Award-winning filmmaker and libertarian political activist Aaron Russo succumbed to cancer Friday at age 64.
Russo was best known for his films, most famous among them Trading Places and The Rose, which won three Golden Globe awards in 1980.
What’s less well known is that he was also instrumental in bringing musical acts to the United States in the 1970s, including one of my all-time favorites, Led Zeppelin.
In his later years, though, Russo turned to politics. In 1996 he produced and starred in a film,Mad as Hell, where he criticized many government policies such as the national ID card, the war on drugs, and government regulation of alternative medicine. In 1998 he ran in the Republican primary for governor of Nevada but was defeated. In 2002, before he could decide whether to run again, he was diagnosed with bladder cancer.
In 2004 he ran for President under the Libertarian Party banner, but failed to get the nomination.
Most recently he produced a documentary film,America: Freedom to Fascism, showing a quest to discover which law requires Americans to pay federal income taxes and finding something quite different.
And in 2007 he was one of the first to endorse Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) for President, doing so even before Paul announced his candidacy. Just before he died he spoke to long time friend and libertarian activist Stephen Gordon about Ron Paul:
In our last telephone conversation, Aaron told me he’d kick my butt if I didn’t do what I could to ensure Ron Paul is the next president of the United States. This was his style. While some have viewed his rough-appearing exterior in a negative manner, those of us who knew him realized what a Teddy Bear he truly was. For those who aren’t aware, Aaron has a long history with Congressman Paul. — Gordon Unleashed
Gordon also says: “If I had to guess the epitaph Aaron would prefer, it would be this: All your freedoms, all the time!” We can honor the legacy of Aaron Russo by rededicating ourselves to the fight to reclaim our lost liberties.
(14 votes, average: 4.43 out of 5)
Loading ...
When neoconservative Ben Stein accused Congressman Ron Paul of being antisemitic for merely wanting to ask WHY Islamic terrorists want to attack the civilians living under western governments that have meddled in the Mideast, the members of the Conspiracy could not sit by silently.
Gardner Goldsmith reveals many of the myths and lies behind Barack Obama's push for medical fascism. Then, he reveals the shocking attitude of Tom Brokaw, who believes government health plans are good, and that those very same medical plans should restrict expenditures on "the elderly."
Except where otherwise noted, content on this site is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works license.
Video published by this site is licensed under a Creative Commons Sampling+ license.
Facebook
Digg
del.icio.us
reddit.com
Newsvine
Nate
Aug 25, 2007
Dang! Serious? We just received his “Freedom to Facism” DVD in the mail yesterday. Good man. Long live Freedom. Long live Aaron. Ron Paul for President in 2008!
jules
Aug 25, 2007
Thanks for this blog piece.
I hope Aaron went to his maker satisfied that his many messages are getting out, being distributed via YouTube and Google video et al… knowing that he did what he could.
But the rest is up to us.
Aaron, thank you.
Lyn UK
Aug 25, 2007
His message on the terrible things going on by the power elite got to these shores too. Light up the other side Aaron. Thanks.
Nina
Aug 25, 2007
Aaron, you will be missed.
FIJA
Aug 25, 2007
…the key to peaceful revolution.
Know your jury rights!!
Nina
Aug 25, 2007
the key to peaceful revolution. Know your Jury Rights!!!!!!!!!1
Tony
Aug 25, 2007
Thank you Aaron,
for your time, and concern for the people,
but most of all thanks for your courage….
you’ll be missed.
-Tony
Gery
Aug 25, 2007
My deep condolences to his family…I put him on my blog only a few months ago! Past away incredible but true…certainly when you consider that the cures for cancer are around for more then 50 years but their discoverers systematically killed by the Uliminati for their outrages eugenics plan! Anyway I hope he can make a difference in the other dimension.
Best Regards, Gery
IsItJustMe?
Aug 25, 2007
Or is “Mad as Hell!” based on Network.
Jeff Hoyt
Aug 25, 2007
Heartbreaking news, this.
I had the priveledge of meeting Aaron at the Navy Pier IMAX Theater last September. Mere seconds in his presence showed a gracious and gentle man. He had returned from Germany not long before that, and was hopeful that his battle with cancer was won.
America has lost a very valuable citizen with Aaron’s death. How I wish this news wasn’t real…
Rick
Aug 25, 2007
You have been one of the very few my friend, to set the rusted wheels of freedom in motion again – and we shall never rest until they run as fast as the wind.
- You will be forever in our hearts. we WILL finish your work and let YOUR dreams of freedom become our reality – NOT the nightmeres of Orwell.
