Comments on: “Life in the surveillance state” http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/ Protect yourself from government gaffes, bureaucratic blunders and incumbent incompetence Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:25:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: FBI launches criminal probe into national security letter misuse - Homeland Stupidityhttp://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/#comment-50358 FBI launches criminal probe into national security letter misuse - Homeland Stupidity Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:40:00 +0000 http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/#comment-50358 [...] the FBI repeatedly failed to follow the law and procedure when using national security letters and exigent letters, a related investigative tool. And an audit released in June found over 1,000 violations in the [...] [...] the FBI repeatedly failed to follow the law and procedure when using national security letters and exigent letters, a related investigative tool. And an audit released in June found over 1,000 violations in the [...]

]]> By: Gonzales told about national security letter violations - Homeland Stupidityhttp://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/#comment-49844 Gonzales told about national security letter violations - Homeland Stupidity Thu, 12 Jul 2007 05:46:40 +0000 http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/#comment-49844 [...] FBI documents released this week also include more than 60 exigent letters, which the FBI used to request telephone and Internet records, that failed to comply with relevant [...] [...] FBI documents released this week also include more than 60 exigent letters, which the FBI used to request telephone and Internet records, that failed to comply with relevant [...]

]]> By: forstandhttp://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/#comment-38262 forstand Tue, 27 Mar 2007 17:29:56 +0000 http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/#comment-38262 As a young pup I took a college class in psychology and my term paper dealt with 'cognitive consonance and dissonance' which describes Verbos' statement about people blocking out things that they don't like. Verbos is quite correct. As a young pup I took a college class in psychology and my term paper dealt with ‘cognitive consonance and dissonance’ which describes Verbos’ statement about people blocking out things that they don’t like. Verbos is quite correct.

]]> By: gerihttp://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/#comment-38261 geri Tue, 27 Mar 2007 17:28:06 +0000 http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/#comment-38261 Sorry, the above commment is by me...not Verbos. Don't know why it did that. Sorry, the above commment is by me…not Verbos. Don’t know why it did that.

]]> By: Verboshttp://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/#comment-38260 Verbos Tue, 27 Mar 2007 17:25:45 +0000 http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/#comment-38260 I read on Yahoo news where the FBI director is declaring that 'we (the FBI) can use those letters appropriately'. Not an exact quote I don't think but close enough. Of course they CAN use them appropriately. When the power was given to them they were ENTRUSTED to use that power appropriately. But they DIDN'T and should be held accountable for it. That's what I tell my kids when they mess up and I have to apply a consequence to their actions. They tell me 'Please, Mom. I can do it right' or 'I won't do it again' but the consequences still stick. If I tell my kids that this is the way the world works, you do something wrong, abuse a trust given you, and then you have to accept the consequence that goes with that abuse than I want to see people who are NOT 8 or 10 years old following along that principle to. That's how it's supposed to work. That's what we teach our kids to expect. And if my kids can understand this better than the head of the FBI, we have a real problem. I read on Yahoo news where the FBI director is declaring that ‘we (the FBI) can use those letters appropriately’. Not an exact quote I don’t think but close enough.
Of course they CAN use them appropriately. When the power was given to them they were ENTRUSTED to use that power appropriately. But they DIDN’T and should be held accountable for it.
That’s what I tell my kids when they mess up and I have to apply a consequence to their actions. They tell me ‘Please, Mom. I can do it right’ or ‘I won’t do it again’ but the consequences still stick.
If I tell my kids that this is the way the world works, you do something wrong, abuse a trust given you, and then you have to accept the consequence that goes with that abuse than I want to see people who are NOT 8 or 10 years old following along that principle to. That’s how it’s supposed to work. That’s what we teach our kids to expect. And if my kids can understand this better than the head of the FBI, we have a real problem.

