Two proposals being floated around Capitol Hill call for the Social Security card to be updated with biometric information and for U.S. employers to be required to verify it with the Department of Homeland Security when hiring.
Scared yet? You should be. While everyone was off fighting the REAL ID battle, national identification proponents were sneaking in the back door, arguing that the Social Security card should be updated with the latest technology to prevent illegal immigrants from working.
Under the so-called Bonner Plan, citizens and resident aliens alike would have to obtain a new Social Security card containing their photograph, a barcode or magnetic stripe containing an encrypted signature verifiable through card readers provided by the Department of Homeland Security, and would have to present this card in order to obtain work. The plan provides that employers who fail to verify the card face fines, prison time, and would be billed for the cost of deporting any illegal aliens they may have hired.
Of course, they’re still claiming that the card wouldn’t be a national ID card. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it certainly isn’t a sheep.
There are also logistical problems to overcome before forcing all of the nation’s employers to verify a biometric card — given the nation has millions of employers, many of whom may not have computer equipment at all.
“This is an exact example of why IDs are so ludicrous as a form of security,” American Civil Liberties Union legislative counsel Tim Sparapani said. “Do we really think the migrant workers are going to show up at the pickle farm and the farmer is going to demand ID and have a laptop in the field to check their ID?”
That’s one of the problems that Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-California), who heads a key House immigration subcommittee, says she’s thinking about.
“There seems to be a fairly strong sentiment that there needs to be an easy way to reliably enforce whatever rules we adopt and the biometric is something being discussed in all the House bills,” Lofgren told Wired News. “Obviously every small business isn’t going to have a biometric card reader, but perhaps the post office might have a reader since every community in America has a post office.” — Wired News
The Social Security card was originally issued specifically in connection with Social Security, a questionable New Deal program which resembles nothing more than a Ponzi scheme and is near collapse. Since government always tends to expand if not kept in check, it’s become virtually required in all aspects of daily life. It’s not yet required that anyone have one — unless he wants a bank account, a job, or government services. To survive without one, you’d better be Amish, or at least prepared to endure a lot of pain.
The Social Security card has therefore become a de facto national ID, and requirements for private individuals to verify it would make it a national ID, despite any protestation or policy statement to the contrary.
Speaking of requirements, the so-called Strive Act is gaining traction. It would require employers to submit all the personal information of all their new hires to the Department of Homeland Security for verification. Anyone whose verification fails would have to be fired if they were unable to correct their records. DHS is currently testing the verification system, known as Basic Pilot, and has lobbied Congress to fund and mandate it.
So, everyone has to have a national ID card in order to get work, because we have to be tough on those illegal immigrants! They’re bogging down the welfare system! Oh, wait, then why are they working at actual jobs?
Of course, we all know that illegal immigrants are coming here to work. Some people think that’s wrong. They claim that people should come here legally, not realizing that the legal paths for people to come here have been constricted or closed entirely, thus causing the “problem.”
The alternative, which will come to pass if these proposals go forward, is that many illegal immigrants currently here will go on welfare, more of the U.S. economy will move underground, out of the prying eyes of DHS and the Internal Revenue Service, dramatically expanding the “black” (free) markets, and we’ll all be tagged with a national ID card that we have to have in order to participate in the “white” (non-free) economy.
(No Ratings Yet)
Loading ...
Join the members of the Liberty Conspiracy as they discuss issues ranging from the "Incorporation Doctrine" and gun rights, to the NBA, to protests conducted at military funerals, protests that are being challenged by government, and which will be heard by the philosopher kings in the U.S. Supreme Court.
When neoconservative Ben Stein accused Congressman Ron Paul of being antisemitic for merely wanting to ask WHY Islamic terrorists want to attack the civilians living under western governments that have meddled in the Mideast, the members of the Conspiracy could not sit by silently.
Except where otherwise noted, content on this site is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works license.
Video published by this site is licensed under a Creative Commons Sampling+ license.
Facebook
Digg
del.icio.us
reddit.com
Newsvine
Doc
May 17, 2007
Michael,
You make a lot of sense, as usual. However, I do take exception to your supposition that illegal aliens are not “bogging down the welfare system”. I concur that traditional welfare (Aid to Families with Dependent Children, or AFDC) is not nearly as used by illegals as those opposed to illegal immigration would have you think.