Harold Hawn
Aug 25, 2007
I was sad to learn that Aaron was no longer with us. He will be surely missed by those of us, who will continue to fight for the freedoms that our government is continually trying to take from us here in the United States. His works alone will stand as a legacy to what he has done to try and make our world a better place. From the works he done with such legendary music groups such as Led Zepplin, to the Hollywood movies he made, to the political activism he embraced, his works were all for the people he loved and respected so much.
Sadly, we are left with an immense hole in our intent on activism that will not be soon filled, due to his death. He truly was a voice in the wilderness, that so many have heard , and heeded.
My he find the peace and freedom on the new plane on which he now resides, that he was never quite able to find in this life. In a tribute to his life, and his works I am listening to “Stairway to Heaven” as I write this. I can’t think of a better song, that says it all. May we look to the west, and here here his voice, and never stop wondering.
Benjamin Bairrington
Aug 25, 2007
God bless Aaron Russo and God bless America.
Bobby
Aug 25, 2007
Thank you Aaron for facilitating the rise of the greatest band in rock history, Led Zeppelin. RIP Aaron.
Peter K.
Aug 25, 2007
I wish Aaron Russo had used his resources and talent to produce an accurate documentary about the income tax and its harmful consequences. It is truly unfortunate that he squandered that opportunity on “America: From Freedon to Fascism”.
I fear his legacy will be countless people — who would otherwise be active for liberty — instead throwing their lives and fortunes away in reliance upon the profound legal, historical and other errors in that film. Worse, the fortunes in question will be thrown in the direction of the federal government, in the form of interest and penalties for nonpayment of taxes.
While there may be much for which Aaron Russo deserved admiration, that film is not one of them. Just to correct some of the errors:
1. The U.S. Constitution, before the 16th Amendment, allowed taxation of incomes.
2. Under the U.S. Constitution, before the 16th Amendment, some — but not all — income was immune to taxation, unless it was apportioned among the states according to the census.
3. Whether income was subject to — or immune from — taxation without apportionment, before the 16th Amendment, depended upon the source from which the income was derived. If the income was rent, i.e., derived from real estate, a tax on it was considered “direct” and therefore could not be taxed without apportionment.
4. Wages, salaries and most business profits were not constitutionally immune to income taxation before the 16th Amendment. A tax on them — not derived from real estate — would not have been subject to apportionment.
5. The Supreme Court case, Pollock v. Farmers Loan & Trust, concerned rental income. The court invalidated the unapportioned tax on rental income because it was unconstitutional. It invalidated a tax on interest from state and municipal bonds on the ground that it violated federalism. In that case or a later case, it explained that the rest of the tax was thrown out because it inferrred that Congress did not intend the tax on other kinds of income to stand in the event of partial invalidation. There was no income tax between the Pollock decision and the ratification of the 16th Amendment, because Congress did not pass one.
6. The 16th Amendment did not authorize the income tax, because it needed no authorization. It only removed the requirement of apportionment for those kinds of income taxation which previously required it. It did not create the power; it removed a restriction upon its exercise.
7. If the 16th Amendment is repealed, Congress will still have the constitutional power to tax wages, salaries and most business profit, without apportionment.
8. No question about whether the 16th Amendment was legally ratified was raised until about 80 years after it was certified as having been ratified, that is, long after anyone with first-hand knowledge was dead.
9. Congress has passed laws requiring people to file income tax returns, and pay the taxes. Congress has passed laws allowing the IRS to assess an income tax on the information available to it, whether or not the assessed individual has filed a return.
10. The laws are published documents. You can find them online, or in books at a law library.
11. It is not part of every federal employee’s job description to show you the laws requiring you to file tax returns and pay the tax. Even if it was, it would not relieve you of the obligation described in the laws passed by Congress.
12. The laws apply equally to people whether they live in one of the 50 states, or Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia, or any possession of the United States.
13. An acquittal in a criminal case for tax evasion or refusal to pay taxes or file a return. has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on the IRS’ Congressional authority and mandate to pursue the defendant civilly for the taxes, interest and penalties, and it has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on any federal tax lien.
14. Almost everyone who gets prosecuted for these violations gets convicted of them, even when they raise the silly defenses described in America: From Freedom to Fascism.
15. Just because a nice man appears in a movie and tells you something, it does not mean he knows what he’s talking about. Even if he’s wearing a tie. Even if he is sitting in front of a bookshelf. Even if he’s wearing a tie AND sitting in front of a bookshelf.
