned more things than I can remember and then within a few weeks of committing and taking the big risk, I wake up in an alternate reality where everything has changed and find out that all I knew to be true is now wrong. I’ve always looked back to see what I possibly could have missed and there is nothing there. Always something new that wasn’t there before. I could give examples but it would take to long. I always make the best of it and I’ve done okay, I’m satisfied with that, but I’ve never caught a break.
It has made me a chicken I guess, always one eye on the sky. I know it’s up there with my name on it. So anyway, I don’t put much faith in careful planning even though I know it’s necessary. It’s the paradox that is my life.
Number two is a short one. Don’t ever sit down with a bottle of Jack Daniels’ and ask yourself “Why? What’s it all about?” I did that once and I didn’t find much comfort in the answers that I came up with. Haven’t been the same since.
So anyway, I’m ready Glen, and I will put up one hell of a struggle just based on the principle of the thing but I haven’t got a clue what my struggle is really going to be against when the time comes. It could be anything, the way my luck goes. When I was a kid, I had a cowskull fall on my head. Knocked me out and gave me stitches. Is that bizarre or what? My whole life has been like that.
Too much information. Now they will know who I am.
Bob
Dec 03, 2007
I mean, sometimes I can relate to Frodo Baggins. He knows he’s got a long journey ahead and a tough job to do. He packs some food, wears his cloak and a pitchfork proof shirt. He’s got a sword that glows when there’s Orks around, got his best friend along, a ring to bind all rings and an uncorruptable soul. The guy is prepared! Then a five hundred pound spider swings down and fangs him with paralyzing venom. I mean, come on!!! How can you possibly see that coming and be prepared for it?!?? No wonder he was starting to feel defeated. Sometimes you just feel like you are beating your head against the wall.
I hope you guys are familiar with “The Lord Of The Rings” or that will just be crazy talk.
GlenGary
Dec 03, 2007
Duane,
I read gold-eagle quite regularily as well as the Daily Reckoning neither of which is popular main stream but both of which keep getting it right. There is crap a come’in at us all and everything is easy does it. Think about what we do and that’s near the best advice a person can have besides play it day to day if necessary. Not something to look forward to but something to try to survive in some way. Whether it goes KAAAA BOOM or is more of a whimper few can know. Slow death or lightning… no one knows.
Hey Bob,
It used to be that if there was a large chuckhole I was guaranteed to find it and bust a rim and rip a tire. If a cop went by he was looking for me and no one else and I’d snag the ticket or worse. If my car broke down it would always cost in the several hundreds like bent valves, messed up computer, shot tranny.. had a brake job cost me $800 in those days as everything was totally crap. Been there. If I had extra money something in the house would break for sure and cost me more than I could afford that’s why I learned to be a plumber, fix washer and dryer belts, replace controls and thermostats and anything else I can think of except TVs.
Had a TV fling me clean across a room and it was unplugged. Something about discharging a capacitor with my old cracked screw driver. Maybe that was a free shock treatment I got. Scared the living hell out of me.
As I changed, things changed for me.When I took time not to react to things in knee jerk or in anger or blow up at folks…measured responses or no responses at times my Karma? got better. When I took the time to help others when I could be doing something else things changed too. Somehow it improved my life. It made me see my problems as very small at times compared to the other person.
The one thing that really changed everything was when I began to look at everything as a blessing and be grateful no matter what came my way whether it was sh_t in the face or something good. When I figured out I was here to learn lifelong then things fell into place.
As for asking “WHY?” That is a loop question that one’s mind will produce some really rotten answers to. Why–can be asked to infinity with no real meaty answers. I figure the answer to WHY is because it is my turn and we all get turns. Who knows, the neighbors might have had three turns to my one or someone else got a turn and it killed them. I stopped asking why and replaced that with “What can I do about it?” That seems to work better. And…”What can I learn from this?” At least that way I gain something of value. I quit blaming others for things that just happen or worse yet, things I should have been aware of. If I did it I eat it and if someone else did it I figure they are aware of it without me saying anything. I usually know when I goof and having my face rubbed in it is not appreciated so I don’t go there either.
If I feel set upon or unlucky I take drives to poor neighborhoods or poor towns time forgot and look at what other folks live with 24X7 with seemingly no way out. It is a might depressing to do that, especially during the grey of winter. But it drives home the “But for the grace of God go I.”
I have it good. Yea I could be younger, prettier, richer, famous, accomplished, hung like a horse, but I could also be in a wheel chair, on life support, or dead or dirt poor or in prison or any number of things not so good. Things can always be worse or better. I’ll take it as it comes and say I’m lucky with where I am at today no matter what day it has been for years. I laugh at my bad luck often because it lightens up the load and keeps me centered away from my pity machine. I’d rather see that machine rust to dust.
Life comes along with the best of plans for sure. But giving up is like becoming a walking corpse with no purpose left. Waiting for bad stuff to happen takes up all the room of thinking today is a blessing.
I get off on noticing trees, grass, leaves, flowers, animals grazing, kids playing like they should, just spotting a pretty woman. I used to be blind to such things all wrapped up in gloom. I guess it was my choice what I saw.
Look for the good stuff in your life. Where you are at now. The people. The things you have done the places you have been the things in your marriage etc.. It’s there I’m sure of it. We can focus on what’s good or what’s bad, but not on both at once without becoming a mental ping-pong ball driving ourselves wacko.
When I fully realized what I have I quit buying things to feel better including vehicles. I quit dreaming of things I didn’t have and I redoubled my efforts to make my wife happy and protect what we now have. It became a toss up who takes care of who the most or who takes care of what we have the most. I guess devotion causes devotion. Love mirrors back. Purpose becomes shared as well.
That’s my two cents plus a few bucks thrown in for good measure.
It is now past three and I hear a bed calling my name.
As for the tiger…does he represent futility?
What Glen can’t see Glen can’t react to. I’m human I think. I do what I can and leave the rest to maybe fate?
What if I won the PowerBall lottery?
Glen
Bob
Dec 03, 2007
Yeah, don’t get me wrong Glen. I still have my sense of humor about the whole thing and there isn’t a day goes by that I don’t appreciate how good I have it. You just had to be there to appreciate some of my life-experiences. Like I said before though, I’ve always made the best of them and they all turned out okay in the end. Life has made me a very capable and adaptable human being. Wouldn’t want it any other way.
If you knew the series of events that led to a cowskull falling on my head, you might understand what I’m getting at with my “gods pokin’ at me” comment, but I’m grateful that it didn’t kill me. Damn lucky with that one! It was the start of my training.
My Grandpa always used to say “It gets worse”. That’s it, that’s all he would say. Didn’t make sense. I understand now.
Bob
Dec 03, 2007
Steve Earl said it all in two songs. “It’s All Up To You” and “My Old Friend The Blues”. Tom Petty got it right a few times too.
Things are looking up for me. I’ve been fixing up my old truck and now it’s just about ready to paint. I love painting. I also have a couple of big contracts on the horizon, doing the job I love to do. I’m a hated tree faller. Didn’t used to be a hated profession when I started. That’s another alternate reality that I woke up in one day. In the reality I used to live in, fallers were respected and appreciated and used to make good money, money that people felt was hard earned and well deserved because of the effort and physical risk. I miss that, but the job is still enjoyable.
Way to much information. This is going to bite me.
Kitco has a pretty good website for economic information too, by the way.
Bob
Dec 03, 2007
You stuck your screwdriver in a TV and got shocked. That’s a bummer because you thought you were safe when you unplugged it. But imagine how you would feel if you had spent two days beforehand, memorizing the book on How to Fix Your TV and then a week after your shock, the guy that wrote the book publishes an article about how he forgot to mention the capacitor in there that stores 15,000 volts and that you should exercise EXTREME CAUTION with it……That’s my life. It’s a real comedy! I love it.
Duane
Dec 03, 2007
So you guys got bit by the ole flyback transformer. Not realy funny (maybe just a little) but that would make a good weapon – stun gun concept. Usually, there is a rubber cup attached to the picture tube with a wire running to it from the flyback transformer which charges the picture tube. What you need to do is attach your ground wire and then get something insulated and something you can slip under the rubber so a discharge will take place. Or you can use yourself as part of the circuit
Obviously, a memorable event.
GlenGary
Dec 03, 2007
Bob-Duane,
You know they charge good money in the nutt house to shock folks?
I got a freebie I think. I got a free ride across the room too!
Almost as much fun as when I forgot what I was doing and pulled a
sparkplug wire on a running engine. Same result except I tore my
scalp on the hood latch as I did a flyby.
I use Kitco as my home page kitco.com/market. Must see what my future
holds in my money. Looks like “follow the bouncing ball.”
Trees, a few summers ago I had a very large tree die. About 2-3 feet thick.
I notched it with my chainsaw. I figured where I wanted it to go. BOOM! Hit perfect!
Except to say it crushed my gas can which spilled onto a smoldering butt and that area of
grass is just now showing promise. I heard BOOM the Kaa-FOOF! Crackle crackle crackle.
Did I mention the warped plastic fence rails that cost me $79?
The Happy Homeowner Strikes Again and yea yea yea… my fault. My wife still laughs at that.
A cord of wood, a smashed flat gas can, four warped fence rails and a 12X12 black smoldering patch
in the yard. We live we learn.
Glen
Duane
Dec 03, 2007
What are your thoughts on which one to purchase – gold or silver. Now gold is supposedly a tool to maintain ones wealth. I would like to think silver has to be part of that store of wealth also. I think silver will be the more popular comodity among the general populas. Although the value silver is fortified by industy I beleive there will be a demand for this metal when our US dollar become almost worthless. I am mixed in thought with,” should I save up and buy gold or purchase silver which is more in-line with my buget.” Thoughts?
Duane
Bob
Dec 03, 2007
Buy both if you can Duane. Silver would be handy for small purchases like food or a pair of boots but anything expensive would cost five pounds of silver or more and that wouldn’t be very handy to carry around. Gold takes up less space and is worth more for the weight that you might have to carry.
It’s like the difference between a five dollar bill and a thousand dollar bill. A fiver is handy for buying a jug of milk and a few thousand dollar bills buy you something big but it’s real inconvenient to try to pay for your milk with a thousand dollar bill and vice versa. That’s always been my idea anyway. I think they both will always be worth something.
I own a fair bit of lead and brass too.
GlenGary
Dec 04, 2007
Duane,
Buy silver! Silver is referred to as the poor man’s gold and is in much shorter supply than gold presently is and that situation will become more acute simply because silver is not recovered as scrap as often as gold is. When silver hits it’s highs it hits them as a percentage much more pronounced than gold as seen in the 1970s $1.75 to 1980s $50+ an ounce.
Most of the gold ever mined is still around in one form or another having been recovered.
Consider that silver trails gold by as much as 18 months in bull markets. Gold may really move while silver seems to twiddle it’s thumbs. I bought some gold to take advantage of this-sell it, buy more silver or use it to wait out the silver.
I bought 300 times more silver than gold based not only on historic performance, but on new citizen demand in countries like China and India whose middle-class can now afford more of it. As well there are medical uses for silver in burn units and advanced wound care, windshields have silver in them, cell phones, Ipods, computers and advanced circuitry, jewelry, some coinage, photography.
The gold I bought was in Swiss and French 100 year old never circulated coins and the silver I bought was in 100+ year old graded coins-some pedigreed, 90+ yr. old average coins maybe total together 900 oz, and various sized bars like 100 oz, 10 oz, packets of 10 1 oz. I pretty well covered the spectrum to balance what I have. Some cost $50 to $200 an ounce in 2002-2003 at market bottom while others were $5 at that time.
Some were bought with barter in mind like Roosevelt Dimes and Walking Liberty Halves or Franklin’s while others were bought for their rare condition.
When the government confiscated silver-gold in the early 1930s they allowed folks to keep any coin 60 years old or older in both gold and silver and they paid going market price for all nonexempt coins and bars. They didn’t simply just take it as some folks suggest. I have both decrees in my safe. After the confiscation, exempt coins flew through the roof in price. This is why the rich got richer. By and large they held collector coins. I took note of that in my research in the late 1990s and balanced out. (Another reason to like guns.)
The one thing I do know is that less than 2 percent of Americans hold any physical silver investments of any size that would be investment quality. When folks start hitting on it, it will go ballistic!
GlenGary
GlenGary
Dec 04, 2007
Right now a Walking Liberty Half fetches $6-7 and Roosevelt Dimes maybe $2. So if silver hit $50 these coins might fetch 3X their value now which would make them easy to barter with. Not too bulky for gas groceries.
Did anyone see what happened in Cleveland when Duetch Bank-Germany tried to foreclose on 14 subprime loans that were packaged as securities? A Federal Judge told them that since they did not have the mortgage papers, they could not prove legal claim to the properties. No one knows where the papers are as these loans were packaged several times without papers.
No papers-No Repo! Oh golly that’s got to hurt and you have to wonder how many billions of $$$ of loans are now uncollectable. I think in the interim, some folks might have some free houses.
Real Smart Bankers and Investors. What was that saying? Greed goeth before a fall. Yea, that was it. The hunter became the prey.
Glen
Duane
Dec 04, 2007
SO many mixed signals in the metal markets. The average guy like me has to go with silver and I am buying more and more on eBay. If your on top of the game one can get into a bid of $10 on $1 face value which includes shipping. Recently I won an auction for a roll of Franklin halves for $110 which included the shipping. I think that was reasonable. Not a steal but reasonable. I wouldn’t mind picking up a few one ounce coins of gold but unless I have a windfall I will just play the game and buy a little silver at a time – it adds up. Now if I had $500,000 + in the bank then gold would be my choice to reserve some type of wealth not in the US dollars. My hope is money that will be liquid and well received to buy that loaf of bread etc. will be silver.
Duane
Duane
Dec 11, 2007
1/4% interest rate drop – let the system alone so it can purge itself.
GlenGary
Dec 12, 2007
Purge? It’s going to do that in the near future no matter what these morons do.
They should indeed support the dollar. But when in the last 95 years have they
done that?
Glen
Duane
Dec 12, 2007
I know our local banks here are tightening up. They want everyone’s loans paid before they issue additional loans. What a concept. I think they are a day late and a dollar short.
GlenGary
Dec 12, 2007
Duane
The whole system is insane. Many folks eat out constantly in better than average places but are cash strapped. Complain about gas, groceries, credit card expenses, insurances and taxes.
They WILL NOT give up anything to gain stability. I’ve found that most folks won’t unless forced to do so which is what the banks are trying to force.
Responsibility I think they call that stuff.
Duane
Dec 12, 2007
GG
You are so right! They will live, “high on the hog,” until they have nothing and then wonder why they can’t meet the bills. It has truely become a way of life to spend what one doesn’t have. Without spending the economy does not get stimulated. Over the past 10 years the economy has without a doubt become stimulated and now the stimulation is wearing off and we are in a downer mood. Crash and burn comes to mind.
I do feel a little pitty for those who have lead, “sheltered lives,” and has nor survival skills outside of reading a book and name drop. I never forget where I come from and have no problem washing dishes or whatever it takes to earn a square meal.
For a percentage of those to sacrifice and go without for our next generation would be very hard. I honestly don’t think the majority of the human race knows how to give an honest day work for a good wage. Those days are gone. Kinda like riding a rollercoaster – hang on tight and enjoy the ride – not much else you can do but sit back and enjoy it. One thing that is good – the longer we take to relise the true problem – the more time that people like you and I have to prepare.
GlenGary
Dec 13, 2007
Duane
Up where I live and even where I worked, we had-have a lot of smug people that play headgames with other more honest folks. The put-downs, the snob crap, the I’m better than you are junior high attitude all wrapped nicely up in 30-40-50 something packages. It has never occurred to any of the idiots “But for the grace of God go I.” Any one of them could get sick or have a spouse or child get sick and wipe out their glass house in a heart beat.
What’s worse, they cannot slide the other person’s shoe on their foot for even a second. They are that one sided all they can see is me me me me me me.
One of these snob 40 something brain trusts, living in a $300,000 home complained last summer to me that her 2006 Volvo SUV was repoed. So I said; “If someone, say your employer did not pay you or pay you on time repeatedly, wouldn’t you be mad and strike out? Well, that’s what just happened. You broke your word and they took your truck. I don’t blame them. It was their right.”
There was no job loss there. No medical problems. No special stuff going on. In March that couple took a two week cruise and bragged all over about how nice it was while they were not paying for that truck.
She got furious! No great loss there. Now their house sits empty. Repoed in October because their ARM went up. Seems they can’t read and understand mortgage terms either.
Some folks I feel sorry for. But the folks who have good jobs, act like complete a-holes to others and then lose out. So what. They got that coming in spades. No tears for that. There are a ton of them out there. They drive like idiots, push and shove in stores, sigh and complain if they have to stand in line, talk down to others or ignore even words said to them. Too big for their britches. Snot boxes.
I ended a 12 year friendship a few years back over that stuff. We were at an upscale eatery that parks your car for you. We were early and I struck up a conversation with the young valet. I like people. I learn from people.
My then friend said and really loud, “Hey Glen, why you talking to him? You slumming it or what?” I was mortified. I gave the valet a $10, apologized for my now ex-pal, took my keys back, put my wife in the car and we went some place else to eat leaving the other couple standing there. I won’t have that.
That evening the pal called and said; “What the F Glen.” I told him, it is not my goal in life to shame or hurt someone for no damned reason. That’s mean. So do me a favor and forget you know me. I won’t hang with mean people. You don’t deserve friends. Haven’t seem him since August of 2005.
I have two neighbors I don’t speak to who treat service people and meter readers like dogs. Hurting anyone ‘just because’, going out into public and driving rude or being rude shows no class. When the number one traffic accident is assured clear distance, you know there are a ton of thoughtless, rude, classless clods running around out there that need a good clock cleaning.
GlenGary
Dec 14, 2007
A lot of folks think the US may resort to Marshal Law if the markets implode and whip on us a total police state. This ignores the fact that during Katrina our government could barely whip up troops to take control of New Orleans. It also ignores the fact that we have 700 military bases in 130 countries plus troops heavily deployed in the Mideast and does not take into consideration the many on Naval Ships or who support or fly aircraft, work office duties-command and control.
As well, our military is full of disgruntled people mistreated horribly in the last five years by the Pentagon and White House who have maxed out deployments, failed to equip properly the troops and once injured these folks are pretty much ignored as evidenced by the much higher than average suicide and even desertion rates. These are not happy campers.
To order this military to fire on their own population might just spark the mother of all mutinies! From the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to the rank and file of the military to the US Central Command no one seems to be happy with how things are run today. The stories are all over the place should one care to do a few Googles. And yea, there are Neocon lunatics running loose out there, but they are now in the minority and mostly given the Blah Blah Blah when they open their pie holes. They are seen as almost Nazis.
Best Advice For All Americans? “He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” (Luke 22:36 KJV) A balance of power is a powerful thing and a great deterrent. In a land as big as ours… well, if they cannot hold Iraq and Afghanistan with the best of tools against improvised tools and impoverished people, what would happen here? Imagination is a powerful thing when one is angry.
Further, there is no reason for the gov to try to confiscate weapons when one considers the actual gun statistics. “Most people are probably not aware of the fact that American citizens use a firearm to defend themselves more than 2.4 million times EVERY YEAR. That is more than 6,500 times EVERY DAY.
This means that, each year, firearms are used 60 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. Furthermore, of the 2.4 million self-defense cases, more than 192,000 are by women defending themselves against sexual assault. And in less than eight percent of those occasions is a shot actually fired. The vast majority of the time (92%), the mere presence of a firearm helps to avert a major crime from occurring. That is what Congressman Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD) concluded after extensive research. According to Rep. Bartlett, the number of defensive uses is four times the number of crimes reported committed with guns. ” by Chuck Baldwin
Then there is hunting, trap shooting-gun sports, varmit killing and just plinking.
The gun is an American ICON. To read the full transcript of my quoted text visit the link below to Read BUY A GUN NOW!
Silver is on a Dip… meaning, it’s on sale. Stock up while supplies last. Aint noth’in like real money when paper hits the skids.
Duane
Dec 14, 2007
GG
I live in the village of a small cow town. I can see advantages of living in a remote area. Hell if they envoke Marshal Law at least they would be increasing the unemployement figures. I can only imagine what a fuster Cluck that would be. They can’t even get the census right outside of controlling the general populas.
Silver is nose-diving but the end of this month into February it will be on the upswing. The time to buy is now for sure.
Duane
Dec 21, 2007
Think I’ll trade in some of my silver coins for a one ounce gold coin. This will depleat my silver stash a little but I will have the best of both world. Would like to at lease have 1 one ounce gold coin in my stash.
*****Wishing everyone Happy Holidays*****
Bob
Dec 21, 2007
Okay Glen. You’ve been saying some things that I can’t agree with and I’ll tell you why.
First of all, the World Trade Center. I talked about that under the “Poisoned Jawbreakers” heading. I took some physics and enjoy the subject. The collapse was completely possible just the way it happened. A few things would have had to go just right, but once the top of those towers moved one inch and realeased that huge amount of kinetic energy, those towers were coming down. Plus we can also assume that on a construction project that big, back in the seventies, they cut corners anywhere they could and those buildings probably weren’t up to designed specs. (I’ve done some union construction too.) We have Presidents that can’t diddle their interns or break in to a hotel without everybody finding out, and you think they could have gotten away with something like this? I don’t understand why, but people seem to be living in an X-Files la-la land.
Next, Iraq and Afghanistan. You seem to think that we are under no threat from that part of the world and that everybody living over there would just be happily doing their own thing if we would just stop interfering with them. That isn’t so.
We are infidels to them.
When you understand what that means, you will understand what we are facing. We have forgotten in this country, what religious belief is all about and can’t seem to comprehend what it is like to believe so strongly in something that you are willing sacrifice your life for it. Some in the government have recognized this threat to our way of life and for that they deserve some credit. But they obviously have no idea on how to deal with it and lack the conviction or moral fiber it would require to deal with it successfully. The war has achieved some results(I talked about that too, although none of those results will be permanent) but basically it has been a debacle.
As far as crying about the wounded and the dead, we lose more people than that in sensless vehicle accidents in one month. Probably have more people dropping dead from extreme fatness in any given week. Let’s keep it in perspective. As far as all of them being good people, if the military is like any other cross section of humanity, a lot of them were probably buttholes. I’m sure they don’t have a lock on goodness. That goes too for the “innocent” civilians over there. I’m sure that some good people are suffering in the Middle East but that is just because they are good people. Good people are persecuted no matter who is running the show.
About the resistance met by the Western military in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are not poor and they are not resorting to improvised weapons. They are well funded with oil money and well supplied by neighboring states, the Russians and the far East. Which leads me to your comments about the failure of marshal law in the US, when(not if) our economy collapses.
Katrina was a disaster in public order because of indecisiveness, buck passing, incompetence and the fact that our government, as a reflection of the people who elected it, really didn’t care about New Orleans. Bear in mind that the actual crisis period only lasted a few weeks. When the economy collapses, it will be permanent and global. Big difference. After six months or a year of starving and rioting, troops will be easy to come by if you need them. Find some arrogant loser with a chip on his shoulder who refuses to admit that his situation is his own fault, give him three squares a day, a weapon and a uniform and you have yourself an instant Gestapo. They are going to have a real hate on for the independent or the wealthy. That’s why I value my mobility.
One more thing. I don’t understand why you pay a premium for minted gold and silver coins. Won’t their value be determined by their precious metal content when the collapse happens? If you are buying food for your starving family, I’m sure that the black market grocer won’t give you a break because your silver is in the form of a 1780 coin. Am I wrong about that? Maybe I should look at coins, I don’t know.
Have a good Christmas Glen.
You too, Duane.
Bob
Dec 21, 2007
I just watched the Grapes of Wrath with Henry Fonda. Good movie.
GlenGary
Dec 21, 2007
Hi Bob,
So you believe that the TWO towers came down exactly the same in two neat little piles all by themselves and that two Arabs with no real flight experience perfectly aimed those two big jets to accomplish that deed on their first try?
Those must have been extremely talented guys. To go from electronic trainers and small prop driven planes to multiengine jet aircraft many times the size of their trainers and hit those towers at just the right spot TWICE to accomplish what looks like the neatest controlled implosion you could ever ask for… Yea, right.
I don’t buy that at all. Sorry, it doesn’t wash and with the Pentagon the hole was not near big enough for what they say happened nor does the wreckage support the story. Maybe you should look at this and think about it.
According to the Pentagon and our President, we have the most highly equipped best trained professional army, airforce etc in the world bar none. So, if we evaluate what has happened there are questions that nag and will not go away.
How many tanks and armored personnel carriers do the insurgents have? How many F-117′s, drones, fighters and bombers do they have or Blackhawks or artillery pieces or AWACS or Pentagon style planners or command and control outfits? Haven’t seen them with bullet proof vests or night vision goggles or advanced weapons, only Vietnam (or before) era AK-47s and old style rocket propelled grenades. Old 1960 to 1970 arms with cellphones and garage door openers to set off handmade explosives made from old artillery shells and bombs.
Sorry to point that out. So… why aren’t we doing better?
Gold and Silver…. Numismatics-collector gold and silver was not confiscated in 1932-33 when all other gold and silver was by The United States Government. If a coin was rare, 60 years old or older it was exempt.
To get off subject here. I have a 1987 Corvette in my garage with 51,000 original miles on it. The car is stunning with original paint. But it is an 87 car no less. I have been offered $22,000 for it and in 1992 I bought it at auction for a flat $15,000 with 26,000 miles on it. Why would someone want to pay $22,000 for a 1987 car? Condition? Rarity? They nuts?
I have ONE Morgan Silver Dollar that books for $1,700 as I write this. I paid $465 at auction in 2003 for it. That coin in 2003 would have made 1/3 of a house payment. Today it makes the whole payment plus $311 left over or about a house payment plus a month of groceries. Wealth preservation on steroids. Just four years.
I also have Pedigreed Coins see Binion Collection and USS South America. Low population coins never circulated bring high prices just like good art brings higher prices than department store prints.
Check the Ebay Prices. You can get several grand tied up in one coin. Heck, I’ll do it for you.
1893-O Morgan ICG GRADED MS-61 KEY DATE !!!
LOW MINTAGE!! FANTASTIC EYE APPEAL AWESOME COIN !!! $2,295 was the listed price. It’s only one ounce…but it’s a rare ounce.
I have a varied collection. I also have junk silver, rounds and bars. A bag of 1,350 Walking Liberty Halves. Peace Dollars, Rosevelt Dimes, Buffalo Nickles and of course gold coins. Some dirty, some clean and bright and some blast white and some uncirculated and graded. And then bars are bars and rounds are rounds and those carry a cost to manufacture on top of the sell prices one would see on Kitco for raw silver which nobody can buy except in options or if you had a way to smelt it.
Some folks like to have just barter coins while others collect fine coins while others like myself touch on it all and bulk it in bars as well. It is a matter of taste, and what you are trying to accomplish. I have graded coins I bought in 2002-2003 for $24 each and now fetch about $100 each. Metals preserve wealth like nothing else in my opinion. No silver or gold coin has ever gone to zero, but pot metal and paper has many times over. Many fortunes have been made in the metals market by buying low and selling high just like in stocks.
For instance, a St. Gaudens Gold Coin in 1920 sold for $20. Such a coin sold in 2002 for $390, today my book tells me I could get $1,400. I’ll wait until the market goes bonkers and sell it. I sell when I’m on the right side of Gov’t sponsored inflation.
Merry Christmas All
GlenGary
GlenGary
Dec 22, 2007
Bob,
So you believe that the TWO towers came down exactly the same in two neat little piles all by themselves and that two Arabs with no real flight experience perfectly aimed those two big jets to accomplish that deed on their first try?
Those must have been extremely talented guys. To go from electronic trainers and small prop driven planes to multiengine jet aircraft many times the size of their trainers and hit those towers at just the right spot TWICE to accomplish what looks like the neatest controlled implosion you could ever ask for… Yea, right.
I don’t buy that at all. Sorry, it doesn’t wash and with the Pentagon the hole was not near big enough for what they say happened nor does the wreckage support the story. Maybe you should look at this and think about it.
According to the Pentagon and our President, we have the most highly equipped best trained professional army, airforce etc in the world bar none. So, if we evaluate what has happened there are questions that nag and will not go away.
How many tanks and armored personnel carriers do the insurgents have? How many F-117′s, drones, fighters and bombers do they have or Blackhawks or artillery pieces or AWACS or Pentagon style planners or command and control outfits? Haven’t seen them with bullet proof vests or night vision goggles or advanced weapons, only Vietnam (or before) era AK-47s and old style rocket propelled grenades. Old 1960 to 1970 arms with cellphones and garage door openers to set off handmade explosives made from old artillery shells and bombs.
Sorry to point that out. So… why aren’t we doing better?
Gold and Silver…. Numismatics-collector gold and silver was not confiscated in 1932-33 when all other gold and silver was by The United States Government. If a coin was rare, 60 years old or older it was exempt.
To get off subject here. I have a 1987 Corvette in my garage with 51,000 original miles on it. The car is stunning with original paint. But it is an 87 car no less. I have been offered $22,000 for it and in 1992 I bought it at auction for a flat $15,000 with 26,000 miles on it. Why would someone want to pay $22,000 for a 1987 car? Condition? Rarity? They nuts?
I have ONE Morgan Silver Dollar that books for $1,700 as I write this. I paid $465 at auction in 2003 for it. That coin in 2003 would have made 1/3 of a house payment. Today it makes the whole payment plus $311 left over or about a house payment plus a month of groceries. Wealth preservation on steroids. Just four years.
I also have Pedigreed Coins see Binion Collection and USS South America. Low population coins never circulated bring high prices just like good art brings higher prices than department store prints.
Check the Ebay Prices. You can get several grand tied up in one coin. Heck, I’ll do it for you.
1893-O Morgan ICG GRADED MS-61 KEY DATE !!!
LOW MINTAGE!! FANTASTIC EYE APPEAL AWESOME COIN !!! $2,295 was the listed price. It’s only one ounce…but it’s a rare ounce.
I have a varied collection. I also have junk silver, rounds and bars. A bag of 1,350 Walking Liberty Halves. Peace Dollars, Rosevelt Dimes, Buffalo Nickles and of course gold coins. Some dirty, some clean and bright and some blast white and some uncirculated and graded. And then bars are bars and rounds are rounds and those carry a cost to manufacture on top of the sell prices one would see on Kitco for raw silver which nobody can buy except in options or if you had a way to smelt it.
Some folks like to have just barter coins while others collect fine coins while others like myself touch on it all and bulk it in bars as well. It is a matter of taste, and what you are trying to accomplish. I have graded coins I bought in 2002-2003 for $24 each and now fetch about $100 each. Metals preserve wealth like nothing else in my opinion. No silver or gold coin has ever gone to zero, but pot metal and paper has many times over. Many fortunes have been made in the metals market by buying low and selling high just like in stocks.
For instance, a St. Gaudens Gold Coin in 1920 sold for $20. Such a coin sold in 2002 for $390, today my book tells me I could get $1,400. I’ll wait until the market goes bonkers and sell it. I sell when I’m on the right side of Gov’t sponsored inflation.
Merry Christmas All
GlenGary
GlenGary
Dec 22, 2007
So you believe that the TWO towers came down exactly the same in two neat little piles all by themselves and that two Arabs with no real flight experience perfectly aimed those two big jets to accomplish that deed on their first try?
Those must have been extremely talented guys. To go from electronic trainers and small prop driven planes to multiengine jet aircraft many times the size of their trainers and hit those towers at just the right spot TWICE to accomplish what looks like the neatest controlled implosion you could ever ask for… Yea, right.
I don’t buy that at all. Sorry, it doesn’t wash and with the Pentagon the hole was not near big enough for what they say happened nor does the wreckage support the story. Maybe you should look at this and think about it.
According to the Pentagon and our President, we have the most highly equipped best trained professional army, airforce etc in the world bar none. So, if we evaluate what has happened there are questions that nag and will not go away.
How many tanks and armored personnel carriers do the insurgents have? How many F-117′s, drones, fighters and bombers do they have or Blackhawks or artillery pieces or AWACS or Pentagon style planners or command and control outfits? Haven’t seen them with bullet proof vests or night vision goggles or advanced weapons, only Vietnam (or before) era AK-47s and old style rocket propelled grenades. Old 1960 to 1970 arms with cellphones and garage door openers to set off handmade explosives made from old artillery shells and bombs.
Sorry to point that out. So… why aren’t we doing better?
Gold and Silver…. Numismatics-collector gold and silver was not confiscated in 1932-33 when all other gold and silver was by The United States Government. If a coin was rare, 60 years old or older it was exempt.
To get off subject here. I have a 1987 Corvette in my garage with 51,000 original miles on it. The car is stunning with original paint. But it is an 87 car no less. I have been offered $22,000 for it and in 1992 I bought it at auction for a flat $15,000 with 26,000 miles on it. Why would someone want to pay $22,000 for a 1987 car? Condition? Rarity? They nuts?
I have ONE Morgan Silver Dollar that books for $1,700 as I write this. I paid $465 at auction in 2003 for it. That coin in 2003 would have made 1/3 of a house payment. Today it makes the whole payment plus $311 left over or about a house payment plus a month of groceries. Wealth preservation on steroids. Just four years.
I also have Pedigreed Coins see Binion Collection and USS South America. Low population coins never circulated bring high prices just like good art brings higher prices than department store prints.
Check the Ebay Prices. You can get several grand tied up in one coin. Heck, I’ll do it for you.
1893-O Morgan ICG GRADED MS-61 KEY DATE !!!
LOW MINTAGE!! FANTASTIC EYE APPEAL AWESOME COIN !!! $2,295 was the listed price. It’s only one ounce…but it’s a rare ounce.
I have a varied collection. I also have junk silver, rounds and bars. A bag of 1,350 Walking Liberty Halves. Peace Dollars, Rosevelt Dimes, Buffalo Nickles and of course gold coins. Some dirty, some clean and bright and some blast white and some uncirculated and graded. And then bars are bars and rounds are rounds and those carry a cost to manufacture on top of the sell prices one would see on Kitco for raw silver which nobody can buy except in options or if you had a way to smelt it.
Some folks like to have just barter coins while others collect fine coins while others like myself touch on it all and bulk it in bars as well. It is a matter of taste, and what you are trying to accomplish. I have graded coins I bought in 2002-2003 for $24 each and now fetch about $100 each. Metals preserve wealth like nothing else in my opinion. No silver or gold coin has ever gone to zero, but pot metal and paper has many times over. Many fortunes have been made in the metals market by buying low and selling high just like in stocks.
For instance, a St. Gaudens Gold Coin in 1920 sold for $20. Such a coin sold in 2002 for $390, today my book tells me I could get $1,400. I’ll wait until the market goes bonkers and sell it. I sell when I’m on the right side of Gov’t sponsored inflation.
Merry Christmas All
GlenGary
GlenGary
Dec 22, 2007
Bob,
About the terrorists that hate us I have no doubt of that. BUT,
George Bush has left our borders near wide open since 911 so how
on earth do you explain that? We’ve all but rolled out a welcome mat.
That looks real funny… Any military person will tell you that you FIRST
protect your home or base before you go out and pick fights. Are we really
that stupid or is this state sponsored by the New World Order AKA Rich Bankers
manufacturing threats and attacks, manipulating populations through the media to
confiscate the wealth and freedom of every—body?
It is doing just that. Folks are getting poorer and their freedoms are going bye bye
while borders from nation to nation collapse. In Europe right now they are saying no passport
needed to go country to country while the United States, Mexico and Canada are looking straight
at One Country status with one currency after the dollar is destroyed by our own government.
I’m not about to buy that this ALL JUST HAPPENED THAT WAY! Too Fishy and the losers are the PEOPLE
not any fat cats..they all get what they want-Total Population Control, willing peons to do what they
say.
9-11 was treason pure and simple. Most everything since then has been UnConstitutional, dollar destructive,
wealth confiscating, middle America destructive with broken borders and the wealth shifted to the top 5% of the
country. And that is not open to debate. It is common Knowledge to most folks great frustration.
GlenGary
Dec 22, 2007
Bob,
On the other points. So you believe that the TWO towers came down exactly the same in two neat little piles all by themselves and that two Arabs with no real flight experience perfectly aimed those two big jets to accomplish that deed on their first try?
Those must have been extremely talented guys. To go from electronic trainers and small prop driven planes to multiengine jet aircraft many times the size of their trainers and hit those towers at just the right spot TWICE to accomplish what looks like the neatest controlled implosion you could ever ask for… Yea, right.
I don’t buy that at all. Sorry, it doesn’t wash and with the Pentagon the hole was not near big enough for what they say happened nor does the wreckage support the story. Maybe you should look at this and think about it.
According to the Pentagon and our President, we have the most highly equipped best trained professional army, airforce etc in the world bar none. So, if we evaluate what has happened there are questions that nag and will not go away.
How many tanks and armored personnel carriers do the insurgents have? How many F-117′s, drones, fighters and bombers do they have or Blackhawks or artillery pieces or AWACS or Pentagon style planners or command and control outfits? Haven’t seen them with bullet proof vests or night vision goggles or advanced weapons, only Vietnam (or before) era AK-47s and old style rocket propelled grenades. Old 1960 to 1970 arms with cellphones and garage door openers to set off handmade explosives made from old artillery shells and bombs.
Sorry to point that out. So… why aren’t we doing better?
Gold and Silver…. Numismatics-collector gold and silver was not confiscated in 1932-33 when all other gold and silver was by The United States Government. If a coin was rare, 60 years old or older it was exempt.
To get off subject here. I have a 1987 Corvette in my garage with 51,000 original miles on it. The car is stunning with original paint. But it is an 87 car no less. I have been offered $22,000 for it and in 1992 I bought it at auction for a flat $15,000 with 26,000 miles on it. Why would someone want to pay $22,000 for a 1987 car? Condition? Rarity? They nuts?
I have ONE Morgan Silver Dollar that books for $1,700 as I write this. I paid $465 at auction in 2003 for it. That coin in 2003 would have made 1/3 of a house payment. Today it makes the whole payment plus $311 left over or about a house payment plus a month of groceries. Wealth preservation on steroids. Just four years.
I also have Pedigreed Coins see Binion Collection and USS South America. Low population coins never circulated bring high prices just like good art brings higher prices than department store prints.
Check the Ebay Prices. You can get several grand tied up in one coin. Heck, I’ll do it for you.
1893-O Morgan ICG GRADED MS-61 KEY DATE !!!
LOW MINTAGE!! FANTASTIC EYE APPEAL AWESOME COIN !!! $2,295 was the listed price. It’s only one ounce…but it’s a rare ounce.
I have a varied collection. I also have junk silver, rounds and bars. A bag of 1,350 Walking Liberty Halves. Peace Dollars, Rosevelt Dimes, Buffalo Nickles and of course gold coins. Some dirty, some clean and bright and some blast white and some uncirculated and graded. And then bars are bars and rounds are rounds and those carry a cost to manufacture on top of the sell prices one would see on Kitco for raw silver which nobody can buy except in options or if you had a way to smelt it.
Some folks like to have just barter coins while others collect fine coins while others like myself touch on it all and bulk it in bars as well. It is a matter of taste, and what you are trying to accomplish. I have graded coins I bought in 2002-2003 for $24 each and now fetch about $100 each. Metals preserve wealth like nothing else in my opinion. No silver or gold coin has ever gone to zero, but pot metal and paper has many times over. Many fortunes have been made in the metals market by buying low and selling high just like in stocks.
For instance, a St. Gaudens Gold Coin in 1920 sold for $20. Such a coin sold in 2002 for $390, today my book tells me I could get $1,400. I’ll wait until the market goes bonkers and sell it. I sell when I’m on the right side of Gov’t sponsored inflation.
Merry Christmas All
GlenGary
GlenGary
Dec 22, 2007
Per>I don’t understand why you pay a premium for minted gold and silver coins. Won’t their value be determined by their precious metal content when the collapse happens? If you are buying food for your starving family, I’m sure that the black market grocer won’t give you a break because your silver is in the form of a 1780 coin. Am I wrong about that? Maybe I should look at coins, I don’t know.
Bob
Dec 22, 2007
After re-reading my comment about the war casualties, I feel that, as it stands, it sounds pretty callous. I’d like to elaborate a little.
As far as I know, all the personnel over there at this point are volunteers. They knew what they were signing up for when they went in and they knew that they were going to be put in harm’s way. They believed in what they were doing or they wouldn’t or shouldn’t have been there. If they’ve been hurt or killed in the line of duty, then they and their families should have been prepared for that. They were willing to put their life and limb on the line for what they thought was right. That puts them in the company of the few in this world who live with a sense of purpose that goes beyond their own selfish interest. I have nothing but respect for that.(Terrorists included, even if I don’t like the bastards.) Maybe those soldiers just wanted to live on the edge and experience life or death situations. I respect that too. Even if some of them were buttholes, they were my kind of buttholes and I admire their adventurous spirit.
We all have to go sometime, and they picked a better way than being drunk behind the wheel, or strung out on crack, living off the system and dying in an alley, or being so fat that your heart gives out. We lose more people like that in America, than we lose soldiers.
That’s what I was trying to say.
If you agree that a threat exists from people who hate us(people so filled with blind hate that they are willing to blow themselves up to take a few of us out), how can you say that our borders have been thrown wide open if we haven’t experienced an attack since 2001? I agree that the measures taken to prevent such an attack have cost us dearly and will definitely not hold up in the long run but I can only make the observation that those measures must have had some effect in the short term. Simply because there hasn’t been an attack since 2001. Has the Government used this situation to take away our freedoms?
I will say this one more time, as simply as I can.
You cannot take freedom away from a free man. That is an oxymoron. If we accept life in chains then we are not free and never were. Free men do not make good slaves. Live free………OR DIE.
We have done this to ourselves through greed, laziness and fear. The government is just of the people and by the people. The finger we point at them is just like the Uncle Sam poster. Bankers are rich because we made them that way. Governments are all powerful because we allow them to be so.
But I still think it was impossible for the government to have orchestrated 9/11 even if they had wanted to. Too many people involved in that scenario. People tend to screw up and publicly blame somebody else. It all would have come out by now. Let’s stop believing in the men in black and start looking at humanity for what it really is.
Christmas is coming! I’m so excited. You’re a good man Glen.
GlenGary
Dec 23, 2007
Bob,
I fault our folks for being stupid and ill informed and letting things get out of hand as they thought that importance of things like religion, gays etc was earth shaking enough to ignore border security and port security in a time of war and to erroneously believe that Iraq had anything to do with 9-11.
I fault folks for electing a complete imbecile for President twice, a man who has no ethics, no morals, no sense of justice and certainly no sense of Constitutional freedom as the leader of a Republic. Crass, callous and ignorant. If defined by the laws and conventions and treaties going back 90 years forward, a war criminal to boot.
We love our soldiers. But does our leader love and respect our soldiers?
What does Bush really think of our soldiers? Actions speak louder than silver tongued lies from pompous asses. In 2007 he,,,,,,,,,,
1. Required that soldiers discharged early because of battlefield injuries repay their enlistment bonuses. Congress had to stop this.
2. Sent the longest-serving National Guard unit home after 729 days of combat in Iraq – one day shy of the 730 that the soldiers needed to qualify for education benefits.
3. Omitted 20,000 cases of brain trauma from the official tally of troops injured in Iraq.
4. Denied medical benefits to 22,000 veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress by discharging them for having enlisted with “pre-existing personality disorders”.
Many of these soldiers have killed themselves.
Use folks up like a rubber and throw them away said the Christian President. Bob, how do you explain that brand of troop support?
From no armored Humvees, to no body armor going in to defective equipment, these folks running this thing caused casualties and their intelligence on the ways of the people in Iraq was myopic at best. Misread nearly everything.
From CIA agents to the rights of Americans to troops serving at HIS pleasure this man treats folks like disposable diapers. He is so one sided he is psychotic. Our very own Hitler demanding his way or the highway in the face of a complete policy failure while blaming anyone who isn’t him.
As for 9-11, google Patriots for 9-11. 240 Scientists, engineers believe the same as I do and many military officers have come out as well as folks that were there that fateful day. Questions deserve answers.
As for the terrorists being well armed… I have yet to see the terrorists employ drones nor drive up in tanks and fly over in Blackhawks or bomb us using F-117s or F-16s or employ night vision or body armor but rather improvise bombs using old artillery shells, garage door openers and cellphones and use 1960-1970 era Soviet Bloc or Chinese AK-47s and older than dirt rocket propelled grenades like the Viet Cong used.
Their tools are old and improvised and their training at most not very professional at all when compared with highly trained troops with armor, high tech drones, state of the art technology and massive air support. Rag-tag army made up of volunteers much like our folks during the Revolutionary War.
As for our troops, yes some believe in this thing and some do not as they see how very open ended this has become like the 100 years war with fighting as the only real mission and not winning, nor losing, just fighting never ending in a place the population mostly wants them to leave. The mission was over when they found no WMDs. That was the mission Stated.