The cost is in other social services and municipal activities. Illegal aliens are often paid very low wages and do menial tasks that would not pay high wages even were their immigration status changed. As such, they often clog emergency rooms looking for medicaid-reimbursed healthcare, create significant drains on police and emergency services, and qualify for the Earned Income Tax Credit offered by the Federal Government and many states to low-income workers. The Heritage Foundation did an excellent study on this recently – I’ll try and find the link.
We can – and should- have a real, agenda- and name-calling-free discussion about immigration in this country. But lets lay all of the cards on the table. One thing is for sure – America needs to get a grip on who is here, who needs to go, and how to regain the lost concept of Lady Liberty’s “Shining lamp beside the golden door”.
ddhorton
May 17, 2007
MICHAEL, YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT (SS)CARD BEING THE DE-FACTO NATIONAL ID, BUT IT HAS BEEN SINCE I BELIEVE AROUND 1976, WHEN THE LAW WAS PASSED THAT STATES WERE REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A COPY OF THE (SS)CARD IN ORDER TO ISSUE A DRIVERS LICENSE, SOME STATES EVEN PRINTED THE NUMBER ON THEIR LICENSE. WE MUST REALIZE THAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVING UP OUR IDENTITY EVER SINSE WE GAVE UP OUR SIGNITURE, WHICH IS THE EASIEST TO FORGE, YET WE SO FREELY DELIVER IT TO ANYONE, OUR SIGNITURE EVEN BRINGS MONEY IF WE GET ANY RECOGNITION NO MATTER WHAT WE DO. SO WHY IS IT SO HARD FOR US TO REALIZE IF OUR FINGER PRINT, OR IRRIS SCAN WAS ATTACHED TO THAT SIGNITURE THAT WE SO FREELY GIVE, WOULD NOT STOP THIS ABUSE OF IDENTITY THEFT.
WE NEED LESS LAWS, LETS PUT A ID SYSTEM IN PLACE THAT CURES ALL THE LEGAL PROBLEMS,THIS ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION IS A SMOKE SCREEN, FOR INDIVIDUALS THAT DON`T WANT TO BE IDENTIFIED, MAYBE THEY OWE TO MUCH IN BACK TAXES, OR DODGING WHAT EVER!!!
I WANT MY CIVIL LIBERTIES TO BE PROTECTED, AND THAT MEANS THAT MY SIGNITURE IS “FIRST” WE FORGET WHAT IS IMPORTANT WHEN “SMOKE SCREEN ISSUES” BECOME FRONT PAGE.
Michael Hampton
May 17, 2007
Um, if an illegal immigrant is getting the earned income tax credit, doesn’t that mean he’s filing a tax return and so forth?
Verbos
May 17, 2007
The reason for screening immigrants who come to America is to help insure that each will have a positive impact on our economy and culture. That said, the number of immigrants must also be controlled. Those who subvert this process are not the type we need. Unless you are an American Indian, your ancestors came from somewhere else. America was built on immigration. However, history shows that it must be carefully regulated or enormous cultural and economic issues will tear at the fabric of our nation.
Michael Hampton
May 17, 2007
Where does history show that? I keep hearing that, but it’s the same line people have been saying for a hundred years to keep out the Irish or the Italians or the Poles or any other set of immigrants.
Verbos
May 17, 2007
On the issue of the SS#; The whole system was almost shot down in the begin because of the implication of a national ID. It was only passed on the assurance that it could only be used for tax purposes and never ever used for ID.
Verbos
May 17, 2007
Before the Civil War an influx of Irish immigrants caused havoc on America. I am of American Indian and Irish decent. But too many at once lead to upheaval in our country. They could speak English well enough, were hard workers and held similar religious convictions, so it was mostly the numbers. I’m not writing a book but currently, Muslims are causing problems where they have immigrated mainly because they do not believe in separation of Church and State. I’m sure if you try you can find many others.
Michael Hampton
May 17, 2007
Bear with me because I went to an inner city public school in the South, and so my, er, education is probably lacking.