16. The Supreme Court has never said anything which contradicts anything in points 1 through 15 above.
bb
Feb 09, 2010
what exactly is your source of information and just exactly how reliable is it ?
bb
Feb 09, 2010
and you know very well as I do that the Supreme Court does NOT always abide by the United States Constitution either !!!!!
Kevin Houston
Aug 25, 2007
Regardless of the merits or demerits of any of his films, he was always a voice for liberty, and he will be sorely missed. Our prayers are with his family, and we offer them our sympathies. As great as the loss to the freedom movement is, their loss is greater.
Gregory K. Sloat
Aug 25, 2007
Rest in peace, Aaron. Because of you I learned who Ron Paul is, and I’m now involved in his campaign. Ron Paul in 2008!
richard avard
Aug 25, 2007
Mr. Russo was a unique and talented man. He was the personification of a true American Patriot. While others talk the talk, Aaron always walked the walk. Let us honor him and pay tribute to him by finishing the critically important work he so diligently pursued
libertyman
Aug 25, 2007
Thanks for doing this tribute to Aaron Russo. He was an inspiration to many and his work aided in the cause of liberty more than most people in this last decade. I do not get weepy for people I do not know personally but I did when I heard the news of his passing.
Aaron will be missed but his work will continue to inspire people to become more free and that will be with us as long as people seek liberty.
Saddened...
Aug 25, 2007
Firstly, Aaron Russo shall be missed and America lost a voice for liberty. Who would come bash his work on a film, while saying “I’d like to pass on my condolences” nice attack there buddy. Aaron you will be missed and I’ll keep fighting for liberty.
Jeff Hoyt
Aug 25, 2007
It seems so inappopriate to do this here, but I have no idea how to accomplish this otherwise, so I ask forgiveness ahead of time…
Peter K, you state…
9. Congress has passed laws requiring people to file income tax returns, and pay the taxes. Congress has passed laws allowing the IRS to assess an income tax on the information available to it, whether or not the assessed individual has filed a return.
10. The laws are published documents. You can find them online, or in books at a law library
Okay, let’s assume I’m a lazy, gullible boob.
How about a link, or a book title?
Or are you not allowed to show them to us either?
William Brown
Aug 25, 2007
We’ll miss you Aaron. RIP.
In response to Peter K., Aaron’s film contained more truth than not. You need to study the law as it is written. Here are comments from a tax researcher, Larken Rose:
> 1.. The U.S. Constitution, before the 16th Amendment,
> allowed taxation of incomes.
True, but not taxation of ALL income. (More on this below.)
> 4.. Wages, salaries and most business profits were not
> constitutionally immune to income taxation before the
> 16th Amendment.
I think I agree with what I think he meant: the ruling in Pollock was NOT saying that taxes on wages, salaries, etc., was an unconstitutional, unapportioned “direct” tax. It said that a tax on such income was always considered an “indirect” tax, which is true.
However, that does NOT mean that all such income is taxable. But the taxability or nontaxability of it had nothing to do with the direct/indirect question.
> 6.. The 16th Amendment… only removed the requirement
> of apportionment for those kinds of income taxation which
> previously required it. It did not create the power; it >removed a restriction upon its exercise.
Almost, but not quite. ALL “direct” taxes STILL need to be
apportioned. In fact, by the time the 16th rolled around, the
Supreme Court had changed its mind, saying that every “income tax” “inherently belongs” in the category of INDIRECT taxes (Stanton v. Baltic Mining). All the 16th did was to confirm that, so the courts wouldn’t make the mistake they made in Pollock, concluding that an income tax applied to income from property ownership constitutes a “direct” tax.
> 7.. If the 16th Amendment is repealed, Congress will
> still have the constitutional power to tax wages, salaries
> and most business profit, without apportionment.
Again, I almost agree. Repealing the 16th would have NO effect on what Congress can or cannot tax, just as its ratification had NO EFFECT upon which incomes were or were not taxable (Evans v. Gore, Peck v. Lowe, South Carolina v. Baker).
However, notwithstanding the 16th Amendment, there are STILL some kinds of income which are, “under the Constitution, NOT TAXABLE by the federal government” (26 CFR 39.22(b)-1). The income tax regulations said this loud and clear from 1918 to 1956, and in a fairly obscure current section (26 CFR 1.312-6), they still do. So no, the 16th did not GIVE Congress the power to tax incomes, but both before and after that amendment, there were and are Constitutional limitations upon WHAT Congress can tax.
> 9.. Congress has passed laws requiring people to file
> income tax returns, and pay the taxes.
If they have TAXABLE income, yes. And for that issue, I’ll just direct people to the link near the bottom of the following page, where they can download (for free) my “Taxable Income” report:
> 12. The laws apply equally to people whether they
> live in one of the 50 states, or Puerto Rico, or the
> District of Columbia, or any possession of the United
> States.