As for fighting terrorists there so we don’t fight them here. So we take over a country like Iraq and in the midst of a quiet population turn their country into a battlefield killing their civilians-their children, their families? That’s moral?
What if China took the United States over to create the battlefield to fight the Russians? Oh Oh Oh… but that’s different! How so?
The ideas don’t wash in the face of the huge troop carriers the insurgents would use to invade us? Their aircraft carriers? Their subs? Their tanks?
Come on… we are such cowards that we will kill anyone rather than risk breaking a nail here in the US and that is the truth. One bomb and Ma and Pa America vote to kill 100s of 1000s of folks 6000 miles away and that’s the truth. Don’t bother us with the details… just go kill people and that’s the truth.
It is never religion as much as freedom to thrive. In Dubai their population wants nothing of war because folks make money. In Kuwait the same, in Egypt the same, in Saudi Arabia the same. Iraq was happy until we came along. The reason is disproportionate wealth and a feeling you do not have control of your own destiny whether it is religious as part of the reason and wealth as the other part, folks with a little cash in their pockets rarely get bent and kill others.
Now, why have our troops and English troops and French troops been in that region for over 100 years? MONEY ad RESOURCES…. their money meaning the Arabs money and their resources …Meaning Arab resources… to exploit, to rob, to own. What if Russia or China based in the US for 100 years? Would we not try to fight them… get rid of them?
Funny how myopic Americans are. Everything belongs to us.
Why did Japan attack Pearl Harbor? Clue… it’s black, sticky and gooey. Why did Hitler send Rommel into the Mid East? Clue, it’s black, sticky and gooey. And in both cases it did not belong to Japan, Germany, England or…………..US! Colony comes to mind. From Africa to India to China exploitive colonies have existed and folks get mad. Vietnam was a French Colony. Folks got mad.
If we were a colony…wait we were! Folks got mad and armed and fought!
Merry Christmas
GlenGary
Bob
Dec 24, 2007
Iraq was happy until we came along? I have good arguments for all your points Glen, but really, they don’t matter.
It has taken me a lot of time and a lot of fun and misery to see the world the way I do. We are not the good guys and we are not the bad guys. We are just the decendants of people who thought up a good system of government. That system has decayed over the years and here we are. Now we are faced with unpleasant choices. I don’t want to be run by the communist Chinese. I don’t want to pray to Allah four times a day and force my kids to wear a burkha. I don’t want to support a corrupt government, but it is the lesser of all evils, at this point. Throw this high horse, morality bullshit out the window and let’s start looking at the world for what it is. Our system is far from perfect but it is better than the alternatives at this point. (Panama and Canada and Denmark don’t count as alternatives, because when the US goes down, they will too.)
In all honesty, I don’t like Bush either, but he is President. You can’t have the crew badmouthing the captain and bucking the chain of command or the whole ship is in trouble. Change the captain if you want, but there has to be dicipline and respect for authority or the ship will be adrift without purpose. It doesn’t take long for someone else to take over a ship like that and then the whole crew is screwed.
We’d better wake up and start appreciating the things we do have and start scratching like hell to hang on to them for as long as we can. Not because we are right or deserving or morally superior but because it’s all ours and when we can’t hang on to it anymore, the rest of the world is going to kick the crap out of us and take it for themselves. They won’t deserve it any more than we do, but that’s just the way it is. When our government goes down we won’t see things this good for a long time, if ever.
We have to work to change things and the biggest change needs to be in the average person. Change people and the government will follow. Throw this Walt Disney, do-gooder, white man guilt trip crap in the garbage where it belongs and get back to basics. The real world, the natural world is a vicious and unforgiving place and there is no morality and justice. It is simply survival of the fittest and to the victor go the spoils.
I must be feeling the Christmas spirit.
susan28
Dec 24, 2007
‘course we could always give up our obsession with “sending messages” to children and end the war on drugs, but no: better the economy collapse than appear “soft on freedom” .. oops, i mean crime..
GlenGary
Dec 24, 2007
Good Day Bob,
It was our government who damned Russia while feeding them our wheat and damned China as communist while giving them our jobs, technology and money and selling us out while consumers in their own greed and investors in their greed kept it all going. I-myself and many paid with our jobs and benefits and for many pensions. We tried to change minds and were scoffed at. We ran campaigns of Just Buy American and got pushed aside and I guess now it’s everyone else’s turn to feel the sting.
The truth is that Iraq was NOT a threat to anyone here and that going there was to beat a hornet’s nest with a stick which was something I wrote to Letters To Editors long before we attacked them as I said it will simply be an enlistment poster for every maniac in the region to shoot Americans. I rest my case.
It is Unconstitutional to attack a sovereign nation unless attacked first by that sovereign nation. What part of that did our leaders miss? Help me with this. Al Qaeda was Saddam’s enemy as they stood to threaten HIS power in the region.
Al Qaeda-meaning “The Base” which is a computer base of operatives largely created by the CIA during the Russian Afghan War and funded by the CIA Osama Bin Laden was our asset in the region during that time.
During the Iraq invasion of Kuwait, Bin Laden went to the Saudis and asked for permission and material support to drive Saddam back into Iraq. He was denied and sent packing. Bin Laden was trying to avoid Americans setting foot in the most Holy Land of Islam-Saudi Arabia which was seen as blasphemy. Therein lies the rub for the first American Trade Center Bombing.
After the second bombing, we had folks standing in line to lie to Americans telling of horrors for us that were complete fantasy at a time when cool heads needed to prevail and any true leader would have known this and appreciated the importance of not deploying assets where they were not called for, but rather to wait to see where the assets could do the most good. Help me with that Bob. They shot their wad before a woman was even in the room!
Blow Back. Our foreign policy in that region put warships in ports regularly when there was a known rub going back 65 years. It put Americans working jobs that displaced locals going back 65 years and it rubbed our culture and our beliefs in a totally opposite culture’s face going back 65 years and yes! Yes! Yes! Folks got sick of it and we continued to just keep doing it. Then we deploy troops to their Holy Land in direct opposition to the people of that region. Screw the Saudi Family, we knew what the mood was and we didn’t care. Another rub.
The truth is that arrogance catches up. The truth is that those folks over there are not as stupid as we thought or as powerless as we thought and the games we have played with Islam and Communism for decades has finally caught up and we need LEADERS that can reverse the trend instead of continuing the trend and it is more than clear that Reagan, Bush One, Clinton and Bush Two have done the United States a grave injustice and grave harm and to stand behind this is to be a fool.
Put the shoe on the other foot. What if Islamic Warships visited American Ports for 65 years to capitalize on our natural resources, they displaced our workers sort of like Mexican illegals today and they messed with our religion and culture and foreign and domestic affairs…. See the rub? Are you that blind?
Right now Americans are furious about Mexican Illegals taking our jobs, our money from taxes and suppressing wages and not speaking English etc etc, so you cannot connect the dots….. We are the only one’s in the world to have a right to notice anything?
Americans do no research, do not care until things hit critical mass and then panic and refuse to see the entire playing field or learn their enemy and we paid for it dearly in Vietnam and now in Iraq and Russia and China will make a monkey out of us long before Islam can.
Russia is debt free and runs a huge surplus and China holds the keys to our future. And we did this to ourselves by sleeping with dogs. Now we have fleas and we are broke our military wasted on a non-threat our money spent on air.
We have two countries that dislike us sitting looking at us that are nuclear capable and strong economically and neither is Islamic. Islam is no real threat when compared to a few billion Chinese and Putin and his upgraded military machine. Islam doesn’t have the logistics or arms to beat America much less the manpower. Why do you think they are terrorists?
Use your brains here. Russia and China will never allow Islam to threaten their hold on power. Both of those countries are ruthless in military matters. They are sitting back enjoying our stupid antics as we weaken ourselves by deploying to a region we should have the sense to stay out of and let cool down. But we have no sense. Leaving is something we have never tried because of oil and profiteering.
Funny, we spent 58,000 lives and billions of dollars trying to convert Vietnam to our way and years after we left they were unified, capitalized and became good world trade partners without being conquered by us. I guess there is no lesson there.
I might add that China and Russia came to that on their own as well. What lesson can you glean from that? Do we force things or let time and nature take it’s course? What is the Christian way? What does our Constitution say? What is most humanistic? What is the most supportive of being seen as leaders? Bayonets in backs pushing and prodding cannot be seen as leading. Folks miss that.
We are not a master race. We are like everyone else on the face of the earth muddling our way through the hazards of life.
Merry Christmas
GlenGary
Bob
Dec 24, 2007
Hey. I agree with you Glen. We’ve had eighty years of one screwup after another. Mistakes have compounded and the whole situation is a mess. What I’m saying is that there is no going back and fixing it. All of our choices going forward are unpleasant. I think that what hurts us the most is realizing that we are not the good guys anymore. We are just like everybody else. We’re stupid, stupid, stupid! Okay…….but what do we do now?
Do we fold our hand, apologize to everybody and let them do the Rodney King on us or do we try to stay on top any way we can to prolong our good fortune?
No matter who takes over from us, they aren’t going to deserve the top spot anymore than ourselves. China? Russia? They will treat the world even worse than we do.
I’m just saying that beating ourselves up for past mistakes and nitpicking our leaders and bickering and arguing is only making our situation worse. We have to figure out a way to stay on top because we are really going to get kicked when we go down. It’s all a real tragedy. We had something pretty good here. I don’t want to be responsible for mistakes that I didn’t make and wouldn’t have made but that is the way it is.
What a time to be talking about this. I need to go watch “It’s a Wonderful Life”.
Bob
Dec 24, 2007
I basically agree with you in principle, we’re just at odds on some of the details. They don’t really matter.
But what do we do now? Do you want to see the world masses picking over the things that used to mean something to us? This nation did some pretty decent things in it’s day but the world will crap on our monuments when they can, just for the fun of it. We won’t be on top when this is over.
GlenGary
Dec 25, 2007
Hi Bob,
I want these Leader type a-holes to level with the American people like Lyndon Johnson did not do when he lied about the Gulf of Tonkin or George didn’t do when he lied about Iraq. (I know..good luck with that fantasy.)
We kid ourselves about being a free people when we allow ourselves to be continually lied to and manipulated by our elected leaders while they not only steal us blind job, dollar and tax-wise, but send our young to die on wild goose chases that benefit KBR, Boeing, McDonald-Douglas, Raytheon, Hummer and all the other companies that rape into our three quarter trillion dollar defense budget.
War is big business and the reasons for war are tainted by the motivations of profit as our foreign policy is tainted by former government and military folks who join defense companies and oil companies for many times their former pay. To them it is just good business to have think tanks demonize former allies and create smoke where there is no fire and present lies as truth to boost profits. To those companies cost-benefit does not include cost in lives or cost to the taxpayers in things like inflation or social costs. They don’t care as long as they get paid.
How do we stay on top? Quit threatening every country we disagree with and put the nose to the true threats. Put a cork in our borders and deport folks here who are illegal. Quit harboring other country’s criminals. Fire the think tanks and let the FBI and CIA do their job without Washington politics and money interference and listen to the GAO for a change, get rid of Homeland Security and let the former agencies do their missions without micromanagement and bureaucratic hogwash.
Make a law to prevent military leaders and former elected officials as well as former government executives from working for or investing in defense contractors. It smells to high heaven like an old Soviet style government that we allow this. Even a hint of collusion has no place in a free Republic.
We have allowed graft and fraud and theft and lies and therefore the murder of other people in other countries as well as the slaughter of our own as we have let folks lies direct our opinions and with the Internet there is no real reason that folks do not know what the questions are and what the answers should be. They refuse to look until the sh_t hits the fan. We have met the enemy and it is us!
This government has some good people in it and our military has some fine leaders presently muzzled by the power structure in place. I think if they knew that Americans are sick to death of business as usual they would become vocal and animated. But until we get a complete grass roots growing of nads their best bet for self-preservation is continued silence.
Any big economic upheaval should be welcomed at this point as it will put all eyes on this circus we have going on here. Nothing like loss and unhappiness to get folks awake, alert, grumpy and focused.
The dollar is dropping on the foreign exchanges this morning and oil is about to touch $95. I think 2008 will be the wakeup call for most of our countrymen and the fun will begin as no one will be happy with anything from Washington or the upper few percent of this country. I smell a cultural mess.
I watched “It’s a Wonderful Life” for probably the four dozen’th time. I still love that movie and the old guy Potter…. that kind of guy or attitude has made a reentry from the wings these days more than ever. Shame really.
Too bad they don’t make movies today with enduring moral messages like they did back then without slaughtering half a city to do it.
Happy Christmas and don’t eat yourself sick
like I did on the 23rd…my stomach still hurts
from a cement block cheese cake.
Glen
susan28
Dec 25, 2007
“Any big economic upheaval should be welcomed at this point as it will put all eyes on this circus we have going on here. Nothing like loss and unhappiness to get folks awake, alert, grumpy and focused”.
my thoughts exactly. nothing so liberating as chaos. it’ll be hell, but the state, in finally ceasing to pretend it’s protecting any interest but its own, will at least become *honest*, and that will be refreshing, albeit horrifying. in the immortal words of Rusty Nail from “Joyride”, “lookin’ forward to the storm; keeps everyone inside, washes everything clean..” ..
i almost voted for Bush last election just to speed up the process, but even in my darkest moment i couldn’t be that cynical (i wrote in NOTA). but it’s a perfect example of the precise sentiment you expressed above. it was also a malicious impulse: the inclination to punish the stupid by helping them get exactly what they want.
when i was young i had a bb gun. oneday, as usual, the local bullies converged on me like ducks on a piece of popcorn as they did anytime i had anything good, even though i was always willing to share. but they’d settle for nothing less than leaving me in tears of rage and frustration (and, in those days, confusion, since i’d not yet lost my faith both in God and humanity).
so they pounce on me – no less than five of them – and are grabbing for it, but tenacious, justice-loving, liberty-loving little me preferred being bloodied up to submitting to their tyranny. i knew they always won, but i took some small satisfaction in making their victories *hurt* as much as possible. so as they’re beating on me and i’m refusing to let go, they decide to settle for trying to get a pull in on the trigger. one of them – neck veins bulging and wild, feral eyes exploding with mob hysteria – manages to get a finger in the trigger guard, but my finger’s still in the way, guarding the trigger. i see the muzzle’s pointed at one of their faces (their doing, not mine, i was just trying to hold onto what was mine), and i say, “no don’t you’ll shoot him!!”. finally i ask myself why i’m suffering pain just to stop one of them from getting shot, and i let go the gun, throwing my arms i the air. immediately the little lout pulls the trigger and shoots his fellow fascist in the face, putting his eye out. they all immediately begin screaming i did it, but thankfully my mom knew better of me.
the moral? why waste your warnings on those who don’t want the truth, and mean you nothing but harm for your efforts? if a bunch of sheep wanna fling themselves headlong into the meat grinder, let ‘em.. then dine on their miserable carcasses..
i would caution, however, that it won’t come in the form of “roundups” as some of us might wish for (this would unify the public, and that wouldn’t do..). rather it will be slow economic strangulation – just slow enough for us to drop off one person or family at a time. you won’t be herded onto a prison train, you’ll be arrested for stealing a loaf of bread by a common beat cop, the killing of which will brand you not as a patriot but as a murderer, and “decent society” will applaud your execution, deluded as they are into believing it’s their interests the police are protecting until it finally becomes their turn, at which point it will be too late.
*that* is how fascicsm will come to America. not religiously,
not nationalistically (though those will pave the way) just slowwwwwwwlyyyy, its motion as steely as a minute hand moving inexorably toward midnight..
but unlike in the past, their victory will be permanent. i believe in the future, working-class drones will be genetically engineered a la Brave New World. we can only hope the selfishness of the elites causes them to really do something stupid enough to set us back to the stoneage technologically, which will even the playing field and we can have at it again. but as long as technology as we know it continues to progress, their grip on society will only tighten and freedom will be only for the few.
what *will* be interesting, though, is watching the upper 1% re-stratify when the rest of us are gone. rationalising and forming new religions and every other manner of self-righteous justification to “prove” who was “meant” to be the new upper 1% and who the new “n-words”. like all revolutions,
the ruling-class one will eat its own, and that’ll be cute to watch. just wish i could do it from another planet..
GlenGary
Dec 25, 2007
Hello Susan,
WOW! I could not agree more! Right now families are falling one by one as this eats it’s way up the chain to those who not so long ago saw themselves egotistically has having things all sewed up and nothing could touch them until maybe their interest rates began spiking, gas doubled, utilities went bonkers as food squeezed as raises not forthcoming or that prized job was eliminated and the true reality of their total denial came knocking on their doors. UT-OH!
The rich 1% will live in guarded compounds prisoners of their own success afraid to venture out among those who will blame them for their greed. Their estates armed camps to keep out those hungry or seething with anger. Fitting really.
As for stealing and being caught. Prison industries have been running airline reservations and AT&T call centers and catalogue phones for quite a few years because prisoners are cheap labor. The more prisoners the larger the skilled resource and bigger the profit and motive. Prison Planet is what we may well become. We took a lesson from China on that one.
Many people remind me of chained dogs who think they are free running until the end of the chain breaks their necks and it can be comical to watch. You can warn them and even plead with them, but it IS them who makes the decisions and will reap the pain. In my life I’ve found it unnecessary to get even with anyone simply because given time folks generally will screw themselves blue without me wasting any energy or thought on it. Just stand clear and watch.
I think 2008 is the beginning of the end for those who thought this implosion avoidable. Clocks will be cleaned for sure.
Your words were profound Susan
GlenGary
Bob
Dec 26, 2007
It seems that you are both still guilty of thinking that this collapse is going to happen in a vacuum. There are a number of strong outside forces that are going to act on us when we are in a weakened state.
Don’t underestimate the Moslems. They are within five or ten years of controlling all of Europe, and they did it without an official army, just by taking advantage of loose immigration policies and the fact that Europeans no longer feel the need to reproduce. They will soon democratically control most of those governments and all resources that go with them.
The Chinese, I feel, have been planning this for years. This is their point of view.
The people want freedom and capitalism? Let’s give them some, but we’ll control it. We’ll give them just enough for them to learn to like it and depend on it. In the process of giving the people these things, we will intentionally use our capitalist movement to destroy the world economy by using the worlds’ own greed against it. When capitalism dies, the Chinese people will suffer too but we will point it out as the fault of the Americans and the rest of the free world. We will have an enemy to point our army at and a unified, angry and newly refreshed communist China behind it. What army? The largest one in the world.
Their birth control policies have created a huge excess of young men with no hope of having a wife and family because there are no young Chinese women. Can you spell F R U S T R A T I O N? What better country to take over than the one full of Britneys and Parises and Angelinas wiggling all over the place? Put a rifle in the hands of these men and they’ll be in the boat before the red paint dries on the hull. The Chinese need room and they need resources.
A quick alliance with the new European-Arab nations and the Chinese have a ready made consumer for their new industrial age. Russia will play a part in this but only as the big dumb goof with a club that they take along to do the dirty jobs.
Within a year of our economic collapse, the Chinese will take Tiawan and that will be the first step. We will be too weak and indecisive to do anything about it. The Russians will feel left out and so to bring them onside and win favor with the Moslems, Russia will be given the dirty job of wiping Israel off the map. After that, it is fair to say that all hell will break loose and it is tough to say how it will play out because there are a lot of variables.
I used to play Risk when I was a kid. I think that’s what it was called. The one where you move armies around and take over the world.
GlenGary
Dec 26, 2007
Bob,
For the same reason you think China will convert to consumerism the Muslims in Europe are doing just that. Noting the vacuum statement, nothing happens in a vacuum. We have Muslim soldiers in the U.S. Military today. We have Muslims running grocery stores in every city in the US, owning motels, beach shops and working in every field you can name but these are progressive Muslims…. Most of the European Muslims are progressives as well and they like their cars, big screen TVs, nice homes and better incomes as well as the ability to send their kids to college… Hey! Just like us. Go figure. Economics level the playing field of desires.
You cannot equate radical Islam with moderate Islam any more than you can link our nutso Armageddon Christians with the average American on the street that is worried sick about what crazy things these loons will do next in the name of God. The link is not there in either case. The most vocal in any group are never the “mean” of the group, but rather the voice drowning out the more peaceful. The term ‘Silent Majority’ comes to mind.
As for world politics. World politics are liquid and flow and ebb constantly to changing needs and flux goals. When we helped toss out the leader of Iran in 1953 we fell in love with the Shah to the consternation of the majority of Iranians. When the Shah was deposed in 1979 we fell in Love with Saddam who went to war with Iran. We had TV interviews run showing us what a nice progressive guy Saddam was. These things suited our needs for power in the region.
We fell out of Saddam’s bed in 1990, demonized him as we had demonized Iran a decade earlier the fickle lovers that we are, and went back to the sack with Iraq thinking our love making techniques would win out without him. Old baggage and old issues were still there like a woman scorned.
The political map is fraught with strange bedfellows and alliances of convenience sort of like friends with benefits and who we bed today is who we may spurn by even this evening-tonight so to draw and quarter the world with military alliances is a future that I must admit no one can see.
We cannot lump all Muslims into radical Islam unless you are comfortable being lumped in with crazy Neocons. I consider myself a Christian but I do not believe in organized religion therefore I am not a Catholic or Baptist or Lutheran or fill in the blank. I do not appreciate being lumped in with crazy people haters and I doubt many Muslims enjoy those labels either.
Wars are rarely religious. They may wear a cloak of religion over top of their economic or paranoid flesh but that is just that, a cloak. Look at any radical and underneath you will see an unhappy person feeling disenfranchised by something whether it is the DC highway sniper, the school shooters, the Timothy McVeigh, the Ruby Ridge, The Waco thing or the Iraqi insurgent or the Balkans mess.. the list is long of the people(s) that feel apart from us all and not a part of it all. Most of this is money and power underneath or some insane fear of being controlled by others or marginalized. The Bogeyman thing.
Those who cannot identify with in a group in their own society often do mad things. If I am poor I might hate the rich. If I am without power I may seek power to end my powerless feelings. If I am without love I may hate to see those in love and if I am without oil I may covet your oil under the cloak of US National interests in some far away region and call those opposed to that Radical Islamic Terrorists to hide my theft and demonize their objections.
The truth hurts worse than a lie ever could I might add.
The question has been for me for many years… WHY OH WHY do we think we know what is best for other countries that have resources when we ignore genocide in countries that have no resources? Pol Pot ring a bell? Rwanda? The Sudan? The Jews running over Palestine? The Bulkans after most of the damage was done? We are lying hypocrites in the eyes of God. Quick to jump for oil, slow to no go for any other peoples. That is the truth.
We protect our greedy interests and that’s about it. Look at the money poured into Iraq and then look at New Orleans residents 2 years later. The working class neighborhoods feel that sting. They are of no interest.
I don’t have to demonize my own government when their actions put to print do it for any thinking person. It is as it is.
Saudi Arabia is quiet, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Qutar, Syria, UAE, Bahrain,Kuwait, are all quiet. Iraq, Iran,,, not so quiet and our nose is buried in their business unlike those quiet countries. Get a clue. It’s us.
Regards
GlenGary
susan28
Dec 26, 2007
Gary: sounds like we’ve some experience in common, brother..
Bob: you make some very keen observations and i could totally see it going down that way except that we don’t raise money so much from borrowing it as by printing it, and we enforce foreign “confidence” in the dollar at the point of our superior guns. we learned from the Swiss that high currency value hurts exports – what you want is depressed currency but creditors who are too scared to call in their markers, so when people dump their dollars in, say, China, we make them take payment in yet more worthless T-bills, because for them to either demand payment or to liquidate the excess doilars at a discount would be viewed as an “unfriendly act”, which is a euphemism for “do it and die”. as long as we maintain the ability to wipe out China, Russia, and all of europe with one fell swoop, no-one’s gonna touch us. the extending of credit to us (buying T-bills) isn’t loans, it’s protection money, just like the “loans” people make to the mob (that’s how shakedown money is listed on their books) which of course will never be called in, “or else”.
as far as other so-called “countries” taking us over, while there may be a “world war” just to bring the rabble of the various countries onboard and sweep away civil liberties in places where they still exist, don’t you think the multi-racial global financial elites have much more in common with one another than they do with their various “peoples”?
Mao said, “communism isn’t about equality, it’s a means to defeating one’s enemies”. he had much more in common with Nixon and Kissinger than his own people, and vice versa. and Deng Xiao Ping was at all those meetings, waiting in the wings. likewise, Bush and his ilk have much more in common with the Saudi elite than with the average American. likewise Walker, Dulles and that whole crowd was in bed with Farben et al during the entire war, and even had one of their banks seized (with no jail time) under the Trading With The Enemy Act. Dulles went on to become secretary of state after the war and have an airport named after him.
i agree with your assessment of China, though, it’s a way for the ruling class to enrich itself without having to go thru the motions of skimming it out of the “people’s” fund. they can say, “you can make money now and so can we”, which will last just long enough to move everything upward in an above-board way, while shoring up the waning loyalty of the masses.
so yeah, it’s like a game of Risk, agreed, but one where the players are sharing pieces and working in unison to play hide-the-assets while keeping the plebes at each other’s throats.
i agree Europe’s going Muslim and that will be useful to elites who need a predictable voting/fighting bloc, but i don’t think people like Bandar are any more pious in their respective faiths than people like Bush. it benefits them to stick together no matter what their (so-called) “countries” are doing. note Haliburton’s move to Dubai to avoid paying the tax tab for the war they started. if the plebes go Muslim the elites will simply change their hats. religion will be used as it always has, to control populations and spawn the occasional “purge” of excess plebes.
anyone here ever see the movie “Rollover”? it’s a classic illustration of how wealth always remains in the same hands despite economic “crisis”. i won’t spoil the ending, find the movie and watch it.
staylow
Dec 26, 2007
I have been reading this blog for sometime, without comment. You all seem to be very good people (Glen, Bob, Duane, and now Susan), some of the few folks in this country that know what’s going on. Most importantly, you have taken action toward your convictions and not just words. This I have respect for. I have several very good reasons for not putting my head up on the radar screen. First, I cannot say who I work for, and secondly I have been a survivalist for 20 years. My preparations for the coming collapse have been complete for a long time……..now it’s just the waiting. I did, however, feel compelled to add this comment and a few words of advice.
To Susan……study your history lessons a little closer. Fascists have the same weakness as any other form of government. Greed!! The slow progressions you talk about have been occurring for decades, but they will make the same mistake as any dictator. “Why have half, when you can take all” They will wait for an event of some magnitude and then seize whatever they can. It has been repeated throughout history and it will happen again. Greed for greed’s sake is the addiction of our times. It affects rich and poor alike in this country (as it did in Rome), but this has an advantage, it leads to mistakes. You can’t win a 3 front war, but greed will make you try…..just ask Hitler.
Or government is not happy with taking “most” of your freedoms away, they want ALL. You have seen the acceleration of their programs (Patriot Act, Security Act, ex.), but now it’s time for something more. We have now lost the protections of the Posse Comitatus laws, I have no doubt the final act is on the near horizon.
To Glen, Bob and Duane, you have all done something to prepare yourselves, and to that end, I commend you. But if I may offer you a few words? You have stored precious metals (the most important of which is Lead), and you have described the quanties you retain. I suggest you multiply your holdings by a factor of 10. The small arms you recommend are not adequate. A .308 or 7.62×39 assault rifle is minimum. Weapons designed for combat, are just that; and that my friends is just what you are about to face. History describes in vivid detail what every other collapse looks like. They are violent, bloody and bring to bear the total arsenal of the times. Be prepared for the worst of humanity, and hope to see the best of it.
The most important thing I would suggest is to prepare the mind and intern, your will, for whatever might come. The one who stands victorious is the one who had the will to do what others would not.
I wish the best for all of you.
susan28
Dec 26, 2007
thanks for the warm-fuzzy Bobdole.. hey didn’t you speak to my political science class at PBJC in Lake Worth back in the 80′s?
(no shite, my hard-right intro-to-ps prof really brought in Dole to speak to us, pretty cool actually).
i got some pristine Chinese 7.62×39 (yep the ones yer thinking of) sealed up for a rainy day tho no AK to shoot it with, but the opportunity arose and no telling what the “community standard” will be in the future so i grabbed it. if nothing else it’ll be a nice compund-warming gift for some kindly tribe willing to take me in
as a condo dweller i figure my five-seven can do double-duty in a pinch if we have to head for the hills – compact, high-cap, decent range, lightweight combat round. G20 for taking game, also nice and totable, ammo’s not ubiquitous for either one but i got plenty on tap and the Glock’ll eat .40 if need be, and an 870 for those surprise wake-up calls.. not exactly Socom, but covers the bases and goes from safe to trunk without any help carrying it – first thing i tell chix who wanna dj (that’s what i do) is “make sure you can carry yer own gear cuz entourages are notoriously unreliable!” hehe.. be the gear for raves or civil unrest – or a lil of each maybe? no reason we can’t make the best of it eh? – portability is a virtue
susan28
Dec 26, 2007
sorry, meant “staylow” when i said “Bobdole” (don’t even ask me where my mind was, thought i saw that handle in the comment name..
Duane
Dec 27, 2007
Hi Guys
HOpe all had a Merry Christmas. My spouse and I just got back from a few nights stay at a casino. Didn’t win chit but had a great time. I had to escape the reality of our world for awhile. Best think we did in years. I was truely amazed at the people at the casino Christmas Evea and Christams Day. I need to get out more I guess but I always thought people were out doing last minute shopping or sitting at home and being good. It was elbow-to-elbow in the casino.
Nice to be back but had a great time. Got to play in a Hold’em tourney and actually placed.
Back home and time to proceed with my agenda of prep for the future.
Duane
Bob
Dec 27, 2007
Glen. The picture you paint of Moslems in Europe isn’t the one that I am familiar with. Maybe I need more information. I have the impression that they are quite immune to assimilation and prefer to keep themselves apart in their own separate communities where their language, culture and beliefs remain unchanged from the mother country. At the same time, they feel justified in taking advantage of any social program they can get their hands on because they see the European governments as infidels who are required to serve them. Maybe I need to go there and see for myself. You can’t trust journalists, documentaries and first hand reports. I have seen a few things along those lines with my own eyes in this country, though.
Susan28. “as long as we maintain the ability to wipe out China, Russia, and all of Europe with one fell swoop, no one’s gonna touch us.” Glen has just pointed out that we can’t even beat a bunch of farmers with AKs in Iraq. Prepare to be touched. It doesn’t matter how much weapons technology you have at your disposal if you are worried that you might hurt somebody with it. Just like your BB gun story. You knew who they were, what they wanted and how they were going to get it. You should have been peppering them with lead as soon as they came in range and chased them all the way home when they cut and ran. Maybe took a few shots at their dog and windows when you got to their house. It might have made them want their own BB gun but they sure wouldn’t have tried to take yours again. Of course, your Mom would have tried to take it, so that’s why you would have hidden it on your way home and told her that those bullies took it from you and that they are lying about you shooting at them. You have to survive darlin’, it’s a dirty world. Staylow sums it up in his last line before his best wishes.
We’re deathly afraid of fossil fuel emmissions and the crap that leaks out of old refrigerators. Do you think we’re going to start firing nukes at people? Al Gore would give us one hell of a scolding if we did.
Like I said, we all have a hard time believing that we could lose our standing in the world, but it is going to happen.
Staylow. Hey, how’s it going man? M1 Garande and a 1911 Colt good enough? Good enough to get something better if turns out that I need something better. That’s the way I look at it. I’ve got all softpoint hunting ammo except for the .45 auto. Makes me wince just thinking about it. Especially if you take a shot at the extremities every now and then for effect. A good shotgun comes in handy too. Take it easy on Susan28. She’s a city girl with some funny ideas but she’s alright.
Bob
Dec 27, 2007
I haven’t lost any of my freedoms. It just seems to be harder to get away with stuff lately.
susan28
Dec 27, 2007
Duane: sounds like fun. casinos are actually a great place to spend Christmas. my gf and i used to spend every Christmas was my folks at Bob Stupak’s place (the space-themed one, forget the name), i miss that tradition.
Bob: the feeling of not being able to get away with things is psychologically damaging even if you aren’t at odds with any laws.
i forget the man’s name, but he was “the most famous prisoner at Devil’s Island”, i saw a documentary on it. he was a political prisoner of course, in for speaking truth to power. because he was the state’s most hated prisoner, they set about to devise the most torturous possible punishment for him. he was kept in an isolation cell chained to the floor at all times. but that was common. the thing they did different with him was that they had a guard simply *stare at him* 24/7. no talk, just staring. he was chained up behind locked door. he wasn’t going anywhere. but it wasn’t a security measure. it was meant to drive him mad by removing all privacy. this is what is now done to all of us – innocent and “guilty” alike – in the name of “national security”.
don’t think this is part of the economic collapse? of course it is, it *all* is, because society couldn’t become this dysfunctional if it wasn’t NUTS, and it’s the government that’s driving us there with its hyper-intrusiveness, not just financially but psychologically.
susan28
Dec 27, 2007
“Just like your BB gun story. You knew who they were, what they wanted and how they were going to get it. You should have been peppering them with lead as soon as they came in range and chased them all the way home when they cut and ran.”
yeah, that’s what would happen *now*. got all the turn-the-other-cheek stuff outta the way in my Catholic school years. i was one of the few who actually took it serioiusly, and saw where it got me. rules only work if everyone plays by ‘em, but they don’t, especially those who make ‘em..
susan28
Dec 27, 2007
Bob: i think our country as a whole will go down, and maybe even be attacked by other forces, but no matter what happens, do you think families like the Bushes (who are really minor league themselves), Rockefellers, Carnegies etc will *ever* be poor? you think what happens to the American people will even make a dent in their bottom line? Haliburton – that great “American” corporation – has already pulled up stakes, and is now pulling our strings outside the reach of our laws. so i’m saying that no matter how much hell breaks loose here the ruling class will remain in place, keeping their wealth in whatever’s the currency du jour and living wherever’s safest. whatever “culture” is on top, it’ll be the same folks running things, there will just be different “hot buttons” being pushed to corral the sheep. that’s why i recommended the movie “Rollover”, because it’s all about how the “movers and shakers” are above all economic crises and national boundaries. Haliburton’s a Dubai corporation owned by American nationals. what currency you think their holdings are in? i doubt it’s dollars..
GlenGary
Dec 27, 2007
Hi,
When we look at our political military regional goals I find some folks have had trouble accepting what I say so I’m going to simplify war for some folks.
Let’s say as an uppity neighbor I walk into your home. You feel like “What the Hell?” and you say “Get out of my house” and I ignore you. You keep repeating and then yelling “GET OUT OF MY HOUSE!” “GET THE HELL OUT!” and you shove me at which point your son says… I invited him. But the rest of your family wants me out…and now.
I take out a Glock and put it to your head and tell you that I want your daughter and wife and your wallet and car keys. You refuse at first so I pump a slug into your wife killing her. You now hand it all over seeing the Glock as superior force. You are in grief and in sorrow and raging inside, but you comply to try to fight another day.
I tie you up and the others. Do your daughter. Take your money. Drive away in your car vowing to be back when I want something else. You bury your wife. Secure your home and arm yourself and come looking for me.
In Poland the Nazis broke in and in France they broke in and in Russia they broke in and in each case the people got guns and pecked at their troops wanting them out of their house just like when we went into the Mid East the voices for five decades have been GET OUT OF MY HOUSE! Before that they told the Brits and Germans GET OUT OF MY HOUSE like the Vietnamese told the French and then us GET OUT OF MY HOUSE.
If we had foreign troops in the United States we would be screaming GET OUT OF MY HOUSE! They would say that we were of strategic interest to them or they were invited…. would that stop the chorus of GET OUT OF MY HOUSE?
Not on your life. America would become Baghdad.
I don’t care who you are. The Japanese raping Nanking, The Brits Colonizing India and Africa, The French colonizing Vietnam, The Nazis taking Europe and Russia… When you break into someone’s home expect to hear GET OUT OF MY HOUSE and expect bullets too. Iraq included.
Foreign armies enter-dead bodies feet first exit. Simple thing to understand. Get Out Of My House is simple to understand as well. The fact that we aren’t listening plays no role except to increase the cost in bodies, wreckage and hatred.
Over simplified… maybe not.
GlenGary
staylow
Dec 27, 2007
FMJ Bob, your M1 Grande is a fine battle rifle, but use your soft point ammo for dear hunting, buy all the you can. (Soft point is designed for dear standing broadside to you at 300 yards. People, especially when your shooting at them, tend to seek cover behind wood, stone or metal. The penetration of FMJ is what you’re looking for.) As with any weapon, the ability to use it efficiently is the most important thing. I would suggest buying a copy of Shotgun News, look for an advertisement from “Fred”…….it’s a full page add, in every issue, and he deals with your specific firearm. He has an AQT training course that I think you would enjoy.
If you believe you’re not loosing your freedoms, try to follow my previous advice to purchase FMJ (Mil surplus). In Dec. of 2006, the U.N. passed a law banning the import/export of all Mill surplus ammo world wide (unless you’re a Gov. run military). Gone are the days of cheep ammo…………and that is freedom.
It was never my intention “to be hard on Susan” in any way. A woman can demonstrate the same willpower as anyone else. I can teach a 12 year old girl how to fire a M82A1M, and hit a target at 1000yards. With enough will, she can carry it up the hill too. As a matter of fact, many years ago I started with no more than she has (a SKS and 1000rds). It was my original plan to go find someone with a compound and see if I could join. Thankfully, the tables have turned for me. I will have the option of offering “shelter” to those who have prepared. My advice to her, is buy a rifle to go with that ammo. An SKS at a local pawn shop for around $250, or a gun show (you might find one new for $175). Your other “toys” are usable, but if you ever get the chance, pop a couple of your 5.7’s into a windshield and see what happens. Consider “sheltering in place” instead of running for the hills…….read up on survival techniques to find out why. “Portability is a virtue”, but consider a years supply of food, that’s a much better warming gift.
Bob
Dec 27, 2007
Wow, this is turning in to a real conversation!
Susan. I never heard of that staring torture but it sounds like a good one. That would explain some of the rampant insanity today. Good to hear that your skin is now thicker and your heart is tougher. Nothing deserves more respect than a mean woman except maybe a rabid cougar with a sore tooth and a week old fleshwound. And history does show that the rich and powerful take a hit once in a while. I’m thinking of Louis XVI and his lovely wife and of course the Czar of Russia and his family. There is always a way to get the bastards. Oh yeah, Duane does sound like a good guy.
Glen. That’s a pretty good summary of war. Doesn’t seem to change though. Countries keep doing it and they always will. They always have their reasons at the time but it is always basically the same thing. If you aren’t breaking in to someone else’s house then someone is breaking in to yours. Unless you are Switzerland, but we can’t all be Switzerland.
Staylow. Never thought of the penetration factor. A 180gr softnose 30-06 will easily go through 6-8 inches of wood, I’ve seen that, but your point is well taken. I always thought the military round was used in an effort to be more “humane” and to inflict casualties rather than deaths. If I have them pinned down, I’ll bring out the .338WM if I have it along. Too late to start buying large amounts of ammo now(don’t want to draw attention) but I’ll keep on the lookout for some full metal jacket. Maybe a few boxes here and there. Better than nothing. I’ve got lots of stripper clips.
I don’t know why but I am uneasy with making a permanent base. Too much high tech stuff out there and they can take you out without firing a round. Plus, you’re tied to a place and have to keep it guarded at all times. I’d rather cache a little bit in a lot of different places and stay on the move.
This is crazy stuff. The end must be nigh.
Bob
Dec 27, 2007
Louis L’Amour quote, “you never need a gun until you need one badly”.
rodney
Dec 27, 2007
Hi Aussie working class guy here.I have a hatred towards the extereme capitalism we live in!.It scares me how trapped nd brain washed most here are.The government tells us to change our light globes to low energy ones.Then everyday I see people consuming way more than we need but no one will say stop this to protect our environment and resources as it creates jobs strong economy ect.I heard a quote a while ago from a wise Russian.I t went like this the west is have a race with progress and self destruction sadly the last latter is winning hands down.I’am confused with all this brainwashing terroists are evil.Yes of course they are extremist scum.I don’t have the stats but are there more people shot up in shopping malls schools ect ect by lunatics.Did’nt the English french ect just spend the last few hundred years being terroists killing off indigenous races?.Not sure about the states but what I see here is disater evolving.The class divison we have has all the educated respectable women having very few children.Whilst the lower classes ar having many of them I’am unsure how we can support this in coming years maybe mas migration.Thanks Rod
Bob
Dec 28, 2007
Glen. I just thought of something else. The Middle East telling us to get out of their house has been similar to a scene from the Simpsons. Homer offends Apu in the Quickie Mart.
Apu says “Oh! Mr. Simpson, you have offended me deeply. I will kindly ask you to leave now……..and come again.”
They always needed us to drill their oil wells, develope their oil industry and buy their oil so they could get rich.
They even like to send their kids to our universities. They just don’t want us in their living room all the time, rearranging the furniture because they want to pretend that they succeeded all on their own. If you let your mother-in-law buy your house and contents for you, she’s going to be hanging around alot. Fact of life.
World politics is just soooooooo complicated.
GlenGary
Dec 28, 2007
Hi Bob,
If I visit my sister’s house and she doesn’t permit smoking, I, out of respect take it outside or refrain. If she disapproves of cussing, I watch my mouth and if I know she is a Liberal Democrat I keep my Independent Green Party rhetoric to myself. In other words, I know where I am at-at all times and honor and respect the foreign home rules.
When I worked, I respected those rules as well and when I am out among others I notice what goes and what does not and I might note that even a dog has enough sense not to sh_t right up next to his food bowl or dog house.
The culture that does not approve of our ways and has said so, drinking, grabbing at women, open displays of affection, swearing, porn magazines and now Internet porn and gambling … our folks do these things in their house and our female soldiers go about head uncovered and whether you agree with the culture or house rules, you are obliged to respect it all and not be problematic to them.
Islam is not Christianity. Islam is community, work, on the street and in the home and there is nowhere that Islam is not a part of life as they live it 24X7 and not put it aside for Sunday like we do Christianity… THAT is their view whether we agree with that or not, that is what they say.
Government is Islam and Islam is government and our views on Democracy do not mix with an Islamic Republic and our goals do not align with their accepted goals in many cases and our influence is like me smoking and cussing in my sister’s home. The welcome might wear out quickly.
You need not agree with any house rules, but a smart person learns those rules and respects those rules as he or she would want the same in their house.
There is a time and place for all things and drilling wells and making folks rich as we enrich ourselves should not include going further and taking liberty with home rule or disrespecting culture which we are notorious for doing. We want to show everyone the way when our house is not clean and our Republic is literally falling apart at the seams.
A smart man who trained me for a dangerous job back years ago told me, “Always know where you are at-at all times, what is in front of you, to the edges, what you hear, feel and smell and what your gutt is saying and trust that completely and you will live intact to see the morning. Do what you should to master what is going on around you and forget the white noise. Nature gives clues and even insects are great guardians. Learn that quickly.”
It was great advice I still use. I trust myself and my instincts completely. I also notice where I end and you begin and do not violate borders unless I must to protect me and mine AFTER you have violated my borders-not before.
Putting your shoe on my foot is helpful and diplomatic and a great survival tool. To not do so risks survival as we now clearly see.
I told my nephew who liked to fight in bars, it doesn’t matter how mad you are, you must gage how mad the other guy is by body language and ‘feel’ for if you hit someone who is over the edge he may kill you without thinking.
Know where you are at during all times. Respect the parameters. Obey house rules and do not mock them either. Know that your ways may not be my ways and do not push yourself into my space-even for what you think is my own good. Slip my shoe on your foot and really think about it.
Finally, in business if I offend someone I know at that point we can never do honest business and I go in search of clean waters having learned I hope.
Regards GlenGary
GlenGary
Dec 28, 2007
Hi,
Of guns..I bought mine which the last was highly recommended by a few state police and municipal agencies as having a solid “quit factor” after being hit once. I guess the slam was awe inspiring.
As for use for protection I see no problem range wise and I certainly might have a collection of other arms and some ammo should I be forced to use my gun. Dead folks don’t need their guns. I will take them.
As for you snipers out there. The most shots at one time safe to fire is two. Any more than two-fired quickly and your position is highly compromised and you are dead. So an SKS or AK-47 or a 308 or 30-06, doesn’t matter. Sniping is one or two shots so put the huge clips away. Forget Rambo movies.
The best way is one shot and when safe change your position to a place predetermined for the next go around. Surprise and stealth is all you have so try not to giggle after a clean hit or make noise or catch the sun or create shadows as you move as in crawl if possible. Muted clothes, belt buckles etc-matt finish and take water and survival bars should you become pinned which is likely for a novice. Nothing in the pockets that makes noise either. Tape things you must carry so they cannot make sounds.
Shoot, duck, deep breaths to avoid a panic response and gives you time to think rationally. Scary stuff really. Might want to practice breathing through the nose hard and deep so it becomes second nature or first nature now. It’s healthier any way.