]]> By: Verboshttp://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/#comment-38256 Verbos Tue, 27 Mar 2007 16:46:36 +0000 http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/#comment-38256 One of the problems we face in fighting these issues is public apathy. Some people block out things they don't like and pretend they don't exist. But there are others who believe their "Ends justify their Means". These people lack integrity and are fare the worst. Many people have this attitude and don't even recognize it. What will you do to keep your job? I personally worked in service industries where the ones who follow company policy rose to the top. I kept my position because if they fired me, my customers would find me again. They knew that I was there to serve them first. How much integrity do you have? Please give this some thought. Those who promote lies and theft don't deserve liberty and will loose it for us all. One of the problems we face in fighting these issues is public apathy. Some people block out things they don’t like and pretend they don’t exist. But there are others who believe their “Ends justify their Means”. These people lack integrity and are fare the worst. Many people have this attitude and don’t even recognize it. What will you do to keep your job? I personally worked in service industries where the ones who follow company policy rose to the top. I kept my position because if they fired me, my customers would find me again. They knew that I was there to serve them first. How much integrity do you have? Please give this some thought. Those who promote lies and theft don’t deserve liberty and will loose it for us all.

]]> By: Dochttp://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/#comment-38247 Doc Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:19:21 +0000 http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/03/27/life-in-the-surveillance-state/#comment-38247 A truly frightening tale. The challenge here is to hide investigations from bad guys who wish to do us harm. To do that - it's understood that some requests for information must be secret for the period of the investigation.However, according to your report, Mr. Christian was told he could NEVER talk about it - even though the Gov't didn't need his records! I guess the interesting thing is I don't blame the FBI for this - if my job was to secure the country, and I had a tool like national security letters, I'd use it too.This cannot continue. I don't see why a court can't have access to classified information, and a person who is served these letters be able to fight them in court. If nothing else, the letters should be tied to an investigation of a committed or intended Islamofascist attack, and be public after the investigation concludes. I guess the interesting thing is I don't blame the FBI for this - if my job was to secure the country, and I had a tool like national security letters, I'd use it too.But this gets to the real problem, Michael. We do not have a declared war against a named enemy. If we did, the Gov't would rightly have the ability to prosecute the war, at home and abroad. NSLs could only be issued to identify and capture (not arrest and convict) the enemy, or treasonous persons providing "aid and comfort", per the Constitution.Instead, we have a situation where the Gov't is fighting the "War on Terror", which means ANY violent (or potentially violent!!) asymmetric threat. That definition gives too much latitude to security and law enforcement to determine threats, and to see the people they serve as potential enemies of the state. Ultimately, this is our failure as Americans - to hold our Congress accountable to the Constitution. A truly frightening tale. The challenge here is to hide investigations from bad guys who wish to do us harm. To do that – it’s understood that some requests for information must be secret for the period of the investigation.

However, according to your report, Mr. Christian was told he could NEVER talk about it – even though the Gov’t didn’t need his records! I guess the interesting thing is I don’t blame the FBI for this – if my job was to secure the country, and I had a tool like national security letters, I’d use it too.

This cannot continue. I don’t see why a court can’t have access to classified information, and a person who is served these letters be able to fight them in court. If nothing else, the letters should be tied to an investigation of a committed or intended Islamofascist attack, and be public after the investigation concludes. I guess the interesting thing is I don’t blame the FBI for this – if my job was to secure the country, and I had a tool like national security letters, I’d use it too.

But this gets to the real problem, Michael. We do not have a declared war against a named enemy. If we did, the Gov’t would rightly have the ability to prosecute the war, at home and abroad. NSLs could only be issued to identify and capture (not arrest and convict) the enemy, or treasonous persons providing “aid and comfort”, per the Constitution.

Instead, we have a situation where the Gov’t is fighting the “War on Terror”, which means ANY violent (or potentially violent!!) asymmetric threat. That definition gives too much latitude to security and law enforcement to determine threats, and to see the people they serve as potential enemies of the state. Ultimately, this is our failure as Americans – to hold our Congress accountable to the Constitution.

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