Not quite. Anyone with TAXABLE income owes the tax, where ever they live (and whatever their citizenship). But where they live has an impact on what income is taxable and what income isn’t.
(As a side point, which isn’t quite a disagreement, the author makes two comments, back-to back: 1) acquittals do NOT serve as legal “precedent,” and; 2) most people prosecuted get convicted. Both of those are true, but it sounds a bit like he is implying that acquittals prove nothing, but convictions prove something. Neither “proves” anything. Galileo getting convicted didn’t prove that the sun goes around the earth, and O.J. Simpson getting acquitted didn’t prove he didn’t murder someone.)
I wonder if the author of that piece (Peter K.) would be kind enough to answer the six questions found at the end of my “Taxable Income” report.
ron
Aug 25, 2007
Thank you Aaron for waking up the world to tyranny !
We all must stand up and do what is right and help free Ed and Elaine Brown for them and for our future.
Peter K.
Aug 25, 2007
I meant no disrespect for the memory of Aaron Russo. I really liked “Trading Places”.
What I meant to do was to dissuade libertarians, constitutionalists, paleoconservatives or others from falling into the errors suggested by one of his films, with the effect of tying up their time, their lives and their wealth in ill-informed disputes with the agency which enforces the tax code. To do so only means, at a minimum, that more — not less — of your money will end up in the hands of the federal government.
I will address some of the points made by Jeff Hoyt and William Brown.
Jeff –
The books to which I referred are the bound volumes which make up the United States Code.
It is available on line here, but it does not come with a convenient word-based search engine:
(kind of awkward because it turns up too many results other than the specific thing you’re looking for)
United States Code, Title 26, Subtitle A, Chapter 1, Subchapter A, Part I, Section 1 imposes the income tax, see
United States Code, Title 26, Subtitle F, Chapter 61, Subchapter A, Part II, Subpart B, Section 6012 requires the filing of the tax return, with some exceptions as William Brown has alluded, see
I suggest you just go to the first, short link I gave you, and type in the Title and Section. You may find that you also need to type in subtitle, Chapter, subchapter, Part and subpart, too, but try just the title and section.
As William Brown pointed out, who has to file and whether they have to pay an income tax depends upon whether Congress has passed a law stating that the income is “taxable”.
Congress has passed such a law. To grok out whether your income is taxable, you must refer to Title 26, Subtitle A, Chapter 1, subchapter B and Part 1. Then you have to determine whether what you’ve got is “gross income” (Section 61), and if so whether there’s anything left of it after you determine “adjusted gross income” (Section 62). Then you get to figure out whether any of your “adjusted gross income” fits the definition of “taxable income” (Section 63).
It ain’t easy, but it is there.
One final point on this: Aaron Russo made much of the fact that the Code does not define just plain “income”, even though the definitions of “gross income”, etc. necessarily depend on it.
There is nothing unusual about a statute not defining each and every term used in the statute. Usually, terms are defined when what is intended is something other, broader, or narrower than its commonly understood meaning. (It’s not like Congress invented the word “income”.) To define a word, one needs to employ other words. A skeptic could then complain that the words used in the definitions are not defined. Or if they are defined, the complaint could be that those definitions employ other words that are defined right in the very same definitions section, so it would then be derided as “circular logic” concocted by the very scoundrels who wrote the tax code. Those (duly elected) bastards.
That’s just the nature of language. No rational person could look at thelist of things specifically included in gross income and be sincerely confused about whether someting is included. Furthermore, there is precedent that says that when the highest court in a jurisdiction has construed a statutory term, and the legislature has since held a session without correcting the court’s construction, the legislature is deemed to have adopted that construction. There have been plenty of cases adopting broad defintions of “income”.
William –
See my response to Jeff, above in this post.
Regulations of the IRS, of course, cannot expand Congress’ powers under the Constitution. But I do not think that is what the IRS attempted to do by regulations stating what is taxable. The regulations give the IRS’ interpretation of Congress’ definition of taxable income, i.e., what Congress has chosen to tax. See Title 26, Section 61 through 63, to which I referred above.
I did not imply that acquittals prove nothing or that convictions prove something. Convictions — even incorrect ones — act as judicial determinations that someone has done something (or failed to do something) “beyond a reasonable doubt”.
An acquittal means only that the government has failed to prove the same “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Because of the double jeopardy provision, once someone is acquitted, the government can’t try again to get a conviction.