Regards GlenGary
Bob
Dec 28, 2007
Once again, I agree with you Glen. I just said that if you ask someone you don’t like to build your house for you for free and make your living off of him at the same time plus depend on him to protect your position as head of the house, he might be inclined to smoke and cuss and grab your women if he damn well feels like it. Completely different scenario than visiting your sister’s house. Just messy and dirty with no clear picture of who is to blame for all the hard feelings.
Your shooting advice is right on, but blasting off a clip in a semi-accurate manner has it’s uses when covering someone else or running for cover yourself when you are forced to change positions. Tends to make the other guys a little less accurate.
Bob
Dec 28, 2007
This is fun. Most mental exercise I’ve had in a long time.
GlenGary
Dec 29, 2007
Hi Bob,
Let’s try this one on for size. Bird flu coming to a country near you which if it comes here they will kill chickens and turkeys on top of the beef they may have to destroy over Mad Cow now in Alberta and some folks think, in the deer populations of a Mid Western State. Food shortages in meat because pork would go nuts in price, fish unless from dirty countries is not in great supply, eggs would be high, milk and butter through the roof. Real strain on us.
Next, Russia is mad at Bush for wanting to deploy missiles near Russia. Putin is now somewhat cozy with Iran. Russia also now has strategic bombers flying our borders 24X7. Putin is not a guy to be messed with. The Neocons still want to bomb Iran and soon. Should we do that we might pull the trigger on war with Russia as well as finishing off our middle-class financially with $8 gas or more.
Then there is the economy anyway. Next there is Pakistan and what happens there while Turkey is bombing Iraq because of Kurd problems while Afghanistan needs more troops as we only really hold Kabul. Nice messes Huh?
Did I leave anything out like China who now is floating their money higher making it more attractive than ours and soon allowing futures trading of gold with a 7% deposit on all contracts to keep gold in a tight trading range and I read that as a higher trading range.
For a little history. In 2000 Baghdad announced they would no longer take US Dollars for their oil wanting Euros. Well, we put a stop to that when we attacked. Back to US Dollars they went!
Iran recently switched to Euros for oil. Time to attack? Looks like it. Looks funny doesn’t it? We don’t like Hugo either and he is demanding Euros. Maybe we should attack or destabilize his country. I think we are trying really. Talk was of killing him. Taking Euros can get a country bombed or a leader killed or both as in Iraq’s case.
Everything comes down to economics. The WMDs Iraq had were the Euro option that threatened the Dollar as the world’s reserve currency for if other countries were to follow suit, the dollar would have been seen as worthless as it really is. Play ball with us or die is the message. I think China will call us out on that soon enough.
You can Google the Saddam Euro for oil thing. You should get nearly 64,600 returns on that search and then hit Iranian Oil Bourse.
By the way, Enron and UNOCAL and Halliburton wanted a pipeline through Afghanistan in the late 1990′s-Taliban had talks with a Texas Governor that became our President. The Taliban visited Texas. Enron, UNOCAL and Halliburton heavy campaign contributors, Rumsfeld and Cheney Haliburton oil boys. Rice an oil girl. But that doesn’t stink at all does it?
GlenGary,
Impeached and hung every one of them!
Bob
Dec 30, 2007
Susan28. I thought about it. I….do feel….psychologically….damaged.
GlenGary
Dec 30, 2007
So… When did you first start having these feelings Bob? Can you elaborate on your feelings a bit for me? How does it make you really feel? For instance do you feel unloved or unvalued or unimportant or impotent or powerless or little or insgnificant?
Does it make you swing low or angry or want to pound your fists into something or some one? Have you tried to harm yourself? Do you ever cry for unknown reasons? Do you often feel panic? Tightness in the chest? Crazy crawling feelings in the stomach? Cold sweats? Trouble sleeping? General anxiety? Unable to satisfy the wife? She told me you couldn’t last nigh…a a a nebbermind.
You look angry? Why, you are shaking and your teeth are clenched. Calm down, we’re here to help you old boy. Just relax.
(Oh, Nurse Cratchet; prepare a dull sedative needle and a scalding hot enema bag-the 10 gallon model and syringe the melon sized tip. We’ll show this guy what problems really are.)
Hey… What the? What are you… I thought someone searched this guy!
Bobby’s got a gun, Bobby’s got a gun, Whole worlds come undone everybody in the Forum Run! Woe woe Bob, what’s that in your hand? Hey hey hey hey let’s think about this pal… Aim that sucker to the floor a sec huh? Wha wha wha whatcha pulling out Oh my Lord! Now now now wa wa wa wa wait! PLEEEEEEEEEZE!
GEEEZUS! A GREANADE! Where the hell did you get a grenade? No no no no not the pin! The handle the spoon the what-cha-macallit… yea yea that thing OH LORD HE LET IT GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Whew! Sssssssssssssssssshit! I’m out’a here!
GlenGary
Dec 30, 2007
New Name For The Forun,,,,
THE RED DAWN FORUM
Today’s Discussion;
Hand Bombs 101, How to make nasty things to throw from common household items.
Someone please start. Don’t be shy. The NSA and ATF are on board and waiting to see what we type.
susan28
Dec 30, 2007
psych damage = easier to manage.. see how that works?
google John Taylor Gatto (my links always get eaten by this forum, xhtml or otherwise) and read his essays on the history and (stated by its own proponents) purpose of compulsory public education for a sullen look (by a former Teacher of the Year) at just how deep the rabbit hole goes.
it, ultimately, is the psychological lynchpin of the whole welfare/warfare economy, and was conceived (actually copied from communist China and Napoleon-era Prussia) as that very Thing, as it were. seen in this light, the seeming chaos and illogic of world events begin to make sense. it’s more than a recommendation, it’s required reading. i’m serious. it’s that important. do it now.
Anonymous
Dec 30, 2007
Anybody see the new Bin Laden tape? Osama looks like Black Beard the pirate black as coal and thick as all hell. Yea, right even though at his age and with his health problems growing anything more than gray and dried out would be a blessing.
In the Muslim world a gray beard is the badge of wisdom, honor and gains much respect and would never be colored. It is a Muslim cultural thing yet we are now lead to believe that Bin Laden has used “Just For Men” so he can get Miss Hottie!
Vanity is a non-Muslim thing when it comes to hair, beards and wrinkles.
This was a tape probably produced in Florida. “Hey Jeb! Grab the fake beard and the robe and hit the set! It’s time for the Osama Show! Yeah! In this scene Osama cops to killing the raven Pakistan patriotic heroine beauty Bhutto and again throws in some nonspecific threats toward his nemesis Bush and the American Sheeple. Lights-Camera-Action— Jeb does Osama take one!”
Homeland Security a Division of Murdock Media brought to you by Phizer, The Swift Boat Vets and the Rockefeller Foundation. Working hand in hand toward the New World Order.
If you magnify frame 366 in the right background 100 power near Osama’s elbow you can clearly spot the Burger King drink cup.
Bob
Dec 31, 2007
Susan28. I did read some of his work when you wrote of it earlier. Even printed off an essay to show to a friend. I still have a lot more to read, judging by what comes up on the search but I think I get the gist of it. The truth of it is pretty obvious.
What puzzles me is how some of these evil conspiracies have spanned generations and endured major social changes but have still managed to remain completely focused on long term goals and in many cases, have achieved overwhelming success.
In human history, good ideas, good governments and good philosophies are usually so perverted and corrupted after a few generations that they become unrecognizeable, but their evil counterparts stay true and focused and seem to grow stronger with time.
Get out your old Stones records again and listen to Sympathy For the Devil. That scenario is starting to make more and more sense to me. Even the fact that it has been pushed to the bottom of our list of possible explanations for the times, appears to be a manipulation of our minds. I know people who have read books that would stack up a mile high but they refuse to read a bible, even though it has been a bestseller since books began. They look at you funny if you even suggest it. There are some good stories in there.
People today go to churches and join all kinds of group religions and cults where they are told what to do and think, but….the aversion to PERSONAL religion and deep spiritual thought is worse than the feelings people had towards communism in the forties. We do not speak of these things freely. How and why has this happened? It would be more socially acceptable for me to talk to you about my drug crazed, homosexual relationships with farm animals(purely hypothetical) than to talk to you about my ideas on spirituality. Especially if I had the desire to fast myself to the point of death in an attempt to experience spiritual enlightenment or Nirvana. These latter thoughts might get me locked up in the loonie bin but no one would have a problem with me going back to the farm after my first story.
I still believe that all of our problems are human caused because of the choices we make, but I am beginning to firmly believe that there is a “dark” force manipulating and presenting these choices to selected people in an effort to bring about a desired result. We are headed towards self destruction. I have said before that I am a naturalist. Self destruction is not natural. There is something else going on here.
Now I will be shunned.
Bob
Dec 31, 2007
Don’t give me the lemming example of self destruction, because that is actually a last ditch method of preserving the species.
susan28
Dec 31, 2007
i take much inspiration from Jesus though i’m no longer of the faith proper, but if you’re a Bible man i’ve got *just* the site for you, by a man i’ve come to both admire and respect for his insight and hard work, and holds forth at length on economics and geopolitics but in his case he ties it all in with the Bible. infact what i was saying about the national debt was lifted directly from one of his recent articles. ex Vietnam intel guy, so he’s no babe in the woods. it’s antipas ministries dotcom, but let me just try another xhtml link here:
susan28
Dec 31, 2007
one more time:
Bob
Dec 31, 2007
There is no “faith proper”. Just what He said and how you take it. The rest of it is just crap.
I take full responsibility for that statement.
Most religions started with an individual and some deep spiritual thought, but then got taken over by the masses and turned into something recognizeable to them. People want to be told what to think. They want golden calves. They need visual stimulation to inspire awe. Big churches and such and guys wearing funny hats in bullet proof cars. That is not spirituality. Jesus whipped people like that with a stick, Buddha just shook his head and Mohammed suggested that those people should be killed where you find them.
I never actually read that about Mohammed, I received that second hand.
I will check out your link.
Bob
Dec 31, 2007
Buddha showed us how to live, Jesus showed us why we live and Mohammed did some livin’. That’s the way I’ve come to see it.
GlenGary
Dec 31, 2007
Susan 28
I know how the world thinks and why really. Programmed indoctrinated and when the truth is told it is viewed with suspicion or ignored until the sheeple can deal with it in mass feeling safety in numbers to finally see the truth.
I wrote an article published on a website on Peer Pressure basically saying that kids learn it from parents and they do and that thinking differently in our society will get you designated as the weirdo. “Land of the Free as long as you agree with me!” Sums it up.
My life was not easy from the very beginning and I fought my way up and yet some Liberal a-hole told me several years ago I should donate my savings to people like him who sit and cry instead of bust a move. I told him, when the day comes that I see you working 20 to 36 hours at a throw uninterupted, sleeping 8-12 hours in five days, freezing your butt off outside in windchills of -15 for 12-16 hours, coming home with heat stroke regularily in the summer…. I might think you have heart and listen to you. But right now all I hear are excuses and not reasons and nature favors the strong so go starve until you get that.
Too many of those out there. They need to go fight in a war and then start a career. What folks are taught in school has little to do with having heart or survival. If you are willing, the world teaches nature.
What I’ve done, what I’ve had to do is who I am and I’m not the least bit sorry any of it happened because the toughest steel is forged by fire.
GlenGary
GlenGary
Dec 31, 2007
Bob,
There is a devil there is no doubt, but is he trying to get in or trying to get out.
Some people let their devil out or put him out where he cannot do them the harm he intends. Others embrace the devil through fears of all kinds for the hallmark of absolute evil is fearfulness.
A person is never more alive than at the point when death is faced down and at that point having done so successfully death holds no power over you in the light it had before. One lives better and is not as fearful.
I had a 25 ton steel scrap box-because of worn crane cables that snapped hit the floor not three feet from where I was standing on Sunday, May 12, 2002, I think it was. Three days before I retired. Took huge chunks out of the cement floor and scrap went every where.
My reaction was “So what else is new?” and the folks around me couldn’t believe it really was of no consequence to me. I told one of them, “Depends on what you are used to. When my time arrives it won’t matter whether I run, duck for cover, sh_t my pants, start shaking or bust out laughing. Your time comes it comes. It was not my time..yet.”
I believe in God strongly and to have unlimited fears shows no belief in my creator and the plan of my creator. I may not like some things that happen, but it is not my call and how things turn out for me is how they are supposed to turn out for me. Life is a series of lessons unending and chances to learn if one is open to it.
I believe that God is a gentleman and he nudges folks in the right direction. If you listen and do then fine and the lesson continues. If you do not listen then life will make you wish you had listened.
All fear is the dark side and the devil will hit you in your weakest point ALWAYS because he favors the willing… the easy mark.
My thing I ponder is this, if folks who claim to be Christian know that heaven awaits upon death, then why are they so afraid of dying that they are willing to do evil to avoid death? Doesn’t wash.
GlenGary
GlenGary
Dec 31, 2007
Bob
I do not believe in organized religion because groups pervert intent with their own little agendas. The Bible speaks to me personally and tells me what I need to know today and this is a personal message that I might be ready to hear or willing to hear. Something for me to contemplate and not others.
That said; A minister cannot tell me what that personal message is or how I should react to it. He cannot dictate what goes on in my life or home because he has no idea how we live. Religion that is cookie cutter is just that, not tailored to the individual person or soul.
It’s like having 100 hungry people and feeding them all pizza when 80 of them are craving something else or many something else’s. 80 might not eat what is offered this Sunday or next or next or next. Why should they have to wait and be lead? What if the message comes too late?
In 1988 I adopted God as my father in place of my biological father who even today I see as very evil and although I have forgiven him in that I will not seek his ruin or try to get even, I cannot bring myself to communicate with him because he remains as he was and does not change.
I chose a better example as a father and I might add that as with a real flesh and blood father I at times resist and backslide and do not listen as I should so I struggle at times.
I believe in treating others as I want to be treated. If that rule cannot apply then I believe in being left alone as I leave others alone knowing that pushing in where one is not appreciated does no good. One cannot pound things into others. They come to things on their own or they don’t.
I believe in mutual respect and I do protect me and mine where ever I find respect is not mutual. This is my right. It is my obligation.
This is why I said that we should not darken doorsteps when it is learned that it is not appreciated no matter what. Life is not tit for tat. Life is in discovering how one can find their place in humanity without destroying humanity to do so.
I have found in my life to be quite honest, when I have problems the guy in my morning mirror most probably played a big part in those problems. It might have been greed or sloth or taking liberties or refusing to listen or pushing without backing off. I have just to examine it a bit.
And finally, I believe that true Christians cannot be of this world but must live in it as best they can. The Bible states I can protect myself and my family from attack and urges me to lead as I am lead and only as I am lead by my Father. This does not entail attacking others but rather if evil comes to my doorstep deal with it then.
It also tells me what is good for the goose is good for the gander and in that I do not do anything in my home or marriage that I would not enjoy finding it was done to me. I take it that I am not responsible for anyone’s morals or motives except mine which is load enough.
With what I do and what I say the buck stops with me which is inescapable in God’s eyes so denial is of no use. God knows motives.
GlenGary
Duane
Jan 03, 2008
Looks like gold and silver are on their way up! Has someone dedected a leak in the financial dam?
GlenGary
Jan 03, 2008
Hi Duane,
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Hunpty Dumpty is about to take his fall. And all the Kings Horses and all the King’s men aint gonna put this back together again! Prepare for the onslaught! 2008, The Year Of The Toasted.
Oil at near $100 (do I hear $125?) and the fate of the dollar itself has international investors running for cover. Next add in that in the 1970′s to late 1980′s recession consumers were 29% of our economy and today they are 70% of our economy. With a weakening dollar, high food and energy prices, this subprime mess and continuation of inflationary war costs, investors smell blood. The safe havens from this mess are oil and precious metals.
The financial TV shows and financial rags have been indeed 100% wrong and so was the Fed. I guess they never heard of Kondratieff Theory of which we are firmly in the fourth and final wave that unloads as financial correction called Kondrateiff Winter-the painful time when all market excess’s are addressed in full and then some. We are overdo.
Knowing you are putting a pantry together, Saturday I picked up a case of dehydrated eggs, 6 cans-170 eggs a can, 1,020 eggs-85 dozen total for $74.95 and freeze dried strawberries 5lbs reconstituted $15 at HoneyvilleGrain.com and shipping is under $5 no matter what you order. I ordered 105 lbs of various goodies. For I think $4.47 shipping why not?
The stuff is shelf stable from 15-30 years not that you might need to wait that long to use it. The eggs taste like eggs as I have an opened can we are using right now I opened in October when eggs around here went ballistic. As well I opened some powdered milk bought three years ago I packaged myself at about $1.40 a gallon and it tastes as good as regular milk and is more handy and nonfat. Those two items have doubled or near doubled in price and I had packed a ton away when ethanol was being discussed since corn feeds chickens and cows. I like eating half price if possible.
If you have any grain silos in your area you might be able to get corn meal around 20 cents a pound 50 lbs, oats about 40-50 cents, grain mixes and whole wheat flours at 25-30 cents a pound all in 50lb bags. You can bust it up and put it in plastic food grade buckets with oxygen absorbers making it shelf stable for years.
I put like 10 lbs corn meal, 20 lbs whole wheat flour, 5 lbs oats, 4 pounds pasta, 3-noodles, 3-raw sugar, 3 brown sugar, 3 pancake mix, 5 whole 9 grain mix in bags all in one bucket and make multiple buckets. Local grains are tons cheaper than ordered but make sure grains are dehydrated or do that yourself in your oven on a cookie sheet. 150 degrees a few hours mixing it around at about 30 minutes. Takes all day but doesn’t cost an arm and a leg either. You need to get all moisture out.
Navy beans can go in quart ball jars with oxy absorbers as can dehydrated fruit bought locally and spices, pudding, cocoa, cinamon, mixes like gravy. Things that might stale. It’s not rocket science.
With food storage, store what you like to eat and the more varied the better. I hear of folks buying 50 lbs of flour and 50 lbs of grain mix and 50 lbs of rice, 50 lbs beans and forgetting meats, sides, eggs, mixes, bullion, fruits, veggies, deserts, yeast, spices, spuds, milk, coffee, coffee filters, toilet paper. It’s a huge mistake and it can kill you literally not having complete nutrition and foods of interest. You get food fatigue eating the same things over and over and the body won’t get near what it needs.
GlenGary
PS Don’t forget the ammo!
GlenGary
Jan 03, 2008
$862 intraday gold…where does it go from here? $900? $1000? Gott’a love this rising faster than inflation and the poor man’s gold over $15.
Both over 300% in five years and rising… this is great.
Anonymous
Jan 03, 2008
Hi GG
What was the site address for the bulk foods you purchased. I am still in the fabrication mode of the pantry but getting closer. Time and money dictates the progress. I was going to liquidate some of my silver to gold but on second thought I think I will keep my silver. The closer we get to this economic nightmare the more certain I am that silver will be the prime bartering tool for purchasing those needed items.
I need to keep pounding my outstanding bills and make a trip to Sams Club. Sounds like you expect, “the other shoe to drop,” this year. I know things are heating up and moving towards the, “awareness state”. Obviously, more people are realising the value of gold and silver.
GlenGary
Jan 03, 2008
Hi Duane,
My motto is “Better to be prepared too early than one minute too late.”
The site I used Saturday was I often use as well and look at both sites for deals and mark-downs in the things I’m light on. I cannot to date find any cheaper places online. I keep looking but usually other sites with better food prices scalp on shipping big time. Both sites sell oxy absorbers too. Honeyville charges less tho.
For buckets I use US Plastics in Ohio.
Americans are broke and not doing much in the way of protection in food or metals or even ammo. The rate of those in preparing I’ve read is around 2%-3%. Typical really. Most live on the edge and will be crippled if not already.
The formula I go on for storage I was given was for every pound you weigh you multiply that times ten and you’d consume that much in a year. Not that I agree with that unless I count drinks like coffee, tea, water, milk. A gallon of liquid at 8 lbs then yea. Flat out solid food? No way. I’d be waaaay obese.
As for outstanding bills…they are in US Currency and if unsecured OH WELL. If the things you buy like food and metals appreciate far faster than the costs on the bills I’d buy appreciating assets and do bills later in worthless dollars.
For example; If you owed $15,000 at even 18% yearly, and silver is going up 30% 40% or more it pays to minimum pay the debt and make money on the rise in silver. If food is going up 40% then the debt is best ignored. You want rising assets.
We have a neighbor in 2004 who paid off a $300,000 6% mortgage and I nearly fainted at the stupidity of that. At the rise in silver he would have made nearly a million dollars so far plus still kept a tax write-off. The rise in 18 months would have near doubled his money! He put his payment savings in stocks, three new cars and is down he says 38% plus the obvious depreciation on nearly $100,000 in vehicles. What an idiot! Educated idiot. Turned $300,000 into about $126,000 in three years! Then lost the tax write-off too.
Debt has no meaning when assets rise many times the debt. Leverage is key.
If at any time I start to strangle then I might unload some metals or just quit grocery shopping and address that. It pays to hold debt when the spread between interest paid and money made is favorable. Which pays more?
GlenGary,
Duane
Jan 04, 2008
got the plastics url
but what is the url for the foods?
GlenGary
Jan 04, 2008
Duane,
When you got to the site you could “click on products” or menu … but here is the direct product link.
The other stuff you might want hit their search box or menu or “Canned Food Storage”.
On survivalacres.com just hit on their menu button on Dehydrated Foods and on the bottom of the page is the Motherlode.
Try This>
For great food storage articles go to
Just copy and paste links in your browser.
======================================================
I note the Nikkei fell 616 pts last night and the DOW is now below 13,000, 12,866 last I looked. The atmosphere at the FOMC is that of more rate cuts that will begin to put Inflation into overdrive-prices higher. Time is of the essence for prep if anyone reading this is going to do that.
$100 oil, the $100 barrel came courtesy of ONE trader on the NYMEX wanting to be the first to pay $100 for barrels of oil. One Trader! This shows how nervous traders are becoming and how volitility can skew the markets worldwide. Dangerous times. One false move interpreted wrong… or right and the whole house of cards will come smashing down and hard! No one knows when that instant will come. Only that it will. This is the downside of real-time computer trading. One misinterpreted thing and BANG it’s over as the lemmings flee their trades and markets collapse.
Right now you can see contagion in the markets worldwide things looking grave at the moment for paper assets and things looking up for certain commodity classes.
GlenGary
GlenGary
Jan 05, 2008
From Today’s Headlines.
US Stocks Dive To 12,800 – Worst Start Since 1904
Fed To Dump Another $60B To Save Economy
Jump In Jobless Rate Always Linked To Recessions
Unemployment Soars As Jobs Dwindle
Pressure Mounts For Huge Fed Rate Cut
Sir, should we send out a distress call? Maybe fire a few rockets?
It’ll be OK sailor, a mere scratch it is. This ship is unsinkable. The Titanic is the strongest ship afloat!
Duane, apparently the moderation won’t let the product link through. I tried.
Duane
Jan 06, 2008
GG
Think I will call my bank Monday and cash in a couple of CDs I have with them. Then I will purchase 2 or 3 nice gold coins. The interest I am getting from the CDs is no way near the appreciation I can get with gold. The bank probably won’t be to happy but the CDs will be garbage as the days go by.
Duane
ralph foster
Jan 06, 2008
THE FUTURE On the wall of my coin shop I have an enlarged picture of my father, his TKE fraternity brother, and the 1927 car they drove from Knox college [Galesburg, Illinois] to San Francisco and then on to San Diego and Tijuana in 1928. His stories of the trip are most memorable. Got lost in Arkansas and no body their could guide them to the correct road. Dirt dirt roads from L A to San Diego. They were among the first that took the Lincoln Highway West. No motels or chain food stores. That was only a mere 80 years ago. In that time span our fiat currency has change the face of America. FOR BETTER OR WORSE? See pages 199 to 209 of my book on fiat money. Another such picture is that of my mother and aunt Jean, taken in 1933, by the very car mon went to withdraw her $75.00 savings the day before the Bank of Oneida collapsed. She had more money than all in family of 8, except grand-pa Grand-pa who always kept a hundred in his pocket. JR in my heart coupled with decades of like research I believe, NOT KNOW, that we can return to such times in a matter of weeks–but far far worse. Since I last e-mailed a client about armed robberies of restaurants, two Indian restaurant owners were murdered in their business at 10 PM a day after he received that e-mail. A few day ago, before a business trip while opening my coin businesss a homeless person sleeping in my doorway pushed me over on to the sidewalk yelling that I should not bother him. TIME 11 AM 40 YARDS FROM U. C. BERKELEY CAMPUS ON BANCROFT WAY—A MAIN STREET. POLICE WOULD RESPOND ONLY IF I WAS HURT, AS CITY WANTS TO PROTECT THE POOR AND HOMELESS. AT MY AGE, PUSHING 70 I CAN STILL FALL THEY WAY MY KARATE INSTRUCTOR TAUGHT ME in USMC. ALSO THE VERY FOUNDATIONS OF THESE 80, ODD BUT FANTISTIC AND GREAT YEARS, ARE IMPLODING WHEN BIG BANKERS CAN REALLY FIND NO PROTECTION IN DERIVATIVES. I am privy to information about the Bank of England’s secret CRISIS MANAGEMENT department. THE FUTURE APPEARS RATHER BLEAK. RALPH FOSTER
/////
Bob
Jan 06, 2008
Another voice is heard from. Thank you Ralph Foster. Since you have a coin shop, you might be the person to ask about something we talked about above. I understand the fact that rare coins can be worth a lot more than the value of their gold and silver content and that a person can make more money buying and selling coins than buying and selling bullion.
My questions are these. What happens to the present day collector value of a coin after an economic crash? Is it likely that it will still be worth more than it’s metal content? Will a $1500 coin made from $50 worth of precious metal still be worth $1500? If not, isn’t it risky to buy coins over bullion as a safe haven in an economy that seems to be heading for a crash? It seems to me that one would be at risk of losing value unless the coin is ancient or of historical significance. I don’t want to take away from your coin business but I am just curious about your thoughts.
Bob
Jan 06, 2008
By the way, you should have used your Karate on the bum. That would have gotten police attention. Sounds like it’s time to retire and find a place in the hills, like Glen. Good luck.
GlenGary
Jan 06, 2008
Hi Duane,
In 2002 our local banker hooked me up with their financial planner when the manager of the bank noted me moving metals into their safety deposit vault. He suggested I steer clear of gold and silver because it was in his words a relic of the old days and I certainly was wasting my time. This guy was around 59-60 and had been a planner since the 1980s. I asked him about HIS finances and situation and after noting that I was in far better shape than him told him as much and MYOB Bud! A man that can’t handle his own finances,,,,,,
Had I listened, the $4.25 and $5 silver I bought well… the $260 to $297 gold…
The foreign exchange funds I hold??? Up several 100%?
A CD? A savings account? A basket of US stocks I hadn’t studied? We do what we know and go on instinct, education and belief. He is still a planner at near 65-66 and there. I’m near 55 and retired at 49. IQ is great and education is wonderful, but you must have common sense to make it all work for you. I’ve made over 300% and growing on the base coins and bars-stocks and a lot more on the Pedigreed if I sell them. Like art or jewels there will always be a market for the unique. At least in the last 2000-3000 years.
The unwinding of my metals holdings will probably be a slow process as I sell into an area before what I believe is a top. I will not hold for THE TOP. I never do that for one might miss a favorable exit point.
I might note that the Bible specifically says in Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 ”
a time for every purpose under the sun.
A time to be born and a time to die;
a time to plant and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
a time to kill and a time to heal …
a time to weep and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn and a time to dance …
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing;
a time to lose and a time to seek;
a time to rend and a time to sew;
a time to keep silent and a time to speak;
a time to love and a time to hate;
a time for war and a time for peace. ”
This applies to life and decisions and plans.Decide what season it is and plan for it. Ignore the seasons and get what everybody else gets. I find no comfort in being a member of a vast herd nearing the gate of a slaughter house.
GlenGary
GlenGary
Jan 06, 2008
Bob,
I think you are digging at putting one’s eggs all in one basket which is not the case for me and certainly not most metals investors. There is junk silver which I hold and bars and rounds-ditto. There are bullion coins that fetch a premium and when bought in say 2001-2002 at today’s prices a profit is a profit. 1/5th ounce bought in 2002 for $75 is a profit whether one gets the premium or not.
There are investor coins which many hold. But the percentage of the collection in ounces is generally not that big. My investment figured in percentage of ounces for collector coins is 5%. 95% in junk coins, rounds and bars because they are most disposable. I bought between 1999 and 2003. Nothing after that as I got the protection I thought I needed. Then I moved on to International stock funds for the most part. (I started storing food right after Katrina.)
This goes to taste and finances. Statistically I’m in the upper 5% of the population resource wise but know that can change in a heart beat given the right circumstances and that was my reason for buying metals. Then buying offshore investments, then storing food. Cover the bases. Then arming better.
I take things in steps over the term I believe I’m dealing with. I’m nearly through with all. I think I’m sitting pretty well. But this has taken years to complete.
I might note that even if the dollar collapses, there are currencies much stronger than ours that probably will not. They will be net buyers of metals as we are net sellers. Countries with no debt and not enough American exposure or English or Japanese probably will not collapse. We are far from a strong financial powerhouse and like a banana republic import far too much to pay for.
The strong will eat us. They will buy whatever value we offer.
GlenGary
Bob
Jan 06, 2008
If we are lucky, the strong will buy whatever we have of value. History shows us that usually they just take what they want. I’m not looking forward to this Glen. It looks worse every day.
Bob
Jan 06, 2008
Why do you put your metals in a bank? Mine is in a hole in the ground as we speak. Banks are the first place that the public or the government or foreign invaders will look for wealth. You’re crazy man. Would you put your ammo in a bank? It might actually have more value when the time comes. Just when I think you have it all figured out, you go and say something crazy like that. I want my ammo and my money minutes away from my sweaty little hands, no exceptions.
Bob
Jan 06, 2008
There is an old story about a supply packer that owned a mule train. An old Frenchman. He got an order for supplies from a mine but it was a COD arrangement and he had to front the money for the supplies. He went to a banker. The banker said that sure he would loan him the money but he needed to know how many mules the packer had.
“What for?” asked the packer.
“For collateral,” replied the banker and then he proceeded to explain the concept of collateral.
The packer told the banker how many mules he had and he got the loan. It was a successful venture and in a month the packer was back with a pocket full of cash to repay the banker. He peeled off a small portion of his money roll on top of the banker’s desk and stuffed the rest back in his pocket.
“That’s a lot of money,” said the banker, pointing at the packer’s pocket. “You should think about leaving it here in the bank where it will be safe.”
The packer stared at him for a minute and then asked, “How many mules you got?”
That’s the way we should look at banks.
GlenGary
Jan 06, 2008
Bob,
I kept my metals in the bank until around Sept 2005 because of traveling frequently-house and grounds unattended. Now that it looks like sh_t hitting the fan it is nearby with a good disguise.
As for banks. Citicorp is one of the first banks to do this-limit customer withdrawls of cash. ATM transactions are now 50% of your previous level in NY, which not only limits customer cash availability, but doubles ATM fees. Chaa Ching!
My advice here is that they will not be the last to do this and I would seriously consider a coffee can buried in the backyard a better alternative for handy cash than waiting for local banks to do that or worse.
In my world, my money is my money. In the banking world this is not the case. They act like parents or Robber-Barons.
My extra cash is coming out tomorrow morning-all of it. I guess it’s time to see how frozen the ground is.
I feel the Citicorp move might be the tip of the iceberg here. Things look shakey.
I took my Hi_Point 40 cal carbine out today and fired off a few clips. It beat what I thought it would do but I will get a speed loader for the stiff clip spring. Loading 10 rnds I grew a beard. It was a mother.
Glen
Bob
Jan 07, 2008
Now, that’s more like the Glen we’ve come to know.
Duane
Jan 07, 2008
Now I need to find an honest establishment where I can purchase some gold coins.
Bobby
Jan 07, 2008
This is a VERY long thread, however much worth reading. I am in agreement that SH*T is about to hit the fan! What I would like to here from you guys is what should I do about it? I here putting money in the ground and buying extra ammo (all of which i have done) however that is all short term, what can we do for the long term? any one got any idea’s ??
Bobby
Bob
Jan 07, 2008
There are so many variables, Bobby. I think a guy is just going to have to try and wing it to survive. We are too insignificant to affect any of the forces at play.
Bob
Jan 07, 2008
I still think you would be better off with one ounce bars, Duane. Coins right now are like jewelry. You’ll be paying an inflated price if you buy them now, but when the crash happens, in my opinion they will be valued more for their gold content than their collector value. Unless you buy old Roman coins or something like that, but even then you would have to look for the right buyer.
The value of a 1oz. bar is pretty straight forward and it will still appreciate in value when the price goes up.
I only have one 1889 ten dollar US coin. The rest is 1oz. bars and 5oz. silver bars. I only bought the coin because one of my relatives needed the money a few years back. But go with your gut, I’ve been wrong before.
Bob
Jan 07, 2008
Google Kitco, Duane. They’ll sell you some gold.
Duane
Jan 07, 2008
Hi Bob
I am thinking about mixing it up a little. I want to pay what an onunce of gold is worth plus the premiumn. I see thate the egagle, maple leaf and 1 once bar are the same dollars. I will make my move tomorrow however. I believe its time before the rush hour starts.
Michael Hampton
Jan 07, 2008
Around here in New Hampshire there’s definitely a preference for bullion coins. There’s a lot of silver, and I’m starting to see more 1/10 oz gold coins.
There is an advantage to certain bullion coins, though, such as the Krugerrand and American Eagle. That is that they are alloyed with another base metal. This makes them much easier to actually use in commerce. Your .9999 fine gold bars, as well as coins like the Maple Leaf, are too easily damaged, since pure gold is so soft.
GlenGary
Jan 08, 2008
Hi,
In all previous economic troubled times silver and gold coins were used like during the French Revolution-a paper collapse, 1851 US Depression (not totally sure of the year) at the hard times end of the Civil War when paper was suspect in Germany circa 1921 on their total paper money collapse and in Argentina I believe 1998.
Today many of those coins used are referred to as “Junk Silver” because they represent the bullion content of the coin and are not considered unique or special. I have a probably 800-900 ounces in junk. I’ve studied this market for 9 years straight and monitored my charts weekly and at times daily.
Folks see an old silver 50 cent piece and feel the weight of it and there will be no problem using them for money because THEY ARE MONEY. Coined in the USA many years ago. 40% to 90% silver coins are easy to carry the day silver hits only double today’s price an old dirty Morgan being worth then near $40.
Rounds would also be handy and the Sunshine Mint or Northwest Mint sell them as does Bullion Direct in Texas or SoCal Coin in Southern California. All of which I have bought off of. Google Engelhard or Johnson Mathey Bars and there will be dealers for both. I try to stay away from lesser known bar manufacturers as those bars might be harder to sell than older mint bars.
Historically silver trumps gold in the percentage of price run up. This is because silver is largely an unrecoverable metal and an industrial metal to boot which makes shortages more dire. The silver market is tighter than the gold market.
I bought my junk silver first with barter in mind. Then I bought some “bullion gold coins” and a few collector types. Then I hit silver bars and finally collector grade coins. I did this over a period from March 1999 to around mid 2005. I had time according to the charts to load up favorably.
Then in 2005 I started my food program which now I think is largely complete the last over 100 pound shipment coming in Wednesday to stuff into buckets for long term store. And now I just will buy more ammo and maybe hit a gun show to see what I can see.
What I do know. Fear comes from the unknown. Humans hate unknowns. Anxiety comes more from what we do not do than what we go ahead and do. Action reduces both and planning needs the physical aspect to it or it is worthless.
What becomes of America after the collapse?
The collapse is here already in slow motion with every tick down of the dollar, every few cent rise in gas, every utility bill you see, every monthly grocery bill you pay you see it right in your face. We are degrading inch by inch every single month since 2000 when oil was $27 and gas was $1.45 and natural gas was 30%-35% cheaper, when gold was well under $300 and silver was in the $4 range.
From beef to pork to chicken to seafood to toilet paper and paper towels to laundry detergent to $3.25 gas we are slowly imploding and it is now pecking away at jobs, credit, housing prices and used cars are a dime a dozen on Ebay and local dealers.
It is a slooooooow moooooo crash. Part inflationary and part deflationary which is one hell of a tight spot to be in. Which one do you fight?
While energy and freight prices put pressure on everything, sellers cannot raise prices enough to compensate because folks won’t buy at higher prices. Then, they can only cut jobs which exasperates the whole thing. Sloow Moo Crash.
In our seedy little world of figures lie and liars figure, the government is not about to announce that we entered a recession maybe last summer. They would cut their own throats to do so because who lends money to a government with big problems? The subprime mess was the beginning. Where it ends who knows?
But it is here and with every purchase and bill you pay it is screaming at you that dollars paid to you are worth less and less.
GlenGary
Anonymous
Jan 08, 2008
one Pamp Swisse ingot and 2 eagles – done
GlenGary
Jan 08, 2008
Hi,
Now get yourself some ‘junk silver for day to day transactions since smaller denominations are easier to spend without having to figure out how to get large change back as in…will the seller be able to make you change?
Today gold hit $881 intraday. Trading a one ounce gold coin or half ounce for gas or groceries or some bill might be gross over-kill and hard to receive change from unlike one or multiple silver half dollars that sell at around $8 ea today. Five of those fills my gas tank no change. Ten buys $80 in groceries unlike my fifth ounce gold bullion coins where one equals $240-$250 and would require a ton of something in return like worthless paper(?) or more goods than I need(?) or, the sight of which might bring too much attention?
$1000 face bag of junk silver-715 troy ounces (one bag of silver) costs $10,896 today-this moment. When I bought mine it cost me $3,725. I love that! Beat the heck out of inflation when figured even against gasoline. These bags are getting harder to find I might note if denominated in something like Walking Liberty Halves. Many are now mixed with old dimes or quarters. The first clue of a looming shortage. My gutt tells me by year end a modest price for bags will be $13,000 to $15,000 each. The premium for junk where I went was 0.2% unlike the 3.8% to 4.4% for bars and rounds. Keep premiums in mind.
Good Luck
Vote For Ron Paul and put honesty back into our money.
GlenGary
Bob
Jan 08, 2008
No wonder the price of gold went up. Duane is buying it all.
It’s fun to look at and play with, isn’t it Duane? You can admit it.
Don
Jan 09, 2008
Although I am only able to do, some minor preparation(compared to most of you), I still have a great advantage; I know the future. According to the Bible, the one thing, that stands out like a sore thumb, is that when the end of all this, does come about, you can’t find America or he influence, mentioned “anywhere” in the Bible. We will have a “3rd world” status. So I have decided, to only concentrate on my “short term” survival needs, and my “long term” Spiritual needs(By trusting Jesus as my savior)!
GlenGary
Jan 09, 2008
“It’s fun to look at and play with, isn’t it Duane? You can admit it.”
Bob, this is dangerous stuff.. touching it. I know.
After a year or so I soon found myself among others like myself who after living in the dark underbelly fringe of society landed in the 12 step program of Gold Fondler’s Anonymous unable to control the compulsion for fingering my hoard of the shiny yellow metal.
It was tough when it hit me Bob. I’d find myself drawn to it like it was calling me at all hours of the day and night and it felt so innocent at first simply touching it and bouncing it up and down in my hands.
(How am I doing here?)
But after a while I couldn’t stop, the urges, my sweaty palms, the excuses and lies I had to tell to slink away, to be alone, and then one night I got caught alone with it in the hall closet at 3 am. I was so ashamed. I knew there was no way out. I had fondled my last ounce and had to seek help with others like myself who had been taken over body and soul by that demanding cold yellow metal. It almost hurts to talk about it.
Bury it Duane! Bury it now! Bury it before it takes you over!
Don’t encourage him Bob. That stuff can consume a person.
Ever The Smart Ass
GlenGary
Man…the wind and rain outside sounds like a freight trai
GlenGary
Jan 09, 2008
What comes to mind is that the Bible states that No Man Will Know the end time and it has been guessed and second guessed and third guessed for centuries each generation thinking that the End Time was in their time.
Also, the Lord helps those who help themselves. And.. we all have a responsibility to our loved ones that is pretty well detailed in the Bible.
The end of American dominance is not the end of America nor the end of the world. It is only the end of maybe our arrogance and folly.
I’m sure that during many wars many folks felt that this is indeed the end of it all. In that I say that I have no real clue when the end will come and in the interim I would not like to be a burden to others and continue to pay my own way and protect those whom I love by taking care of their needs.
The wise man built his house upon a rock and not shifting sand. I believe in Trust your God and tie up your camels.
Good Luck
GlenGary
Sue in Oklahoma
Jan 09, 2008
America get your finger out of God’s eye. What happens to Israel happens to us…we are connected. America is under attack from Mexico to the South and the Lakota Indians to the North. They too are trying to take what they say has been stolen from them. Will we have to divide our land like Israel is been told to do? Putin supports the Lakota’s tribe withdrawal from all previously signed treaties with the United States Government. It has only just begun!
GlenGary
Jan 09, 2008
Sue,
The Lakota? Hate to tell you but we stole the Lakota’s land in that they were in America first. We signed treaties we did not respect and keep just like with every Indian tribe in America after we used armies to slaughter them greatly reducing their populations. One could compare it with genocide or ethnic cleansing to take what was theirs by force. I suppose that was the Christian thing to do?
We put these people into compounds called reservations-little more than ghettos and restricted their movements by threat of prison or death and we excluded them from equal jobs, education and even basic rights.
We starved them and were indifferent to their suffering and even today we ignore them. That is-was pure evil. “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.” “Thou shalt not kill.” Heck, between lying, outright theft, killing, etc, we probably blasted almost every one of God’s Laws straight into Hell dealing with the Lakota and other Indians. Shame is what I feel for what my ancestors did.
I can understand why they no longer want to be a part of America and I respect their right to make that decision. An Indian Reservation is sovereign land already and by treaty a nation. We have no rights in their nation. I guess that is another treaty some good Christians want to grind into dust.
You keep hating others like that and it will burn you up inside and embitter you and your life will know no peace on any level. Hate consumes everything it touches. It is anti-god. Hate the sin-love the sinner comes to mind.
Finally and this has bothered me for many years. I believe and trust in God. I believe in Heaven and believe that my bodily life is temporary. I believe I must live on this earth but not be of this earth. I question the fear of my so-called fellow Christians in that there is a heaven, you die in belief you go there. Why is there such an extreme fear of death that many Christians would commit any atrocity to save their hairy butts? It’s incompatable with Christianity.
I know I’m far from perfect and unfit in many ways. But I will not wade into hell with the Neocon Christian masses that look like Hitler Youth on steroids. They make my skin crawl and my insides feel sick and are the direct reason that many Americans run from the idea of a loving God and might well end up in hell. I want no part of that. It is as it is, pure cowardly evil cloaked by hypocrisy.
I see no difference between the Christian Right and Muslim hate groups as the violence both advocate and the unwillingness of both to deal with their cancer is in fact the same thing. Mirror images.
GlenGary
Sue in Oklahoma
Jan 10, 2008
I am part Native American and I have a Native American daughter-in-law. No I am not against the Native American! All I am saying is that there is a similarity to what happens to Israel happens to America, there is a connection.
Bob
Jan 10, 2008
You got me on the wrong subject Glen. The Indian movement today is nothing more than a political movement. The Walt Disney image of the poor Indians living in peace, being taken over and raped by the greedy white man is not historically accurate, but it is used to fuel a public guilt trip so that this political movement can extort money and power. I know this as fact, I see it every day and I live with it.
My wife is of Indian descent. If you go feeling ashamed and sorry for her, you’re going to get a kick in the nuts.
Most of the good ones died fighting for what was theirs or fighting just for the hell of it. The good ones that are left are doing just fine on their own without help from the government. The rest are a greedy, lazy, spiteful and useless bunch with their hands out, just like everybody else.
GlenGary
Jan 10, 2008
The Reservations by treaty are sovereign land meaning a country within a country that the state and Fed has no say in. In upstate NY the reservations have been subjected to police and state harassment for doing their business without collecting state and Fed taxes which by treaty are not required. Raids on sovereign nations. This is wrong.
The NY State Police were removed from Indian land at gun point a few years back by reservation police. Seems even 100 years later our folks cannot read a treaty. Have you read any of the treaties? Do you know that those treaties are enforced? They largely are used as toilet paper.
A Treaty is part of Constitutional Law once it is signed. Of course it has been a long time since I met anyone mainstream who has taken the time to even know what our laws of the land are and add voice to it’s protection and use.
What ails the Indians ails all of us and that is unconstitutional laws Washington just keeps passing and enforcing while nary a whimper is registered.
You don’t seem to realize that Conventions, Treaties are the law of our land adjoined to our Constitution at the hip. Federal income tax, Federal Reserve, Preemptive war, torture, spying on citizens, gun control the list is long where we are out of whack against our own laws and conventions and treaties.
The Indians had the nuts to point it out as it should be pointed out and I wish the states would point it out too… this total concentration of power to the Fed to the point all rights are off the table so sayeth the Fed.