What is this antebellum Irish immigrant upheaval you speak of?
Who are the Muslims who don’t support separation of church and state? Do you mean to say that all of them have this belief? Or just a few wackos?
Doc
May 17, 2007
Ref: comment #3:
Yes, but they file under a Taxpayer ID Number, not their own SS#. The IRS will take your money – they couldn’t care less if you are illegal or not – but in the case of the EITC, the IRS actually gives you back MORE than you put in. that’s not PAYING taxes, that’s TAKING other taxpayers’ money.
Again – not saying we don’t have a problem that needs fixing, but we need to be clear about the facts. On the other side of the fact ledger, there is a historical precendent for allowing low-skill workers into our country – and their descendants become well educated, middle-class americans.
ddhorton
May 17, 2007
MICHAEL,DEPENDS ON WHO`S (SS)NUMBER THEY ARE USING,IF THEY ARE “ILLEGAL” IT SURE IS NOT THEIRS,-FILING WHAT??????? UM, SOME KIND OF TAX RETURN. WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS GET THOSE CITIZENS THAT HIDE UNDER THE CARPET TO FILE, EVERY RAID THAT ICE DOES INCLUDING THE ONE ON SWIFT MEAT, BUT A MUCH BIGGER FISH WAS “IFCO” THEIR IS ALWAYS A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS THAT LIKE THE SSN(000-000-00000)AND THESE ARE US CITIZENS. MUST BE THEY FORGOT THEIR NUMBER, I BELIEVE THAT THE FLAT TAX ISSUE IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE ON TOP OF THE AGENDA, BUT BACK TO THOSE THAT HOLD HIGHER POSITIONS, AND DON`T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. SO WE MUST REMBER THAT THE REAL-ID HAS TO ESTABLISH THE GROUND WORK FOR SOCIAL SECURITY, IMMAGRATION ECT. BUT WHAT IF WE COULD GET EVERYONE TO PAY HIS FARE SHARE,
‘”BY CERTIFYING THE AUTHENICITY OF OUR OWN IDENTITY, SO NO OTHER INDIVIDUAL CAN USE IT, WE ARE ALSO CERTFYING THE IDENTITY OF EVERYONE ELSE AROUND US” THIS WAY WE CREATE A FARE TAX, BY EVERYONE HAVING TO PAY, BECAUSE THEY ARE ID`D. AND CAN`T HIDE IN THE SYSTEM. THE DATE THE LAW WAS PASSED WAS IN 1976 TAX REFORM ACT PL-94-455 THUS REQUIRING THE STATES TO DEMAND THE SSN, THUS MAKING T
ddhorton
May 17, 2007
TO FINISH WHAT I WAS SAYING ABOVE WAS,(THUS MAKING THEM PART AND PARTY TO EACH OTHER THROUGH THE LAW, SO BEFORE THE DRIVES LICENSE CAN BE RETROFITTED, TO THE REAL-ID LAWS, SUCH AS IDENTIFYING THE INDIVIDUAL THROUGH THE SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM, THATS LIKE PLAYING COWBOYS AND INDIANS,OR IN OTHER WORDS WHOSE ON 2ND BASE, HE SAID SHE SAID WOULD MAKE IT EASIER,ANYWAY I JUST WANT TO BE THE “NOTARY”GOOD NIGHT MICHAEL WHERE EVER YOU ARE!
geri
May 17, 2007
DD, Dude, please turn off the caps lock. My eyeballs are bleeding.
SSN or Drivers License, a national ID with biometric info is not a good idea. A government that has shown that they cannot be trusted with our information should not be given MORE information. The fact that they are threatening (though I’m sure they would say they were not) our jobs, etc. if we don’t fall in line and get one is pure Bullying.
Not only that but DHS has proven that it is unreliable and so is their information. Even someone who has the card “legally” (in whatever form) is liable to come up on their records as illigal. It’s happened before, it will happen again.
A bad idea and a waste of taxpayer’s money. Of course those are the bills that our government is really, really good at passing.
miche
May 17, 2007
Two things:
Comment 1: You have to get to the root of the problem and that is income redistribution. Legal status of the person using the hospital service doesn’t matter. Many community hospitals are partially funded by property taxes and those are paid through rent or direct ownership.