But a civil case is still possible even after the government has failed to obtain a conviction, because a civil case does not require that something be proven “beyond a reasonable doubt”.
That was why O.J. Simpson can lose in a civil case involving the same facts which were the subject of the criminal trial at which he was acquitted.
And that is why the IRS can and will still pursue a civil case for taxes, interest and penalties even if a citizen has been acquitted of a criminal charge arising from failure to file or accurately report income or pay the taxes thereon.
I am not unwilling to answer your questions, if you post them on here, I understand them, and they do not require extensive legal research.
Jeff Hoyt
Aug 25, 2007
Peter K,
Thank you for your response. I did not take anything you said as disrespectful of Mr. Russo. When I am convinced of the correctness of my position, I use language stronger than you did, while not meaning anything personal.
I will pursue what you have written, but rather than make this post the place for it, I will ask Michael to allow a new post where it can be discussed. I will not involve myself in any more responses here. If not, perhaps you or another writer can suggest a place to which the discussion can be moved.
I’m sure it goes without saying that if the contentions made by Mr. Russo and those of his persuasion, of whom I am one, are shown to be true, it constitutes the kind of information that can topple a government if enough members of society believe it.
The truth, in this case, is certainly worth pursuing.
Lastly, I will say that if such laws as you contend exist actually do exist, it points unerringly to a government that is either staggeringly incompetent – or extremely devious. To make something as simple as whether or not a citizen owes a tax so difficult to determine would make any rational person highly suspicious of the intended end of the obfuscation.
I ask you: if it were your job to explain the government’s expectations regarding taxes, would you come up with anything even remotely like the madness we have now?
Michael Hampton
Aug 25, 2007
My personal position is this:
Whether the income tax is an actual existing law or not, it’s plainly immoral and no one should stand for it.
The U.S. Department of Justice reacted rather poorly to that statement.
Feel free to discuss the income tax issue further on those two posts.
Gregory K. Sloat
Aug 26, 2007
For some reason, the posts that were supposed to contain links to help support the point the authors were trying to make did not make it into their posts. Does this forum strip them out? If so, I’m extremely interested in reading what they had to say, especially WIlliam Brown and Peter K. If you take the discussion elsewhere, could you include a link for those of us interested in following along? Thanks.
Gregory K. Sloat
trumpet@minn.net
Jeff Hoyt
Aug 26, 2007
Thank you, Michael.
Peter K.
Aug 26, 2007
I will post responses to comments 25 through 27 above at Michael’s first link in comment 26.
William Brown
Aug 26, 2007
I will post as Peter K. in comment 29.
G. Bart
Aug 26, 2007
I was very sad to hear of the death of Mr. Russo. I was looking for more information on him right after watching an interview with Aaron and Alex Jones when I came across news of his death. Too many of the great leaders of liberty are gone early. My condolences to his family and friends.
To address the issue of taxes, which I don’t think is inappropriate here, isn’t the larger issue that the income tax paid is used for nothing but paying interest to the central banks? And can someone explain or add a link about where the govt. borrows money from, I thought the main creditor these days was China.
GB
Kris Overstreet
Aug 27, 2007
The issue of whether the current income tax is legal or illegal is moot. If illegal, the current government will do whatever is necessary to make it legal almost instantly… and they will be sustained, in large part, by the voters who support them.
Under the circumstances, it makes no sense to waste effort arguing that the income tax is illegal. Instead, we should presume that it is currently legal… and bend our efforts instead to abolishing it.
Paul
Aug 27, 2007
I read about this at 3:37 am on the 27th. I, seriously, wept for him, and the U.S.
All I can say, as ambitious as I am, and as great is my desire to serve the nation is, Christ being our penultimate example, I hope people can one day say my contribution is at least comparable to Russo’s. Go with God Aaron. I don’t know if you accepted His gift-I hope you did; but you were definitely doing His work. We love you Aaron.
R.I.P.
Aug 27, 2007
R.I.P. How depressing and may he live on in others to carry out his mission.
Anonymous
Aug 27, 2007
Russo, you still owe me money!
Vegas
Peter K.
Aug 28, 2007
Paul –
Um . . . How did Christ “serve our nation”? Any why is Christ the second-to-last (“penultimate”) example?
Carola Von H.
Aug 30, 2007
Interesting background on Aaron Russo. Good to be reminded that not everyone in big media land has the same old political perspective. Here’s hoping he got a quick trip up the stairway to Heaven…
Average Joe
Sep 01, 2007
Regardless of the details of law,America made a promise a
long time ago that it would protect people who work and live here from terrany and to respect individual beliefs and
lifestyles.The definition of income seems to be in dispute.