GlenGary
GlenGary
Jan 10, 2008
This has no place here really, or maybe it does, because it involves America my country tis of thee.
Why I view war the way I do.
A youngster just out of high school 19, working his first good job, in love with a nice young lady and Bingo! He gets a letter and ends up in a place Vietnam, Republic Of… told to fight for his country and he is OK with that idea, freeing folks and fighting for the idea of liberty. The Gulf of Tonkin incident-we were attacked. We should respond. I’ll put my life on hold.
13 sweaty months in a wet, hot, bug and snake infested hell scared 24X7 and he watches his friends seems one by one or several in a single day ripped to shreds a screaming moaning bloody pulp some not enough to identify and he wonders when his turn will come nearly every minute at times. When will a round find him, when will he be blown to pieces, will it hurt? Will he suffer? Almost wishes it would just happen and get it over with.
His pals sent home to mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers the grief in their eyes tells you they will never ever be the same and you know you cannot be either. Not like- What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. What happened there you will always carry with you. How could you not?
You kill soldiers, black PJ farmers, sons, even daughters and mothers and yes kids find that bombs cannot see that they are just kids and you see the mangled or burned or crushed masses of flesh stinking retched bugs crawling on them animals chewed on them and you have to stuff your feelings for later. You cannot afford to act out what your mind is screaming at you. But you will someday down the road or insanity will claim you. You will cry alone trying to make sense of hell on earth. And you might pay with your marriage or sobriety or health but a toll it will take as you paste on a brave face. No one really wants to hear about it all. They prefer the sanitized old clips hear nothing loud, smell nothing feel nothing-no fear Oh what fun it is to watch on TV.
58,000 plus young folks, some I went to school with, some I played as kids with disappeared from the planet.
These folks who will never know the joy of finding love, to marry and raise up some kids-those joys and later to be proud grand parents. No, they get a plaque marker, their name on a wall life cut short at 18, 19, 22… for what?
A total lie! The Gulf of Tonkin Incident NEVER HAPPENED and as far as I’m concerned our government is responsible for every casket and every life interrupted, every broken family and every last divorce that caused. And now Iraq. They admit Iraq had ZERO to do with 9-11. What the hell are we doing?
When folks no longer trust there is generally a reason and how could you trust after living through all of that from those years of deceit those human lives expendable for what reason can you give? Money? Power? What? Some twisted fu.. in power? And no apologies..not even the gesture. Human lives that never mattered is what that screams.
I don’t hate anybody. But I stand appalled to this day at what our leaders are capable of and that folks are so blind to the meaning of it all. These things matter more than anyone will ever know. Inexcusable.
Patriots fought in Vietnam Republc Of. But twisted old men used good intentions to create pure evil against both nations. Sort of like today.
When we defend our country it has to be done with care and not some blind misplaced trust.
GlenGary
My brothers relate to me many things of which I can only listen and not judge.
Blind belief is dangerous is that lesson. I see it all the time and I want to barf.
Duane
Jan 11, 2008
Happy days are here again
Gold and Silver is up – win win win
if your in stocks – oh what a sin
happy days are here again
All you individuals that are into stocks please assume the position. Bend over and hold on to your ankles – tight. It is going to be a rough ride
So much to do – so little time.
GlenGary
Jan 11, 2008
Since I bought it, I’m up 380% to 400% silver and a firm 300% in gold. But Duane, it is going to get better soon. The Chinese are now trading gold on their own exchange where a day or two ago it was at $1000.
I call that a financial orgasm!
GlenGary
As for stocks, if you are in Coal to Liquid Fuel you will be doing good soon.
The United States Gov is firmly behind clean coal gassification with loan guarantees up to $8bn. All vehicles must run on something and we have a few centuries of coal in the US. (Tree huggers read up on it before having a cow.)
Anonymous
Jan 11, 2008
GG
I have heard that gold will be going up to $1000 an ounce which will be an historical event. I have also heard it will go higher than that. Me thinks that this economic mess is becoming a global problem. Gold and silver will go up until late February then have a little rest. It will be interesting the deeper we get into our recession what will transpire.
GlenGary
Jan 11, 2008
GG,
This is the part of investing that I live for! The rush… I love a good heart pounding on the edge of the seat rush! 2008 Will Be A Head Rush!
Metals
Gold adjusted to the liar BLS inflation figures 1980s $850 would equal 2006s $2275. We have a ways to go before the investing world takes a good heads up.
If you go by M3 in 1980- $1.8 Trillion, VS M3 in 2006-$13 Trillion then gold would figure in at $6,120 per ounce all things being equal and silver $408.
13 divided by 1.8 is 7.2, which is what we need to multiply the 1980′s gold price by, to get a more accurate “money creation inflation” adjusted price for today’s dollars. $850 x 7.2 = $6120.
The historic normal price for silver is 15 to 1. 15 ounces of silver buys one ounce of gold. To get to that place with the above calculation $6120 divided by 15=$408.
As for Silver, really my favorite, of the past 6 years, silver is outperforming gold, as the number of ounces of silver needed to buy gold has narrowed from 80 to 55 and I strongly believe that the best gains are to be made in silver.
When gold hits $1000 I intend to sell all of the yellow metal in coins etc; settle a few debts and throw the rest fully into silver. Even if silver is $20-$30 by then it will still be an extreme bargain. Historically, silver has been the right side of the trade.
GlenGary
juan p.
Jan 12, 2008
It is going to be sad to see a great nation be brought to its knees and finally to its death bed by its own people, but i guess that’s what it deserves after what it has done to other countries
GlenGary
Jan 12, 2008
Juan,
A Good line from Platoon-William Dafoe, “I guess we’ve been kicking ass so long that it’s our turn to get our butts kicked.”
Nature always wins and nature is about to take her revenge and I honestly can’t say that for all of our economic stupidity and all of our saber rattling arrogance that what ever happens is not our fault when we constantly believe lies as truth thinking as a nation we can borrow and bully ourselves wealthy or safe.
Heads so far up their own asses they can’t get them out for decades to mind the country’s business letting leaders dictate horrible policy and destroy even our Constitution.
Like a dog on a choker chain, we’ve run to near the last link in the chain that ends at fiscal reality. Man is that going to hurt!
GlenGary
PS-The truth hurts worse than a lie ever could.
Bob
Jan 13, 2008
Hey Glen. You’re dominating this thread, and you’re full of crap about the Indians. Other than that, you’re alright man.
I like beer.
Whatever happened to Susan28?
Bob
Jan 13, 2008
I had a big essay written on the Indian subject but ahhhh, whatever. All these pieces fit together to make up the reasons for our coming collapse. Even Susan28. She’s a Nihilist. Can you believe it? A sweetheart like that?
Nihilists and Indians and Federal bankers and hippies and Moslems and survivalists and fat people and stupid people and lazy people and the taxman and conspiracy buffs and politicians……..the list goes on and on.
Did you ever watch a movie called Harry Tracey? It’s a Western. One of the last lines is yelled out,” aren’t there any Americans out there anymore?!!?”
Just plain old Americans…and proud of it. Listen to Johnny Cash sing Ragged Old Flag.
Dammit we had something good here and it’s a freakin’ shame to see it go. It never was perfect but it was a helluva lot better than all the alternatives. I wish we could fix it.
Bob
Jan 13, 2008
You’d better listen to Ragged Old Flag before you respond to that one Glen. The whole thing.
GlenGary
Jan 13, 2008
I can’t help it..I once knew an Indian in the Biblical way and I got brain washed.
Bob likes beer and Glen likes boobs and butts!
GlenGary
Jan 13, 2008
Too many folks wanting to be Special. Unique, what ever. All the special folks I knew growing up rode the short nus to school… come to think of it I think these folks are THOSE FOLKS.
Special Needs… Hahahahaha. When the apocolypse comes aim well and maybe it can be turned back.
GlenGary
Jan 13, 2008
I listened. Yea it’s been a lot of places like…..
My flag’s been everywhere man, My flags been everywhere!
Crossed the Mid East deserts bare it’s been everywhere!
It’s been to:
England
France
Belgium
Germany
Egypt
Nam
Lebanon
Korea
Granada
Panama
Somalia
Cuba
Iraq
Panama
Burma
Japan
Italy
Cyprus
El’Salvador
Columbia
Honduras
Haiti
And Greenland
What a Killer
It’s been everywhere, man
It’s been everywhere, man
Crossed the deserts bare, man
Hahaha. Good Night
Bob
Jan 13, 2008
Glen, where did you ever get the idea that fighting, killing and dying wasn’t a part of being alive? You have been brainwashed by the hippies maybe. Check your history books. You can take part in all three and still be the good guy and sometimes even be right. Most times you don’t have a choice.
As an American, am I supposed to feel guilty that my country has won it’s fights? Would things be better if we had lost them all? We only lost one so far and people are still whining about it. It wasn’t even a big one.
The ideas that started this country were good ones and for the people involved, they were well worth fighting for. They were people without homes or land or countries. They put their differences aside as best they could and put together the best form of government that there had ever been. I’m not going to be ashamed of the fact that I admire and respect them for that.
I do feel bad however,that our people have taken the spoils of all the effort that preceeded them and pissed it away in one generation. Now they whine that things aren’t the way they should be. They all want something for nothing, yourself included.
You shouldn’t be happy that your metal is worth more. It isn’t worth more. Gold and silver are constants. What changes is the value of the things around them. Our paper currencies and our material junk is becoming worthless. Food will be worth more. Homes will be worthless unless a great fire burns most of them. There are lots of places to sleep out of the rain in North America. What good will your Corvette be? Or my motorcycle? I’m not going to use my gold and silver as a currency every day. I will spend it one piece at a time for the things I need most until it is gone. By the time I need to spend it, it will only be worth something to the people in power. Everyday people won’t take gold for bread.
I don’t think you are fully wrapping your head around the changes to come.
Duane
Jan 13, 2008
The person that has the loaf of bread to sell is the person in power. Bob please explain a little furture so I understand your statemat, “…..By the time I need to spend it, it will only be worth something to the people in power.”
GlenGary
Jan 13, 2008
Bob,
It all comes down to this; To you I must say, to search constantly for the flaws of any plan not yours does not leave open the ability to see the advantages that planning entails and blocks you from doing what might be necessary to help yourself. My plan is not a problem to you. It is your plan that determines your fate.
The person who plans for nothing is prepared for nothing. And luck most always favors the prepared.
What I have or don’t have and what I believe or do not believe will not impact you at all. It is 100% on your shoulders what you have, do not have, do, do not do and believe or do not believe or react to or not react to.
I told my nephew, it does no good to stare at another man’s plate to see what he has while the person on the other side of you takes your food you forgot to guard. Always do for you and yours and forget the plate that isn’t yours.
Short-Sweet and Not Dominating.
GlenGary,
GlenGary
Jan 13, 2008
I can literally not leave my house for 18 months or more and eat every day.
Do I need bread? No. Do I need milk? No. Do I need eggs? No. Meat? No, Veggies? NO, Fruit? No. There is nothing to barter for
until at least 18 months go by. Maybe two years.
That is the total point of long term stores.
Can I plan for everything? No. Can I plan for somethings? Yes.
Do I dare plan for nothing?
Duane
Jan 13, 2008
GG
Please continue your words of wisdom – I find truth and peace in your words. Your advise has shown me different ways to look at things and have confirmed some things I have been thinking about. Let me take this time to thank you for sharing your thoughts and I will be looking forward to future guidence and view perspectives.
Bob
Jan 13, 2008
Duane. The explanation of my statement. My gold is just an ace up my sleeve. As long as I am capable, I plan to look after myself with my skills and abilities and I don’t want people to know that I have any gold. My investment has been in myself. I never pass up a chance to learn something new or gain experience in something practical. That is something that I will always have with me no matter what and I will use it to survive.
I heard a story one time on TV, don’t know if it was true but it was inspiring none the less. There was a family in Russia during the revolution I think. They knew they were targets so the gathered what little gold they had and hammered it into six buttons that they covered with cloth an sewed onto their youngest daughter’s coat. Eventually the father was taken or killed(can’t remember) and the Mother and two daughters wound up in a prison camp. They tried everything to escape and eventually managed to bribe a guard with one of the buttons and get free. They made it to a port and used another two buttons to buy passage to America. They got here with nothing but the clothes on their back but managed to get by. The person telling the story was a great grandson or something and he ended the story by opening a little box in his desk and showing the three buttons that were still left. The point was, that you should never use up your reserves if there is any other way to make it. Save them for when they are the only thing left to keep you alive. Common people won’t be trading gold and silver because they won’t have any. The most important thing for them will be food and if they have it, they sure won’t trade it for gold. You’ll have to save it to trade with the people running things when you need something important. That is what I was trying to say.
If people see that you have all you need when they are starving, it will be a full time job trying to keep what is yours.
GlenGary
Jan 14, 2008
Tonight Silver $16.52 Gold $906…. a great start to a new week! Oil $93 and some change which should flatten gas prices a bit. Kitco Kitco Raw Raw Raw!
Thanks for the nice words Duane.
Bob, No one knows what is going to happen at this point in time. We can guess but that’s about it.
Things are moving fast and slow at the very same time. When the sh_t really hits the fan we are still at the beginning stages. What you or I or Duane will face might be three different things or the same thing. What we do about it has many variables too. The one thing I know is that none of us will go around screaming “HEY I GOT GOLD AND I ATE A THICK JUICY STEAK TODAY!” like the Pied Piper of Stupid…
Not one of us is suicidal. We might say; “Hey Dude, look at my rifle up close,,, see the little flash in the…. Hey where’d your head go?”
Like I said before or I think I said it, I live mostly like a hermit and not hardly anyone do I let get close for many reasons. I won’t explain that at all. Took years to get that way. I hob-nob some in the summer but share about zero. I’m sure polite folks would want to hear about my past. They might never be the same really. In upscale educated suburban or rural type settings I’m the guy on TV you wouldn’t want for a neighbor. There..I said it some.
One guy presently knows me on a personal level and he has no idea I have metals or even that I store food and he has known me 36 years. My wife calls him a fan because he can’t believe folks can escape themselves long term… do a 180 in the nic of time.
I don’t think he has ever seen our guns either come to think of it. I keep them and the ammo out of view always until recently during the day when I shoot-practice. I’m doubting I’ve been seen by more than a few people with a gun.
I don’t uncloak myself in areas I think private. We can laugh, joke, talk about women as men do, ride horses or boat…play cards. But financial stuff and some other stuff I keep off limits. I don’t feel that need to share and neither does the wife… we are basically the same person except she has really nice boo a never mind.
I think I was a mountainman in a previous life because solitude never bothers me at all. I have no pack instinct. I’m not socialized. I don’t play well with others a fact that being quiet can hide.
When I married I said; Feed me love me give me some quiet country acres and I’m good to go for life. Nothing has changed since then except the color of my hair and the fact that she had to slow down a bit when I chase her around nak,,, never mind.
GlenGary
Duane
Jan 14, 2008
Hi Bob
Thanks for the details on your statement. I believe I have a better understanding now. I do agree that the precious metals will be used as last resort for any and all things. Once you use them there is not easy replacement of what one spends. If an individual can do it themself instead of paying for it then this is where education pays off. I am visioning an cute house maid that will live in and I can pay 1 silver dollar a week for her services. This keeps me collecting silver – even today. The reality is that my spouse would not allow a live-in and there are other priorities. We will have to blend in with the majority of the population. It is kinda like when no one can afford electricity and your the only one on the block with lights on. Time to paint your windows black or get some good blinds to conceal the lights. This is extreem but just an example.
GlenGary
Jan 14, 2008
Duane,
I think we have a ways to go yet before we hit the Red Alert button. Countries that hold our $$’s as reserve cash are many and the amounts run 100s of billions to the trillion and a half mark.
Now, not being completely stupid they would like to get rid of the dollars we so kindly bestowed on them by buying cars, Chinese products and of course oil. Not wanting to hold a worthless dollar plans were devised to get rid of the herring currency.
In the financial news I see influxes of cash to our banks 10 billion here 12 billion there, our brokerage houses and some large Blue Chip companies. A little stock buying at a time, nibbling on them so as not to have folks get the idea that they are dumping dollars and slowly buying us out. This cash transfusion will buoy the banks and related companies up while throwing dollars into the economy causing inflation, maybe hyperinflation for us.
These folks will be our new masters as one by one using our old trade dollars they return them to buy controlling stock interest in everything they touch. What’s worse is if we stop them we put ourselves into a deep grave.
You see the gold and silver market expanding due to all the spare dollar bills looking for a home away from paper and more dollars chasing natural resources in other countries looking for value before the dollar hits total trash status. Divesting of a trash currency…. it will go on until the currency is near worthless.
Buys us time to prepare is all it is worth to us. And gold and silver will have a price to sell for in Euros or Dinars or Rubles or even Yuan. Those countries although hurt somewhat have some metal backing to their money and are the net institutional buyers of metals at this time.100′s of tons!
And he who has the most gold wins.
GlenGary
Bob
Jan 17, 2008
I just read a good Mark Twain quote on one of the Kitco commentaries.
“I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money.”
That’s a good one.
Don
Jan 18, 2008
Let’s get back on tract, and talk about the things that really matter;
I would like to make a prediction. Based on the fact, that right now, all of our enemies in the Middle-East, are afraid to move against us here at home(in the USA), because they know, that our president, will make them pay for it(because he has already proven that he will).
Therefore, my prediction is, that we all have exactly 12 months, to prepare ourselves for true self sufficiency; Because in almost exactly one year, a new Democratic president will take office, and then all bets are off.
Oh by the way; while you are preparing for your survival, in the brave new world yet to come, it is also a good idea, to prepare for eternity. Because according to the Bible, all of us are going to live for ever, somewhere. When you die, it’s not the end, it’s just the beginning. So trust in Jesus, for your personal salvation, today!
I know that some, might wonder, what all this has to do with this site: Well we are talking about, “Homeland Stupidity”, and what could be any more stupid, than ignoring the facts.
Duane
Jan 18, 2008
Cool – the President is going to give us more money. More money to buy precious metals with. When will it end?
GlenGary
Jan 18, 2008
Hello Duane and Don,
The Federal Deficit is up a few notches spending more money we obviously don’t have and we’ll send that overseas to China and Japan and Saudi Arabia as well. But it should boost inflation and silver and gold with it.
Food Storage, I went to US Plastics on the web and bought 9 more buckets in various sizes to finish off my main supplies. They have reduced their prices a little and their shipping a whole ton as the more I bought the less it cost to ship. Cool!
As for the God remarks, there are plenty of us who believe in God and pray regularly and try our best not to be a walking offense to him and when possible, share what he has done in our lives. God opens eyes and no where is this more relevant than to see folks making preparation to save their families from what may come. Jesus saves both on earth and after death.
In the Bible, man must lead his family as God’s word leads him or he is unfit to be a husband or a father. To this end I have learned many things in life. A home is generally happy and needs met where the man tries to be as just as his spiritual leader-God-The Bible. The steady hand, leading by example and teaching with intelligence and reason.
In the community there are responsibilities, but one cannot abdicate responsibility and protection to family in taking on responsibility. Vows were taken and vows need to be honored.
If folks don’t hear or see the obvious warnings and react in a manner to help themselves and their families using the resources at their disposal then they reap what they sow. If they have not read that the Bible sees honest money in the metals as does our Constitution, that is their fault and I shall not pay for that kind of sheer ignorance and dissonance with myself or my family.
I believe that God is a gentleman and he speaks to us in various ways and some are of warning. If we refuse to listen then life slaps us around to the point that we wish we would have listened. Such is the joy or burden of everyone.
GlenGary
Bob
Jan 18, 2008
“HEY, I GOT GOLD AND I ATE A THICK JUICY STEAK TODAY!!!”
That was a pretty good one too.
Hey Duane. This magic money is pretty neat. I’ll give you a billion if you want. It’s easy. Doesn’t have to be real, I’ll just pull it out of my butt and pay interest on it like everybody else. I’ll pay the interest with more money that I’ll pull out of my butt.
Of course we would save transfer costs if you just pulled it out of your own butt.
These politicians are insane.
GlenGary
Jan 19, 2008
Bob,
You are precisely correct. These idiots have been so busy printing trillions for themselves devaluing the thousands that the normal folks make a year and tax to kingdom come in effect stealing more that they said “OOPS! We forgot to leave the sheep a few bucks for bread and meds so let’s print them a few as well.”
$100-$150 Billion? Stop this recession? Yea, right. $800 isn’t going to do a thing for me except buy 1000 rnds of ammo and a hunk of this summer’s gasoline from Bush’s buddies. As for stop foreclosures? That’s like throwing tomatoes at tanks.
By the way, this morning I saw gas at $2.68 a gallon. It was sort of like seeing Big Foot or a UFO…it terrified me like maybe I was in the Twilight Zone! I got scared and confused like I was Rip van Winkle.
GlenGary
Mike
Jan 20, 2008
Socialist states work all over Europe, and they work well. You guys can choose to blind yourselves to that fact but your blindness does not impact upon reality and thus your movement does not reach the people you want to help.
In any case, get the rest of the story out.
Michael Hampton
Jan 20, 2008
Socialist states work well? What sort of fantasy world do they work well in? They certainly don’t work here in the real world. Or have you taken an actual look at Europe lately?
Duane
Jan 20, 2008
Mike
Are you an american?
GlenGary
Jan 20, 2008
Mike,
Nanny Government? Socialism is one step from Communism and is a nanny state which no red blooded American could accept. $10 gas, super high taxes, Europeans flood the US for good medical care because their Doctors suck. Yea, Socialism is wonderful Dude and you think we are blind.
When the Musliims get done immigrating to Europe and suck up all the Government Freebies leaving you even higher taxes come back and tell us all how great Europe is.
Shades of Hitler! You Jest?
GlenGary
Bob
Jan 20, 2008
Ha! Poor Mike. Comments #76-82 above will give you my rebuttle. No sense taking up space saying the same thing again.
You and your ‘Milkbone underwear of socialist ideas’ are dancing in a pack of wild dogs here.
Don
Jan 20, 2008
There is an old story, and I will try to tell it right;
Some years ago, Joseph Stalin call two of his prospective successors, into his office, for a meeting; and he handed each of them a life bird. One was so nervous as to what he wanted, that he didn’t hold the bird correctly and it flew out the window. Therefore the other, when she saw how displeased Stalin was, held his bird so tightly, that he killed it.
Then Stalin said, “Bring me a bird”, and as he held it by it’s feet, he began to slowly and carefully pluck out it’s feathers. After a while, he held out his open hand to reveal the featherless and helpless bird, shivering from the trauma it had suffered, and said; See comrades, now this bird is right where we want him to be. Totally in our control and grateful for the comfort and warmth, that we offer it.
Although I am not a rebel, and truly appreciate the governments “help”, from time to time, and sees the governments responsibility, to help those of it’s citizens, that are truly in need. This is what can happen, when we are too dependant upon the government. After taking away all of our power to take care of ourselves, we will truly be dependant upon it.
samsquest
Jan 20, 2008
Lets be honest… the economy is going to crash. That’s it.. it will happen. The US will be a third world country in a matter of months. I certainly do not want to be in a large city when it happens. Utter chaos will ensue. All the papmered people who live in the high rise apartments who know nothing more than to turn on an electric light switch or go to their sink for water will die horrible deaths. Farmers and hunters will survive but all the rest will turn on each other. China will buy up everything for pennies on the dollar and our goverment will be in such disarray that the military will have to step in with martial law the people will resist this and create local militias who will make war against the federal military. We will then be invaded from overseas for our rich farm lands and coal deposits. Remember the movie “Red Dawn” … it will be red but from China not Russia.
What we are seeing is the fall of the last great state empire before a one world goverment and this has been planned for decades.
GlenGary
Jan 21, 2008
samsquest
The Mistakes in Red Dawn were blinding. They attacked bases. A no no. They didn’t wipeout train tracks and trestles, think resupply…loosen a rail here, a rail there train collides with the trestle and BOOM gone for months. A wrench works better than explosives. Too much cinema thinking. Armies work best when fed. Deprive them.
No tank traps…think stolen backhoe steep deep hole covered over-a little crude in there or gas, nose first it goes and fire the hole with a round of flash bang and leave. Engagement is what they would want. Not you. Think landslides or road collapses. Tanks and trucks are heavy so undermining a road bed… road slipage takes quit a while to fix while under sniper fire.
Leaders and Officers should have been prime targets and not grunts for if you cut off the head…. Sniper shots are far better than straight out attacks. Nerves depleted soldiers go nuts. “Hey! Who wants these Captain’s Bars?” No body. “Who wants to be head bureacrat?” No Body. When leaders have to hide little gets done.
You don’t risk assets unless you have assets to risk. I hope the NSA is taking notes tonight. Betting the reason why the Shrub hasn’t played Marshal Law is because every other site on the net contains the seeds of total malcontent and even cops are dead against Marshal Law.
With 220,000 known gang members in just La California armed to the teeth just the gang problem would be more task than they have Army for right now. 1000 Baghdads. Walmarts the neighborhood armories. Daunting. A real huge bite out of a sandwich someone might choke on.
GlenGary
The Chinese will wait until we exhaust ourselves when we think it’s over.
Duane
Jan 21, 2008
Looks like stageflation is a word being uttered more and more. Inflation mixed with constant loss of jobs – not a good picture. The next step, which will take a while, will be devaluation. This stage is when silver will loose some of it’s luster. Gold will also loose a little but be one of the commodities that will maintain value. This stage is a ways off but looks like stagflation is becoming a reality.
GlenGary
Jan 21, 2008
Duane,
As soon as corporate bonds AA rated (Think Junk Bond) start hitting the fan it will make the mortgage mess look like a small bump in the road and our dollar will no longer stagflate, it will just turn over and flat out die. The losses to that market will buckle everyone’s legs once they start. This will be a quick game of dominos as foreign investors are now looking for more cracks in our fraudulent system and the cracks are there.
Forget stocks, forget bonds, embrace the metals, food stores and ammo. If there can be any salvation it will be lasting until some type of order is restored.
GlenGary
Duane
Jan 21, 2008
GG
I need educating. What indicators will they be to look for when junk bonds start taking a dump. Not familar with the concepts. Why will junk bonds have so much power to the market. Sorry for my stupidity but like I said – I need educating.
I read somewhere that the possibility exists that the market will loose a 1000 points on Tuesday. It doesn’t sound right but something about the Asia market.
GlenGary
Jan 21, 2008
Hi Duane,
Basically I sell you a Lexus and deliver it and guarantee that it is indeed a Lexus (Think A Class Bond). You get the sucker home and drive it for months happy that it is indeed a Lexus. One morning it fails to start (think default) and you pop the hood, look in and see an engine from an old used Malibu. Upon further inspection you find the frame is actually an older Mazda and it is in essence a worthless chop-shop vehicle. “Junk Bonds improperly rated as A Bonds.”
You bring the vehicle back to me for a refund and since I’ve sold 100 of those suckers for $50,000 a piece and now everybody wants a refund I cannot pay you anything. My insurance company found out that misrepresentation and my financial coverage is now null. Complete and utter default on my part and with it your money.
Now think $1 Trillion minimum in those bogus rated bonds floating around out there with maybe a conservative default rate of 4% or $400 Billion which we now add to the estimated $1 full trillion in real estate mortgage loses and write-downs and then add in credit card defaults and car repossessions. SPLAT!
One bond guarantee company just croaked last week. It might be a few weeks until the regular media gathers the nerve to say; “And…Oh, by the way…..”
These People Are Frigging Geniuses!
GlenGary
PS–The World Now Sees That
We Are Swimming Naked and The Game Is Over.
The Smell Of Blood Is Everywhere.
GlenGary
Jan 21, 2008
Oh yea…the ESTIMATED Positions are Drum roll,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
FORTY-TRILLION BUCKS! Unbelieveable. Unreal!
Where in the ??? Who??? Can’t quite wrap my mind around that yet.
Bob
Jan 21, 2008
The three “B’s” of life………Big Big Bucks.
I’ve been expecting this for so long and seen it headed off at the pass so many times, that now it is hard for me to believe it is really here.
It isn’t fear that I feel, it’s more like dread. Like the way you feel Sunday night about going to work on Monday morning at 5:00am when you are still shaky and hungover from Saturday night and you haven’t been able to eat anything but a bowl of soup. Except worse. And I mean real work, sweating in the hot sun with black flies and mosquitoes crawling all over you trying to fall trees on a 70% sidehill.
This is going to be absolutely cruel and unbearable for people. In the end, everything we know will be gone and there will be no going back.
The first thing we learn from history is that we don’t learn from history.
Duane
Jan 21, 2008
GG
Thank you for an excellent analogy. My my – are we in for a fall. It only takes one domino to bring down all the rest. So what do you figure a time schedule is for this to start to ramp up. What will this do to the average individual out there working a 9 to 5? Sounds like its time to excellerate any individual protection plans(ie. food, security, etc).
Guess what – the majority of the people will go to work tomorrow just like any other day. This economic environment has to hit the average individual soon. I know that they are already being hit and they are paying more and more but not realising what is happening and what is going to happen.
Thanks again for the analogy.
Don
Jan 22, 2008
For sale: Slightly used Lexus, cheap. Paid $50.000 for it, but am willing to sell it at a loss. One problem, the hood is stuck, and will not open.
All kidding aside; This is why we should trust, that the LORD is in complete control!
Don
Jan 22, 2008
A few minutes later……..
I just found this headline: “SINGAPORE (Reuters) – Stocks tumbled across Asia on Tuesday, and U.S. stock index futures sank, as panic gripped markets that a U.S. recession could derail global economic growth, sending investors fleeing to safe-haven government bonds.”
Could this be the same “Junk” bonds, that you were talking about?!?!
GlenGary
Jan 22, 2008
Bob
I told my wife tonight that you can prepare for literally anything in a normal world. But the last five years of studying these markets was like knowing deep inside that it was doomed to fail because so much was out of control and anyone who tried to point that out was told they were crazy. It was a manic market.
I told her that what even she had failed to wrap her mind around was that this market was like no other ever seen before in history and the depth of the destruction would be total and how it will phase in I have no clue and what would become of us I have no clue and as much as I try to order my life…. such thoughts are now impossible. We wait and see day by day and waiting is a killer even though there is worse after waiting I fear.
>”The first thing we learn from history is that we don’t learn from history.”
Every second generation after bad times seems to think that they have advanced so far up the intelligence scale that the old rules couldn’t possibly to them.”
GlenGary
GlenGary
Jan 22, 2008
Duane,
These headlines at 2am were on top of each other. Per Your Question.
“Bond Ins Demise Threatens $2.6 Trillion Bond Market”
“Stocks Plummet In Germany, Hong Kong, India, Brazil”
Then>>”$120B Lost In Euro Stock Crash – Black Tuesday For US”
“TSX Canadian Stocks Plunge 600 Points”
“Global Market Carnage Spreads To Canada, LatAm”
It can stop any time now….please stop!
GG
Duane
Jan 22, 2008
This is not a drill – this is not a dril – all hands man your battle staions – general quarters – general quarters. Putting on my hard helment and life vest – lets see what today brings. Doesn’t sound to good.
susan28
Jan 22, 2008
“safe-haven government bonds.”
is that like “military intelligence” or “jumbo shrimp”? a protection racket is what it is.
consider: this planet makes enough food to feed the entire population many times over. all this crap is greed-driven and completely man-made. it need not be. but for it *not* to be, we’d have to be a different species than we are. we are greedy, violent, avaricious brutes who worship combat and who aren’t happy without a steady supply faces to crush under our boots. we are warriors by nature, and we deserve to reap everything we sow and when it finally all burns down, i’m gonna dance in the rubble and spit on the ashes, resting secure in the knowledge that i’ll be dead by the time we build it all up again for yet another foray into the eternal Breach..
hear me or continue to embrace your lofty idealistic platitudes: there will never, *ever* be peace on earth, so if you are unable to perform the psychological alchemy of actually *getting off* on misery and eternal strife and struggle, then you’re in the wrong DNA stream and on the *wrong* planet.
as long as human nature remains what it is, our socio-economic constructs will continue to reflect that proclivity toward predation, and this crap will be an endless cycle. genetic engineering could save us, *if* we use it to re-construct the species as one inclined toward peaceful cooperation rather than violent competition, but we won’t.
the problem with genetic engineering is that the first people to do it will be those in power at the time the technology matures, who will invariably be violent and agressive or they wouldn’t *be* in power under our current biological paradigm and who will use it to *amplify* the disparity between classes rather than closing it. instead of making us all invulnerable to pain and raising our baseline emotional thermostat to “blissful”, what will happen is the ruling class will treat themselves to that cocktail – and disabuse themselves of the last vestiges of that pesky *empathy* while they’re at it – and use the same science to create a race of stupid, scared rabbits to be their at-long-last permanenent and compliant servants.
they will do this because only someone who’s *already* been wired to “love thy neighbor” would be inclined to use technology to help others rather than dominate them. i don’t think we’ll make it across that crucial synapse.
i’d love to be wrong, of course. but i’m not. only Divine Intervention along the lines of what the Christians believe in could fix this hellish place, but that’s just a pipe dream and anyone with a fully-operational cerebral cortex knows it. we’re animals, and animals are brutes. love it or loathe it, but like the Scion, it will continue to roam the accursed highway that is the human central nervous system, and earth will continue to be one big minefield.
we’re doomed. not just the country, but the planet. well, our species at least. oh, we’ll survive (unfortunately), but war and misery will always be our constant companions.
Thus Spake the Nihilist.
GlenGary
Jan 22, 2008
Hi Don,
I was talking about business bonds but according to sources I have read, the US Treasury Bonds that these folks are fleeing to have a bit of fraud behind them too. With today’s 3/4% rate cut I can’t see fleeing to a US Bond but hey… who am I to question high finance. Those bond dollars might depreciate into thin air as the dollar tanks.
With a 3/4% rate cut and a tax cut they are trying to put out the fire with gasoline.
GG
GlenGary
Jan 22, 2008
Duane,
These folks have yet begun to fight this which means as with the mortgage mess we may see several months of happy-feet dancing trying to stall the inevitable collapse. I have no idea how they keep this stuff up as long as they do. And because we have never been in this place before I guess who knows?
I was in a Walmart today to buy a few hundred rnds of ammo and had to search high and low for 15 minutes for ANY clerk. Finally I hit automotive service and their guy helped me. I asked him what was up, why no clerks and he said that they laid quite a few off and some were in the back unloading a truck. Unreal.
As consumerism shrinks the stores will lay off and some will just belly-up. Factories-what’s left of them will shrink production and layoff. Cities, towns etc will need to lose folks due to shrinking budgets and less sales taxes. In my area teachers have been getting hit hard for five years and this will not cease until class sizes are impossible. Cops will take a hit too. This will exasperate foreclosures, car repos and creditcard default rates. Banks will layoff more if not bellyup. This thing will be self feeding each layoff causing more pain.
This could be a slow agonizing process.
GG
GlenGary
Jan 22, 2008
Hi,
How did we get here? The United States since 1945 has paid to put troops in Germany, The Philippines, various Mid Eastern countries, South Korea, Japan in South America and literally on 700 bases in 180 countries. We PAY to protect oil shipping lanes for the Chinese and Japanese and protect countries from threats with taxpayer money.
That would be like me coming to your house and paying you $1000 for the privilege of painting your house plus supply all the paint then paying you to let me mow your lawn all summer and supplying everything again.
So… we spent ourselves poor protecting other countries and their interests and did they contribute? No. But what they will do now is use ALL of their saved defense monies and buy us out making us their subjects. Are we stupid? Yes!
Think of what all those trillions could have done spent inside America!
GG
Duane
Jan 22, 2008
I’m just a pee-on in a well established university and work 39 hours a week. Why can I invision that enrollment should be down in this economic nightmare but this year has been one of the highest enrollments in our history. My thoughts are – why get that 4 or 6 year degree just so one can make lots of worthless dollars. Whatever drive this I can be thankfuk for because I have money coming in. We haven’t felt the squeeze yet at the university but when we do there will be a lot of people that live sheltered lives (the world revolves around them attitude) that will have. “the deer in the headlights look”. I am to old for this chit.
GlenGary
Jan 22, 2008
Duane,
Up until around August when the Caa Caa started to hit the fan I imagine that 2007-2008 college finances had been secured by many parents and even business contributions or funds were not in question.
In November when I last really talked to my white collar neighbors they saw the mortgage mess as a small blip no reason to get upset everything will come back around–Election Years are never off years and that’s that the world keeps turning, I don’t plan to do anything different why should I?
Demographics play a role. I live in a neighborhood of 300K to 500K homes and nobody is hardly alarmed or they hide it pretty well. My wife teaches 20 miles away innercity schools and those folks are seeing more crime, more violence, more drugs and less income. The poor get hammered first-always.
It’ll hit them… it’ll take their finances to suffer.
GG
Bob
Jan 22, 2008
Woah, Susan, that’s heavy stuff man. Here’s a little Monty Python to pick you up.
When you’re chewin’ on life’s grissle,
Don’t grumble, give a whistle,
And this’ll help things turn out for the best,
And,
Always look on the bright side of life………
Come on, you know the song!
If believing that there is a cosmic right and wrong and that there will come a day when all these bastards will get what’s coming to them, is the only thing keeping a person sane, then why not believe that? You can’t say for sure what the truth is, there is just no way. It’s just a matter of what you believe. You’ll never know if you are right, no matter what that belief is.(Unless there actually is a second coming. Wow, cool, I never thought of that.)
Why not believe in something that makes it all bearable for your own sake, if nothing else. And if, in the process, you try to be the best human being you can be, what’s the harm?
Glen. On comment 331. We’ve kept the socialist states of Mike the socialist alive and well so that they can criticize our military spending and heartless capitalist ways. That’s not stupidity. It’s irony. I think the American heart was in the right place at the time. They actually thought they were making the world a better place after WWII. A world of independent, free states cooperating together in trade, and united against tyrrany. Truman and Eisenhower were good men. It just got crazy and corrupted like good things do.(Back to comment 233) Is that harder to believe than the idea of an age old conspiracy working through the years towards a one world government of complete oppression?
Duane. I like your attitude. You’re sure a happy sucker.
Don
Jan 23, 2008
In response, to susan28
Truly, the picture you painted of the future, was a sad one; But the future, the Bible tells us about, is one of Hope. But don’t sell the Bible short; There is much in it, that deals with the exact issue, of this very site;
e.g. “A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” Proverbs 22:3
The LORD gives us plenty of warnings, for us to prepare for future calamities.
-And there is always Hope, in Jesus!-
susan28
Jan 23, 2008
Bob: ha, thanks babe, i needed that.. Monty Rules!! except that we finally GOT that Shrubbery.. careful what you ask for!
i was actually raised catholic and still essentially have that ethic, sans the trusting innocence.. but i do have a pic of Jesus above my bed even still, cuz even if he wasn’t real (not saying he wasn’t), his *story* is, and it’s from that which i draw inspiration. you don’t need belief for that, just agreement. but i won’t bank on an uncertainty though because excluding other possibilitites in favour of another just because one is more warm and fuzzy sets you up for a broadside from the *actual* reality that snuck up when you had your nose buried in the flowers (not that i don’t like the occasional snort) and also because i’m just not wired for it. couldn’t do it if i tried – and i know, cuz i *did* .. after leaving the Catholic church at 15 i shopped around, got the laying-on-of-hands, altar call, the whole 9, but nada. and in the end, the Annointed woman who’d spoken in tongues and laid the best whammy on me she could, ultimately said what you did: “you just have to *choose* to believe”. wrong response, but i had a feeling it was the most truthful statement i’d ever hear on the matter. but it’s not a choice it’s a condition that’s either on or off. it’s the Binary Bit of our intellect, the biological yes/no switch that’s triggered (or not) by stimuli, and it does not operate manually. attempted manual operation of the belief switch is called “hope” and is routed differently.
but because of the upbringing, which i was very much in accordance with as far as the “rules for living” part and i still walk that walk to the best of my ability, not out of adoration for God but simply because it appeals to me. i *like* being nice. it’s fun!
and to Bob and Don i will apologise for one thing and that’s the tone of certainty in my statement yesterday. it was a defensive response to the tendency of religious people to state *their* (hunches basically) as fact. but you’ve just come REAL humble with me, Bob, on the doubt issue, AWESOME honesty, i respect the crap outta you now more than ever. but yeah, orthodox atheism is every bit as arrogant as the most “convinced” zealot of any other belief system, and i went there. sorry. i’m more properly described as agnostic but gave way to despair. my bad.
re: soocialism. you may or may not know that the welfare state was actually enacted to *prevent* the spread of communism after ww2, with Mother Russia looking real good to the hordes of dispossessed european peasants who *before* communism had no alternative but to take whatever scraps were thrown them. but now Russia was inviting them to join and spread the revolution, and there was no love lost between them and their previous overlords who were still essentially holdovers from feudalism.
we know from sociology / pol-sci that it takes literal starvation to make the average population revolt (look at the time we have here trying to motivate people to fight for abstract principles, even precious ones like Liberty. like talking to a wall. but starvation? THAT gets their attention, and europe’s plebes were feelin’ Red..
the solution? not so much a bribe as a *distraction* – give them just enough money to take the edge off just enough to extinguish the fire of revolution, but not enough for them to actually get ahead, thereby saving capitalism while keeping the feudal power structure intact. even if the plebes were still Red at heart, they just weren’t hungry anymore, and that was their undoing.
they themselves were better off this way than under communism, it was actually a decent compromise, giving the plebes a modicum of self-determination at least, and they weren’t having their jobs assigned by the Gov etc. but if the Bluebloods got too greedy the plebes’d have gone Red, then nobody wins. it’s easy for us successful types to say we wouldn’t go Red if we were choking and there was oxygen in Stalin’s nuts, but i haven’t walked in their shoes so i don’t judge. i’d like to think if we abolished welfare and i oneday couldn’t support myself (not likely) that i’d do the honourable thing and check out rather than agitate for welfare or heaven forbid steal, but again, easy to say when languishing in luxury on the beach.
i think another thing with the welfare state is that it is a product of industrialism, or the “employment state”. people used to have trades, now they had “jobs”. if you have a farm your only worry is crop failure, but a factory worker’s plight is dependent on the caprices of their Masters, and Carnegie and co were expert at removing alternative means of income. those are the folks who forced compulsory education thru, with the goal of actually *discouraging* self-reliance (“ok everyone sit in a circle!”) and making people dependent on superiors not just for knowledge but for self worth (“very GOOD, susan!! you get a STAR for regurgitating that statist propaganda!!”) and they used welfare to pacify people as well as keep wages low by maintaining a ready pool of workers to fill the shoes of the rebellious. you don’t feed the unemployed they die or revolt, then labour gains leverage. can’t have that.
conclusion: welfare is a function of monopoly capitalism, not communism. it was made to curb the desire of the impoverished jetsam of the corporate state to eat the rich. it is to economics what the “limited hangout” is to the intelligence world: throw ‘em a bone and they’ll go away.
Bob
Jan 23, 2008
Now you’re coming around Susan.
Don’t respect me too much. I’m sitting here in my long johns with chip crumbs on my shirt as I write this. I don’t smell very good either. Hard day at the “office”….killed a lot of trees.
You’re right about welfare, but because it turns people into bums, I see it as a bad thing. It’s not natural.
Bob
Jan 23, 2008
Susan28. Actually,(back to my Monty Python comment)there is supposed to be a way to know the truth, but I’ve never had the time or level of despair needed to climb up into the hills and fast for a month or two to find Nirvana. It is actually supposed to work. All the great ones did it. If I ever try it, I’ll let you know.
You would think that we would all want to give it a go, but it sounds hard and we don’t like things that are hard. We’d rather read the book or watch the movie.
susan28
Jan 24, 2008
well i’m about to throw in on the purchase of a private island in the middle of a crater lake in Nicaragua for a permanent Burning Man community, so once the crate of Toastchee’s runs out the fast is on, hehe.. and the law there is that you have to leave for 3 days every 3 months, so that’s just about right. bring myself to the brink of death floating in the middle of an active volcano for 2 months, then bounce back to Costa Rica for a decadent weekend in san jose to re-tarnish my halo and score another crate ‘a crackers.. it’s all i can eat down there.. i can’t get the meat down cuz my body rejects anything not pumped full of steroids and preservatives.. i only eat things made by machines.. Cacique and crackers, food of the gods..
GlenGary
Jan 29, 2008
Time to be a Patriot American and Support The Constitution so we don’t continue to have so much homeland stupidity. Please Show You Support To Impeach Cheney At
Takes only a minute and it makes one feel like they’ve done something.
Thanks (Either Way)
Please Don’t Steal.
The Government
Hates Competition!
GG
susan28
Jan 29, 2008
link didn’t show, GG. i can never get a link to post here, dunno why. i’ve tried every format. just spell out the so we can cut and paste.
another organisation dedicated to impeachment is . they’re a nationwide movement that will likely continue networking for Constitutional restoration even after the occupation is over, as well.
Bob
Jan 29, 2008
The link didn’t come through Glen.
His name is Dick and nobody likes him.