Comment 9: You must have a valid SS# to receive the EITC.
miche
May 17, 2007
Two things:
Comment 1: You have to get to the root of the problem and that is income redistribution. Legal status of the person using the hospital service doesn’t matter. Many community hospitals are partially funded by property taxes and those are paid through rent or direct ownership.
Comment 9: You must have a valid SS# to receive the EITC.
source
miche
May 17, 2007
sorry about the double post
Michael Hampton
May 17, 2007
You mean the triple post? :) Don’t worry too much about it.
djones
May 17, 2007
I agree!!! We need to be prepared either to sign up and jump in or fend for ourselves!!! The government will be nowhere around when you really need them!! Know your history, history repeats itself. Ask the American Indian how trustworthy ouIf you are serious about refusing to accept the National ID, then now is the time to get started in creating such a back lash, the thousands of lawmakers in the 50 state legislatures will feel the heat and stand up to the feds. This is a major, critical fight and an important tool for totalitarian government we must defeat. Sticking one’s head in the boob tube watching some sporting event or going to the mall will not make the truth go away, it will only further the efforts of those out to destroy this republic. Freedom is every American’s duty and responsibility. Those who birthed this republic and their families spilled thousands of gallons of blood on the battlefield so we could be free. Those freedoms are being torn from us at a rapid rate and it is your responsibility to join the growing millions of Americans who refuse to surrender our rights and our nation to a one world totalitarian government. government is!!What does this mean from a constitutional position? It means that the government can bribe the states, they can threaten them, but in fact, the states cannot be forced to get down on their knees to the federal government. In other words, no state of the Union has to comply with the National ID.In order to squash any rebellion, Congress then mandated that any any citizen who refuses this National ID will be prohibited from flying on commercial flights, entering any government building or opening a bank account. “Where are the churches in this country?” Why are they not warning their flocks that the Mark of the Beast is just over the horizon? WAKE UP!!!!! Don’t be just another sheeple!!
Anthony B Pugh
May 18, 2007
If there is any costs imposed upon society by illegal immigrants it certainly is far outweighed by the economic benefit they provide. People keep talking about how illegals are clogging up the hospitals and using welfare but I have yet to see this supported by any actual numbers.
miche
May 18, 2007
As the wife of a practicing physician, I agree with A. Pugh. My husband is a hospitalist (Internal Med) at a private hospital and he treats patients regardless of legal/insured status. Substitute unwed young mother for illegal immigrant; it is the same issue and that’s why I think I correctly call it a problem of wealth redistribution.
A deadbeat is a deadbeat.
Verbos
May 18, 2007
Of course most of you are ignoring djones. And I’m sure your also in denial that a large percentage of the prison population is illegal immigrants not arrested for immigration status but felonies.
miche
May 18, 2007
Verbos,
You’re kidding right? The DOJ has report on prison inmate demographics.
From the same page: About 4% of State prison inmates were not U.S. citizens at yearend 2001.
Fixer
May 18, 2007
Not sure about the whole “one-world-government-mark-of-the-beast” argument. Makes it difficult to maintain credibility.
In reference to illegals in prison, I have seen some Bureau of Justice statistics that indicate that illegals constitute upwards of 30% of the prison population. It stands to reason, however, that they are there for other than immigration violations. Most illegals (90%+) choose voluntary deportation which does not even require a hearing, much less incarceration.
Aside from all that, I submit that the national ID proposal is more far-reaching. The immigration argument is just a red herring.
Barry Tighe
May 19, 2007
From the Author
I hope you do not mind me posting you. I tried to email at homelandsecurity at hotmail.com but could not get through.
Dear all at Homeland Stupidity,
As someone who is concerned about Big Brother and government control, you may be interested in a new book on the subject. Identity Cards, volume Two of The Spawater Chronicles by Barry Tighe.
Fiction, it shows what happens when a concerned group of ordinary people decide to fight back against the imposition of identity cards and the Big Brother state.
‘Identity Cards’.