It seems to me that any man or woman has a right to earn a
living without fear that one day they might suffer consequenses for that effort.There are quite a few people in this country working for very little compensation and income tax is a hardship for them.While the politicions allow policies that offer no protection for these common working
people ie: not enforcing imigration laws and allowing imported goods in from countries that oppress thier citizens.
Peter K.
Sep 01, 2007
Average Joe –
If we banned all goods from countries that oppressed their citizens, everything we buy would have to be imported.
Average Joe
Sep 02, 2007
So forget integrety -we need that cheap labor and we don’t
care what happens to these people(including many children)
“My kids’ going to Stanford and it ain’t cheap” so let someone elses child contibute to the tuition of my kid ” he’s
smarter? By the way these foriegn “goods” ain’t that good!
Im just saying how about some balance? America made a promise
to always strive for a “higher standed”.It’s an ideal but not
a bad one nor immpossible.It should be good people kicking
the “thugs” out, not thugs kicking other thugs out and what
we have now is a bunch of thugs! How bout made in the USA!
Peter K.
Sep 02, 2007
Average Joe –
You seem to believe a lot of things for which there is no evidence.
Please say what countries you are talking about and tell us why you believe we should be forced to pay taxes to employ people whose jobs it would be to keep those countries’ goods out of the United States.
What thugs are you talking about?
And what is wrong with children working? Have you never paid your own child to do work around the house? Are you aware that in some countries, if the children do not work, the family starves? Are you aware that the families make the choice to have their children work in factories because the alternatives are (1) stoop-labor agriculture (making less money than if our government did not subsidize the American competition), (2) picking through garbage dumps, and (3) the child sex and porn industry?
Since you seem to think that you can make better decisions for those families, tell us to which of those fates you would consign their kids if you could make the choice.
Average Joe
Sep 05, 2007
Doing the dishes, mowing the lawn etc. is a far cry from the
full time effort many children endure everyday in virtually
every developing country on the planet.Abuse is a fact only
people with a vested interest would deny.Look at our own
history with child labor as we entered the industrial age!
As for enforcement of the ports? We employ people anyway.
I think we’ve gotten off track here.What my argument really is about is tax on income. Labor is something I believe every
individual should have a right to exercise and not be subject
to taxation.Income is profit from “investment” and thus taxed
Peter K.
Sep 05, 2007
Average Joe –
I acknowledge the discomfort you have when you think about answering my questions. It bothers you because you are unable to think of answers that do not undercut your beliefs.
But I will answer your points. Yes, people in our country sent their children to work in factories. Like people in the third world today, they found that to be better than the alternatives.
I also must acknowledge your preference for taxing the incomes of peoople who make their incomes in a different way than you do. Very big of you.
Average Joe
Sep 06, 2007
I could point to alot of examples but the point really is
Aaron Russo challanged the government to point out where the
law requires income tax to paid.They refused.Why not take the
opportunity and answer that question once and for all? I
understand that “death and taxes” are a fact of life.I just
believe the deck is getting stacked higher in favor of those
who already have an advantage.Do offshore corporations such as “Halaburton” pay taxes to the U.S.? I heard they don’t but
I’m not sure? If they don’t does that mean the money does’nt
go back into to U.S. economy? I’m unsure about that too.How
about workers from Mexico? I hear they send an awful lot of
the money they make back to Mexico? unclear there too? I
think it’s okay to ask questions.It now takes two incomes to
provide for a typical family when not long ago it only took
one.Yes the standard is good but at what price? The middle
class was the “backbone” of prosperity in America.I think it’s worth protecting.I thought “conservative” meant believing in “conservation” and preservation.If someone has a better idea? Let’s hear it! I also hear we are in debt to
China and Mexico and other countries too! The products I
remember that were made in America when I was a youngster
seemed to last a lifetime and were affordable.This stuff we
get now from other places breaks in a day! but it is cheap!
Again, at what price? So educate me, I’m just an average Joe
Peter K.
Sep 06, 2007
Average Joe –
I still don’t see a response to the questions I asked of you.
I have addressed the matter of where in the law the obligation to file and pay taxes appears, either elsewhere in this thread, or in the thread involving Ed and Elaine Brown. I will not revisit that further here.
In a nutshell, however, the answer is in the United States Code. IRS agents, like all employees in the public and private sector, have particular jobs to do. It is not in their discretion to do jobs other than what is assigned them. They do not get paid a salary to do whatever some random citizen wants them to do, including legal research, any more than they get paid to do whatever the hell they, themselves, feel like doing.