Poor bugger. But I guess he did do his part to bring this country down just like everybody else.
Hang ‘em high.
susan28
Jan 29, 2008
actually i think the organisation i mentioned is , not . it’s the one with people making the “impeach bush” signs with their bodies. (but they advocate going after cheney first).
Duane
Jan 29, 2008
Type in
GlenGary
Jan 29, 2008
susan28 Bob
The very first time I ever saw Dick and that was many many years ago he made my skin crawl. The link… we can try again is “Wexler Wants Hearings” with a Dot Com on the end. Just shove it all together if it is still there.
The occupation could be interesting. After 9-11 gun sales and for subsequent years, gun sales have been way up meaning more folks packing than ever before. I guess Walmart benefits most as their ammo is priced at about 40% off of most other sporting goods places. At least for 40 cal it is. Walmart, the neighborhood armory near you.
GG-Buy Silver-Buy Gold-Pass The Lead.
Please Don’t Steal.
The Government
Hates Competition!
Duane
Jan 30, 2008
I feel better now that the Fed lowered a 1/2 a point. I can now know that I will be able to retire and the next generation will be ok. What a releif.
Bob
Feb 04, 2008
Good one Duane. Like the song says, the morning sun is shining like a red rubber ball.
I was reading back over some of our stuff from last fall. What a bunch of prophets we are. Did you get your generator yet, Glen?
What “occupation” are you guys talking about? Did I miss something?
What the #*!@??? Over.(I heard that on the logging radio one time. Some government guys were using the channel and they were pretty diligent with their use of Rogers and Overs. It’s a pretty catchy expression when you feel puzzled.)
susan28
Feb 04, 2008
it was i who introduced the term “occupation” into the discussion and i was referring to Bush’s occupation of the White House and the government’s occupation of a country which was once the propertry of the people who lived here, and whose lives were once their own. i’m referring to America, though if ya wanna add Iraq to the list, go ahead. but as for our people i say let Iraq deal with the thugs occupying their land, we’ve got our hands full dealing with the (very same) thugs occupying ours..
Bob
Feb 05, 2008
Ohhh. I see. Thanks for the explanation. I was lost.
I was having lunch in the lunchroom of a mill a long time ago, involved in a heated discussion about taxes, regulations, laws, crimes and punishment, the injustice of it all and what should be done about the whole thing when one of the guys who felt left out, took a bite of his sandwich, waved the soggy mess in our direction and with his mouth full, joined in with “yah, the government sure is stupid!”.
What can I say? Our facts, details and ideas meant nothing in the face of such basic truth. In the war against big government waste and corruption, we didn’t accomplish any more than he did that day but we wasted a lot more effort and oxygen to do it. It humbled me.
I’m over it now but at the time I was humbled anyway.
GlenGary
Feb 05, 2008
Three ways to solve this thing; The Ballot Box, The Jury Box and The Cartridge Box and for many many years the first two ways have been of little use.
I wish literally every single adult in America would rush out and buy a gun and some ammo. This might finally send the message to Washington that Americans are all FED THE HELL UP!
Bush was not a divider after all. He has polarized citizen hatred of anything Federal and what comes next I have no clue. But folks are angry and some livid.
GG
Please Don’t Steal.
The Government
Hates Competition!
susan28
Feb 05, 2008
it’s true Gary.. unfortumnately he’s probably done more to galvanise liberals than anything else, but he was so extreme he woke a few conservatives as well. and he and his conservative base who elected him are gonna have some serious egg on their face when they start using FDR-style “stimulus” measures (already are) to keep people from rioting as the economy crashes. their more-visible interference in the crisis period is just gonna show who’s been orchestrating it all along and that too will backfire.
but yeah, if we could organise a national gun-buy day where everyone went out and bought at least one gun, that would be hilarious! it would be extra-fun if everyone bought multiples, though, that’s alotta “courtesy calls” for the ATF to make
GlenGary
Feb 05, 2008
Lynn M. Stuter in News With Views wrote today;
“The great awakening of the American people is in progress. It will not be stopped by other than force of action and the letting of blood. The American people intend to take back their country, return to their constitution, and reclaim American sovereignty. May God Bless the Ron Paul revolution! May God Bless American patriots!”
So well said. My Ron Paul new batch of signs-shirts-stickers came today by Fedx. Funny how those stickers get a thumbs up horn yet the media still insists he is nobody and by proxy WE ARE NOBODY.
GG
Don
Feb 06, 2008
How soon we forget, how we felt that morning, that we were attacked on 9-11; And how we rallied around our president, when he declared war, against an enemy that had been attacking us for years, but had finally crossed the line. And how close we were, to a total collapse of our economy, but the steady hand of our president, kept everything moving, and in no time, things were back to normal.
I remember talking to a friend, a few years later, as he gripped about the new Wal-Mart, that had recently moved in to our community, and reminded him, that if Al Gore had won the presidency in 2000, that this Wal-Mart, would have never been built, because most likely we would have still been under martial law, from 9-11.
Now I have never met George Bush; and although I disagree with him on the free trade agreements that he has signed and his position on immigration and all those things, that are bringing us to a one world government, etc. It sure looks to me, that he has been doing the best job that he can. A few years ago, some idiot, came up with a cool sounding slogan, “Bush lied and people died”, and every rebellious person in the country, started repeating it, and all of a sudden it’s true. Just because everybody is saying something, doesn’t make it true.
The real problem with our country is greed: I remember back in 1963, when Jed Clampett, was hunting, and discovered oil on his land. In no time, he was a millionaire, and in a few short years, he had $80,000.000.00 in the bank. Back then, his oil sold for about $15.00 a barrel, and today, it is over $90.00 a barrel, for the exact same stuff(black gold indeed). It is just plain greed, that is causing all the trouble, and there is plenty of blame to go around.
I know, that most of you will disagree with me about this, and that’s okey. I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I do know that the Bible says, that it is wrong to openly criticize our leaders. And therefore, whoever is elected president in November, I am going to be praying for them. Although I own a few shotguns, rifles and pistols; I would never take up arms against my government; The Bible says that this “one world stuff”, is going to come to pass, and there isn’t anything that anyone can do about it. Oh, by the way, my firearms, are reserved the true thugs.(Exodus 22:2).
One more thing; It is wise to consider, what’s gong to happen to us, when this life is over. You(we), will have to stand before a Holy God and explain why, we didn’t believe the Bible and trust in Jesus, for our salvation(Revelation 20:15)!
susan28
Feb 06, 2008
i remember 911 like it was freakin’ *yesterday* .. i was having my morning joe with Katie Couric as usual when they cut to tower 1 burning, then the second plane hit and i knew it was a terrorist act, and the first word to tumble from my lips was “BUUUUUSHHHHHH!!!”, then, “that BASTARD!! he’s behind this, i just KNOW it..” and as my roommate looked at me like i was nuts i said, “don’t believe me? he’s gonna use this to gut the 4th Amendment, and we’ll be in Iraq by summer..”
again, i got the incredulous look.. til on that same show was announced the USA TREASON… i mean PATRIOT ACT.. (she looks at me with jaw on floor as i just shook my head), and then shortly thereafter the news of the invasion.. (she looks at me again like i was psychic or something, but i wasn’t psychic, i was simply PAYING ATTENTION)..
jeez Don you bangin’ James Woolsey or sumthin’? .. all i can say is i’m glad our founders didn’t have your attitude or we’d still be subjects of the crown instead of citizens of a once-free country.. ALL power flows from the barrel of a gun, my dear.. which way it flows is entirely up to you..
Bob
Feb 06, 2008
Good one Don. I personally think this went beyond the ability of any President to fix at least 25 years ago and it’s just been a game of trying to keep things going for as long as possible since then. I do agree that things would have gotten worse quicker if Al Gore had become President but what’s the difference, really.
I’ve come to feel a little embarrassment for George Bush in recent years because I think he is a little naive when it comes to recognizing the situation that we are facing and maybe (like you say) he could have done a few things differently, but he is President and like you, I think the office should be respected. I don’t want his job and to be honest, I question the motives and/or intelligence of anyone who does in today’s environment.
Unlike you, however, I will take up arms against anybody who threatens my life, family or independence. I hope it won’t be our own government but the way things are going, it very well could be.
God and I understand each other. I know who I am and what I’ve done. I’m not proud of some of my actions so far but I’ve done some good things too and he can judge me accordingly when the time comes. There isn’t a day goes by that I don’t try to do better and that’s all I can do. If that’s not good enough and I don’t make the cut, I won’t whine about it. It’s been a slice and I appreciate the fact that he put me in the game in the first place.
GlenGary
Feb 06, 2008
Don,
On the day the Towers fell I was at work when a vet my age asked me who I thought did this thing and I said; “Don’t hit me, but we did it. NORAD stands down, two pin-point perfect implosions… my imagination won’t stretch that far.”
The guy agreed with me and knew my answer before he asked it. We did it and there is no way on God’s Green Earth I will believe anything else!
When Bush called for war against Iraq I wrote at least a dozen editorial letters to papers saying his intelligence was COOKED because I knew the real reason Bush wanted war with Iraq which is the same damned reason he wants war with Iran.
In 2000 and you may check it, Iraq went to gold and Euros for oil shunning the dollar just as Iran has done today which threatens the dollar as the World’s Reserve Currency which would kill the debt laden dollar internationally. Game Point for the little guys and game over!
I never backed that Murdering Psychopathic Alcoholic Sociopath who hears God telling him to start wars and slaughter people. God wouldn’t do that! That’s the other guy Don. I told my wife the day Iraq started it was over for America because the hatred it would stir and debts it would cause would bury us all. God blesses righteous endeavors…. What happened here? This all one big blessing is it?
I am not blinded by political speeches that cover over the reality of rotting flesh on a battlefield of children torn limb from limb so idiots can sit in arm chairs watching CNN or FOX with a beer screaming GO GET’EM like it was football. That is sick. And even more sick is war for pure profit which is what Iraq is and was.
Not all of us were affected by the disease called blind hatred and startled fear. Our enemies are not the one’s you see. Our enemies are stupidity, fear, greed, unchecked violence and not realizing that God is love and not theft, violence or war for profit.
Haven’t we treated our veterans and their families nice? No! They get what’s left over at the bottom of the barrel Washington feeds from.
We have an ass cleaning coming and it is because we asked for it.
GlenGary
PS-Lay off the bottle and think hard.
Bob
Feb 06, 2008
See, I’ve screwed up again. Didn’t us capitals on the He’s in my last paragraph. That’s one more strike against me. Stupid little things like that really add up. Dammit.
Bob
Feb 06, 2008
Geeeze Glen. You and Susan are full of dark energy.
We’ve been on a train with no brakes and picking up speed since the end of WWII. When Reagan got in, we were only going about 65mph. I think he knew. He could have told everybody and organized a mass jump-off into the snow. At that speed, probably better than half of us and the country would have survived. Instead, he brought out the booze cart and started a party. Didn’t want anybody to get hurt. Bush(the father) went to the back of the car for more booze, Clinton threw some more coal in the boiler to get some more heat in the driver’s compartment so that his interns would wear a few less clothes and by the time Bush(the son) was elected we were going 120mph. He jumped up front and blew the whistle and pulled the knobs and levers and thought that it was the greatest ride he had ever had.
It’s pretty tough to point fingers now. We were partying it up with everybody else. Nobody was paying attention, everybody loved the free booze, anybody that spoke up was sent to the caboose and now we are going to crash. No one person did this, it’s been years in the making.
They took the brakes off the train when they created the Federal Reserve and did away with the gold standard. It’s that simple. Nobody objected because it made it easier to live beyond your means.
Come on man don’t you want to have any fun? It’s only a little free money. History would suggest that it will still probably happen again sometime. Don’s got the greedy part figured out.
susan28
Feb 07, 2008
heheheee, great analysis, Bob, it made me smile i must say, and lighten up for a moment, but no, as a matter of fact i *don’t* want fun right now- it’s not morally appropriate in times like these, not too much at least, we gotta keep smiling of course, but even if i did want fun, they don’t let you *have* any back in the caboose, where i’ve been all along.
back there, all they show is movies of Woodrow Wilson and JP Morgan rolling cigars with the Constitution, Dubya wiping his butt with it, DEA agents kicking in people’s doors for engaging in consensual commerce which could be *paying off the national debt overnight* instead of *cubing it yearly*, ATF folks chipping away ar the common defense, and Reagan – that utter *disdainer* of democracy – saying things like “if it takes a bloodbath, so be it!” regarding the “problem” of college protesters during his governorship, followed by the creation of a special police unit to violently suppress them (which was the model of modern “crowd control” and the forerunner of “Operation Garden Plot”, coming to your picket-fenced backyard soon) and the (quite predictable and *totally* in-character) ending forever of the true purpose of the 2A (citizen parity with government) by banning automatic weapons and AP ammo – you know, the kind tyrants use against those who can’t fight back.
Reagan also appointed over 200 members of the CFR and TC to key government positions after *explicitly* promising he wouldn’t. he was partying alright, but not with the rest of us.. he was in the passenger seat of the engine car, with the usual suspects driving.
the whole notion that we need to be “spared the truth” is the very sort of condescending, *communist* nonsense that animates the “father knows best” mentality that enables things like social normative laws (“Republican socialism”), and ultimately leads to crap like central banking, and i have neither pity nor forgiveness for *anyone* who’s not a part of the dismantling of it. they’re accessories after the fact. you’re talking about people who put people in cages and attack our own cities just to “send messages” that make us easier to manage.
so have some more champagne, i’ll be on point back in the caboose (mama had me back there, it was kinda a rough delivery, but it toughened me up for the ride..)
you do know, don’t you Bob, that the Republican Party has been a Communist front since its inception, right? google “the Forty Eighters” if you’ve any doubts. not that the Dems are any better, but they used to be. and once we were *all* (yep yer right about that) drunk on centralised power, the first thing we did was disarm ourselves, then *restrict* the ways in which we “allowed” (as if such words should even *exist* in free Republics) each other to have fun – and with the very same (typical Red) sleazy, backdoor, unconstitutional method: making society over in the image of its “moral leaders” via “regulation of commerce” .. how very, VERY.. Red.. and we’ve been a “Red State” ever since..
are we having fun yet?
susan28
Feb 07, 2008
Don: couple quickies if i may:
first, how do you feel about Pope John Paul II’s fomenting of the Polish revolution that was the first – and *very* hard-won – nail in the coffin of the Soviet Union? do you feel he was sinning by opposing the ruling junta, simply because they *were* the ruling junta? do you think God intended those people to suffer under the yoke of communism, and for them to challenge it was to reject God’s “gift” of “character-building” tribulation?
secondly: if you were alive in Herod’s time and his own – Divinely-annointed by your reckoning – legally-deputised thugs, would you have dutifully handed over your first-born son for execution, thinking that was just God’s Will? or would they have to take him over your dead body?
and what if our own government came to confiscate the weapons that you yourself stated you would only use againt civilian thugs, and having the audacity to suggest to you that *their* safety – that of our *public servants* – was more important than the lives of those they (aupposedly) serve?
you better suss that out now, because we’re due to officially sign away our national sovreignty during this next Presidential term, and the UN non-proliferation language mandates the confiscation of *all* guns in every country in its jurisdiction, which will be us on or before 2012 if all goes according to schedule.
you know, i think that Romans passage you’re operating on (which FEMA is actually *instructing* ministers nationwide to begin preaching to their congregations in preparation for martial law.. did you hear it in church recently?) is an after-the-fact misinterpretation of Christ’s admonishment to “render unto Ceasar what is Caesar’s”, but that was referring to currency, which was as worthless in Imperial Rome as it is in Imperial Babylon (that’d be us).
Romans was written *way* after the fact, Don, and was not the word of Christ. you are correct, though, that Christ told us not to involve ourselves in the affairs of this world, especially politics, but i think to say that all earthly governments are instituted by God is a bit of a stretch, even for Paul. remember Paul was a human, and full of fear like the rest of us, and subject to lapses of judgment. the notion that the entiure Bible was God-breathed was floated by those who compiled it – again, way after the fact. and remember, Christ *trashed his own Temple* when it became obvious that it had been corrupted by money-changers, which to me is the most compelling Biblical precedent of all for the Ron Paul Revolution and similar movements.
if you really believe that unconditional submission to any and all government is the right thing to do, then don’t let me sway you, but as an (ex) Bible scholar myself, if the Bible is your compass of choice, i’d advise you to take your counsel from within, not from some FEMA-indoctrinated harbinger of the Antichrist. it’s not a sin to use your reason. that’s Vatican stuff..
GlenGary
Feb 07, 2008
Metal is freedom. Paper is slavery. The Bible says gold and silver are Money. Doesn’t mention paper as such.
No one forced anyone into this corner. They did it because they wanted to.
GG
Bob
Feb 07, 2008
It would have been papyrus money back then, and you’re right, they don’t say too much about it in the Bible.
susan28
Feb 07, 2008
right you are GG! and they intentionally crashed the economy (and a few other things) to get us to accept *them* as our saviours, instead of that other guy..
you know, i hate to say it, but i’m kinda coming over to Bob’s way of thinking: just kick back and enjoy the fireworks. something inside me actually *enjoys* seeing stupid people squrim on their own hook..
so yeah, let’s kick back and watch the “pious” who instituted Republican Socialism in the name of their pristine “morality” and “national identity” reap the fruits of their hypocrisy in consolidating power into the hands of Pharissees who ruthlessly rip the splinters from our eyes while ignoring the planks in their own, and strain at gnats while swallowing camels.. and nations. it couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch.. yes, this is going to be *fun* ..
GlenGary
Feb 07, 2008
All this thinking makes my head hurt. I need to stop thinking.
Don
Feb 07, 2008
My Response
1st to Bob; This was a GREAT analogy about the train, and all I ask, is that our Government keeps passing out the soft drinks, and keeps us on the track and from crashing, for another fifty years or so(while I am here); But just in case they can’t, I will be preparing for my wife and I to jump off. Also, It’s nice that you are trying to do the best you can: But according to the Bible, the best that we can do, will never be enough(This is why Jesus came). None of us can ever be good enough for heaven; I don’t deserve to go to heaven myself, but I will, because of Jesus’ Righteousness!
Now for susan28; I have often wondered what I would have done, if I had lived in this country, 230 years ago. Certainly a lot of Christians fought in the revolutionary war, and who knows I may have been right there with them. As for what the Bible says about it; The Bible makes it clear both in the Old Testament and the New Testament, that God gave man government, for the express purpose of “Protecting the innocent” and “Punishing the guilty”. Therefore, this is what makes a government Biblically legitimate! Taking guns, from law abiding citizens(in light of the 2nd amendment), doesn’t seem to me, to be “Protecting the innocent”, but we will have to see. But so many of us are armed, it would be another civil war, if they ever tried. And finally, on weather the Bible has been kept pure, through all the times it has been copied; You have to ask yourself, “Is God, really God”? If He is, than He would certainly have had the power, to keep His Word pure, no matter what. AND HE HAS KEPT HIS WORD PURE! Oh by the way, FEMA has never contacted me, about preaching anything.
And finally GlenGary; You are right, paper money hasn’t been around that long, but for people in my financial bracket, the future common currency is most likely going to be, 22. rounds. (3 long rifles or 1 Stinger, for a cup of flower; etc.) And by the way, “I stay away from the bottle”, because it is important to think, especially when it makes our head hurt.
susan28
Feb 07, 2008
thanks for the repsonse, Don. very well-considered. you made me a lil nervous at first with a comment that seemed quoted almost verbatim from an interview with a preacher who blew the whistle on the FEMA thing, hence my flippancy. sorry for that. i know, i know, courtesy means never haivng to say you’re sorry.. i’m working on it..
Pastor S.R. Scherer, of whom i’m a fan, agrees with you on the inevitability of things, and likewise spends his time preaching not fighting it but witnessing it and illuminating people to what’s going on from a Biblical perspective, you might wanna give him a read, google Antipas Ministries if interested. he pretty much lays this whole economic situation bare, both Biblically and politically. literally thousands of articles on the site. even if you don’t agree with everything, you’ll learn tons..
GlenGary
Feb 07, 2008
Don,
Haven’t had a drink myself since January 27 1988. My head hurts when I do too many figures and reconcile too much info so today I simply restrung my wires to keep the gooks out of the perimeter so I don’t have to go BANG BANG at 3 am and wake the neighbors. The gooks got through the other night and it took a few shots to drive them out. Good practice I guess. The freezer being full there is no sense in killing them.
After that I did a plumbing chore I’d been putting off for weeks on end and took a long walk to watch the river over it’s banks and near topping a nearby town levee. By then I’d forgotten that head thing. When facts, figures and stuff piles on my head, I head out to do manual work or go hike as both clears my simple head.
Tonight I shall plunder and savage the wife as she was dressed to kill this morning for going to an investment seminar to get a free steak with her gal pal. Seeing her like that is like animal time. Rip tear chew! I may even shave for a change… maybe even shower although I do love smelling like a barbarian and looking like a homeless wino. It’s just so me. Muu Ha Ha Ha Ha Haaaaa!
GG
My wife calls me a pervert,,,,
Then smiles from ear to ear.
Please Don’t Be Sick
I Really Hate Competition!
Bob
Feb 07, 2008
The inevitability of things. Wooooah. Now that’s what I’m talkin’ about.
Rock on gypsy soul, I wish I didn’t know know what I didn’t know then, I am the walrus, goo goo ga joob. This site is blowing my mind.
It is what it is, we are what we are. You can make it a little better, you can make it a little worse but when you’re gone it will be the same.
My head is hurting too.
Go for it Glen, you lucky dog!
Duane
Feb 08, 2008
GG
What in the fruck is a, “gook”. I had gooks in my day but thought I left them all in Viet Nam.
I think it should be manitory that each member of Congress has a sibling that is eligible to put into the war. I think if each had a, “vested interest, ” decisions might be made with some consideration.
I can’t wait until Bush is out of office. He has attempted to push the concept of Democracy on to another country – like our values are the only ones and we are god. He has killed our troops by sending them over to ring our democracy bell – sad – we should never have been over there. The money and resources that we are using could well be used here at home. He wraps the whole thing up in a, “fighting terrorist,” wrapper. Life sucks.
GlenGary
Feb 08, 2008
Bob,
After watching Lost last night I sat up until 11;30 PM to teach two women I barely know that are single (so I play the wise Daddy role here trying not to think “Nice Racks!”) how to buy physical silver.. the in’s the out’s the best place for low commissions, the expectations the whole thing. One of them smelled real good and I had to tell Woody several times to just think other thoughts. He’s so aggressive the naughty boy.
Anyway, at 11:45 the wife died peacefully after the peck on the cheek and the lying words that pass my lips when I see that my plans have just got to change; “Oh, I don’t mind, doesn’t matter, there will be another time… get your rest Dear. I love you.” As my head is going to mush and I’m sobbing inside like somebody tore my Elmo to shreds to be mean. Life Comes At You Fast! Get Over It!
To top it all off I hit the sack and wake up bolt alert at 3:30 am after having the MOST livid sex dream I’ve ever had since I was in my 20′s I’ll bet and the star was the 30 something redhead my wife dragged home. She was fantastic! In real life she is probably a gomer,,, but dreams are the mother of play time.
I asked my wife this morning if I could adopt the Redhead and she said; in a rather terse tone, “When I get home you will forget all about her” as she handed me $40 for my labor to fix her brakes Sunday night. Yea, she knows me. Money and sex, T&A and I AM that easy. I saw it as $40 for sex services since this is Friday and I did those brakes Sunday….she think I’m stupid? I am, really…. I admit it. Why change now?
I agreed in principal in 2002 to role reversal. As the dutiful bearded wife I take care of everything home related, cook, market, fix and she hands me an allowance as a pat on the head and a reminder that I am her property.
I do what I’m told in between doing what I please. A tug of war. It’s so sad to admit to total domestication of the once proud beast. Man my collar itches today.
GG
susan28
Feb 08, 2008
ah GG you *are* a lucky dog! i spent years wandering the internet and other such unseemly climes for just such an arrangement, but the collar was always too loose or too tight.. kinda like government.. (was wondering how i was gonna put the kink over as topical, lol
ok it’s stretch but we *are* having fun now, finally 
i think the lawyer that visited Hurley in the ‘bin is the smoke monster, watch his exit in slow-mo, i have YouTube of it.. yeah, lawyers.. corporate ones.. that work for airlines like Oceanic.. which Reagan de-regulated.. along with the airwaves and mainstream media.. which subsequently got turned into the personal propaganda machine of the globalist shills who are collapsing the economy..
wow it’s true, everything really *is* connected to within 5 degress of separation!! we’re livin’ LOST, babies!
GlenGary
Feb 08, 2008
Duane,
Every winter I string 200 pound test clear fishing line around the trees on my property… gooks can’t see it, hit it, scares the liver out of them and they go to feed on a neighbors evergreens and bushes. Unless sunlight hits it just right it is invisable to even you or I. A few branches came down last weekend and wiped out maybe a swath 400 ft by 250 ft.
I call the deer the gooks. Better than you filthy muth’a fu…ers. More polite.
I dare say if someone tried to walk my property at night they’d cry of frustration from hitting high and low wire staggered all over the place. Like a pinball machine and 200 pound test does not break easily.
Now we have bears here and there too. Nice thing is they scare extremely easy. They hate dogs..mistrust. A loud hand clap and they run… unless there is a cub and then you’re dead. Game Point! War Over! You’re mauled.
We could call deer zips I guess.
As for the Shrub…. He talks to the Devil and the Devil told him there was big money in starting wars and the youngsters that fight it are of no consequence to those of his feeding class. Just chess pieces to him. He has shown no regard for anyone but himself… his handlers tell him what appropriate responses are expected by the public for he has no clue. Katrina proved that. He’s a sociopath.
He’s like “I am King You Are Dirt! Now go away.”
GG
Please Don’t KILL.
The Government
Hates Competition!
Anonymous
Feb 08, 2008
GG
Like your 200 pound test fish line. How often do you have to replace it – seems like it should last for years. Good start for trip wires that start the momentum of a pendulum of sharpened re-rod like spikes.
Gook = deer – that’s cool. Some people shoot gooks. I blew a few up in my day in Nam. Poured on some white phosperous shells from 5″ 38 cannons. Once it splatters on their body it will burn almost completely through the enterance area. Never ate a Nam gook but had my share of USA gooks.
The market is going crazy. They say that reccession is dead because recession has took it’s place. “Full speed ahead!”
Duane
Feb 08, 2008
Whoops – correction
“They say that reccession is dead because recession
has took it’s place.”
ment to say
“They say that inflation is dead because recession
has took it’s place.”
Bob
Feb 08, 2008
By Jesus it is Friday, Glen! Beer time! Had a good week. Bring on the collapse, I’ll punch it in the head! Life is good. Your wife sounds hot, man! So does Susan. And Duane was in Viet Nam…..I like you people. Don, Niel, the hippie guy and the rest, eccentrics every one. My kind of crowd!
Michael is going to rain on this parade one of these days. I wish he would join in.
Michael Hampton
Feb 08, 2008
I’ve had my say already.
GlenGary
Feb 08, 2008
susan;
Dick Cheney is the smoke monster and Homeland Security went bad and runs the island. The other islands hold all the folks from the 9-11 planes that didn’t die in 9-11 attacks. Ben is Dick Cheney’s and Rumsfelds love child. Evil little bastard.
The black guy is a long dead slave from that slave ship on the island-a voodo witch doctor who figures he owns the souls of the Oceanic crash survivors and must retrieve them to the island.
And my wife says Sawyer is just HOT and Syi’d, well..he can have what’s left over.
Man…I feel so like Hurley right now. I mean… I aint so hard to take… I’m 6′ 3, have my hair, I’m 215… yea, nearing 55 but but… everything still works. Guess I’ll go look at some porn. When reality cheats you, fantasy is of great comfort.
GG
GlenGary
Feb 09, 2008
Bob/Duane,Susan,Mikie,
Friends Romans Emperors.. I stand before you and not behind you, I come to speak to you and not to spit on you, I come to address you and not undress you.
This is one of the high spots of my day. Interesting and fun…keeps one always thinking and yea we is all a little strange because we actually “think” for ourselves unlike a lot of folks I meet who go mainstream media gibberish like programmed androids on some psycho hallucinogenic drug–sort of like The Stepford Wives. Man they p_ss me off.
As for the wife and my slavery… Every home has a Boss. In my home, I’m not it and I’m P-whipped and if I must be whipped by something then beat me senseless with that! Bring it on! Kill me with it! What a way to go! Beats dyng old lonely sitting in a corner slobbering and wetting myself thinking Oh death where is thy sting oh pleae come to me. I remain true to myself. I put women on a pedestal…where they belong, so I can look up their dress. I lead her to think my ideas were her original ideas and then comply. Works pretty cool.
Shifting gears……..
As for the markets Duane, inflation is about 17% if you count in heating, eating, driving and medical care. The Gov does not count heating, eating, driving so if you don’t do those things then there is 3% inflation. Goes to figures lie and liars figure. Oil touches everything we all need except sex. Unless petroleum jelly counts.
Look at milk, butter, cottage cheese, any cheese, eggs, beef, chicken, canned goods, toilet paper and paper towels, laundry soaps, cereals, produce… 3% my butt. Look at gasoline, diesel at $3.30.. heating oil, natural gas, electric, 3% my ass! Grain goods are up near 75% in two years! In 2003 for example, bananas were 19 to 25 cents a pound. Around here now they are 49 to 69 a pound. Good old fiat money. But silver is over $17 now so it outran this thing.
The wire
The wire man, the wire lasts a long time unless a tree goes Ka Klunk! or a big branch like the 150 pounder we had last weekend does a cannon ball on it. It makes great trip wires and can be easily concealed. I have several spools saved up along with a few buckets of old broken glass and rusty metal shards for some idiot to fall on. Think OH OUCH! Bleed baby bleed! No Docs to stitch out here. (Grin) Tetnus? Oh Well.
I’m an evil fu…
Michael Hampton;
But we don’t know the real Michael… really. Do you favor grenades or improvised munitions? An AK or a vintage M-1? A 12 ga or a semi-auto 30-06? 30-30? 9mm? Cross bow? Spear? Battle Ax? Mace with a rusty chain? Lance? Sword? Long knife? Ice pick? Chainsaw? Throwing stars? Baaaaazooooka? Inquiring minds want to know!
MRE’s, ration bars, beef jerky or conventional survival food? Redheads, Blondes, Brunettes? Bubble buns.. Beer wine or spirits? Tea or coffee? Green or Black? Decaf or High Test? Coke or Pepsi? Diet or sugared? Got milk?
GG
Bob
Feb 14, 2008
GM lost 38 billion dollars and their share price went up. What’s up with that? It wasn’t as bad as expected so that was a good thing, they say.
There is a line in “The Outlaw Josey Wales” that I’ve been thinking about a lot lately.
Fletcher says “Senator, don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s rainin’.”
It’s crazy man. People are nuts.
susan28
Feb 14, 2008
and now it turns out Judge Judy is a plagarist? well that just killed last vestige of faith i had in the government
who am i kidding i lost that with my first brush with politics. i was a goodie-goodie and got nominiated for 3rd grade class president. the duty of president was solely to write names on the board of anyone who talked when the teacher left the room. the nominations went by GPA and my competitor was the biggest troublemaker in the class, abbeit a smart one.
so he gets elected by a landslide cuz *everyone in south philadelphia* was a troublemaker but me, and wanted one of their own in office. so from then on anytime the teacher left the room, everyone talked but me, and i was the only name on the board. i told teacher i thought i should be president because i would enforce the law fairly, but she said, “that’s democracy, and the people have spoken”.
the lesson? the lunatics always have, are now, and always *will* run the asylum, not inspite of the people, but *because* of them.. they is us, kiddies.. they is us..
lesson 2 (took a little longer to learn this one), you can’t fight the mob on their turf..
i actually can kinda see the GM thing, though. i can see where it could be spun as “resillience” if they did better in a bad situation than expected. there could be some hope there, sort of. because if they’re tanking, others probably are too, so the one who tanks less is doing “better”, market values being the relative things they are.
i just hope people don’t invest too massively based on this (prolly no danger of that), cuz the one hitch to the market is for a lone while now it’s driven more by perception than reality. and that’s what bubbles are made of. but if GM can get a little cash infusion form this without people making inflated investments that can never pay off, then cool.
GlenGary
Feb 14, 2008
Bob,
The GM plan to buyout 74,000 workers and replace them with folks getting paid crap wages and probably about zip benefits was I think what shot the stock up. Any time a company slashes jobs, wages, benefits… any combination there of shareholders smell money.
Now, for every good job lost, three other jobs are lost as in the butcher, the baker the candlestick maker. American companies keep thining jobs and then wonder why sales thin too…. Like DUH! Fewer good jobs mean fewer other jobs which mean fewer sales. No one in the markets gets that. They are stupid and when those stocks fall I hope they get cleaned out. Greed deserves payment.
Oh by the way, out West oil was discovered… can’t say by who… not allowed. But it is a bigger strike than in all of Saudi Arabia-EVER. Huge! Good news for America once it can come on line…. might need a new refinery or two. Probably three to five years out from it saving our bacon in a meaningful way as in reduce prices.
This will destroy OPEC.
GG
susan28
Feb 14, 2008
GRRRR.. SCREW GM then.. i should’ve known.. dang they gonna rip the Nihiism badge right offa my Girl Scout uni with all that benefit-of-the-doubt stuff i was spoutin’ ..
i wouldn’t count on this destroying OPEC tho.. we’re IN OPEC, for all practical purposes. we’re in Iraq because Saddam threatened OPEC.. well that and the Euro thing.. hmmmmm, maybe this will give the sociopaths the excuse to lock down California like they’ve always wanted.. delegates? we don’t need no stinking delegates! this is UNOCAL!!
susan28
Feb 14, 2008
you know, thinking about all this “thinning”, i don’t even think the thinning is about profits at bottom. because as you say more employees also means more customers not just for them but for everyone. butcher baker candlestickmaker all buy cars flowing from the business of those employees. the economy thrives from growth, not austerity.
i think we’re experiencing a stint of humanity collectively thinning out the herd. this isn’t economic, it’s genetic. we’re trimming the fat. less customers, but more efficiency. less overhead, less hassle overall. there’s a certain value in simplicity beyond mere money. it’s a quality-of-life thing for them: less ugly plebes to pass on the street. they all be dead, just the way we want ‘em.. this is all about getting the “excess people” to kill themselves.. they’re just sick of looking at us.
GlenGary
Feb 14, 2008
Any thought that business and government can do literally anything without unintended consequences should be put aside. Folks don’t generally just die on cue or starve by command. First there is panic, then a sort of adjustment to what is. Then there is planning and action. That’s when things get messy and out of control. Look at Iraq if you think not. Now… what happens when even 1/300th of our population goes Iraqi on us?
What happens if these guys start the ball rolling?
American Patriot Network
Alabama Constitutional Militia
14th division Kentucky State Militia
7th Missouri Militia
508th Regiment (Airborne) Militia
42nd/58th/59th Brigades Missouri Militia
Beaver County Militia
Col. Ian RoeBuck’s S.C. Civilian Militia Information Center
California Militia
Central Michigan Regional Militia. 15th Brigade: Kent county
Central Ohio Unorganized Militia
Danville Emergency Militia
Delaware Constitutional Militia
E Pluribus Unum – Ohio Unorganized Militia
Georgia Constitutional Militia
Hudson Highlands Free Militia
Illinois Constitutional Militia
Indiana Citizens Volunteer Militia
Iowa Unorganized Militia
Louisiana Unorganized Militia
Maine Constitutional Militia
Michigan Militia Corps “Wolverines” Isabella County 10th Brigade
Michigan Militia of Wayne County Marietta Pennsylvania Militia
Massachusetts Constitutional Militia
Militia of Montana
Minnesota Minuteman Militia
Minnesota Minuteman Militia, 3rd brigade
Minnesota Minuteman Militia, 5th brigade
Minnesota Minuteman Militia, Region 4
Militia of North Dakota
Mississippi Constitutional Militia
New Hampshire Constitutional Militia
New Jersey Militia
New Mexico cititizens’ regulated militia
New Mexico Militia
North Carolina Citizen Militia
North Mississippi Militia
Northern Virginia Citizens Defense League
Ohio Minuteman
Pack 44 Militia
Patriots Alliance
Patriots of Washington State
Police against the New World Order
Pomona Valley Militia
Second American Revolutionary Army
Sons of liberty militia
South Carolina Militia Corps
South Dakota Unorganized Militia
South East Texas Defense Force
Southeastern Ohio Defense Force
Southeastern States Alliance Militia Headquarters
State Medical Command: California State Militia
Texas Constitutional Militia
Texas Guardians
Texas Shock Front Elite
Viking Phoenix Group
Viper Militia
Virginia Citizen’s Militia
Washington County (Maine) Constitutional Militia
GG
Please Don’t Steal.
The Government
GlenGary
Feb 14, 2008
I forgot The Appleseed Project. Very active Nationwide.
Bob
Feb 15, 2008
Negative waves, man.
susan28
Feb 15, 2008
so if the truth is negative, do you think people should refrain frm talling it? the discomfort that comes from hearing negative realities is what motivates people to *act*. i’m just a keen observer with a talent for pattern recognition, nothing more. i’d LOVE to be wrong. but i’m not. my opinion is gleaned from their own writings over the years. this isn’t a Bush problem, it’s an attitude problem that drives everything they do. they want the weak to die. they are Nietzscheans and Macchiavellians, flat-out. don’t shoot the messenger!
if you were in the throngs in “the emperor has no clothes”, and overheard the emperor expressing these sentiments of contempt for his people, would you move thru the crowd hipping them to the danger, and say to the emperor (i refuse to even capitalise that loathesome word), “i’ll see your head on a pike you sadistic tyrant!! and put some dang CLOTHES on fer Chrissakes!!”, or would you say, “my what a lovely outfit you’re wearing on this fine, sunny day, Sire!!”.
Bob
Feb 15, 2008
GM is losing money because they produce a crappy product that costs too much. You can spin that any way you want. They can lay off whoever they want but if they don’t start producing quality with the cheaper labor that they hire afterwards, they’re going down the tubes.
Nobody looks at a company’s product anymore. It’s all about numbers and shares and accounting wizards. People buy and sell shares in companies run by snake oil salesmen, that own paper assets and produce crap or don’t produce a thing, and then can’t figure out why it all collapses.
We’ve made economics and investment so complicated that we can’t grasp the simple concepts any more.
I remember the old days when putting a radio in your truck was optional but you could buy a new one for six or eight thousand bucks and it got you to work for ten years where you made enought to pay for it in one.
Now, when you sit behind the wheel of a new truck, you’re looking at and controlling enough electronic gizmos to go to the moon(most of which will break or malfunction before too long) and you don’t make enough in ten years to pay for it.
I’d buy a brand new ’74 Chev 4X4 over a 2008 Chevy any day and they could probably produce one of those old girls for about the same price as they cost back then too.
Bob
Feb 15, 2008
Dreamin’ about an old Chevy in the morning. See, that’s positive Susan, and I still see the truth.
GlenGary
Feb 15, 2008
I’ve had a lot of folks call me crazy about economics and my views on 9-11 only to later do the deeper research it takes to awaken and now they look deeper and deeper to the meaning behind such things. Many have taken action and bought metals, storage food, guns-ammo to give themselves a better chance should something happen. Everything I told them was negative. But an awakening is a positive.
Would it have been wise to say nothing and whistle a happy tune knowing I maybe could reduce needless suffering? Could I live with myself knowing I could’ve given a few more folks an edge?
You do what you can do. Here is something I wrote and was published in my local paper this morning. Is it a negative or a positive? Bad vibes or good vibes? Hope and faith or repression of hope and faith?
Comment on this story.
Reader’s Viewpoint:
Ron Paul is willing to uphold the Constitution, but he’s painted as a crackpot
To the Editor:
Americans are upset that so many good paying jobs left the country in no small part due to Clinton’s signing of NAFTA, and it don’t mean nothin’. A lot of folks want another Clinton?
Americans are angry that the United States spends more money on illegal immigrants than it spends in Iraq, and a vote for McCain, Obama or Clinton won’t change that. Yet most will pick one of those people, and I guess it don’t mean nothin’.
Speaking of Iraq, most Americans want our troops out of Iraq, but voting for any of the top three runners will not get us out of Iraq and that don’t mean nothin’, either.
Most of us sane folks think that the right to bear arms should never be infringed, yet as we review the three major candidates, none of them favors upholding that right and folks I guess that don’t mean nothin’.
The middle class is disappearing, the country now bankrupt, the federal government no longer listens to the people and that don’t mean nothin’.
Tyranny don’t mean nothin’.
We have one candidate who is willing to uphold the Constitution, repeal the Federal Reserve Act in favor of honest money, disengage America from policing the world, destroy repressive taxation, uphold the right to bear arms and he is painted as a crackpot. Dr. Ron Paul is a man with a spotless constitutional voting record for 30 years, and folks think that don’t mean nothin’.
After this election cycle, if the Constitution is not defended, there will be no republic and worse, no America. To most folks I guess that don’t mean nothin’.
GG
Give folks things to ponder Bob.
good or bad vibes.
susan28
Feb 15, 2008
true that, Bob.. one of the biggest regrets of my life was selling my old ’69 vette. baby 427, no a/c, no power steering, 4-speed rock crusher tranny w/ 4:11 posi (TALLLL gears with the torque to pull ‘em!) .. *sigh* they just don’t make ‘em like that anymore.. nor the fuel to run ‘em, that’s why i sold ‘er.. it just wasn’t the same without that Sunoco 260, and i got tired of buying octane boost faster than Pep Boys could stock it.. but for the measly 8 grand i got for ‘er, i’d pay that just to be able to go for a monthly spin in ‘er now.. i love my M3 but nothing will ever replace that good ‘ol American muscle..
susan28
Feb 15, 2008
nice piece GG.. its publishing will definitely open some eyes. good for the paper that ran it, too. gives me hope!
GlenGary
Feb 15, 2008
Bob,
I don’t quite agree about car quaility. I remember constant tuneups and starters going bad after two years, rust rust rust fenders started flapping in the wind after about four years with holes in them. I remember constant wheel alignments the toe-in always the toe-out because of defective parts and brakes not lasting half as long and those cars rattled after a few years too. Mufflers and tail pipes lasted maybe 3 years. Ignition wires cracked and let in water and distributor caps were a pain in the ass. Points were also a problem. Blue smoke at 100,000 miles common.
I have two eight year old cars. One has 95,000 miles on it and two brake jobs and one full hose and belt replacement deal, we change synthetic oil every 9,000 miles. Tranny fluid every 35,000. No rust at all. No problems. The 95,000 mile vehicle is a 4X4 AWD and has never had the old classic U-joint problems I had in my 78 Power Wagon three times in 80,000 miles. Nor the rust, ignition problems, radiator blowouts or the 8 to 10 mpg gas hog problems. That truck was trash at 80,000 miles rusted and mechanically unsound.
My other car, 2000 Mustang 26-27mpg is cherry and it sits outside always has. One brake job, one battery, hoses and belts tranny fluid and anti-freeze change. 58,000 miles no rust-beautiful car. In 69 I had a 67 Mustang-31,000 miles when bought, rusted, rattled, nearly everything ready to bust if you looked at it wrong. 8-9 mpg. Expensive to own. By today’s standards-beater.
Every car I had until around 1987 was expensive upkeep. My 94, 95′s, my 2000′s American are a dream to own. No problems. Just do reg stuff.
Fact is, most folks don’t do regular maint on cars and expect them to just go just because. Remember Ziebart? It’s US or Rust!
Don
Feb 15, 2008
GG
I agree, “most Americans do want our troops out of Iraq”, and the way they put it is, they say they want to “stop the war”. My question is, how exactly do you “stop” a war? Of course, you can pull all of our troops out of Iraq, but all that will do is bring the war closer to home. Right now, our military is killing untold numbers of suicide bombers and terrorist, and as a result of being on the front lines, many of them are being killed by roadside bombs etc. Every solder that I have ever heard interviewed(over there), says the same thing; “We are fighting to protect our homes and families.”
What Saddam Hussein did with his weapons of mass destruction(if he even had any), is of no importance. Just imagine, what would happen if there were one(1) suicide bombing or roadside bombing, over here; It would change our world dramatically. Now don’t get me wrong, I am not “pro-war”. You can have countless anti-war demonstrations, but you will never see one single pro-war demonstration, because nobody in their right mind, is pro-war. The fact is, when it comes to war, you either win, or lose or you surrender. Pulling out of Iraq, does not STOP “the war”, it is simply pulling back of the front lines, and giving our enemy some breathing room.
Oh, by the way, in Matthew 10:34, Jesus said, “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth”…. The Lord didn’t come to stop war(clean up a dirty pond). He came to save individuals (catch fish out of the pond). I was caught, so therefore, “this world is not my, I am just passing through.”