A frightened government has decided to force the entire population to carry Identification Cards at all times. As a trial they introduce them to Spawater. Should the ID cards and their controlling National Database be successfully implemented in Spawater they will be imposed nationwide. Book two of the seven-part Spawater Chronicles recounts the effects of ID cards on the town.
Joanna opposes them on principle and joins the National Campaign against Identity Cards, Jady is also against, but sees in them an excellent moneymaking opportunity.
Hanif, the computer expert, supports them and is employed to run the local trial by the senior civil servant, Mr. Dauntliffe, thus causing friction in the gang’s social lives.
Michael, a good-natured Austrian – Germany lite – master criminal, sees ID cards as the perfect cover to commit an audacious crime in the middle of town, under the noses of Police Inspector Brewe and her disloyal assistant.
Can the Masked Pimpernel, that anonymous campaigner against nosey government control freaks, save the day?
Identity Cards is available in the US from:
- giving further details.
Identity Cards is available in the UK from:
and
- giving further details
If you have any comments, please send them to:
Tom
May 20, 2007
My SS ID card states clearly “Not for identification purposes”.
ddhorton
May 21, 2007
My SS ID card states clearly “Not for identification purposesâ€. HOW COULD IT ANYWAY, NO PICTURE NO FINGERPRINT, NO IRIS SCAN NOT EVEN YOUR BLOOD TYPE, THIS CARD WAS SET UP TO BE A TEMP. LIKE YOUR DRIVERS LIC. TEMP. NO ONE WANTED YOU TO USE IT FOR ANY THING ELSE, IT WAS A TEMPORARY CARD FOR A TEMPORARY SERVICE. THERE IS NO WAY FOR ANYONE TO CERTIFY THE SSN WITH THE INDIVIDUAL THAT CLAIMS ITS THEIRS.
ddhorton
May 21, 2007
GERI, Against or for is not the issue the Law is in place, and the vote was almost unanimous, but saying that, let me go further and explain why I believe that at the end to all this madness, we the people will benefit from this Bill, before a REAL-ID card will ever be issued, and it will be one that even you will applaud.
The reason that the REAL ID Act explicitly identifies the drivers licenses was mostly based on the 9/11 Commission Report that identified them as being used as the ID by the terrorist when boarding the planes. Actually since 1976 after the Tax Reform Act (P.L.94-455) making the(SSN) a requirement by the states for applicants to furnish was meant that (17) of the terrorist that acquired a drivers license had to submit a federal (SSN) first. Of coarse The 9/11 Commission would not have researched the above bill before writing their report but it seems that whom ever wrote this bill should have emphasized that issue on social security making it the primary concern. Matter of fact ever since 1962 when the Internal Revenue Services adopted the (SSN) as its official Taxpayer Identification Number, congress gradually allowed it to became the national (De-facto ID) even though they constantly disputed that claim. But every few years there after, other federal and state agencies including all financial organizations followed suite and joined in the long trail of revisions that allowed them to utilize its identity certification. Where as today you can`t even get your utilities or phone turned on without giving your (SSN). Further proof of its de-facto ID statist has been obvious such as bank accounts, rental agreements, utilities ,matter of fact you can not get any kind of an contractual agreement without being required to give your social security number. This federal identification card and number that identifies our personal retirement portfolio has become the most abused, misused and stolen identification instrument we own and the easiest to falsify. The reason the government can`t authorize its use as a Federal ID or any type of ID as they have constantly claimed it is not a ID, is very simple and that is they can`t certify the identity themselves. Furthermore the 9/11 Commission Report stated that all instruments used for identification had to be retrofitted to fit the Nation Security standards.
The Social Security Administration that over sees the ID system does not have the ability to identify the individuals that they have on file, without a picture, finger print, iris scan or any means of identifying any of the individuals. The federal government must first secure the social security identification system before they can require the states to retrofit their drivers licenses as well as other documentation because by law the ( ssn ) it is part and party to the Drivers License application .