I, however, did the research, and I posted it. Go look for it.
Average Joe
Sep 07, 2007
Peter you sound abit frustrated with me.Even the mainstream
media has covered all kinds of let’s call it questionable
treatment of people and the environment in Africa, China,
India, eastern europe and South America (did I miss a con-
tinent? Look at the mess in the news today with “Mattel Toys”
and lead paint.Why did’nt anyone check and inspect in the first place? does that show leadership? Too many polititions
both democrat and republican seem to turn a blind eye to these issues.I thought the courts were the avenue of challange in our legal system. I don’t expect some clerk at
the IRS to answer something that complicated.After all the
supreme court did decide at one time that income tax was
unconstitutional only to have it overturned later.As I say
I’m just asking questions.Now they want to tax Equity I hear
but Wall street is sweating it, they know if that happens
the rats will jump ship! Seems big money does’nt want to pay taxes either.Look at the disaster in healthcare,is that a well oiled machine? a HUNDRED AND FIFTY BILLION for Katrina
and who got the money and what got done? I never see much
attention to these things in the news. aren’t there people
somewhere that could explain this? No I don’t have answers
and I’m no leader but I don’t see anyone on the horizon that
won’t cowtow to some special interest be it bleeding heart
liberals or zealot Bible thumpers.Do the thugs have names?
My guess is they’re just average Joes with sticky fingers.
I’ll check your research but what about my questions? once
again, educate me. AJ
Peter K.
Sep 07, 2007
Average Joe –
I think we have finally found some common ground: Neither one of us knows what you are talking about.
I’m all done trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.
Average Joe
Sep 07, 2007
Well I guess Peter gave up on the average Joe,A dumb sh_t
perspective too much to deal with. No honest person would
argue that some taxes are the obligation of every citizen
no matter where they call home. As Will Rogers once said
“it’s the greatest country on Earth but you have to pay to live here!” So the real disagreement lies with how taxes are
collected to pay for the collective benefit of all.There are
some that believe that “Capitalism” is a system where one
take the fruits of thier labor and “invests” in the collective effort of organizations and hopes to profit from
that investment and expects to pay a tax on any gaines for
that priviledge.That, personal labor physical or otherwise
happens to be something they own and have a right to exercise without being charged a tax for.Every living thing
has the right and natural need to forge out a means to survive.Should there be a tax for this necessity? This is the
question I ask.Personally I object to that notion but I
realize the money has to come from somewhere.The monotary
system works because of “confidence” in the rules of the
system.When “loopholes” excuse some from the rules it upsets
the balance.Our value lies in what we provide for ourselves
and the rest of the world.Some might call it Gross National
Product(s) and services.What value we offer the World “is” our value.So really the goal, prosperity for the whole.Some
work harder and prosper more than others, that seems fair.
They buy bigger houses and pay a higher tax on that property
than the guy down the street with less square footage,
what’s wrong with that? So at issue is “fairness” that’s
what I’ve been talking about.Is it honest to take advange of
less fortunate people in other countries and live better here
at thier expense, while thier leaders reap the rewards of
those agreements? These are the questions I ask myself and
people like Peter K. I presumed he might be smarter than me
and have some answers but what he really lacks is patience.
I guess no one else wants in the frey, so farewell Peter it’s been fun.Average Joe, just another dumbsh_t
profit
Sep 22, 2007
Arron quoted rockerfella that they were going to go after Chevez.
they did, in 2002, and the coup was realised by the people who prompted the military to regain their senses and arrest the would-be future puppet government of Venezuela.
There is more at work in this world than the will of evil.
By the way, the first day of the coup, when Chavez had been arrested and locked up, the police started violently supressing free speech and protest.
Know the ways of evil and you will be free to see it.
When you see it you cant help fight it.
Peter K.
Sep 23, 2007
profit –
First, spelling does not appear to be one of your strong points. Who is “Arron”? Who or what is “rockerfella”? Is “Chevez” any relation to “Chavez”?
If indeed your post has anything to do with Aaron Russo, please explain why anyone who shared any of Aaron Russo’s philosophical beliefs should be a fan of Hugo Chavez. If you do not think such a person should be a fan of Hugo Chavez, tell us why your allegation about what “rockerfella” told “Arron” should matter.
Average Joe
Sep 26, 2007
Could’nt resist putting my two sense in.I think it’s so odd
how offtrack conversations can go.Some questions have been raised.Who cares who asked them? Do you have to be a fan of anyone to agree that the question(s) have validity? Ego seems
to play a large part in every human endeavor,big deal! Is
Hugo Chavez a good guy? Is AAron Russo? who cares? The point
is they are at least challenging the status quo and not just
accepting what they are told to be true.Why bring personalities into it? It only diverts from solutions that
might lead to be a better way. Average you know who-
P.S.”two sense” “2 Cents” whats the dif?