GlenGary
Feb 15, 2008
susan28
Thanks… And I have a 1987 Corvette, Marina Blue, 54,000 miles on it. All original. Sticker was 33K in 87. I paid 15K in 1992 from it’s first Dad. It had 21,000 miles on it. Had it chipped out and have a nitros unit I put in in 1993. Like a space ship it will slam you back into the driver’s seat laying rubber all the way from 45 mph up. Scary when you punch it in. Very quick car. It is my baaaby.
My wife’s gal pal said one day her husband would own such a car over her dead body. I told her, you were my wife I’d tell you last hired first fired. The car was here BEFORE the wife. Pack your bags. I know where I can get another woman, but I’m clueless where I could find another car just like this one. She about crapped.
While dating my wife she helped me pick it out. She had an IROC for a spare car. Like minds.
gg
GlenGary
Feb 15, 2008
Don,
There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and no terrorists operating there until we came along and drew them in as well as made terrorists out of Sunnis, Shia.. . We created a FRONT in another country and destroyed that country. Don’t forget the dead women, children! They terrorists too?
As for Saddam… did we stop Pol-Pot? Did we intervene in Africa and those massacres? Did we attack the USSR for their WMD or China? All mortal enemies China, Russia, even Cuba. All bad dudes running those countries. What does that Bible say about that?
Oh…you pick and choose your application of scripture according to your mental fears. Forgot.
Saddam was a bad dude. Certainly not the only bad Dude we supported materially as we gave him the means to terrorize his people just like we supported the Shah of Iran while he brutalized his people and gave Saddam the means and green light to kill 10′s of 1000′s of Iranians with US Chemical Weapons.
Where were you scriptures then?
So the terrorists will come here through our OPEN BORDERS that Bush never secured in SEVEN FRIGGING YEARS. Your Hero!
You are twisted my man. You see only what you want to see and read your scripture only one way. The Neocon way.
We CREATED Bin Laden during the Afghan-Soviet War. This stuff is blow back over our crap we have done. I wouldn’t be surprised if Bin Laen was not still on our payroll as a means to an end for Neocon Industrialists.
Stick the Bible until you can first apply it to yourself!
GG
Michael Hampton
Feb 15, 2008
Sarah, if you suddenly decide you don’t want your M3, just hand me the keys.
susan28
Feb 15, 2008
Don, let’s put it this way: if foreign troops were tromping all over American soil when our country had not attacked them, wouldn’t YOU be blowing them up?
want to go after the so-called “911 masterminds” and the countries they came from? start with Saudi Arabia and Egypt, our so-called “allies” there. or should i say the oil companies’ allies. or you could just bust the CIA, the largest terrorist organisation on the planet, who regularly engages in terrorist acts to “influence social and political events” – the very *definition* of terrorism. that might settle things down a bit. make them stop creating then *poking at* the world’s political beehives and replacing democratically-elected governments with dictators all in the name of “freedom”.
us going into Iraq like that has turned an entire population into soldiers against us, and only redeemed the ones who actually *would* have come here even had we not attacked them first (the jihadists, whom we created to “fight communism” in Afghanistan, as though it was our place to do so) in the eyes of the world and has sent terrorist recruitment thru the roof.
when will we learn that our “benevolent intervention” ALWAYS blows up in our faces and stop meddling in the affairs of sovreign nations? if they’re not free then let them throw off the shackles same way we did, and which sadly it appears we need to do again.
and furhtermore, though they now have sham “elections” like we do to “legitimise” our puppet rule, women in particular are *much* less free now. they used to be able to walk around unshrouded. no more. they used to teach in universities (unshrouded). no more. they could drive. no more. they fear to even leave their homes without a male in tow. it’s a fundamentalist ZOO there now, and Saddam was the only thing keeping that crap in check.
and why isn’t anyone sweating *us* having WMD’s? is it because we’re “good”? you believe that i gotta bridge to sell ya. our ruling elites (the only ones benefitting from 911 and Iraq besides the jihadists, who are *delighted* to have us there because it saves them planefare and who are laughing all the way to our national bankruptcy) are as ruthless – and Godless – as they come, despite their Bible-waving. if there’s one finger you *don’t* want on the button, it’s theirs. they’ve been a menace to the freedom *and* safety of the sovreign nations of the world – including ours – ever since we lost the Soviets as a check to their lust for world domination. since Russia collapesed the neocons have been off the leash and devouring everything in their path, including our beloved, embattled USA.
there’s one thing you’re correct about though, and that’s that when we leave, they’ll follow, bringing with them legions of folks who otherwise wouldn’t have viewed themselves as part of the struggle. but they’re coming anyway, and even sooner and more determined every additional day we stay there. at this point all we can do is damage control, beginning with leaving, then securing our borders and bracing for the blowback.
susan28
Feb 15, 2008
Michael, that M3 will have to be pried form my cold, dead hands
she’s a 98 – ya know, before they started puttin’ GPS trackers under the hood – but i’ll let ya tske ‘er for a spin if i can ever get myself up to NH to start shiftin’ in the free world 
susan28
Feb 15, 2008
GG you got a real keeper there!! the wife too!! so nice to see like minds layin’ rubber together
GlenGary
Feb 15, 2008
Don,
What a Hornet’s Nest!
I wonder how Americans would be viewed if instead of blockading Iraq from 1992 to 2002 we had made sure their people had food and ample medicine and in 1992 not left Saddam with the means to airstrike the Kurds? We won a war and left the victor armed. Why? That was ace boo-coo stupid. MISTAKE.
How would we be viewed if we fed Ethiopians and helped them to self-sufficiency instead of build just one Boomer? What if we had helped the Sudanese instead of build a missile cruiser? What about Rwanda? Could we have stopped the massacres? Millions upon millions have died in massacres in Africa or starved to death or lacking medicine have died. What if we had used humanitarian aide to stop that?
We have been a wealthy country surrounded by hunger, unfair wages, lack of health care, watching mayhem for decades and our money and military have added a load to it instead of unloading it. MISTAKE.
Doesn’t the Bible Christians thump talk of feeding the hunger, giving medicine, a fair day’s wages for a fair day’s work? What if we had done all these things and thusly made friends by our examples? Never know now will we?
The jaded truth is supported by the evidence of actions-our actions. Decades of our actions. Hunger doesn’t turn away food nor does thirst turn away drink, nor do the sick turn away from medicine when offered nor does the victim of brutality turn away a safe zone. Nor do those who are grateful bite at their saviors. ERROR-MISTAKE Don Unchristian.
We f’d over the Iraqis from 92 to 2002 their children’s blood on our hands and then wondered why no peace signs and daiseys as we marched in. Suspicious to them it was especially since we stayed too long. I’d try to kill a few too situation reversed. We took their normalcy, their jobs, thereby their food, homes and we did them what favor? Oh yea, took their oil at cut rate prices.
If the Bible teaches charity, does it say we are to give aid to everyone or aid to those in only resource rich countries? Well…..?
What if with blind eyes we set about and treated every emergency the same worldwide going back decades? How many enemies would we have? How much help would we have today? Would we even need help today?
You don’t give help thinking that there is something in it for YOU. You help because folks need help. End of Story. Do you take applications before you lend a hand Don? Do you qualify whether a drowning person deserves saved?
OH OH…A Muslim! Don’t save him! Is that your Bible Don? Are you reading the Bible to use as a thermo-nuke or as an aid to steer your life in humility?
Where there is life there is hope of new behavior, new thinking. What do we teach with food, medicine, water, shelter? What do we teach with bombs and blown apart lives and bodies, death? Is there hope in violence? Hope in death? Hope in misery? I think not.
All of these things are choices to the Glory of God or in service to Satan. Are you sure which side you are on?
You want to kill according to what MEN say. You thusly cannot love according to what God says. Men are more important to you than God? Bush lied. Condi lied. You get that stuff when your God is MAN and your instincts do not work from decades of disuse.
I can dig out some nasty stuff from the Bible too. But God is love. To me that’s it unless a man stands before me trying to kill me-my family. Who has tried to kill you lately Don? Who has stolen your food? Hurt your family? My guess is no one.
Oh but somebody could so you put a face on it and attack others? That’s twisted as our President is twisted. God is not twisted. Satan twists men. Be careful who you throw in with Don. Evil smells and the last few decades have stunk to high heaven.
And now we are stuck in that old circle of For What You Buy Is What You Own and What You Own Will Always Come Home To You! We planted seeds and the plants are about to choke us to death.
Withdraw, guard your borders tightly and protect. Fielding an Army abroad weakens us. We have not the money or manpower to continue.
This is lunacy. Loons loons loons loons! If God blesses righteous plans then why are we stuck in quicksand Don? Longer than WW2? Korea? DUH…
GG
GlenGary
Feb 15, 2008
Hi Susan,
A keeper. I married my best friend. Couldn’t go wrong. She new my lumps and bumps long before I ever asked her for a date. She was around two years as a Pal before a light clicked on in my stupid head and I thought…. “Is SHE the one? Did I miss something here?” Blonde, ice blue eyes–big boobs, great job and education and I missed that…. raised by older parents-old fashioned in lots of ways. I missed that… She was a Pal. Buddy. Sounding board. Thought I had NO CHANCE… as in bankrupt. As in currency not accepted here. Big brother… Fixer of problems… A few years later I asked her to marry me but added, You could do better… if you say no I’ll understand. She said no. My knees nearly collapsed.
I said; I understand. She said; no you don’t. Protocol says you ask my Dad first. He was 82. Old school. I asked him and he yelled; “What the hell are you asking me for? Ask her!” I nearly fainted from stress.
I asked her again. She said I need time to think. Give me 10 reasons. I said I’ll give you one… If you were a man I’d ask you the same thing. That’s how much I want you. She said that was way more than 10. So yes.
GG
susan28
Feb 15, 2008
GG: awwwwww shucks!! <3 you needed to post that yesterday
Bob
Feb 15, 2008
Go to work and you miss everything.
Talking about the problems with those old rigs brought a tear to my eye. Best times of my life. Where can I buy one?
Susan’s car talk brought up a sexy mental image of a hot, sweaty babe in shorts and a tank top smeared with grease and dirt(and a little spot on her nose)under the hood of her car just a wrenchin’ and a cussin’. That was enjoyable.
Your article Glen. Positive but it won’t change nothin’. People don’t like to be told that they’re wrong or stupid.
On that note……..hang in there Don. You’re not as wrong or stupid as they say you are. Glen gets carried away with his “poor peoples” and his “innocent womens and childrens”. We’re not the good guys anymore but we’re not the bad guys Glen and Susan make us out to be. We won’t see that until somebody else is running the show but it will be too late then. You’re right in saying that we are not here to save the world, just experience it and try to keep our own souls intact. It’s a lot easier when you look at it that way because there is nothing you can do to permanently change anything. Trying will drive you nuts.
If there are no innocent Americans then there are no innocent anybodies. We have poor Indians and poor African Americans but I’ve never heard anybody use the phrase “innocent Americans”. Weird huh?
Good to see Michael join in, even if it was to ask for a free car from Susan. But why did he call her Sarah? The plot thickens……
And finally, Glen brings another tear to my eye with his story of true love and old fashioned values(except for the part about marrying her even if she was a man). Nothing negative there. That was warm and fuzzy.
And on that note, I’m going to have a beer and get a shower.
It’s Friday!
GlenGary
Feb 15, 2008
Bob,
OK we should bomb others at will but not be upset if others invade or bomb us. We should waterboard and not be upset if say our granny or soldiers are done the same by others. We should colonialize countries for resources and call it spreading democracy and never be upset if Muslims colonialize America and whip some religious type government on us as we pick through Berlin style 1945 rubble we can thank them…. right?
They think their way is right and we think our way is right and we can fight that for another 2000 years and kill folks left and right still proving nothing. Except we are both killers. Better to disengage and leave their home and land to them. We can buy their oil without controlling them or pissing them off totally.
Maybe we should invite Chinese and Russian battle groups into our ports with open arms and even allow a Muslim Army to parade around armed in our country. Turn about is fair play.
What we do we should tolerate from others or what we do is simply wrong headed. Which is it?
If it’s right for us it’s right for others.
If it is wrong for others it is wrong for us unless you feel we wear Swastikas and are the Master Race. Which is it Bob? I’m dying to know. Do we salute a Fascist Nazi Dictator ala 1939 or do we live up to who we SAY we are? Ethics are easy for those who have none. Where are yours?
As for the man comment… only women get that. I meant that I love her no matter what she is. I love HER not just the wrapping or accessories… the insides to the last particle of an atom. Don’t get all homophobic on me. It wasn’t meant that way.
GG
Bob
Feb 15, 2008
Susan. Back to #387. If you buy some new clothes and try them on and somebody says “That makes you look really fat so you must be stupid too!” and then throws in a Nelson Muntz “ha ha” for good measure, that’s negative.
They could just say that “they don’t care for that one” or
“the other one looked better” and it would accomplish the same thing. That’s more positive.
As far as being in the crowd at the Emperor’s New Clothes Parade, I’d probably be one of the guys standing at the door of the pub who makes a joke about his weener or something and gets hauled off to the guillotine. That’s where I fit in that scenario.
Bob
Feb 16, 2008
Glen. We were the top dog in the world, like it or not. How long does the top dog last in a pack if he goes around letting every other dog smell his butt, eat his food and mess with his bitch? If you are going to be top dog, you have to put some fang into the dogs under you once in a while, or you won’t be top dog anymore.
Some other dog takes your place and then everybody wants a piece of you. The new top dog isn’t better or worse, just a different dog.
It’s better to be top dog. It’s a vicious world out there and we’ve lost touch with that over here. If you go all goody, goody, and whine that things should be fair for everybody, somebody will step on your neck. We have a choice between having our necks stepped on or not and you seem to think we should have our necks stepped on. I don’t, because even with our flaws, there still isn’t anybody in the world that deserves to be top dog more than us.
Bob
Feb 16, 2008
1000 years from now, they look back and say “America had the power, the strength, the resources, the knowhow, the people, they had everything. But they let it all go because they felt guilty about it and now they are a third world nation.”
We’re going to look pretty stupid.
susan28
Feb 16, 2008
Bob: just to clarify, when i say “we”, i mean “them”, and when i say “them”, i mean the scoundrels who’ve taken over the joint and turn what is always the best intentions of “us” (We The People, aka the USA) to their own unscrupulous ends. think Carnegies, Rockefellers et al and their thralls. you know, the usual suspects. the Kissinger crowd. i think “we’re” frikkin’ awesome, which is why “they” are so offensive to me.
and yes though i wasn’t a mechanic myself i was a curious child and demanded always to know what was being done and why (and what else could be done, and for how much, hehe), and that meant greasy.. everything.. and hot garages..
that vette was my version of *maturity* – something conservative for my new corporate gig – in college it was a 500-cube charger (bored out 440, thanks again Tony!!) – in high school i terrorised the rich kids of my posh catholic school and their new trans ams with an *11 second* (11.02 to be exact) rd400.. you know, the last of the 2-stroke screamers.. roller crank from a tz350 facotry bike, ported cylinders and twin 34mm carbs, had to run pre-mix cuz wasn’t an oil pump in the world could turn 13k rpms, and it took a Kawi 750 front end to hold ‘er down.. loved calling them out for pink slips infront of their cheerleader girfriends and watching them squirm.. (the revenge of the proles, i was).. the fastest car in school was owned by my fellow outcast and dear friend Tony – a stroked Olds 442 – and HIS refusal to run me scared the jocks even more (“don’t do it, she’ll take that thing and SELL IT FOR PARTS!”), and he should know cuz his dad owned the machine shop where the bike was built, i bought the parts and he did the work while i just smiled and nodded and kicked that shifter down down down while that grrrrl wound UP.. WOOOOHOOOooo.. ::shiver::
and yes Bob, you have my permission to envision the dreaded uniform on my divine rebelliousness.. to aid you: Cardinal Newman colours = green plaid skirt or blue slacks w/ white or gold blouse (as you please) and yep, saddle shoes.. bike = BLACK w/gold heads (black full-face helmet black visor) cafe seat rear-mounted pegs reversed levers (one up, 5 DOWN!!). ::swoon::
whewww!! if we keep this up imma hafta take up smoking cuz i suddenly need a cigarette
susan28
Feb 16, 2008
forgot to describe me then (typical aspie, object-oriented, don’t place myself in external reality) : 5-11, lanky, auburn hair blue eyes pure Irish, ‘specially the temper.. don’t always get when i’m being made fun of but when i did i bristled and wanted to race them and faithful mechanic had to calm me down, he would say they weren’t worth the cylinder wear
i’m a geek but have always been blessed with some cool friends looking out for me.. charmed, i am..
GlenGary
Feb 16, 2008
We are now a third world nation Bob. We OWE everybody and cannot pay it all back. Our banks are near bust and our bonds are not selling at the auctions because we are a bad risk and nobody really likes us either… They think we are cRaZy little Nazis like it or not.
The world is sick of our financial games-frauds and our threats which without money are pretty empty to boot and we have squandered ourselves poor. Our industry cannot even build half of our military needs and our military is in shambles both personel and equipment wise. The military even admits that.
We are nearing a Big Depression of our own making Bob and that means we sell out to the highest bidders to raise cash and that is no where near Top Dog Status. The Chinese sell some bonds and we die. The Saudis spurn the dollar and we die of inflation and we will.
Yea! Top Dog once, but we are poor wet cold dogs now with fleas and ticks and distemper slowly dying of arrogance by our own hands and far too stupid to even see it. Everything we do is borrowed money. The tax checks borrowed money…. The debitor is the poor guy—the guy gone begging for a handout and not hardly the top of the feeding chain as you will soon see. Dumpster diving.
I suppose you will tell me next that the economy is booming-a powerhouse of money making opportunity of high paying jobs for everyone who wants one. That would be Top Dog. We aint top dog. That was so…. yesterday.
How many people must we kill to prove our humanity and values? A Top Dog is a good leader and only bites when necessary. We made a sport of it and now the pack will take their revenge. Enjoy it.
GG
susan28
Feb 16, 2008
“A Top Dog is a good leader and only bites when necessary. We made a sport of it ”
i think that’s a good synapsis, GG. Top Dogs are self-sufficient and Betas come to *them* for goods and services, not the other way around, and Top Dog only bites when someone tries to steal from him. he’s wise, humble, and chooses his battles carefully, knowing that even an alpha can’t survive if every beta in the pack wants to rip him up. he builds loyalty by largesse and gains followers by example, and only uses violence in defense of his territory, being careful not to over-extend himself and is always mindful of the health and welfare of his pack.
Bob
Feb 16, 2008
See Glen? For some reason, you want it to happen. You’re crazy. I say we fight dirty and buy a few more years. The whole pack turns on the ousted top dog and it isn’t something to look forward to.
Chinese or Russian waterboards won’t be any nicer than ours, so why do they deserve the top spot? It’s too late to fix the past, we have to make the future as good for us as we can. Ron Paul’s idea of bringing home the troops and circling the wagons is a good one but it would have to be combined with defaulting on all our loans and starting over with our middle fingers raised in the world’s direction. Now that would cause some fighting man, but we still have the biggest guns if we can find the nerve to use them.
It’s WWIII no matter how you look at it but it would be better to fight it on our own terms. We might even win and be able to own and enjoy the few sprigs of greenery left on the planet afterwards.
It’s a mess but it isn’t all our fault. The whole world came to the party and joined in.
(Susan is messin’ with me with all that 5’11″, lanky, blue-eyed, hot tempered Irish stuff. She’s somethin’.)
Bob
Feb 16, 2008
You guys are getting too deep with the dog stuff. Top dogs are just the biggest, meanest son of a bitch in the pack and they don’t care about anybody but themselves.
susan28
Feb 16, 2008
so what do we here think of Christ’s admonition to sell everything we own and give it to the poor, then? what do we think of senidng torture squads (in direct violation of a federal law passed *explicitly* to bar Reagan from doing so) to central america to murder priests and their entire congregations for preaching “liberation theology”, which didn’t even preach charity, but merely *not stealing the poor’s land from them in the name of manifest freakin destiny” (codeword “Top Dog”).
you think Top Dog status exempts us from divine judgement? i notice that the more you think about money and power, the less Christian you sound, Bob. you seem to think you can have it both ways but Christ was uncompromising on the matter, not to mention Congress.
what say we just abolish Congress and the courts and just hand it all over to Old Top? that be best? stop cramping Ececutive Style ™ and just get on our backs? respect the old “Royal Prerogative(tm)” and quit tarnishing his image with all these accusations of genocidal atrocities?
and how does pulling out of Iraq make us more prone to default on our debts? it would save us TONS of cash.
i also think you’re framing this “war” all wrong, Bob. this isn’t a war of nations, or even civilisations, this is a class war, as all wars have been. elites get us to fight for their “interests” and against our own by waving the flag, it’s the oldest trick in the book. create some sacred talisman that people have a pavlovian response to then hide behind it. Goebbels himself described the process, yet we fall for it everytime.
“we” (and i use the term loosely) could conquer every country on the planet, and it would only make the lower classes (including ours) of the world less free. there is no “good” centrlised power. it’s power *itself* that’s dangerous; our founders knew that, which is why they tried so hard to institute the checks and balances that Executives have systematically dismantled over time (which does NOT respect the Office, let’s demand that respect start with the Occupant) and you seem to be a cheerleader for the whole process. you’re right that it doesn’t matter which countries’ elites are on top. as long as *anyone* is “on top”, liberty suffers. liberty ABHORS a Top Dog. we don’t need “Strong Leadrship(tm)”, we need representative democracy and Constitutional government.
you think our elites are gonna share any of that “precious little green left” with YOU once “we” (ie: our elites, with the blood of our kids) conquer it? i’m telling you that the more we conquer for them the more power they have, and the more power they – or ANY government in the world, relative to the others – get, the less free we (the plebes of the world) get. we’re dealing with folks who have NO respect for our flag and what it stands for – and i’m talking about the neocons, not “Iraquis”, who at least spare us the insult of claiming to love AMERICA – the folks you’re cheering on want to DISSOLVE America so that they can finally define borders the way they’ve always wanted to: SOCIALLY. no countries, just one world government with the only “borders” being the walls of gated communities which separate the haves and have nots.
which side will you be on then? and how will you define the “enemy” then, when there’s only one nation in the world, and the only flags are the crests of the ruling families? how will you define yourself then without the bread and circusses of “national identity” to latch onto? will you become a knight in the service of a feudal lord (Top Dog), well fed and armed by him to keep what once were your neighbors at bay? will you expose your belly to him for a few scraps from his table?
you know, Bob.. we weren’t even supposed to HAVE a national identity. the very *concept* is communist. we were supposed to be a loose-knit confederation of sovreign states, each with their own identity, that identity conferred by the individuals *in* it, coming together *only* to defend our borders, not “project our dominance”. to do that you need a national identity, and that requires Top Dog (i mean top down) management, the kind the fleeing european Communists who stormed our borders in the 1800′s gave us in the form of the Republican Party and their “great unifier” Lincoln, who cared naught for the slaves and everything for tariffs that protected his masters.
the first act of treason, i’m saddened to say, was replacing the Articles of Confederation with the Constitution we so worship these days. but it only looks good to us now because at least it is *some* kind of legal framework. but it changed
us from a “Nation” (organic) to a “State” (bureaucratic), and *that* was actually the beginning of the end, if we’re trying to trace this whole mess back to its roots. which it’s our patriotic duty to do. if nothing else we can chronicle it for future genrations to see where we went wroing and maybe avoid our mistakes.
you wanna root for “us” Bob, then root for the people – and *principles* – our flag represents, not the traitors who wave it in our face to rally us to their service.
and you know, speaking of “propriety” and “good form”, you know when we were throwing off the shackles of tyranny, our founders RUDELY said, “screw good form”, and had the audacity to *aim their guns*, which was considered rude, and worse yet, to aim them *at the leaders* of the “opposition”, who cried – and i quote – that “the leaders are the only thing restraining the rabble (the infantry) from engaging in barbarism, and to target them is bad for “both sides”, by which they meant “the elites on both sides”. even then, the elites viewed their own supporters as “the other”.
but our founders were ANTI ELITE and enjoyed smoking those Tory Bastards(tm) as much as i enjoyed smoking those accursed jocks (the Top Dogs of my school), and doing so right infront of their adoring little Stepford whores to increase the humiliation.. oh, the impropriety!! I LIVE FOR IT.. ‘s the Irish in me
and let’s get off the “waterboarding” charade, shall we? the “admission” of waterboarding is a limited hangout (you know what those are, right?). we do MUCH worse than that, and have been LONG before “911(tm)”. Uncle Ronnie couldn’t get enough of it, and the more illegal the better, knowing as he did that the Liberals(tm) were so naive that they had no conception of playing outside the rules and doing so would give him the drop on them. he also couldn’t get enough of our *machine guns*, kowing as he did that the domestic blowback to his policies would come home to roost sooner than later. smart man. and in a move that would make a Bush blush, it was called the “gun owners’ protection act” ..
i used to work at a fly-by-night stereo chain called Luskin’s back in the day – owner now in prison for conspiring to murder his wife for insurance money – and our illustrious genrsal manager – also in prison for soliciting the hit man – used to explain at every meeting the purpose of our “gurantee” – the “Luskin’s consumer proection plan” – he’d always have one of the old-timers stand up and gleefully declare, “to protect Luskins from the consumer!”.
that’s Reagan’s (bi-partisan) GOPA with Hughes Amendment (aka “the payload”) in tow.. and don’t believe anyone who tells you it was a “compromise”: he praised the Hughes Amendment *specifically* as “long overdue”. there was nothing patriotic abut that man but his image, Bob. he was a gun grabber and a lawbreaker. he was a criminal, Bob, and it pains me to say so, but don’t shoot the messenger. to do so is no better than to say those kids shouldn’t have outed the priests who raped them because to do so would “undermine people’s faith in the Church, as though appearance was more important than reality. that’s not just criminal it’s *psychoitic*. and those priests were never defrocked, just transferred. that’s one of the perks of a global regime. it’s called “shuffling the deck”.
the price of Liberty is eternal vigilance, Bob. we got a Republic if we can keep it. i’m not giving up yet, even if it’s over. i’m going down calling the tyrants what they are, and fighting them every step of the way.
GlenGary
Feb 16, 2008
Hey Bob “You guys are getting too deep with the dog stuff. Top dogs are just the biggest, meanest son of a bitch in the pack and they don’t care about anybody but themselves.”
Not to tip the hand but a neighboring county here just convicted such a guy of murder, Bobby Cutts Jr, a sociopath top dog.
What you described is a criminal.
GG
Bob
Feb 16, 2008
Wow Susan, you were up all night.
You and Glen want things to be right, fair and just and I admire that. But things aren’t that way, never have been and never will be because we are people. That either makes you angry and miserable(dark energy) or you learn to live with it and deal with it.
When Rome was a republic, it had degenerated into a squabbling political mess that could barely function(sound familiar?) until Julius Ceasar came along and whipped things into shape. In more recent history, similar things happened in France, Russia, China and Germany among others, and every one of those situations produced a magnificent tyrant. My stomach rolls when I hear people compare any of our Presidents to Hitler and the crowd because our guys couldn’t hold a candle to any of the big ones. You don’t seem to realize that when a tyrant is in his glory, his people LOVE him! It’s only after his fall that history jumps on him and tears him to shreds.(top dog syndrome)
Who’s side am I on? Why don’t I sound more Christian? Tough ones.
I’m on my side and the side of anyone I call my friend. I try to keep that circle small so I don’t over extend myself.
I think the United States was one of the best ideas people ever came up with but people wrecked it like people always do. The way to preserve a bearable lifestyle at this point, is to morph into something else and try to keep the other dogs off our back. The only other choice is to not, and get chewed up. That’s just an observation. Things would be nicer if we stayed on top but I’m ready, either way. I die in the end of this book, no matter what happens. Does that sound Christian? I told you, I’m a naturalist.
Jesus showed us how to live. He spoke the truth. He walked the walk. People seem to forget that it resulted in his being nailed up on a stick. He was an anti-tyrant. He had the power to lay waste to the Roman Empire if he had wanted to and his followers expected him to use it. When he didn’t, they left him to die alone on his stick.
“Jesus? I don’t know any stinkin’ Jesus! Must be morning already, I think I heard a rooster. Boy that was some party, huh?!!?”
But you see, he didn’t change the big picture of humanity, just a lot of little individual pictures. When you need strength and inspiration to stand up for what you believe in, His story is there for you. You end up on a stick for standing up to be counted, but you are true to yourself, you won’t back down in the face of certain death and that’s what counts. If you believe in that sort of thing.
Details, money, power, wars, situations, politics….it’s just here to keep us occupied. None of it REALLY matters. Just you matter and what you do, how you live and the choices you make. Don’s got that part figured out.
susan28
Feb 16, 2008
there’s another word for it, GG: a Nihilist! capital “N”, for someone who celebrates and practices it, as opposed to simply acknowledging it but trying (as i do) to work within it by creating new structures, even if those stuctures fly in the face of Nature Itself.
Nature abhors constitutional democracy because it empowers the weak as well as the strong, as does Christianity in its original form. this is why Nietzsche – who some call the father of modern-day fascism and advocate of the “noble lie” – loathed Christianity.
i admire Nietzsche for telling the truth, though i don’t share his *celebration* of that truth, which could be called “the religion of the Top Dogs”, or the Will to Power.
his work represents nothing less than a member of the Elite ™ removing the mask. but it can also be said that he never intended his books to be read by rabble like myself, whom he described in his swansong, “The Anti Christ”, as “chandala apostles”, or those who try to rouse the lower classes to stand up to their masters, when, for the most part, that rabble has neither the appetite nor the stomach for self-rule.
this is why we’re often loathed even *more* by those we try to awaken than by those who oppress them – witness the crucifixion of Christ for a classic example – and it is this phenomenon that makes me sometimes feel *contempt* for the rabble, and put on the capital “N” hat, actually *relishisng*
the notion of their masters dining on their carcasses, like antelope being devoured by lions. when i see them defending the lions, it brings out the lion in ME.. it is what they *want*. it’s what they *both* want. so why should i try to save them? well, because i *need their help*, of course, to fight *my* oppressor, who also happens to be theirs.
ever see “Hannibal Rising”? the most profound line in the movie was the headmaster chiding Hannibal for sticking a fork in a bully’s hand, saying, “Hannibal, you have no respect for the human pecking order.. you keep HURTING the BULLIES!!”. now this bully had tormented Hannibal mercilessly, but this was not discouraged. what *was* discouraged was stanidng up to them, because that violated the pecking order. if Nature has earmarked one for destruction or submission, it is considered “impolite” – we now call it Unpatriotic ™ – to object.
did you know nthat Washington’s troops at one point actually *asked* him to become their dicatator, and that they’d obey him without question? YES!!.. pathetic, isn’t it? and he SAID as much, and upbraided them for shirking their democratic *responsibility*. Washington was a patriot.
Nietasche pointed out, however, that the elites don’t have contempt for the lower classes, provided they stay obedient; so in that respect, i actually loathe the sheep more than those who eat them do. he likened this to hawks dining on mice. the mice don’t hate the hawk, they simply fear it. and the hawk, for her part, says, “i do not hate the mice i eat.. indeed, i find them quite delicious!!”.
by condeming this predator-prey relationship that all creatures share – even intra-species – as systems like Christianity and democracy do – we are condemning Nature itself, and in that respect, quite literally denying God’s Will as expressed via natural selection. it is self-evident to me that people are *not* created equal, that we are born not into freedom but bondage, so when i advocate democracy, i do so with eyes wide open as a nihilist who realises there *is* no absolute morality but power, and if we want to change things, we have to *act against our instincts* – master them – and enshrine the subjective values of our choosing, such as Christianity or other so-called “decadence religions” and their secular analogues like democracy and Libertarianism (do as thou wilt provided thou do no harm, which i feel is the best compromise between freedom and Nature).
so maybe the class war could be described ontologically as a battle between the cortex and the brainstem – the battle between reason and instinct. the hitch is that the brainstem’s more ancient, therefore the cortex is subordinate to it. it’s a bit of intellectual slight-of-hand to try to turn the tables. can we pull it off by a sheer act of WILL??
susan28
Feb 16, 2008
Roman Empire gave birth to monsters like Caligula, which i think is way worse than mere “public laxity” or whatever you wanna call it. no thanks, i’ll take the social decay.
and i think our tyrants give Hitler a good run for his momney. our black sites and covert escapaeds easily rival Hitler’s SS abuses, and despite the low “poll” ratings, Bush is massively popular with the bread-and-circusses crowd.
Hitler’s mistake was being too obvious. our elites (who put Hitler in power and financed him all thru the war, even built his machinery) have leanred from that. now they keep us squablbing amongst ourselves instead of trying to unify us. that works better. it’s the same eternal struggle, the tyrants just refine it more with each outing. son’t you see they *engineer* this “social decay”? you think this is about homosexuality and abortion or something? it’s always
“necessary to preserve civilisation”. we were “spreading civilisation” when we wiped out native Ameircans, and “civilising” the Negroes by Topping them (“they should be grateful”).
we can only lose tyranny when we stop obsession with
“civilisation”, and become willing to give it up, along with all the toys if necessary. it’s always our choice. i’d rather dance in its rubble than strain against its bonds. i know i can’t have it both ways and i’ve chosen my side.
Bob
Feb 16, 2008
The world is where it is today because most individuals do the wrong thing, live for their own interests and make bad choices. It shows up in the big picture.
Bob
Feb 16, 2008
Geez, I can’t keep up.
susan28
Feb 16, 2008
reading what you said Bob, i wouldn’t so much say i “believe” in “that sort of thing” – i don’t – i have no faith at all of any kind – it’s self-delusionary, unrealistic, and i hate fantasy. i don’t “believe” in Liberty, don’t accord it any moral significance, i simply prefer it, and prefer death to life without it, and indeed from a purely existential standpoint would prefer not to have been dragged into my parents’ little self-actualisation drama to begin with, non-existence being the only true freedom, but now that i have been i’m subject to the accursed empathy and survival instinct.
so you see i realise that Christianty and its analogues, while preaching “life more abundant”, are actually anti-life, which is why you’ll never hear me championing life, only Liberty. i think life’s a horrible, pointless endeavour of involuntary slavery. this is why i have refrained from procreating: because i share your worldview, just not your opinion, and it would be hypocritical of me to impose on some other hapless soul what i curse my parents every day for imposing on me.
we have kids for the same reason we kill and oppress each other. because we can. because “that’;s the way it is”. because we’re hapless tools of some blind force. welcome to the N-club, Bob. good to have you aboard.
susan28
Feb 16, 2008
“Geez, I can’t keep up.”
ya i’m over it too, i think we understand each other, and basically agree, you’re just more like me than i realised (maybe that’s why i scare you). i was trying to speak to you in Christian terms, but turns out we speak the same native language with no translation required.
let’s talk about beer. i got some Seadog Bluepaw Wild Blueberry Wheat Ale.. YUMMMMMMM!!!
it’s 10 bucks a sixer at the local elite-mart here in Manalapan.. those richers sure know how to live.. who am i kidding? i’m one of them.. can you say “Liberal Guilt ™”?, *wink*
Bob
Feb 16, 2008
When you see all of Hollywood and the media on Bush’s side, he has the bread and circuses crowd. Hitler and Napolean were heroes in their countries and had the admiration of a lot of other countries, and they were openly cruel and sadistic to any that opposed them. We wouldn’t be having this conversation if Hitler was in charge. It wouldn’t be worth the risk. We would be dead if we were caught. Our neighbors would turn us in because they love the Fuhrer so much.
Bush doesn’t come close.
Michael Hampton
Feb 16, 2008
Susan, you need to come up here to New Hampshire and drink it on tap with fresh blueberries at Murphy’s Taproom.
P.S. Guys, I do post new stuff every once in a while which you might enjoy reading and discussing…
susan28
Feb 16, 2008
Bob: i’ll get back on this topic of Bush and co just briefly:
don’t you think that “not being able to talk about it in public” is what we’re being steered toward? it seems like just a matter of time. chroniclers of the nazis all remark how *slowly* it happened, one freedom stripped at a time, almost imperceptibly, always by “necessity”, sometimes
“regrettably”, with all the forms of daily life left in place. newspapers, etc. but the tone has subtly changed.
that’s what i see happening as i sip my Bluepaw..
Michael: aw-RIIIIGHT!!! meow!! wow.. i really gotta get me up to the Free State.. you guys are doin’ it *right and proper* up there!! i’ll let the M3 be the official FSP crew vehicle in summer and you guys schlep me to the meetings in the FWD in winter
think i’ll go have a gander at that poor neglected homepage
Bob
Feb 16, 2008
whew. Are we done for now? Puff puff. I’m not a nihilist, I’m a naturalist……a naturalist….a, a, aaaaaaaaaaggghhh.
“Perhaps he was dictating?”(said with a British accent)
susan28
Feb 16, 2008
yeah i think we’re done, Bob.. Nietzsche called himself Naturalist too, actually. he claimed that it was only artificial moral constructs that were meaningless, and was perceived as a Nihilist because those constructs were what contemporary meaning was built upon, so he was perceived as asserting that “nothing matters”, but he thought life mattered a great deal, in and of itself, and that it didn’t *require* meaning. it was actually Nihilsm that he railed against, saying the only way to avoid it was to let go of ideologies and just revel in the natural process. he was very Zen, really, in a fire-and-brimstone kinda way.
part of it with me as i hinted at before is i’m an “aspie” – Asperger’s Syndrome – which in my case manifests as an extreme, neurologically-encoded sensitivity to both my own pain and others’ – which is why i say “accursed” empathy – so if someone stubs a toe on the other side of the world i say “ouch”, which is a tough road thru life and not conducive to happiness. but i kinda like the alien-ness of it. gives me perspective. makes me an intrense dj, also, when i’m not lost in the throes of it. every curse has its blessing attached i guess.
have a great day, Bob. real honour to know ya. ::raising a Bluepaw to ya::
Don
Feb 18, 2008
Bob, thank you for understanding, part of my argument; I will return the favor. I agreed with a lot of what you said, but allow me to tweak the “top dog” part of it. Yes we have been the world’s top dog, since about WW2, but we certainly haven’t acted like it. We are a nation of such nice people, that we would not have sat still, and let our government wrongfully hurt another country. The proof of this is our President’s approval rating. Most people have been convinced that we are “hurting” Iraq, and there is literally rioting in the streets. Now although I have not been convinced, that we are really hurting Iraq, I will not passionately defend my position, because the ONLY PEOPLE, who know the truth about this, are the people who live there. I have seen Iraqis being interviewed, and some take one side and some take the other, so I still don’t know. Oh, and Bob; thank you for the nice words that you said about, my Lord Jesus. It is a shame that your not I Christian, but I am still praying for you.
Now for Susan & GG; Both of you have made good arguments. After reading Susan’s extensive writings, I know exactly where she stands on this subject. Although your arguments were good, the problem with them, is that they are based on revisionists history. When it comes to political history, I have no strong opinions(and none of us should have), because none of us, know exactly how things were. (e.g.) I think Abraham Lincoln was a good guy, but you can find all kinds of opinions about him out there. Also, I have always taken the attack on Pearl Harbor, at face value. But a while back, I saw a show called “War Stories” with Oliver North, and he seemed to have evidence that proved, that our government knew that the attack was coming. The funny thing about “evidence”, is It can always be twisted, to make what ever point you want to make. Therefore I am not going to take a passionate stand about what evil things our nation might have done in the past.
Something has been said, about America deserving God’s judgement, and I fully agree. It all comes down to shedding innocent blood. Sure enough we(as a nation), have shed a lot of innocent blood, but only God Himself knows which blood was truly innocent and who is truly responsible for shedding it. For example we have, Iraq & O.J. Simpson(are innocent people really being targeted? and did he really do it?). But there is a lot of blood being shed out there, that is certainly innocent; i.e. That of unborn babies. More unborn babies have been killed, than in all of Africa, and relatively few people are up in arms about that.
Lets just stick to the things that we know: I am of the opinion, that the only things you can trust, are the things that man hasn’t been allowed to mess with. One of those things, is “true science”. You mix two chemicals together in a laboratory, and you can get the FACTS, about what happens when you mix them together. Man’s opinion has nothing to do with it. The other thing, that man hasn’t been allowed to mess with, is God’s Word. The Bible is written in words, and God has protected and will continue to protect His Words from being changed. I have been accused of only picking Scripture that supports my opinion. Although I could do this(false prophets have done it for centuries), I would never do it. You just have to take my word for that.
We are a wicked nation, in a world of wicked nations, and it will always be that way. Note: Government, is like cheap cat litter. The parts that stink, won’t clump up so that they can be removed. Therefore all of it starts to smell bad. And when the smell gets bad enough, it has to go.
Bob
Feb 18, 2008
Glen left us a message on the “Welcome USA Today Readers” topic. Don’t know what he was doing over there.
susan28
Feb 18, 2008
great post Don!! you are a gentleman and a scholar.. thanks for taking the time to hear me out.
the one hangup i always had with the Bible was the conflict between the Talmudic stuff in the OT and Christ’s admonitions – like the OT’s prescriptions for when and when not to stone people, and Christ basically adopting an ethic of “y’all play nice now”, while at the same time saying he was the completion of the law and not its abolishment. but if we are to assume that the most recent iteration of a thing is the most applicable – the way a new Constitutional amendment can trump and old one, while leaving the old one “still on the books” – then it would seem that Christ was trying to take the Church in a more Libertarian direction without abandoning the spirit of the Law.
re: Lincoln, taking him to task is very counter-intuitive for me, because he was a very moral man and i’m a Leftist (ie: a “righteous interventionist”) at heart – used to say things like, “we’re one country, why do we need states?”, and “why can’t we pretend we’re getting attacked by aliens, then we’d all be ‘the humans’ instead of nationalities” – but i’ve come to realise just from living long enough that the unintended consquences of centralised power almost always outstrip the benefits. there remians no better mousetrap than Liberty, imo, when it comes to getting along. folks tend to figure that out eventually, but rushing it just backfires.
a good example would be my reaction to school: i *loved* learning and could already read, do basic math and identify every country on the map (i had a puzzle of it with countries as the pieces) when i was 4, but as soon as i was dragged kicking and screaming by the “safeties” (the Catholic school equivalent of prison trustees) off to school, crammed behind a desk and told to sit down and shut up, i instinctively viewed everything said – true or otherwise – as propaganda and rejected it.
the safeties assured me i’d LOVE school.. but they wouldn’t let go of my arm!! and why were those nuns using rulers as whips instead of measuring devices? i cowered in fear at the sight of them..
because of this i rejected things like math because it was posed to me as a “requirement for a good career” (another form of slavery, i thought), instead of being posed to me as the key to the universe, which would’ve made me ravenous for it. left to my own devices i’d have grown into an Einstein, but compulsory education created a Rousseau. i rejected civilisation because it was forced on me as a responsibility rather than offered to me as the wonderful gift it is.
like a great orator once said, “it’s all in the delivery”. this is also true of dj’ing. it’s not what you play, it’s how you play it. what we’re doing in Iraq, i think, will garner the knee-jerk “Rousseau” reaction if my personal story is any indication. we’re playing great music but totally botching the mix (this is called a “trainwreck” in dj parlance).
i was “radicalised” against learning because of how it was presented to me, and i think we’re radicalising Iraqis against liberal democracy the same way. i hope it works out over there, but i think we’re taking the long road.
Don
Feb 19, 2008
Susan
I am glade, to respond to your question about this apparent contradiction in the Bible, and I will. But I want to be careful, that I don’t abuse the privilege of using this site. When Michael Hampton, started it, the discussion was suppose to be about the great economic collapse, that is coming. Therefore, when I finish answering your question, I will close with a word about economics.
The Scripture you referenced, is a very interesting one; You would be surprised how many people, that I have encountered, that had the same question, as you have about it(including, some so-called “preachers”); I recall about twenty five years ago, while discussing the subject of the Bible’s infallibility, with a young man in Bible collage, preparing to be a pastor, who said something to me about all the mistakes in the Bible, and I immediately challenged him to show me “one”, and this was the only one that he could come up with.
The misconception you have made, comes down to that same old mistake that most of the population is making about God, the Bible and the way of salvation; i.e. Overlooking the details of what the Bible actually says. The truest old saying that I have ever heard, is the one that reminds us, that “the devil is in the details”. When you see the details of what the Bible actually says, you will clearly see that it agrees with itself, from one end to the other.
First of all, the Scripture in question, is found over in John 8:3-11, where a woman taken in adultery, was brought to Jesus, as a test, to try and trip Him up, but the plan backfired, big time. The details that I was talking about earlier are found in Deuteronomy 17:5-7. If you have your Bible handy, look this passage up(it will bless your heart). What it says, is that when someone has committed a sin, that calls for the death penalty, that there must be at least two or three witnesses, for the judgement to be carried out. Now back to the main text(John 8:), in this account, Jesus didn’t say a word, He simply stooped down and started writing something in the dirt(the only record of Jesus ever writing anything); And he stood up and said, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” Then He stooped back down, and continued writing in the dirt. Well, what ever He was writing, must have been some dirty little secrets, in the lives of those who were accusing the woman, because they all quietly went away. When Jesus came to his feet, he asked the woman, “Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?” Now we see the details of what the Bible really says.