That is why the federal government has no choice but to implement the Real ID Act with a new, state of the art ID System that cannot be duplicated, stolen, or counterfeited, and this can only be done by biometric imaging data of each individual to be able to secure our personal identity. The combination of fingerprints, iris scans and other imaging identifiers will fully secure and certify an individual’s identity and truly protect us. The reason there is so much negativeness regarding the REAL-ID ACT is because it unravels our entire identification systems, which none are adequate, and no one in congress wants to tackle that nest of bees. But this BILL THE REAL ID ACT IS GOING TO BE THE KEY THAT WILL OPEN PANDORAS BOX !
geri
May 22, 2007
Nope, still dont want it. And I don’t care how carefully you make the ID someone…somehow, some way…is going to find a way to falsify it and make it as good as the original.
And identity theft isn’t going to get better because of it either.
And the Government will just lose more personal info than they do now. And they will screw up the info they have (something they already do)and make people’s lives a living hell.
The Real ID is the key to Pandora’s Box alright and the government is insisting on opening it.
Tim
May 24, 2007
I think current un-enforced laws need to be stiffened and basic simple laws enforced. I’m as white as they come yet to get a job at all the companies I have been employeed, I needed a SS card.(and number) I give it out; you’re right because I have too.
If it was an enforcible crime that any employer of anyone that didn’t get the card or number was to be shutdown that year – farmer, wal-mart, golf club, etc… then you’d start to see some turn around.
Tear down the walls and put in “Take a number” cards at the borders – While here, you pay taxes and your fair share like all the rest. And you can’t hire in the country anyone without it. sorry farmers, we gotta draw a line somewhere and YES, there are jobs that no one wants to do – But thats just because the guy being paid $2 a day will. Minumum wage and taxes for all will make those rouge companies hire people they can speak to. OR, it will be a small start and a gross step in the right direction.
I’m not predjudes, I don’t judge, I also had poverty level AGI last year but, I’m here for the dream. I invite anyone here or abroad to come here for the same – Provided that we get fair bennies and treatment.
Drivers license so you can get to a job that doesn’t pay a tax or I9 is bogus, level it up gang. – You come here, you’re an american and we get hammered on taxes. Welcome home and pick up your burdon don’t step in and think you can get some break I can’t get just by not speaking or not being from here… Once you’re here, you pay to play.
Just my 2 cents.
May 24, 2007
Last Free Voice » Blog Archive » Immigration hysteria being used as an excuse for rise of US police state
eagle
May 27, 2007
TIM, YOU SPEAK LIKE A TRUE PATRIOT, IF ALL AMERICANS HAD JUST A LITTLE OF YOUR COMMON SINCE, THE COUNTRY WOULD BE WORKING TOGETHER INSTEAD OF “BACKBITTING” EACH OTHER.
Jun 02, 2007
Immigration hysteria being used as an excuse for rise of US police state « paulie cannoli
jay
Jun 23, 2007
Still don`t get it ? do you sheeple?
It is not for the benefit of the serf or sheeple class that the governement does enact any laws or edicts for the people` protection, while you all struggle to reconcile your personal pet peeves and interest about what may be right or wrong with this country one thing is clear ,you are still dumber than dirt because you think that you live in a place where your opinion counts. Wrong !!! you live in America where neither your vote or opinion matters .Democrats or republicans it amounts to one party driving you into the dirt mouth first ,,still don`t get it?
The next time the word patriot is mentioned or ascribed to anyone who never served a day i will puke. I served 1100 days .. Patriot ? PATRIOTS ? LIVE IT . DON`T TALK ABOUT IT
TALK IS CHEAP.
Suck it up
America`s society has been dumbed down trodden with everybody`s concensus and you sheeple no longer count, neither does anything you say . This or any other forum accomplishes nothing save the means for venting out you frustrations about what it may be that you feel informed about .Reality has it that you mean nothing to any government entity insofar as change can be realized
Give up … you can change nothing in a totalitarian regime ,,, that is the place you now live in and have lived in for three decades. But if you really mean to be heard go and be heard where you cannot be ignored , the capitol steps is a good place to start.I READ THIS FORUM FOR AMUSEMET`S SAKE ,,IT IS ENTERTAINING .
preacher man
Jan 21, 2008
i think that the id card is the stupidist thing that they can do just watch this is going to be the marking of the beast everyone thinks its going to be the 666 its not its going to be the id card just wait and see im 98 percent sure