Oh, by the way, I have heard others criticize God, for only condemning the woman, but not the man, when it comes to this particular sin. Well this is another example of people not finding the details. (See Leviticus 20:10) One of the things that sets the Bible far above every other religious book on earth, is the fact the God gives us the details, of every single instruction that He gives us. Not only does a Christian know what they are supposed to do, but if they study the Bible, the LORD will explain exactly why, they should do it.
Now for my statement about economics. The fact is everybody wants to make a profit. I heard an oil company executive, on C-SPAN the other day, crying about how his oil company is only making about 1cent profit, on every gal. of gas sold. I felt so sorry for him. He explained that all their great profits were coming because of the price of crude oil, and he continued to complain, that they aren’t seeing a penny of their profits, because they are investing all of it, into new oil wells(I wonder why). Well if anyone is truly interested in making a profit, than here is what the Bible says about it. “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?” (Mark 8:36)
Duane
Feb 19, 2008
They say that the recession is world wide. There is really no monetary safe-haven to put your US dollars into. Once again commodities win out. The question is which ones. I see gold and silver are strong and this is the time of year these metals usually take a little rest.
susan28
Feb 19, 2008
good stuff Don! ‘specially the Leviticus. i did extensive Bible study all during elementary and high school but not much since then (fell off the wagon i’m afraid, but always keep my mind open) except to double-check the stuff that gets quoted by what i call the “agenda benders”.. you know the crowd i mean i’m sure..
so it sounds like you’re saying that stoning is still the law, but there’s basically no-one on earth sinless enough to administer it, which seems to be what was getting him in trouble with the Pharissees.
and yea – here’s the segue – wait for it – those oil wells ain’t gonna do ‘em much good come judgement day.. no, not the Second Coming.. i’m talkin’ PEAK OIL
here’s something i dug up yesterday which dovetails not just with economics but with Bob’s notion of us morphing into “something different”. it could be good or bad for civil liberties and i’m not jumping the gun on judgement of the idea, but it’s something along the lines of what the author calls “market states” – or “Rollerball World” for us old folks who know JAMES CAAN is frikkin JONATHAN E, dangit!!
the article doesn’t go that far, but i can imagine
“corporate anthems” of the various market-specialised regions, which could have more or less individual freedom within the various corporate cultures, which will replace states for all practical purposes. it could be disastrous or liberating, depending on your definitions.
here’s the excerpt, from ReasonOnline:
“Robb’s penultimate chapter, “Rethinking Security,” discusses the smart way today’s “market-states” can ensure resilience against global guerrillas and other network failures. A “market-state” —Robb takes the term from the legal scholar and historian of warfare Philip Bobbitt— is a putatively post-bureaucratic government that “secures political legitimacy through the active pursuit of opportunity for its citizens but declines to specify the goals for which that opportunity is used.” Robb believes these marvelous institutions predominate in the developed world. He uses “market-state” as an umbrella term that covers systems as various as the U.S. (an “entrepreneurial market-state”), the European Union (a “managerial market-state”), and the “mercantile market-states” we used to call the Asian Tigers: Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, and South Korea. I have trouble seeing any of these countries as meaningfully post-bureaucratic, but Robb reports that Bobbitt believes they are “in various phases of the transition” to full market-statehood.”
GO HOUSTON ENERGY!! GO JONATHAN!! ..the problem was, they wouldn’t let Jonathan WIN..
it’s a great article actually focussed on global terrorism which i’ll probably exceprt a bit over on the new terrorism thread. makes alotta sense. stay tuned.
susan28
Feb 19, 2008
Duane: there’s a great article up on Lew Rockwell’s site by Gary North about what commodities are most valuable and WHEN – it’s not enough just to load up on precious metals. you have to keep careful track of the different phases of crash and recovery. it might still be time to buy precious metals IF you sell during the peak of the crash, but they’ll do you less good after. then, it’ll be all about the food.
i think the article was called, “so you’ve bought gold, now what?” or something like that.
Bob
Feb 19, 2008
I wondered where you got to Duane. Things got kind of crazy around here. Good to get back on the topics of gold and guns. I hope Glen comes back. He knew a lot of good details.
Duane
Feb 19, 2008
Hi Susan
The article is entitled “What Will You Do With Your Gold?”
Hey Bob I have been around just keeping up on this board. Looked like it was headed towards the dogs but I had faith.
The problem is the liquidation of metals at their peak – what does this entail. One would liquidate a commodity because of the quantity of fiat dollars being offered for it. The end result is one owns more worthless dollars and NOW has a lesser commodity inventory than before. Example: A person buys an ounce of gold for $900 and the price of that ounce of gold goes up to $2000. This is the time to sell that ounce of gold? Well one could argue that there is a $1100 profit to be realized but the problem is is the profit represents $1100 worthless fiat dollars. No thank you – I will hold the gold.
susan28
Feb 19, 2008
hey Duane. so do think North is wrong then? i’ll admit i was getting lost in it. so much psychology. as much Freud as Mises. seemed like some good nuggets there though.. (lol i’m just full of puns today).
North mentioned farmers faring the best at rock bottom, but couldn’t this also translate to converting gold stocks into food commodity stocks after gold peaks?
c’mon back Glen, we’ll brighten up we promise! we just needed to take a time out to see where everyone stood on some things.. just a lil friendly courtship ritual ‘s all..
Duane
Feb 19, 2008
Hey Susan
I think North is saying that don’t plan to get rich on precious metal BUT one can maintain their wealth by investing into them. What is happening is that the fiat dollars are traded for precious metals that will hold on to one’s wealth. Let me put it this way. In our present economy what would one rather have; 1) $100,00 of fiat money in one hand or 2)100 gold eagles in the other? This is the bottom line.
GG is probably out digging holes and laying out pointed bamboo shoots or something. He will jump in here after his work is done – I am sure.
GlenGary
Feb 19, 2008
Hi,
Ok here we go.
Because of last summer’s droughts in the US and floods in other parts of the world, the worldwide wheat supply is at it’s lowest point in 60 years. This is significant since today we have a much higher world population and demand than 60 years ago and zero surplus for a cushion. The United States is the largest grower of wheat in the world and we are running on empty to meet the demand.
I was looking at the CBOT (Chicago Board of Trade) Monday in the commodities sector. In December wheat was selling at around $4.40 a bushel and today it is $19.80 a bushel March contracts. Over 450% gain in price in less than two months. This will spill over into soy beans and corn the latter of which is cattle and chicken feed as well as human food and ethanol stocks.
This will drive everything from bread and pastries to cattle and chickens even higher and don’t forget milk and butter. In this economy, how much more load can the US take before we get a total implosion of the economy?
There was a refinery fire in west Texas and gas will respond with even higher prices which also hits food deliveries. Last night locally-Ohio I saw $3.14-gas to $3.48-Diesel and this time last year gas was average $2.26 until it did it’s evil jump last spring. Oil on the exchanges today $98.
The tax rebates will push the dollar to new lows against food, energy etc.. If calculated on a $600 check, a person getting $600 will see his $600 costs rise to $1,100 by this time next year. In other words those checks will cause more inflation in near everything. Save the check or invest it, you will need it for inflation by next year or sooner.
Let’s now add in that folks in Japan are dumping dollars at the highest rate ever seen (Forex Trading) and the Iranian Oil Bourse is going to shake things up a bit and… China plans to UP their interest rates to support a stronger RMB. This makes their money the sexy young thing on the block investment wise while the dollar becomes the old hag to be avoided.
There you have it. You now know a storm is coming your way. It will affect everyone not prepared for it. How one reacts to this is up to them totally.
Oh Yea, Silver is up .48 today and gold looks to be coming on strong as well.
GG
PS
March through July has little stand still time. Projects.
Bob
Feb 19, 2008
Glen is back! My heart soars like a hawk. Did you get all your holes dug and your pointy, dung smeared, bamboo shoots placed firmly in the bottoms? Duane is such a kidder.
Wouldn’t have been the same here without you even if all we do is talk about crap. I have a friend that used to describe people like us as “armchair philosophers”. Dirty job but somebody’s got to do it. Even if you are busy, I hope you drop a line once in a while.
You’re right Duane. Don’t sell your gold unless you are going to use the profits to buy more gold when the price dips. Or if you need to buy food because you’re starving to death, but that’s pretty obvious.
You got gold Susan? You’ve never spoken of it.
susan28
Feb 19, 2008
the only gold we have is about 10k in collector coins my father had accumulated over the years for sheer fetish value. proof sets and the like. my mom’s money and mine are all consoidated in long-term CD’s and IRA’s right now but for a well-padded checking account used to power the plastic. we’ve been cruising along comfortably on the interest for years now and i’ve been content to let her manage it while i traversed the globe fleeing the sunrise..
we’d take a beating for early withdrawal of the principle, but i’m trying to prevail upon her to convert the cash we do have to withdraw yearly into gold holdings. last year she flipped it all back into cd’s again at crappy interest while i was out of country. she’s old and not worried about her future basically and doesn’t really grasp the current reality of things. we’re on everything jointly but she’s really stubborn and i can’t talk to her for longer than the length of a commercial break, and then i’m competing with a mystery novel or computer solitaire, it’s onna those situations.. and if i DO start to get through she gets ANGRY and says “i don’t wanna hear these things!! are you intentionally trying to UPSET me??” ..
yeah.. they got her good.. as they did pretty much everyone in that age group.
Bob
Feb 20, 2008
Some gold is better than no gold but time is running out for investments and bank accounts. Keep working on her.
Anybody born between the late twenties and late 1930′s has had a pretty good run. You can’t blame them for the way they look at things, I guess. They’ve always been able to trust the banks and the government, and values and investments always went up. It’s hard for them to see it any other way. When things started to change, they were out of the workforce for the most part and it didn’t affect them because of their investments, pensions, and the inflated value of everything they owned. They just think that’s the way it should be when you get old. They say the younger generations are having trouble because they don’t know how to manage their money and live within their means. I guess the truth will bite them too, just like everybody else when the free money pond dries up.
There’s always a new twist with you. I couldn’t picture you letting somebody else manage your money. Very complex.
susan28
Feb 20, 2008
yep you got the genrational thing right Bob. she misses the days before the internet when the government wasn’t corrupt
but yeah i’m workin’ on ‘er. little spoonfuls.
me, never been too attached to the maya. i don’t give her my money to manage, i just give it to her. she can spend it as she likes (mostly on gambling, lol) as can any friend or stranger in need. guess you could call me a “dry Christian”, lol.. i like to travel light. but now there’s survival involved so it’s got my attention. feeling my mortality i guess.
i allow myself a few luxuries like the m3 but that really does represent value to me. new enough to hold my own in traffic – even in a chase, hehe – and old enough for the premium to have worn off. buying a used car to me is kinda like adopting a kid. a home for a castaway that just wants to please. i feel good about that. and even *then* mom had to twist my arm to get me to upgrade from my old 325 when it came time for a rebuild as i was sentimentally attached. truth be told i drove it better than i drive the M. fit like a glove. but then there’s no bad way to drive an M
she *will* have a cow when i hand Vic Tibbets 3k to build my Delta Elite, but she’s just gonna have to suck it up cuz i’ve already been waiting 2 years and counting.. and don’t tell anyone he’s doing it cuz he’s officially stopped building anything but his .50 GI’s but let me scoot under the fence cuz i was gushing so much over a build he did for a friend. love those scalloped slides <3
GlenGary
Feb 20, 2008
Bob-Susan,
Nobody does heavy lifting any more. Folks want Fox, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS to tell them what is and no one does anything but blindly trust. The past does not equal the future. Never did.
2006 my wife was diagnosed with cancer with an operation scheduled 11 weeks later. Prognosis was not good at all. Like less than 15%. Death sentence.
We did some stuff on our own and then asked for new tests and the Docs said we must do this thing now. They cut her open, NO CANCER…. Gone! Poof! That was last January 2007. Three more checkups…. still nothing there. Gone.
(All during this time my sister and others told me to stop what I was doing and listen to the Doctors.) Now they say it was just luck. Yea, right.
There went the easy revenues for the hospital as they slowly killed her and then said; “Gee, it was just too aggressive, sorry.” Man am I bitter about that! You could see it coming like a freight train. No way was I going to sit by and lose her!
Now, these idiots watched a cyst turn into a tumors over a FIFTEEN YEAR PERIOD and said “We can do nothing unless…”. Unless was cancer. Assholes.
According to Main Stream Media the things we did were of no use. But no cancer…but they say no use. But still it worked. But no one really wants to believe us even with test results because they have been so brain washed.
Cut burn poison is their answer, not total body detox, whole foods, removing sugar and whites from the diet, heavy dose vitamin C, MSM, sauna daily and Ozone. Supporting the immune system rather than destroy it with radiation, toxic chemicals and traumatic cutting.
That doesn’t make sense to people as I sit here drinking activated oxygen a few times a day. Oxygen kills pathogens, viruses, destroys yeasts, parasites and yes…cancer. Regulates hormones and detoxes the body. I sauna five days a week. Detox is respiration, perspiration and elimination. It is preventative. It feels good and what’s 30 minutes a day anyway?
It’s like gold and silver, it will be good when the Gods of TV can’t stop talking about it not before. Until then it’s crackpot material even with the parabolic run up. Off the radar it is and folks will live to regret it but I guess SO WHAT? You snooze you lose and that is their fault for being lazy and uninformed by watching reality TV but not living in reality. It’s a killer Bob. But everyone has choices and they make them whether we agree or support.
I helped a guy with renal cell carcinoma after his Docs gave up-same hospital, same floor as wife and told him he would die in a month. That was January 2007. Feb 24 was the death date. Last October when I saw him he looked great. Had golfed all summer-fall long. His Doc said what ever you did keep doing it… it has started to reverse. (Flood your body with oxygen-juice-easily digestable whole foods, vitamin C, MSM, water…lots of clean water. No acids like whites, sugars, processed foods, alcohol.)
But folks blindly trust and what it does can ruin or kill them and aint noth’in anyone can do about that but them and they refuse. So be it. End of story.
I’ve found that I don’t need to waste my time trying to convince any one of anything. Tell it like it is once. If they bite fine. If they show you their back then go about your business in peace and stop wasting time. It’s like “did I stutter?”
100 ounces just this minute arrived. Pile it on!
GG
susan28
Feb 20, 2008
wow GG that was one heapin’ helpin’ of great advice! thanks so much for sharing that, i saved the whole email for future reference. do you have an opinion on those detox footpads? where you send them in and they tell you what came out? i was thinking of trying those.
my aunt was diagnosed with inoperable brain cancer, huge tumour supposedly, they wrote her off but scheduled a biopsy, meanwhile our quite formidable Catholic extended family got the prayer line going and when they went in it was *gone*. no special diet no nuthin’. hadn’t even left the hospital. not sure what’s up with that but the doctors are certain what they saw.
GlenGary
Feb 20, 2008
Susan
Often brain tumors respond to potassium tablets I think because they are often water type cysts. We know a lady who too was inoperable and potassium did the trick. (I hate MDs.) I quit going when I was told I had COPD in 1992. Yea right. I still smoke and still swim, hike, lift weights, chop my own wood…. yea, real sick. That idiot… I had the flu. What a moron!
I could write a book on potassium and men. It’s vital to men over 40.
Foot Pads, my opinion is that if that’s all you have then go for it. They are expensive and slow.
MSM powder is cheaper-240 doses about $16 and makes your insides more slippery and helps flush toxins, parasites, induce the liver to excrete more bile and lubricates joints and helps clean lymph fluid. The body is about 70% lymph and 30% blood so cleaning that juice is like an oil change. That’s why water is important too.
Ozone–A Killer Of A Tool
Ozone, you can get a decent ozone generator for around $340 delivered and the money you save on veggies in a few years pays for it as if you use ozone to wash fruits and veggies they store about five times longer. It kills all the bacteria on the fruits and veggies therefore they deteriorate slower. The same action helps the body when ozone is consumed. (Air-Zone and add the dot com)
I have the XE Tin.. air and water model. Ozone is something used by 9000 Doctors in Germany as well as emergency rooms in other countries and readily available in the UK in clinics. In the United States it is shunned because it works? That’s the feeling I get. Ozone DESTROYS Tumors. It has been proven to do that yet here in the US…….. No Dice!
I made my wife a vaginal catheter and she injected the gas and in weeks BOOM no cancer and a 8 cm fibroid shrunk to 2 cm and then gone it was. I likewise used it on warts and they disappeared and a lot of other good things have happened as well. (Hair grew back, energy through the roof! Fungal toe nails went bye bye… The list is long! I’m 100% sold on it. Nothing like it.
Look up “Ellagic Acid and breast cancer” you will be startled I guarantee it. Google “Ozone Therapy”, MSM Powder, Cordycepts is another good Google. Did you know there is a cure for Type One diabetes? There is. Go to Canada or Japan.
Google Edmonton Protocol. Near 80% success rate.
This is a bit hardcore but I had nothing to lose. I bought a steam cabinet used on Ebay and then drilled a hole in it, (the kind of steamer your head sticks out of because breathing straight ozone is bad for the lungs,) any way I inserted the ozone hose into it and thinking that when the skin gets hot, pores open and then ozone would go in. Homemade hyperbaric chamber. Thing really torches the kidneys… even after a 30 minute steam I’d pee every 15 minutes for about 90 minutes no doubt detoxing my insides. This went on for both of us for two months. Finally it quit doing that so much. Figure it cleaned us out.
Again….energy through the roof!
What is Ozone? Ozone is O3 while oxygen is O2.
MD’s won’t tell you this. Cancer is anaerobic, cannot live in oxygen. The body is aerobic and thrives in oxygen. Pathogens cannot thrive in oxygen. Bacteria is killed by oxygen. Fungus and mold die in ozone.
Fungus in the body is caused by acid diets. Sugar sugar sugar, bleached white flour, white spuds, alcohol, processed foods. A cancer diet if you will. Goes back to you are what you eat.
This is getting too long. I have about 3000 hours of study and notes over 16 months. Learned a lot.
Now I trust MD’s and the media like I’d trust my life to a pit full of rattlesnakes with me in it. Screw that.
GG
susan28
Feb 20, 2008
thanks again GG. quickly: is the Ozone generator how you get the super-oxygenated water?
Duane
Feb 20, 2008
I heard silver is going up $1 to $1.50 higher in the very near future. One thought is that oil is the anchor of precious metals. Thoughts?
GlenGary
Feb 21, 2008
Susan,
Ever see the bubbles in a fish tank? The ozone generator has a hose with a stone head on the end of it. You stick the stone in the glass of water-make sure the glass is glass or ceramic, ozone hates plastics, add ice, turn on the generator, watch it bubble five minutes, hoist the glass and drink it down within a few minutes. There, you just did it. The O3 is unstable so you drink it pretty quickly, half life is 20 minutes so 20 minutes in the gutt is good. O3 is 3 singlets oxygen… in the water. Oxy-water.
Ozone hates what is not “of the body” so an empty stomach…or drinking it 1.5 to 2 hours after eating is the must here or you will hurl as soon as it hits bottom. Wife had that happen. Gulp-Splat instantly.
The thing I noticed first was energy and it cleaned me out. My whole body got warmer and cold weather stopped bothering me. Sinus problems left after I put the hose 1″ from my ear canals for three minutes each on five days. Dried it all out… it was a head rush too. Gunk cleared from my ears. No more sinus problems I’d had since I was a pup. Eye sight better too.
Then the oil came back to my skin like I was 19 again…winter dry skin left and elbows became smooth, feet-hands started shedding callouses-old dead stuff. Then my body hair came back-had no hair on legs figuring heavy metal poisoning-30 years in a steel mill, then bald spots on head disappeared and an old wart on my neck-collar area went bye bye. In very hot humid weather breathing became like normal. My hair now is more dirty blonde than gray.
With the ozone and diet changes I feel better than I remember feeling in 20 years. Sleep like a stone and wake up immediately alert-able to think with ZERO and I mean ZERO aches or pains. I can give my bowflex a good run and not get sore at all. I’ll be 55 in 21 days and I find that alone amazing. (Sex is a hoot too, frequency went way up and stamina.)
To me… bearing in mind no colds or flu this year, cancer gone, all other problems either gone or minimal… it’s money well spent.
I ozoned strawberries last winter and after THREE weeks in the fridge-no mold. A bit dry but no mold. Amazing. I kept them until they shriveled up, it took 5 weeks… still did not mold.
GG
GlenGary
Feb 21, 2008
Duane,
Precious metals are the barometer of inflation, they tell you what is there. Oil was $101 this morning as silver was sitting there at $18.01 with gold at $944 albeit bouncing like the oil….. so the answer is… there is a link.
The link between silver and gold and the dollar seems weaker than silver and gold and the black goo.
GG
GlenGary
Feb 21, 2008
Silver Bars,,, Silver Bars,
It’s hungry time in the city,
Garbage Cans, Dumpster Fans,
Soon they will be dead and gone.
City sidewalks busy sidewalks dressed in homeless folks here,
In the air there’s a feeling they’re whacked out,
No prescriptions and no Prozac the insurance is gone,
In the air there’s just hunger fed rage!
Silver Bars,,, Silver Bars,
It’s hungry time in the city,
Garbage Cans, Dumpster Fans,
Soon they will be dead and gone.
String them all up, from the street lights
Bring you’re AK with you,
Slap a clip in and show them no mercy!
Hear the snow crunch
See the crowds bunch
This is AK’s big scene,
Feel the power as you
shift into mean!
Silver Bars,,, Silver Bars,
It’s natural selection in the city,
Klack Klack Klack!– Paddy Whack!
There aint no stupid folks left!
Thank You… Thank You, Thank You Very Much Folks.
Too cold out to work… Let’s play!
GG
GlenGary
Feb 21, 2008
Disclaimer… Any resemble-ance between reality and what I write has no connection at all. View my posts in the same light you would a political campaign.
Parody Folks..
Duane
Feb 21, 2008
A Standing O ::::clap clap clap::::
Lets not forget:
Over the liver, they have no supply of goods
To Bankrupcy house they go
Of course theire’s no way, they can further afford to play
In their house or car that they love and know
Oh oh – it makes you shiver – being outside
In the white and drifting snow
Waiting for the soup line to open
because ther is no place to go
Metals are kicking azz!
susan28
Feb 21, 2008
“Ozone hates what is not ‘of the body’”
Friday Nutrition Tips with Landru
::swaying to the Winter melodies, snapping my fingers to the poetry::
GlenGary
Feb 21, 2008
Susan,
Susan must come to The Hall of Audiences and emplore me-Landru by saying “Landru! Guide us!” and I will guide you in your comings and goings my child.
You are of the body for I see all, know all and am all. Those not of the body must be absorbed and you must all worship me by saying “All praise be to Landru!” for I am the Supreme Being George Bush’s R-Big Toe your real President and master. All hail to the Neocons! All hail to The Skull and Bones! All hail to Landru!
Duane–Great Lyrics!
GG
Duane
Feb 21, 2008
You know Clinton was the only president to get caught doing hankipanki between the Bushes.
GlenGary
Feb 21, 2008
Time To Get Honest Here.
New Parody—Hark The Candy Ass Population.
Hark The Candy Ass Population Hides Out, We are shaking In Our Shoes!
They are coming, locked and loaded, tell on neighbors throw them Dad!
Throw them granny, throw them sister, give them anything “Oh please Mister!”
I don’t want to starve or die! Please please take the other guy!
Hark The Candy Ass Population Sings-Please Don’t Take Our Sacred things!
Leave my puter and my Gameboy, please don’t take the ipod too. Please unhand my cell phone mister, I will gladly trade you sis! Mom is waiting in her bed, so you don’t take her shower head. Please unhand my car keys too! We’ll let you have our young aunt Sue!
Hark The Candy Ass Population Sings-Please Don’t Take Our Sacred things!
We’ll do anything just bend us over, lube us up and ream us out! Look we’re smiling, yes we like it! Compliance is key to keeping things! Ipods puters, cell phones safe! BMW a grateful face!
Hark The Candy Ass Population Sings-Please Don’t Take Our Sacred things!
Send our neighbors to a death camp… tie them up and give them welts!
Burn their skin go on relentless! Their pain is good when we keep things!
Waterboard them till they die, who gives a rip– it’s the other guy! Hang them from a steel post beam! But please don’t take my comfort things!
Hark The Candy Ass Population Sings-Please Don’t Take Our Sacred things!
GG–Pinpoint Bombing
susan28
Feb 21, 2008
“We’ll let you have our young aunt Sue!”
HEY!!! that’s right, give ‘em the city slicker.. so THAT’s why you let me in the compund.. run outta trinkets just give ‘em SUSAN.. i thought you just liked me cuz i had alotta meat on my bones..
Duane
Feb 22, 2008
….as Sue enters the compound Back Door Charlie says, “come here little girl I have some candy for you.”
GlenGary
Feb 22, 2008
Susan,
I’m the friendless stranger in a black sedan, won’t you hop inside my car?
Got pictures, candy, I’m a lovable man and I can take you to the nearest star…
No worries mate, just having a bit of fun.
Got another version of the song but it’s a bit radical for our keepers and some idiot
might take offense like “KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK! FBI-OPEN UP!
Sense of humors are strained these days.
GG
susan28
Feb 22, 2008
yer my vehicle bay-beeee..
Bob
Feb 22, 2008
Hey, what the f**k, over. Are you guys into the happy weed or what? Haven’t checked on things for a while. Is this some kind of new code now or what?
Maybe your all buzzed on ozone.
Bob
Feb 22, 2008
Did I say or what twice or what? Friday. Went sraight past the beer and into the Captain Morgan(of all things) after work, with no supper. What a rush!
I’VE GOT GOLD AND I JUST ATE A BIG JUICY STEAK TODAY!
susan28
Feb 23, 2008
ah, Cap’n Morgan.. he and i go way back, i knew i liked the cut o’ your jib.. what we had goin’ earlier was kind of a trekkie-Bice thing.. (by now i’m sure you know..)
Bob
Feb 23, 2008
What’s a trekkie-Bice thing? You guys are freaking me out.
susan28
Feb 23, 2008
you must be of the body to join the Clan of the Black Sedan.. Landru opens the door and Bo Bice doles out the candy, Duane built the College wherein GG lays down tha knowledge while the chauffeur puts the pedal down and rocks you 28 ways to Kingdom Cum as you roll your gold down the yellow brick road, no need to freak, take a load off..
now the eschatology, i just kinda stepped in that.. but it was all good..
Bob
Feb 23, 2008
Well, I’ve got to take some time to figure this one. Something to do with a Star Trek episode, a guy that was on American Idol, possibly a weird satanic sounding song and a philosophy revolving around the end of the world. I know it all ties together somehow but you’d save me a few brain cells if you gave me a few more hints. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, know what I mean?
Bob
Feb 25, 2008
Well I’ve got to go to work. You people gonna go nuts again?
Typical Americans. Give them some freedom, they start goofing around and the whole site goes to hell.
This is serious business, this economic collapse stuff, real serious, so take it seriously.
I’m serious. He he.
Duane
Feb 25, 2008
Gold is down a little – time to buy. When will we get someone into power that will take care of our economic problem? Something tells me that making more money and throwing dollars at our problem just isn’t working. Each congress person should be made to live on a wage from McDonalds or WalMart. Then they will be able to realise the impact of why the dollar needs to have buying power. I keep kicking the same dog – just disgusted with our leaders I guess.
Duane
Feb 26, 2008
Going to Sam’s this weekend. Wondering what wheat products are long term storage. Actually, anything that is grown from mother earth is going up in $$$ I need to pick up some long term storage items. Thoughts for my grocery list?
GlenGary
Feb 26, 2008
Hi Duane,
Whole Wheat Flour-nutrient rich for breads, pancakes, waffles and cooking-like brownies-Yum-cookies, cakes, baking soda, baking powder, yeast, then sugars, pasta’s, potato flakes, Spam-keeps for 50 years, canned hams like DAK-keep forever, canned meat if they have it like chicken thinking Avaian Flu, tuna, beef, bulk corn meal-mush is tastey and costs nothing to make, corn muffins, cornbread, dried beans, rice, powdered milk- milk must be oxygen absorbed or used within 18 months. Oats.
Cocoa, cinamon, spices of all kinds. Baking chocolate-stick it in the fridge. Shortning-again-fridge and it keeps quite awhile. Yeast too.
I use oxygen absorbers and food grade pails so this dry stuff stays good for years on end. I think $200 spend at say Survival Acres online for butter powder, cheeses, milk already packed for Long Term might be good too. The dehydrated foods and pails of bread mixes, cereals, grain mixes, veggies, fruits or Honeyville for freeze dried specials.
I picked up 25lb bags and 50lb bags of stuff that even with shipping trumped all the local places. Put it divided into buckets like 10 lbs this in a bag, 10 lbs that, 10 lbs something else so I’d have to not open ALL one thing.
One bucket I have 5 lbs Ezekeil Mix, 3 lbs Oats, 3 lbs corn meal, 3 lbs spagetti, 3 lbs maccaroni, 5 lbs whole wheat flour. I have 5 buckets total like that.
Two one gallon buckets of tea bags. Gott’a have tea!
Three more buckets are divided with stone ground flour, potato flakes and some one gallon buckets with flour only and potato flakes only-beans only. In quart Ball Jars with oxy absorbers I have navy beans, cocoa, rice, oat bran, spices, dried tomatoes. Trying to cover bases. Sugars will keep in a plastic bag forever.
Coffee keeps quite a while in a freezer. If vacuum packed in a freezer it keeps indefinitely really. That’s been my experience that at zero it really extends life. Then there is freeze dried coffee like Tasters Choice that keeps forever.
I looked at everything we eat and then tried to replace it all in buckets, jars, cans. It gets real intensive doing that. But as of the last six months the most I’ve spent for a gallon of milk is $1.49. Corn meal, 8 cents a pound. Whole wheat flour .39 cents. Oats 24 cents… all bought waaaaaay earlier. Trash bags I have a 10-15 year supply bought in 2003 just opened in Sept 07.
Folks may think this silly, but can they eat for a year or two without shopping? Wipe their buns? Wash clothes? Shave? Bathe?
GG
PS Gold maybe down but Silver will out trump gold in the markets by many times. Smaller supply-more uses.
I see silver at $24 to $27 by end of May. Just a prediction.
Landru
Feb 26, 2008
All praises be to the metals & oil market today-oil $100.87 and Silver $18.70.
$19 $19 We need $19!
$3.79 Diesel…not good enough! $3.29 Gas! Too Low! Those Whimps! Higher Higher!
We wanna see that gas at $5 a gallon for this is the promise of the Landru and
the Cult of the Black Sedan.
All Praises be to me, Landru.
(Hey Hey! What you guys doing with that rope? Now,, wa wa wait!)
Duane
Feb 26, 2008
GG
Thanks a bumch – the info was exactly what I was looking for. Now I have to equate this into the products that Sam’s sells.
Thanks
susan28
Feb 26, 2008
the Black Sedan has endless thirst, but Landru willing, please Gild us first!
GlenGary
Feb 28, 2008
Happy days are here again The skies above are clear again So let’s sing a song of cheer again Happy days are here again …
Gold presses the march toward $1,000 now at $972-4pm and Silver, you sweet little shiny darling near $20 at around $19.85. YIPPIE YI YO KI Yea Galloping all the way,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Man! This is just like stealing! Bring it on and duck people I’m about to have an explosive orgasm here!
GG
Duane
Feb 28, 2008
GG
Life is good! Just think we have just started so save your strength.
GlenGary
Feb 28, 2008
Duane,
If I could bottle and market this feeling everyone in the world would instantly be my life-long customer!
To think, no effort involved. Just sit back and watch it launch and cheer!
GG
Duane
Feb 28, 2008
One thing to remember is the value is based on our fiat dollars. So what we are seeing is the dollar deteriating as the price per once goes up. Luckly there are other countries that will recognise and trade in a heart beat.
I really feal sad for the babyboom generation (that’s me) that have saved and worked all their life for a retirement fund which will be nothing once each individual cashes it in. It anit right and it aint fair but as it has been said, “Life is not fair”.
GlenGary
Feb 29, 2008
Duane,
At $19.80 silver it is $12.74 Euro. There is one escape currency I imagine the Ruble or the Yuan or the Dinar from the UAE might be more currencies to sell metals in.
If say you needed a bit of money to buy something immediately or pay something off straight away then cashing a little metal into dollars would do no harm. It would be holding the dollars that does the harm. Right now every spare American Peso I have either hits long term supplies, ammo or into silver not wanting to hold depreciating currency.
As for what comes next for retirement savings for the baby boomers all I can say is move the money to metals even if it costs fees rather than lose about all in the end. Stop payroll deductions and buy metals instead. We did that.
I’ve learned over the years that I can count on God, my wife and my dog. That’s why I’m intense on planning for the future. At least I will be able to look back come what may and honestly say I did my best.
I don’t want to live endless “should haves or could haves” as I sit in my old age rocker.
GG
Don
Feb 29, 2008
Hi folks
Boy, a lot is happening fast, isn’t it. After seeing what is happening to gold, and oil and the Dollar, and reading your takes on it. I decided to go searching for an answer, to the question, that is on all of our minds. “How long do we have, until this train goes off the track?” Well on a site called “safehaven”, I found an article by “Randy”, that really seemed to make a lot of sense. Although I can’t truly verify every detail of this article, it sure made me glad, that I am saved. I am just an average preacher, living from paycheck to paycheck, and have “never” had enough money to buy any gold. But for as long as I have known Him, the LORD has always taken good care of me and my family.
Below is a copy of Randy’s article(as close as I could get it), and as you will see, it looks like we are all in for a wild ride. Sure enough, your gold and silver WILL get you through this rough patch, and I wish you will. But once again, let me encourage you to consider eternity. There is a rough patch, that we are all heading for, and only those who have trusted Jesus as their savior, will make it through that one.
January 24, 2008
Dollar: Faltering Foundation of US Economic Strength
by Randy
Since the end of World War II, the central foundation of US Economic Strength has rested on the US Dollar. Many of our strategic plans, geopolitical strategies, past and future wars — the entire global chess board if you will, has been played out by trying to maintain our undisputed economic power, based primarily through ownership of the World’s Reserve Currency.
SOME HISTORY ON THE US DOLLAR:
Throughout the history of the world, there have always been strong currencies, usually held by the economic powerhouses of the day. Theses currencies were primarily called Reserve Currencies. The Pound Sterling was the primary reserve currency for much of the world in the 18th and 19th centuries. But perpetual account and fiscal deficits, financed by cheap credit and unsustainable monetary and fiscal policies used to finance wars and colonial ambitions eventually led to the pound sinking (sound familiar?).
Post World-War II, the US dollar took over the sterling’s dominant position and became the world’s newest reserve currency. The Bretton Woods Accord, the first major economic transformation toward the end of World War II, established the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and a way to value the various currencies of the world relative to each other. All foreign currencies would trade in relationship to the US Dollar and only the US dollar (as the reserve currency) would be tied to a gold standard (meaning the value of dollars circulating must be backed by gold reserves).
The gold standard caused major problems in the 1960′s when France (under the London Gold Pool) called America’s bluff and demanded gold for payment of debt, rather than US dollars (they understood that we were printing more money, to finance the Vietnam conflict and fund new social programs, than we had available in gold reserves).
Due to the rapid loss of US gold reserves, President Nixon had no choice but to abolish the Bretton Woods accord in August of 1971 and he took the US dollar off the gold standard (it was $35 per ounce then; today it is > $900).
This Nixon shock of August 1971 caused a swift devaluation of the US dollar (gold doubled in price by 1972) and numerous efforts followed (by U.S. leadership) to develop a new system of international monetary management. They felt they must find another way, as currencies around the world were in turmoil and were now floating among one another…
The year 1974 provided the much needed answer. In June of 1974, Secretary of State Henry Kissinger established the US-Saudi Arabian Joint Commission on Economic Cooperation. One of the major components of this commission stated that OPEC would officially agree to sell its oil only for dollars — meaning any country purchasing oil from OPEC had to pay in U.S. dollars. This agreement enormously increased the demand for the floating dollar, as oil importing countries now had to earn or borrow dollars to pay for their oil.
OPEC oil countries were soon overflowing with petrodollars and most of them ended up recycled through accounts in London and New York banks.
Bottom Line: this 1974 act reestablished the dollar as the global monetary instrument and oil now replaced gold as basis for a strong dollar. One could say that world trade now consisted of the U.S. printing dollars and the rest of the world producing stuff that dollars can buy. Countries competed for dollars and they accumulated huge dollar reserves to sustain their own currencies.
Please allow me to shift gears a bit — we’ll get back to the dollar in a moment:
Post WWII, the US was the world’s manufacturing powerhouse, as our continent was unscathed by the ravages of war and the military industrial machine was running at maximum efficiency.
That however has changed over time, as thousands of corporations succumbed to the pressures of improving their bottom lines. Entire sectors were outsourced: U.S. Manufacturing, Steel, Technical services, Administrative call centers, Research & Technology and numerous others are now gone. Heck, you can’t even find a pair of Levis (the American Trademark) made in the good ole USA anymore.
Why is this happening you ask? It’s all related to numbers… A U.S. company can pay a worker overseas $1-2 bucks an hour to do the same job requiring $15-30 hour in the US… Either they outsource or they end up like the rest of our troubled U.S. home bound corporations (below).
Many of the home-bound US companies still trying to compete in the Global marketplace are reeling from high labor costs, pension plans, union benefits, health care costs and the like. Delphi, General Motors and Ford are prime examples of the growing trend of companies feeling the pressures. I expect to see more US corporate and worker problems in the future…
Outsourcing however did have its benefits. For many years we Americans were able to export inflation through the import of cheap manufactured goods and recycled dollars. Foreign manufacturing allowed Americans to purchase many things that otherwise they could have never afforded had they been made in the USA (e.g. $20 Jeans, $29 DVD players, $50 Microwave ovens, $60 cell phones, $100 TV’s; $200 computers, the list goes on and on). Our standard of living rose, but we eventually became a service-based economy dependant upon 1) selling each other foreign made goods and 2) foreigners recycling their excess dollars back to the US.
This foreign recycling of dollars provided Americans with low interest rates, plenty of available credit and it allowed us to live far beyond our means through cheap debt.
On the negative side, foreign governments built up huge dollar denominated holdings that they could use to secure long-term energy agreements, purchase Global assets/corporations, etc and these massive holdings realistically (it will never be admitted) tied our hands geo-politically, as foreign governments could now threaten to dump dollars into the world market as retribution for disliked policy.
Back to the dollar:
Once removed from the gold standard in 1971, the US dollar became a fiat currency (tied to nothing tangible and it was backed only by the word of the US government). The Fed Reserve Banking System could now print money at will — and they did. Take a look at the chart below and the growth in M3 money supply since 1971. This chart ends in 2006, but (in case your wondering) today’s figure is ~ $12.5 Trillion.
-SORRY, I DIDN’T KNOW HOW TO ADD THIS CHART!-
As the world’s reserve currency, the US has been able to, year after year, import goods from the rest of the world (for consumption) and pay for it with dollars that were created from nothing. These dollars are then used by foreign central banks to purchase US assets (corporations, land, properties, etc) or debt instruments from the Fed, or they amass these excess dollars to keep inflation tame within their borders, as many have their own currencies pegged to the exchange rate of the US Dollar.
It is currently estimated that foreign governments (OPEC Nations, China, Japan, India, Great Britain, Korea, Russia, etc) have amassed > $4 Trillion of US dollar holdings. China alone is sitting on > $1 Trillion (Pretty scary stuff).
Over the last several years, foreign Central banks have started to become leery with the huge debt levels, massive trade deficits and unsustainable fiscal policy of the US and they are quietly working to diversify their dollar holdings.
Rather than try to shore up foreign confidence in the dollar, Helicopter Ben Bernanke has made matters worse by officially sacrificing the dollar to save our faltering, sub-prime like, US banking/financial systems… By lowering rates at a time when the dollar is already at its weakest point in history, there is no other explanation to his actions.
Additionally, for decades now, many foreign countries have pegged their currencies to the US Dollar, but recent inflation increases, internal to their domestic economies, has become far too severe for them to handle (with the dollar peg, they have to print money as fast as we do, and it is stoking domestic inflation), therefore several countries have started a new trend of depegging. Recently, Vietnam, Qatar and Kuwait have all depegged while a host of others (Russia, and other OPEC Nations) are questioning whether or not they should do the same… When this currency de-peg happens on a larger scale (not if, but when) inflation within our borders will SCREAM. Why? Well, as they de-link from the dollar, their currencies become stronger causing our import costs to increase commensurately (e.g. Oil, consumer goods, etc)
Lastly, governments such as IRAN no longer want to accept dollars for oil. This was also the case with IRAQ back in Saddam Hussein’s day, but we all know what happened there. Anyway, the point is: There is wide-scale pressure afloat to price oil in currencies other than the depreciating US Dollar. If that happens on a larger scale, the artificial foundation for the World’s Reserve currency will be removed and all hell could break loose.
Bottom line: Demand for the World’s Reserve Currency (dollar) has been kept artificially high for many years through oil pricing agreements and US inflation was held in check by importing cheaper goods. These were both net benefits for the US in times past, but are quickly moving towards being detriments.
Closing:
The US was once an economic powerhouse who earned the right to own/maintain the World’s Reserve currency, but we’ve squandered this luxury through massive debt loads, poor foreign policy decisions, excessive monetary printing, outsourcing our industrial base, making too many future promises and by living way beyond our means.
Foreign Governments are now growing tired of subsidizing our opulent lifestyles, and the recent fact that we put the world financial system in peril by offloading our toxic securitized garbage was (I believe) one of the final straws to break the dollar’s back. In another 5-10 years, dollar hegemony will probably be a thing of the past.
With that said, I think the Fed and our government officials are already aware of this and without any real solutions to the problem (baring raising interest rates and initiating a massive depression) they have made the best choice they can.
I believe it has now become a matter of policy to hyper-inflate our financial system out of its current and future insolvency crisis.
Significant dollar devaluations (brought about by massive Fed printing/injections) will eventually allow the United States to 1) eliminate much of its foreign debt and 2) pay for future (currently un-funded) obligations.
As our standard of living drops more in-line with the rest of the world, it will (over time) become much cheaper to employ American workers again and this will bring jobs back into our borders. Eventually, our country will become competitive in the world again and we will do more than just sell each other cheaply made foreign goods–we will manufacture them.
Ultimately, I believe massive currency devaluation is our only way out…
The only wildcard I can think of is Oil. How do we survive without cheap oil?
Guess we’ll need to work out some new strategic plans and geopolitical strategies.
I’ll bet they’ll lead to:
WAR!
-That’s all of Randy’s article!-
Peace to all.
Don
Don
Feb 29, 2008
Hi again
Is it possible, that history could repeat itself? Below is part of an article by James Bovard, about a great gold robbery.
The Great Gold Robbery
By James Bovard
……No American president has rivaled Roosevelt in his denunciation of what he called “economic royalists.” He sought to “master” the “forces of selfishness” by making government master of every person’s private financial destiny. Like today, the citizen who wanted to retain control over his own life was selfish, while the bureaucrat who wanted to seize power over the citizen was automatically presumed benevolent. One of the most controversial New Deal policies was the seizure of citizens’ gold.[2] During the Great Depression, several foreign nations repudiated their promises to redeem their currencies for gold. In 1933, when Roosevelt became president, the United States had the largest gold reserves of any nation in the world. He announced on March 8, 1933, a few days after taking office, that the gold standard was safe. But three days later, he issued an executive order forbidding gold payments by banks; Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau, Jr., announced on March 11 that “the provision is aimed at those who continue to retain quantities of gold and thereby hinder the Government’s plans for a restoration of public confidence.”[3] Thus, according to Morgenthau, any limit on government power was bad for public confidence. And whatever confidence people might seek to achieve must be left in abject dependence on politicians’ latest salvation scheme.The ban on bank gold payments created widespread doubts about the Roosevelt administration’s intentions. Ogden Mills, who had served as President Herbert Hoover’s treasury secretary, observed that “it was not the maintenance of the gold standard that caused the banking panic of 1933 and the outflow of gold. . . . [I]t was the definite and growing fear that the new administration meant to do what they ultimately did—that is, abandon the gold standard.”[4] People naturally sought to get rid of their paper currency and to put their savings into something with more secure value—gold.
Roosevelt’s gold seizure was based on the doctrine that in order for government to save the people, it must be permitted to breach all the promises it made to the people. According to modern conventional wisdom, government has no obligation to do justice or treat any specific individual citizen fairly—instead, government’s only duty is to achieve “social justice” or some other abstraction perfectly suited for evasion.
GG, Do you think this could happen again?
GlenGary
Feb 29, 2008
Don
I do not think there is now enough gold in private hands in the United States to make it worth their while. From the 30′s on the public was DE-educated about metals to the point where about 1% of the population holds any at this point in time most investors unfortunately opt for gold stocks.
But, should they confiscate the old act said that coins over 60 years old were exempt and coins of historical value exempt. My gold is in never circulated 1907 French Rooster and 1921 uncirculated Swiss Francs and US St Gaudens certified graded $20 gold pieces circa before 1921. Under the old rules ALL are exempt.
Confiscate means CALL-IN at the going market prices. So if say gold was $3000 an ounce that is what you would get per ounce for affected gold.
They didn’t just steal it back then, they paid full market price.
GG
Please Don’t Steal.
The Government
Hates Competition!
Bob
Feb 29, 2008
And that’s it in a big honkin’ nutshell. All roads lead to war with much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
I’m out of here for a month or so maybe. Two weeks for sure. Got a dangerous but possibly lucrative job in a faraway place. You must accustom yourselves to life without Bob. I’m sure it won’t be a problem.
In case you never hear from me again, my last name is Loblaw and we shall meeeeeet on that beyooooutiful shoooooore.
susan28
Feb 29, 2008
take care Bob, keep it one piece eh?
Duane
Feb 29, 2008
Have a safe trip.
Don
Feb 29, 2008
Good morning everyone;
Good-by Bob, I am going to miss your great analogies, until you return. You will notice, my comment about “keeping the train on the track”, was yours. Thank you.
Duane
Feb 29, 2008
It’s 8:37AM and gold and silver are on the way to an upward direction. Wonder if today gold will hit $1000 and silver $20.
GlenGary
Feb 29, 2008
Bob,
Dangerous job? You going to Iraq or South Central La ? Take care, be safe, play nice and remember to bring us back something of a story… something to chew, rip at, gnaw on.
GG
GlenGary
Feb 29, 2008
Duane,
The $20 threshhold seems like a ton of resistance as does the psychological
aspect of gold slamming through $1,000. It will happen soon but maybe not until
next week sometime. The crystal ball is a bit foggy today.
Put this way, it mostly depends on what oil is cooking at today. Up a hair and I
think silver will hit the mark. Gold not yet… not bloody yet. This has been a
pitched fight from the beginning and it will stay that way.
Ah but I hope by May we will be wondering if silver will hit $30 by month end and
gold will break through $1,500. Hold on to THAT thought!
As gasoline tops high $3 range to $4, the metals will give a grand showing.
Vacation this year should get me used to $4 in a hurry at 2,500 miles the first trip.
Betting the roads like I-95 won’t be near as clogged as last year.
GG
GG
Duane
Feb 29, 2008
I was told that the market hit $20 then came down a little. Never did see a $1000 so I agree – next week those targets should be hit.
Sure – burn those miles. No one can afford to travel at that price but someone has made a killing on the PM and can afford to travel while other people are struggling. How do you sleep at night!
GlenGary
Mar 01, 2008
Duane,
I feel their pain Duane.
Maybe they should sell some of that FINANCED stuff that was so important to have instead of savings and investing. Think?
Here is the problem I saw in 2002, Folks were taking borrowed money at interest to buy stuff that was priced too high that was a depreciation risk during a Full Bull Market in Commodities which in and of itself signaled higher prices down the road during a time of a steadily depreciating dollar.
What A TRAP! I’m only a high school flunky and I saw that coming 100 miles away and got called STUPID more times than I can count.
When the Fed depreciates the dollar by decree to depreciate their debts by say 60% and gold hits the moon while silver hits the sun, some of the morons out there might get it. But I won’t hold my breath for that to happen.
Even as their filthy unshaved skeletal frames eat out of my trash can, maggots on their lips, they will still say I was wrong. I’ll toss them a can of Skippy Dog Food and a plastic spoon and wet nap just to show my humanity.
GG
Having trouble keeping a straight face.
susan28
Mar 01, 2008
“What A TRAP! I’m only a high school flunky and I saw that coming 100 miles away and got called STUPID more times than I can count.”
GAWD GG do i ever feel THAT pain.. but you hit it on the head: even when the evidence is in their face – even when they’re LIVING it – they STILL won’t beleive you because to do so would be to believe something nihilistic about the world, and that would just upset their little applecarts in which their whole worldview – and more importantly view of humanity – is contained. which ironically is exactly what enables the devils who do these things to operate in broad *daylight* – just don a halo (ie: speak in fluffy platitudes of “prosperity” and “security”) and folks believe anything you say, and will blame your detractors for the problems, even when their words are vindicated.
if it was about reality they’d have believed you the first time, as it was plain enough back then. unfortunately when sheeple see writing on walls, they think, “vandalism!”.
GlenGary
Mar 01, 2008
Hi Susan,
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
The sharks now smell the blood in the water and circle for the kill.
To that end, I’d rather eat than be eaten. (Ask my wife.)
GG
Sorry-couldn’t resist.
I’m an honorary lesbian.
Don
Mar 02, 2008
GG
There is something better, than having the attitude of “eat or be eaten”; And that is, “how can I prepare to feed others”, helping my fellow man!
Not only, will this be doing the right thing, but it can also make you feel good;
-To say nothing for how it “could” help your eternity!-
i.e. Even if you don’t get saved, it might make things, a little less hot.
GlenGary
Mar 02, 2008
Susan,
Here is an argument I’ve made several times to the consternation of folks around me. The dollar is now over 30%+ down since 2001. In 2001 a Euro was about 88 cents and oil in the $30 range. Today the oil is in the $100 range while the Euro is about $1.53. The US economy is oil shocked and the Europeans feel little if any of that. Stronger currency VS weaker currency and this applies to everything the Euro countries purchase. Food, energy, consumer goods.
The Dow if priced as point equals dollar, Friday’s close of 12,266 priced in 2001 dollars would be 8,587 if 1 point = one dollar. Recovery? Never really was if all things worldwide are equal.
Gold was hovering $255 in 2001, now hovers $975, but in Euros gold is priced at $637. 2001 silver hovered the mid $4 to $5 range, today we see $19.86, but again in Euros we see $12.91.
This was the effect of massive money printing by the Federal Reserve to finance massive debts. Gold and silver are telling folks what is to come in real values. They are signaling a dollar implosion as is oil and other commodities racing up in terms of US currency, but not so much in Euros and many other currencies.
Any correction our markets will now endure if based on historic corrections will go far beyond the point at which we started to create the huge imbalances especially since much of the debt creation will default. It’s like we pulled a rubber band back straining it and then let it go. It flies back about 11/2 to 21/2 times the starting point in slow motion. A law of nature. Equal and opposite reactions.
My guess is stagflation. Heavy inflation with jobs being lost, pay cuts to those working and tight credit, with no raises or job creation to power us out of stagnation.
The hospitality and healthcare industry will reverse it’s fortunes just as housing is in reverse, banking is pathetic and the auto industry struggles to stay alive. Retail will consolidate and shrink as will services. The contraction is already being seen in autos, retail and services as well as self-employment.
At some point, maybe five ten years down the road we will have cheap labor, cheap enough we again become attractive to world investors. But, I would say the next decade or more will be an absolute mother for Americans.
We will be forced to live within our means and because of overextended credit in place right now, the lowest savings rate in history, many will be forced to live far below what their income would suggest possible.
I note that bonds for student loans are drying up as home equity loans dry up as home equity itself drops and credit card companies are now picky. Basically, the Easy Button is now disabled.
An expansion I have argued for six years must be based on OUR labor output to be sustainable. It cannot be based on borrowed dollars at interest that are sent mostly overseas that power jobs abroad, power savings-investments abroad and enrich foreign treasuries.
We have called massive bleeding of resources a recovery. In this period we saw our industries not benefit for the increased spending creating new manufacturing jobs that exported hard goods. We saw contraction in manufacturing all along the way and more debt and less savings while we saw benefits and real wages decline by….drum roll,,,,, at least 30%. Back to that devalution figure.
We have a country full of distractions in near art form. From football, baseball, basketball, hockey, auto racing, movies, DVDs, reality shows, video games…. No one thinks or pays attention. Have a beer! Toke a joint. Well, it’s caught up. Reality has caught up to inattention. (Don, comes under reap what you sow.)
Blindsided. Totally blindsided.
————————————————————————————————-
Don,
The eat or be eaten was tongue in cheek. But here is my problem…. ready?
For the time period 2001 to present I have been in print in Newspapers warning folks about this scam economy and telling them to prepare, buy gold, silver, store things and resist the Devil of debt.
Now, I’m not paying for the mistakes of others if it risks my family’s ability to survive especially since the sheeple has played party-hearty while ignoring reason sort of like what happened when Moses went up the Mount to get the Commandments, came back to a fiasco. The folks now worshipping statues.
The Bible says that folks who do not work do not eat. Well, I dare say that this massive problem was created by folks taking money they did not earn and spending it and now many will not pay it back so it occurs to me that “Reap What You Sow” kicks in at some point “The Wise Man Built His House Upon A Rock” did he not? I’m not trading places with the fools.
I’ve said it before, I’ll help the poor slobs who never had a chance to begin with. But I will not help the HOGS who had all of the advantages, intellect etc and played the system like it was a joke and lost. They need their ears warmed and good.
What happens if your child gets in trouble and you bail him out over and over again? You end up with a sociopath or psychopath that thinks he is superior to all other beings and laws do not apply to him. Same thing happens with adults.
I’ve lived hard times and I didn’t have folks standing in line to cushion my fall. Quite the opposite. When I came back up folks still tried to shove me back down. Many called themselves Christians…sat in 100% judgement. They could have left me alone at least.
I leave folks alone. I don’t kick’em in the nuts. As well, I have successfully counseled many folks-no charge ever. Help them put their lives back together instead of kick’em in the nuts like many whole churches seem to do to addicts and prostitutes. The evil eye when they hit the front door.
I believe in God, but I believe God is a gentleman. You may not do as he wants you to do by free will, but at some point not doing so can make you wish you had and that is a personal thing to each of us.
I won’t let a child starve. The helpless die. But I won’t save a backstabbing viper to have it turn right around and bite me either.
Casting your pearls among swine comes to mind.
I’ll let God judge my actions and motives.
And yes, like many-most humans I’m conflicted by a Bible that says things and cancels out those said things in every other book.
You are left to how you interprete scripture and I am left to the same thing.
I have never turned away someone earnestly asking me for help. I have turned away game players that use people.
The Bible says we are allowed discernment.
I have many problems with “organized religions” because they smell of the sulfur of mob mentality. (Kill the Muslim ring a bell? Attack Iraq?) Yea, great ideas from the mouths of Christian leaders.
Sicken me to the point of puking such blanket hatred. Wanna help the clergy explain murder and war in the name of God?
If I paid attention to ministers as much as they would like me to, I could not believe in God.
GG
susan28
Mar 02, 2008
Don: i think Hell is not being able to live with yourself. conscience creates Hell, and my idea of Hell would be an eternity of being constantly aware of every negative consequence of my every action. kinda like A Christmas Caroll from, well.. Hell, hehe.. so in that respect, i think you’re right that living in harmony with conscience here would make Hell less hot.
susan28
Mar 02, 2008
yeah GG re: nation of distractions, man can’t live on consumption alone.. gotta produce some too.. like Dylan said “ya got to serve somebody”. and yep we fell asleep.. price of Liberty is eternal vigilance.. unforunately that requires forsight which usually seems like paranoia until it’s too late.. yep, they see the writing on the wall as vandlaism..
GlenGary
Mar 02, 2008
Don,
One only knows what conscience dictates at the moment of any happening. I cannot present you or anyone with what I might do given any scenario until the exact time it occurs and anything would be according to so many variables that prior calculation is impossible. Circumstance can change in a millisecond or stay the same for years. Who knows?
I could roll out of bed tomorrow, smack my head on the night stand and turn veggie right then and there, or I could win the Power Ball for $250 million and give most of it to food banks which I probably would because I’m basically happy so why do I need $250 million?
Folks who chase money life long are really chasing happiness and since to be happy is basically a decision, which I made long ago, I’m there.
We do not change what works in favor of the unknown or we just might end up far worse off. So…. I dunno what I’d do, to say that I do know is a lie.
GG
GlenGary
Mar 02, 2008
Susan,
I got my best education in Jamaica in 1993 when I was in the airport coming in and a Hershey Bar sign on the wall read $1.75. The next day I traded $100 American for Jamaican and got handed a wad of bills that made my knees weak, $2,700 was the daily exchange rate.
Jamaica imported everything except Red Stripe Beer, Blue Mountain Coffee and Jerk Sauce. Nothing to export to bring in fresh revenue, could only print and hyperinflate the currency sort of like we are doing now and this rendered the country poor with high unemployment…. no way out either.
Lesson in economics learned coupled with what I knew about Germany 1921 and The Soviet Bloc 1945-1990, add in a dash of Cuba–sealed nonproducing economies that consume far more than they produce. A recipe for poverty in any place it occurs. Even here.
GG
The Vandal
Duane
Mar 02, 2008
GG
If you so win the powerball – remember me buddy
GlenGary
Mar 03, 2008
Don,
On 9-11-2001 I went home from work and quickly penned an Editorial Letter for my local newspaper based on my beliefs. My beliefs are not dependent on circumstance or happenstance and what I heard during the day of 9-11-2001 from even so called staunch Christians… Bible Thumpers shocked me beyond all reason.
Where was their steadfast belief and trust in God? Evaporated into thin air and it angered me to the core. Where was their courage of conviction? Gone in a few hours. So much for that I thought. Easily shaken and destroyed by Satan in the blink of an eye. Fear so thick it was sickening. Fear is the domain of Satan. Courage through faith is the domain of God.
These folks had been selling a false belief.
A person’s beliefs work best when walking the talk in the hard times, the times when rocks are most likely to be thrown. Everything else is Christian Lite, the easy button. The hypocrisy role, very damaging to those looking in to see if Christians actually have any REAL beliefs set in stone as they say.
So I wrote this to try to shock folks into THINKING. Note the date.
Headline Read
document.title = “America must take swift action against terrorists, but not by taking the lives of innocent people”;Thursday, September 13, 2001
What occurred Tuesday has opened a door for America. How we go through that door will define us for this century and beyond. How do we want to be viewed?
I, as an American, want to see swift action against those responsible for this murder of innocents, as well as an increase in our ability to gather intelligence worldwide to prevent more such actions from occurring here or anywhere in the world.
What I don’t want to hear or see is hatemongering against other people based on religion, ethnic background, skin color, country of origin or any other criterion where we demonize innocent people for the actions of a very few sick idiots.
We tend to categorize people, dehumanize, irrationally hate and then destroy, as if that action could wash something clean.
Yes, the murderers must be punished. But the blood of innocents on our hands will do nothing but cause a spiral of more and more violence.
We must remember that America is a violent country where we experience school shootings, drive-by shootings and even family violence.
We have yet to come to grips with a violent nature that begets more violence and an unjust nature that tries to right injustice with worse injustice.
This time, we have to be different! If we say we are interested in human rights and freedom and justice for all, we must plant our feet carefully and walk our talk, proving we are who we say we are and what we say we are — or we are just hypocrites, and the world will have reason to hate us for that, too.
God help us if we take the wrong path.
End Article.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Kind of Prophetic wasn’t it? Look at what we’ve done Don. Look at what it has done to us in return. Near collapse of the entire nation. Trillions spent to beat a hornet’s nest with a stick and now we implode financially. We took the wrong path and all protection was removed from us and we reap what we sowed.
GG
Don
Mar 03, 2008
GG
Good point; Each individual situation, will call for a particular response. “Good” people, will do good things, as they are able to. And the Bible agrees, when it says, that we should not give to others, if it takes food out of our own family’s mouth.
I momentarily forgot my mandate: And that is, not feeding the poor, but “Pointing people to the ONLY WAY to make it out of this life, with God’s blessings.” And that isn’t by trusting in any organized religion, but by simply believing the Bible and asking Jesus to save you.
I also apologize, for “personalizing” my last comment; I don’t know anything about you, but you seem like a nice enough fellow to me. It is just that for years and years, I have been trying to get across to people, that “believing in God”, isn’t where it’s at. “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”
James 2:19
Now for a word or two, to keep Michael Hampton happy. In times like these, it seems that we should follow that old, old rule; “Don’t spend money on anything, that you can eat, shoot or wear”. That way you will be better prepared, for when the money dries up.
PS. (I came here to post this comment, and found your last entry;) I also, have had it, with “so called staunch Christians”, reacting in an ungodly way. Therefore, I have reached the point, where unless I hear from them, “The Bible says”, I stop listening. For me, the Bible settles every argument. Certainly, some will try to twist it to say what they want it to say, but if your saved and you study it, you can weed those out quickly.
GlenGary
Mar 03, 2008
Don,
As bad as it may sound to some. I trust my God, myself and my wife in that order and then those who display wisdom. It is said that there is no wisdom without patience and no patience without wisdom.
I tend to measure wisdom and value those that display it highly. I am open to be taught by the wise–always.
As for food. In this era grocery stores keep three days tops in supplies to sell. Then we are 100% dependent on trucking. If the dollar dies, trucks stop for no man will work without wages and no truck runs without fuel purchases and ample supplies.
We are at war. The military and government get the fuel first and then essential services. If we have civil unrest or are attacked/bombed, things can grind to a stop.
Katrina was the perfect example of what FEMA cannot do. Take care of one city much less multiple cities on the Gulf Coast. They had to pull National Guard from at least five states to make any showing in five days while folks were left to their own devices and many died waiting.
That was a real eye opener. Just put yourself in their shoes and think about it.
A case of MREs and bottled water would have been nice per person in a family. A gun and some ammo to keep safe. Staying in away from crazy people would have been wise. A case a piece of MRE’s for a family of four would cost $280, a few 24 packs of water say 4 around $25. $305 and your problems were 95%less than anyone else Don. Mainstay bars are even cheaper. Some have 3,700 calories so less than one a day per person would be cheap.
With dehydrated canned food or even wet pack $280 would keep a family weeks on end if done with some sense.
If the dollar tanks then food is a matter of trade of something for something so I’d rather have food stores and stay home out of sight. If I have food, water, a way to cook it and a way to stay warm, some protection and I’m there really.
The first thing that happens in an emergency is panic unless you have already planned past the initial stages before hand. Organization is key to survival.
Shift Gears.
Two summers ago at night in the dark, way out in the lake (Erie) my boat started taking on water from a broken seal in the transom. The engine ran, but the bilge pump fried as we raced toward shore water on our shoes, motor threatening to die…very scary. Frightening really. There is no time to think. Heart racing you get one chance and if you fail the Coast Guard might recover your bodies later.
While the wife held the wheel I hooked up a spare bilge pump with a hose on it and sunk it into the hull as best I could. This slowed the sinking enough for me to literally beach the boat at high speed into a muddy grassy area.
From that point I was able to pump out the boat, rig a patch-epoxy and tape, push, rock and power off of the mud and limp back to the marina by daylight hugging the coast.
For 10 years I carried that spare bilge pump in my tool box with 15′ of garden hose attached to it-alligator clamps for the battery. It was of no use for 10 seasons. But the day I needed it…… Saved our lives Don.
The spare cost me $48 in 1995. Bought it the day the boat first hit the water. Since then I have convinced other boaters to buy spares… just in case. You just never know. One minute you’re fine and the next minute a pitched struggle.
I tell folks, better to be prepared way too early than one minute too late. It could kill you.
GG
susan28
Mar 03, 2008
that was a great letter to the editor, there, Mr Vandal!
re: the apostate Christians, like the Bible said, “My name is profaned among the Gentiles because of you” ..
Duane
Mar 03, 2008
Very close. The Index is at 73 and when it hits 55 we are in total economic collapse. Still a ways to go but to damn close for my comfort level. GG – hurry up and win the Power Ball will ya.
GlenGary
Mar 03, 2008
Duana,
At around 1 am last night we got our $20 silver and now it’s holding at $20.25 and gold at $986… silver outperforming gold..goodie-goodie!
The Nikkei this morning dropped 610 points around 4.4% landing at 12,992… their exposure to us is killing them. We are the Black Plague in finances.
At around $4 for gas there is no hope. Those rebate checks will pay for gas and maybe hold the wolf from some doors a few months longer, but that’s about it. The decline of the dollar will be fed by those checks making matters worse, gas, food, utilities even higher. It was a HUGE mistake doing that. It hurts the whole way more than it could ever help. Sad, very sad the things our government does to it’s people with the mainstream media it’s loathsome cheer leaders. We get what they deserve. Unfair.
GG
GlenGary
Mar 03, 2008
Susan,
In pulpits preachers preach endlessly God’s mercy, loving and courageous Christians, wisdom, TRUST, peaceful, forgiveness, keeping the Commandments, referring to scripture when in need of direction. Faith. God will protect you from destruction. God works in mysterious ways. All things work for the glory of God. Dropped that ball instantly.
Our National sound bytes have always been of fairness, righteousness, freedom, courage in the face of enemies. Dropped that ball totally.
9-11 pointed out to me that it was all talk, noise. There was nothing there of those things. The first thing one does is who they are. The things you must stop and think about is not who you are. That is a planned response.
In a nut shell my trust was destroyed instantly based on “The first thing one does is who they are. ” It was ugly, really ugly. Destroyed a part of me.
Daniel and the lions den… not here in this place. I’d die for my faith? Nope, I’ll send kids out to die so I need not prove my faith. I’ll kill anyone or the babies and children of anyone so I’m not bothered by a test of faith. That’s what I saw and I was horribly ashamed of it all.
Once you learn something, how do you unlearn it? Once you hear things, see things, feel vulgar things, how do you ignore it? Should you?
The reality is reality. Pure unscripted reality. It is as it is and acceptance the only avenue to sanity. No one, not one person had a real gun pressed to their head. But now I know what would happen if they all did. Hell would double in population in an instant.
If all men are my brothers, how can I justify murdering my brothers preemptively? Doesn’t wash.
Ethics are not dependent on the actions of others.
GG
susan28
Mar 03, 2008
“Ethics are not dependent on the actions of others.”
great quote.. saved and cited..
Duane
Mar 03, 2008
From a quote of a recent article put out from Ronald Watson.
“At times like these, the venerable record of $50 is looked upon as an obvious target, whilst others state the inflation adjusted measure of $135. Other investors perceive a paradigm shift and see higher prices even than these with $200 for some reason being mentioned more than once. Others seeing a hyperinflationary apocalypse suggest that the price of silver will become meaningless as the dollar vaporizes before our eyes. People like to work with solid numbers, especially ones that are rounded off to the nearest tens or hundreds.”
GlenGary
Mar 04, 2008
Duane,
He didn’t really say anything. There is no substance to that.
GG
Duane
Mar 04, 2008
No – but I think what he is speculating is that silver will run. Just an opinion – I thought it was interesting but that’s me.
GlenGary
Mar 04, 2008
Duane,
Right now there are 73,000+ short position contracts out there at 5000 oz each. The shorts are nervous and trying to cover those positions buying even as the market rises. Called a Short Squeeze. They promised delivery and they have not the silver to deliver.
73,000 US contracts times 5,000 ounces equals 366 million ounces. But But But….NYMEX only has 83 million ounces on the books that can be delivered…. and worldwide mine output is under contract to silver users and only 650 million ounces are produced annually most if not all already spoken for. And this doesn’t count investors like us or silver certificates or pool accounts or ETF’s or offshore investing or governments or storage silver that may or may not exist or Mutual Fund demand or……
Think it will go up in price?
GG
GlenGary
Mar 04, 2008
Micheal Hampton… here’s a treat for Economic Collapse. Did a little more research today and it’s like WOW! Can it get any worse?
The FDIC has only $50 BILLION in funds insuring over $12 TRILLION in deposits? That ratio is 0.00417. Simply put, the FDIC has a tiny fraction of funds available to deal with saving depositors in failed banks. Wave bye bye savings account.
The ENTIRE BANKING INDUSTRY IS ESSSENTIALLY BANKRUPT at this stage in terms of being short of regulatory capital requirements in the US. What we have is a MASSIVE SOLVENCY CRISIS IN THE BANKING SYSTEM.
The Federal Reserve is dealing with this as a liquidity crisis, but it’s a core solvency crisis. Since last August 2007, the ECB (European Central Bank) and the Federal Reserve, together have poured about $2 TRILLION into loans to the banking system in exchange for impaired to worthless collateral just to keep the banking system in the US and Europe from imploding. And that’s before even a tiny fraction of the real ACTUAL LOSSES have been taken into account by the banks. Conservative estimates by UBS (Union Bank Switzerland) places these losses at around $600 BILLION and only about $120 BILLION have been accounted for so far.
It isn’t the little local banks that are of very great concern. It’s the huge money center banks that are the real issue as they are the ones that played the game of lending roulette and lost. The actual losses may be in the TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. Banks like Citibank and Bank of America, the two largest in the US, are teetering on the brink of insolvency. In the case of Citibank, they have liabilities (deposits) of over $2.2 TRILLION and their assets to cover these are shrinking daily.
Even doubling the FDIC staff to 500 or so people isn’t going to do much to deal with this massive BANK INSOLVENCY CRISIS. The FDIC doesn’t have a tiny fraction of a penny on hand for each of the dollars in deposits it insures. Nobody should have any confidence whatsoever in the FDIC as its guarantee from a practical standpoint is worthless in real dollar terms. Oh, yeah, but it’s backed by the US Government. Wow! I am so reassured that it’s backed by the Federal government that has an almost $10 TRILLION NOMINAL AGGREGATE DEBT and $50+ TRILLION IN UNFUNDED LIABILITIES according to the GAO (Government Accountability Office).
But this is America and reality doesn’t count anymore, so let’s just all be wishful and repeat over and over that America is the richest country in the world and it’s morning in America again…
We’re not in a liquidity crisis, but a SOLVENCY crisis, and there seems no solution.
Print more print more print more print more print more print more print more! Yea! That’s the ticket! Just fire up those turbo money presses 24X7 and give even more money to morons that will never pay it back! And then give them more yet!
Printing money got us here, printing more is like taking a few cases of whiskey to rehab and expecting to get sober.
But this is STILL America and reality doesn’t count anymore, so let’s just all be wishful and repeat over and over that America is the richest country in the world and it’s morning in America again… <–I’m George Bush and I approve of that fantasy! Denial friends, it’s the only way to go!
GG
Duane
Mar 04, 2008
Today is a good day to buy silver and gold.
susan28
Mar 04, 2008
i just got published on Lew Rockwell
Let It Be (thanks to the Beatles for the riff and Ron Paul for the inspiration!)
when i see the world in times of trouble,
Dr Paul, he emails me;
speaking words of wisdom,
let it be..
and when i see the tanking dollar plummet,
threat’ning our economy;
value is the answer,
let it be..
let it be, let it be, let it be, oh, let it be
freedom is the answer, let it be..
when i see the angry Muslims shouting,
so maligned on MY-t-v;
respect, it is the answer,
let ‘em be..
and when we see the broken-down drug users
in our penitentiaries
love, it is the answer,
set ‘em free..
let it be, let it be, let it be, oh let it be
freedom is the answer, let it be..
and now we ask ourselves the question,
“what has this to do with me?”
we all bear responsi-bility..
so we as Patriots must act now
to reclaim our Sovreignty;
freedom is the answer,
let it be..
let it be, let it be, let it be, YEAH, let it be!
we all know the answer,
Liberty..
(Lennon/Paul/28)
it came to me in the shower this morning
Yeah, right
Mar 05, 2008
It’s the wealthy lapping at the taxpayer trough in this Republican administration. Just like we are bailing out the big banks, but Bernanke is going to let the small ones fail and the working homeowners lose their homes. Who cares? But the U.S. taxpayer will bail out the corporate wealthy.
GlenGary
Mar 05, 2008
To Yea Right.
YEA RIGHT!!!
Why do you think the Federal Reserve was created in 1913? It was the mechanism that banks could use to rob US citizens of both their personal wealth, but their taxes as well. Works Great Too!
Nothing Federal about it, reserves it has not. It simply decides how much bankers can steal and how often. That’s why I keep telling folks that most loans over and above housing are traps and savings through precious metals short circuits the pants off of these pigs. Do what they cannot control and be better at it than them. Create your own reserves and spurn debt like the plague.
Yea, I know Ipods and cars are more fun…
Use their money against them. Borrow low-fixed, invest it in oil or gas or gold or silver and pay back slow as those things rise. Make it on the spread.
Why buy cars and consumer junk when you can make a killing in a low interest rate atmosphere? Consumer goods depreciate while metals are flying. But that’s a choice few folks make and it makes them poorer and then they cry they were used. Did it to themselves they did.
If you lose your house that might be your fault for how you run your finances. Did you put a big chunk down? Did you read the loan terms? Did you save for bad times? Those are choices. Did you calculate for inflation? Did you budget your money? More choices.
Folks make bad choices and then they cry foul just like banks make poor choices and then cry.
When I have trouble I look to see where I messed up. That way I can learn from it. Blaming others teaches me nothing.
GG
susan28
Mar 05, 2008
like the old adage goes, YR, “Democrats throw money at their problems, Republicans throw money at their friends”, but the one thing they have in common is that it’s our money they’re throwing.
GlenGary
Mar 05, 2008
Susan,
Great song idea.
I knew you had it in you even if I wasn’t the one who put it in.:) It came to you in the shower? Heheheh. Hehehehehehe…..
Voted for Mr. Paul yesterday and a friend said I wasted my vote. I told him that if I was to vote for the lesser of two to four evils I still end up with evil. Mr. Paul is not evil. Therefore most likely he had wasted his vote if he failed to vote for an honest man. A man can’t say he wants good change by voting for scum.
My county went to Bush in 04 and Hillary yesterday and it was at that point I knew for sure I was surrounded by brains that had atrophied totally and completely. Folks deserve what they get by what they do in the voting booth.
Sitting in a hot bed of job losses mostly due to Bill Clinton folks vote for the other Clinton. “Yea! Shoot us again and this time finish us off! Yea! rip our toenails out and make us eat them!”
Morons.
GG
My new car went up to $20.75 an ounce today.
Duane
Mar 05, 2008
Only one new car?
Sean
Mar 06, 2008
hey if someone can tell me some of the choices tha the U.S. government made during WWII that affected the people negatively that would be awesome?
GlenGary
Mar 07, 2008
Sean,
How about taking US Citizens and sticking them in internment camps without due process while letting their kids enlist, fight and die for America. That’s a little negative I think.
GG
john
Mar 07, 2008
It’s been fun reading you guys.Back along the way there was some mention of the Sioux.There is an old Souix saying that when you find yoursef riding a dead horse, it is best to get off and walk.
The bottom line problem is that there are too many people in the world. What is going to happen is going to happen.If you find yourself still standing after the dust clears,you will likely have to rely on your self. Be it gold silver or that bag of seeds you have in the attic. A lot of people are going to die, I hope that you guys are not among them.
I buy my gold from a guy in alaska–felixspaydirt. 80 bucks for a two pound bag of dirt. You have to pan it yourself and you will generally find more than what you paid for the dirt.
Duane
Mar 07, 2008
Question:
Deflation is a concept that is not in our cross-hairs but could be. When, “Everyday Low Prices,” start to fall wouldn’t that be a time to really stock up with groceries?
GlenGary
Mar 07, 2008
Duane,
Deflation….it’s here, went to the grocery store last night to grab a few things. Organic salad has been $3.78 a bag for two years but suddenly it adjusted to $2.58 not on sale I was told, new price. Boneless chicken boobs for a few years have been 3 lbs $5.99, then hit $6.49 and now-not on sale $3.99-new price. Reason is….. folks are cutting back and to move food before some spoils the prices needed to back up a bit. The same was true of bananas, celery, lettuce,,,, most produce.
In my area beef seems a hard sell as many grocers are now having sales and often. Ohio is a hard hit state anyway so I think we are the leading edge of what is to come all over in retail and grocery. Deflation on “some food items”.
Our dairy is lower than a lot of places as well. Picked up 15 lbs of butter a few weeks ago at $1.68 a pound. Even Lowes stores vary in price county to county based on incomes. Ours are lower than 20 miles north. So is our Penny’s store.
Right now my freezer is packed full after finding so many beef, chicken, pork sales plus fish. Last week I hit Angus Chuck Roast at $1.58 a pound and 92% lean ground beef at $2.10 if you took 10 lbs min of each. A lot cheaper than last year or even the year before if you are willing to buy in 10 lb minimums.
Folks are squeezed tight. If gas hits… WHEN gas hits $4 the real fun begins. Those rebate checks aint gonna help much of anything at $4 gas.
Yes deflation will occur and it will wipeout jobs as it does in a big squeeze between making a profit and lowering prices … vicious circle it will be.
The lower you go the more jobs and wages need cut and the more everyone cuts jobs and wages the lower the prices must go until there can never be a recovery based on that scenario alone. A race to the bottom with too many losses. That’s what buying foreign cost the United States… the best jobs, wages, benefits and economy.
One could see it coming back in the 1980′s era of union busting and the public’s hatred-bashing of union workers. They helped slit their own throats with that hatred. Hate to say I told ya so to folks, but I did.
Unreal what has passed for brains in the United States.
GG
GlenGary
Mar 08, 2008
Duane,
Come to think of it, housing prices backing up is deflation-asset deflation, stocks going lower again is asset deflation, vehicles being a rebate, special financing or it won’t sell is price-asset deflation, used cars have less value than a few years ago so that’s price-asset deflation. Boats, motorhomes…playthings are deflating in price. We also see a lot of clothing deflating.
While gasoline inflates, some food stuffs-but not all inflate, utilities inflate, base metals inflate…by reason of the dollar deflating, we are indeed in a Stagflation scene.
Almost anything mined, drilled-refined or grown from the soil seems inflationary while most manufactured goods are having trouble selling without deflating in price and therefore profit margins. Pure deflation.
So Yes, we are already seeing a heavy helping of deflation & inflation and shrinking employment which adds up to stagflation. A very deadly economic game.
I guess first the assets sink, then employment sinks, then the money becomes near worthless, then society itself implodes.
Whether it goes into chaos or not is anybody’s guess. Hope it takes a long time instead of just BANG!
GG
Duane
Mar 08, 2008
GG
I agree some things are going down in price. But the way I understand deflation to be is everyday a new lower price is presented. People don’t want to buy because they figure the price will go lower. Also, this is when silver price will crumble (manufacturing slow down) and gold will go down a little but not as fast as silver. In the long run gold will hold one afloat. At least this concept is what I read. Sounds like the really good sales have yet to happen.
I haint boobs with bones in them. It’s kinda like going out on a blind date and after heavy petting for several hours and eventually one gets lucky to explore the treasure that lies in between the thighs – only to find out you have been making out with a female impersonator. Gawd Awful :::spit spit – cough and a pow punch pop slap::::
GlenGary
Mar 08, 2008
Duane,
In less manufacturing silver should not go down. Mining will though and since most silver is the byproduct of other mining it should push it’s shortage even further in the United States.
We have to remember that the United States is not THE ECONOMY of the world, nor is it the largest net user of silver, but rather just a piece of the bigger picture. Most Americans are 100% clueless about silver right now.
China is still expanding at a double digit clip and India still is expanding and Russia isn’t hurting either. Those are the countries that LIKE silver far more than we do with populations that dwarf ours. In a dollar asset collapse silver becomes more of a darling than fiat money and stocks not less.
Just a one billion dollar silver purchase today would send silver to the $40+ range. About $52 billion buys the entire lump of above the ground silver available. That is a tiny market cap.
In the early 1980′s when our energy prices skyrocketed, employment hit the skids, Volker had raised prime interest rates to 15%, cars–consumer goods not selling is when gold and silver went ballistic. Silver loves discontent, economic upheaval, war, social unrest and inflation and deflation. Silver hates smooth sailing economies. It is a protection asset as well as an industrial metal.
Averages historically with the US CPI Calculations (officially skewed by Gov.)
1974 silver was $4.70 average equals $20.12 today,
1979 was $21.79 $55.81 Today,
1980 $16.39 average $41.98 today,
1983 $9.12 average $19.32 today,
1984 $6.69 $13.59 today average coming out of recession.
Silver pricing at the all time high of $55 adjusted to inflation $120.30.
Today far more money is in the system to chase silver and far more people on the planet to participate in the market. Big difference. 1979 there was around $1.2 trillion in US Dollars floating around in print. Today there is over 10 times that. In 1979, Chinese folks could not buy silver and Russians and Indians had no wealth to own it. Today that has all changed.
I think today’s prices are bargain basement low on both silver and gold deflation or not. With a bond market teetering, stocks deflating, realestate shrinking, oil, food worldwide a problem, a dollar tanking, the metals will have their say.
Deflation will only occur in non-essential goods. Food, fuel, etc still will climb.
GG
Duane
Mar 08, 2008
GG
Points well taken. I seem to forget it’s not all about US and that the rest of the globe is seated at the card table. Gotta go check out eBay and see if there are any good junk silver buys being offered. Thanks for helping me to refocus.
Anonymous
Mar 10, 2008
Good day to purchase gold or silver.
Pansy
Jan 26, 2010
I’m nobody and know nothing yet 9-10 years ago looked at our finances, our house payment, inflation etc.. and said this ain’t right, things are going to get bad. If we can’t sustain this lifesyle, there are a lot of people who are going to be in trouble soon. Sold the house, put up a steel metal building to live in and built the insides with our own bare hands and hard work, and started farming. We were figuring that we better be totally out of debt by 2010 because by 2012, we thought, it would be the worst. Chopping and hauling wood and shoveling goat and chicken poop is not an easy life. Funny, I don’t see how we will be any better off than anyone else when things hit worse because it is so hard not to rely on others for hay, grain, etc… And if there are hungry people, who’s going to stop them from eating my goats? I’m not going to shoot anybody to keep my food. So sometimes I wonder why bother, except maybe someone else might eat one more piece of stolen meat at the table of my dead worn from work body before they die of starvation. If it is one of you people at least thank me for all my hard work before shooting me for my last chicken. Oh, and I already forgive you.
Joseph
Mar 29, 2010
the problem is that people put into social security thinking that it was a trust fund when it was not , people in 1934 who never put in collected , now people who put in all their lives will probably never collect , especially with the new healthcare plan , did you know that that is the same plan Hitler put into effect , of course he did gun safety first and took away every ones guns , I hope Ron Paul runs in 2012 , we need someone who is a strict Constitutionalist , I know it will be hard for a while but I’m willing to make the sacrifices needed , I would have voted for him in 2008 if I had known he existed back then , the media hid him from sight , but youtube brought him to my attention,
brandon
Apr 03, 2010
2012? Lol. We already screwed up too bad, Joseph. The last hope for this country was Ron Paul in 2008. It didn’t happen in part because our media is state controlled and doesn’t want anyone getting real air time that isn’t part of the program. The U.S. is set to collapse before this mess can be thwarted. After enough SDR’s are in circulation, the China and Japan will dump out bonds in mass, countries will decline trading oil and commodities for USD, and that will be all she wrote guys.
The truth is this must happen. It’s been in the works for decades, and is a part of the globalists agenda to collapse industrial nations, and bring about a new world order. Don’t go on thinking these people are evil, either. They’re saving us from ourselves! It seems highly amoral, as millions will perish, but it’s better to have some millions and reduce our impact on the ecosystem than have billions die off further down this century. We’re already on pace for greater than 30% of the biodiversity to die off by 2100. We’re on track to reach over 400ppm of CO2 within a decade. The jig is up. We must pay our dues. It’s not going to be fun guys. I’d suggest going to the tip of South America before 2012 as I’m doing. Buenos Aires, Argentina is where I’m heading. It’ll be the least impacted place on the globe from climate change. Why you think Bush bought a 100,000 acre ranch in Paraguay?
If you want to stay in America, build a fort in the middle of nowhere, start planting crops, and create a micro community. A global community is the wave of the future. It’ll be decentralized living: food, jobs, and most resources within a quick walk.
Peace.
Mark
Apr 14, 2010
Although banks are greedy and Wall Street plunders, the fundamental cause of the
economoc chaos of today is JOB DESTRUCTION and WAGE STAGNATION. Job destruction
began in the 1960′s (around 1968) with the arrival of the THIRD INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION, i.e. microchips, computersm super-computers, robots and the Internet.
The “Ownership Class,” i.e. the plutocrats and exploitative employers are Hell-
bent on their goal of TOTAL AUTOMATION so that they don’t have to pay wages,
salaries and commissions to human beings any more. The equation is as follows:
Technology + Greed = Job Destruction + Wage Stagnation
The Middle and Lower Classes in every country in the world is being destroyed
by the greedy ownership class who want to convert themselves from millionaires to
billionaires and then to trillionaires- wrecking society as they do so. The true
unemployment rate in the U.S. today is 20%. By 2050 it will be 50% and by 2100
it will be 90%. The ironic twist of history is that governments around the world
will be forced to resort to….Communism – to prevent discontent, riots and violence. Communism, even though it is a monstrous political system, means free housing, free food, free clothing, free transportation, free schooling and free education because the Middle and Lower classes are NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY MONEY AT ALL! The Ownership Class has no intention of sharing the billions and trillions and quadrillions of dollars that they will make from TOTAL AUTOMATION with anyone but themselves! This Third Industrial Revolution is going to PUT AN END TO ALL JOBS WORKED BY HUMANS and all WAGES, SALARIES and COMMISSIONS! AND NOTHING CAN STOP IT!!
Joseph
May 03, 2010
if people took the time to see they would realize that you cannot do something wrong and not have it come back on you sooner or later to hurt not only you but all the people around you , what ought to be done to these modern day banker wallstreet pirates is what the Chinese did to the pirates that they caught back in the 90′s they executed them, cut out the cancer at the source
Abbadon
Oct 09, 2010
Since the current corrupt political parties are not willing to give up power and monetary privilege even if it means driving this country over the cliff, a wise person will be preparing for the inevitable collapse along with the associated wanton crime and balkanization which will follow the collapse! Clean water, food and shelter along with weapons to defend one’s self and loved ones will become the priorities! People will most likely form into protective groups based upon community or ideological factors. This will be necessary in order to survive since a lone person or family will be easy prey for those who will be marauding and pillaging for food and/or supplies. Things will most likely become somewhat medieval as food supplies and shelter become scarce. Murder and rape will become widespread, thus the formation of heavily armed, unified groups will be necessary for survival, post collapse! Whether we will ever rise up again as a unified nation is a question only God Most High knows the answer to? The sad thing about it is that this did not and should never have even been a possibility! Unfortunately because of the self destructive arrogance and greed for power and money which the political entities nowadays are ever striving for regardless of the inherent harm to the future of this country we now find ourselves on the brink! These politicians who because of their own suicidal Socialist ideology or just a plain idiopathic disregard for all others at the behest of only themselves need to be at the least, swept out of power then depending upon motive subsequently brought up on charges, because of the damage and outright thievery from the American people which they engaged in! Somehow, assuming we survive intact as a country, we need to elect leaders who are God fearing, decent, moral people who are not socialist/communist or professional politicians and lawyers, people who care about this country and it’s citizens rather than lining their pockets and garnering personal power! Tall order nowadays? Get ready and God help us all!
Scouse_Eddie
Oct 24, 2010
Hasnt anyone noticed the contradictions in nearly all of these posts? the majority claim that the global elite of bankers and politicians etc have orchastrated the financial collapse to gain more wealth and power, yet, in the near future the US is going to plunge into chaos and collapse and everyone will be growing their own food, and defending their land from crazed armed rapists out to take their food? SO where are all the rich? all the people who made money from the collapse? the people in power dont want the world to revert to caveman times, how does that help them? what fun is it being a billionaire, if your value is in dollars? of your property and land is say for example in Manhattan? if the US collapses, not going to be much fun going to your penthouse in new york if there isnt any water or power an the city is a hell hole of rapists and food scavangers? it just doesnt make sense. There is one constant throughout history! the rich look after themselves, and the rich will keep the status quo, because they have a vested interest in it. Just like all the oil companies already have the next line of energy technology ready to roll out once the oil runs out, keeping the status quo, keeping the wealth and keeping the power, is all the care about, a collapse of the proportions discussed woud not serve them, so it will not happen. I recently drove across the US for a month in june 2010 with my girlfriend, we started in New York, went right down the east coast to Miami, back up and then right across west, and in all the places we visisted, Washington, Miami, Vegas, L.A, even New Orleans! America was pretty impressive, and looked in fine health to me! am sure the US will be fine, I predict a currency war, followed by trade protectionism, followed by a minor international conflict, followed by reforms of currency valuations, most probably more power to the IMF, reduced living standards for the majority in the west, but a re-birth in jobs and econmic development within 10-15 years, based on a ‘green’ economy. things will be fine, this is not the end of days! because the rich wont let it happen! and as for the predictions of doom, I would not worry about it, people are inherently good, why everyone assumes we’d all turn in to canabalistic rapists a few weeks after the electric goes, its a tad short sighted, in times of crisis, people band together, help each other, and work together, that is what would happen! So chill out, lock the guns away, and try to be a bit more positive, these things are cyclical, they have happened before, they have to happen every 30 years or so, its not the end of the world, so go out, have a drink, enjoy yourselves! life is as they say too short! peace and love! You’ll never walk alone!
RW113
Jul 26, 2011
What everyone seems to overlook is that over the past decade, our elected officials are transferring wealth to their interests overseas. They know they are collapsing the USA, and are setting themselves up to be Elitists in what is to come. Time to rid the USA of these traitors, and revamp our nation as the Greatest Nation on Earth.