Jack 22
Sep 30, 2007
Peter K.
can you explain n’ define the words; income,voluntary to me?
as in the way the law define it.
Jack 22
Sep 30, 2007
sorry about the miss spelling on some words. i’m on some med’s right now
Peter K.
Oct 01, 2007
Jack 22 –
Yes, I can.
Like many words, the words “income” and “voluntary” have several definitions. That’s just the nature of the English language.
For example, in the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, the word “voluntary” has four definitions. One of them is “not accidental; intentional”.
For example, if I’m driving my car, and I come to a red light, my car will stop. But this is not accidental; it is because I use the muscles in my leg and foot to depress the brake pedal because I intend for the car to stop.
You should get yourself a dictionary. Then you yourself can look up the definition of “income”.
JACK 22
Oct 01, 2007
peter k,
your example 4 “voluntary” sucks.when you come to a red light you stop because it’s the law. 1. if you don’t stop at a red light you could kill someone 2.you’ll get a ticket 4 not stopping.ect
and i can see that you cannot define the word “income”.ask someone from the us-congress the meaning of that word.u’ll be amazed at there response.
Jeff Hoyt
Oct 01, 2007
Peter K,
It’s just suggestion, but I don’t think you should engage this guy any further…
michael mccormick
Oct 02, 2007
#10 (anyway to get in touch with Jeff Hoyt? Thanks, Michael McCormick)
Jeff Hoyt | August 25, 2007 8:30 am
Heartbreaking news, this.
I had the priveledge of meeting Aaron at the Navy Pier IMAX Theater last September. Mere seconds in his presence showed a gracious and gentle man. He had returned from Germany not long before that, and was hopeful that his battle with cancer was won.
America has lost a very valuable citizen with Aaron’s death. How I wish this news wasn’t real…
Mike
Oct 11, 2007
Everyone would love to argue the fact of the 16th admendment and if it is right or wrong. That is besides the whole point. The big picture is that Aaron was pointing out is their is a serious problem with our Federal Government and how twisted it realy is. This is the sad truth of the matter that everyone agrees on.
Mike
Oct 13, 2007
I see no additional comments. Enough said…….So get off your asses and vote for Ron Paul this election.
carolyn
Oct 16, 2007
i just wanted to pay my respects , Aaron Russo, sir, you will be missed ,our world will suffer in more ways than one without you. i want you-all to know i have been trying to post his videos on myspace to help “WAKE PEOPLE UP”!!! LORD knows we will need more of ‘us’ to try to sperad his words/videos/etc, now that he is no longer with us.(nobody could do it better,than he) may you rest in PEACE~much love coming your way,also, i know your gone, but will live on forever in your work, we thank you sir for all you have done~ PEACE~ carolyn
truthseeker
Oct 19, 2007
The world is a lonelier place. I heard somewhere that undesireable disidents can be afflicted with cancer, with a little help from their enemies. I’d happily expound on this theory but the keyboard suddenly & mysteriously refuses to obey my commands!!!
Vicky
Oct 29, 2007
What an inspirational man he was and will continue to do so. Thank you Aaron Russo
Peter K.
Oct 29, 2007
Vicky –
Aren’t you making the exact same mistake that Big Government advocates make when they support new programs or oppose repeals of old ones? The same mistake that voters make when they support a politician because his heart appears to be in the right place?
Aren’t you confusing good intentions with results?
What useful or productive thing did Aaron Russo ever inspire anyone to do?
Jeff Hoyt
Oct 29, 2007
Well, for one, his film “America…” pushed me a little harder to determine the truth regarding taxation of personal earnings. The end result, as plainly evidenced by the film, by the “I Support Ed and Elaine Brown” thread, and by most everything else I’ve read, is that nobody can provide an answer that I would bet lunch on, which is what I figured would happen anyway. From this result, I have decided to continue to pay the paltry amount I usually owe, so that I can concentrate what efforts I can realistically mount to fight the ever-increasing levels of government intrusion into our daily lives. On a much more personal level, the film resulted in a trip to the Navy Pier IMAX theater for its showing, where I had the priveledge of meeting this very gracious man.
It is not necessary that a man always be correct in his words, deeds, or intentions in order to accomplish a good thing. Passion and enthusiasm combined with a desire for the betterment of society can be infectious. Who can tell but that someone who has seen “America: From Freedom to Fascism”, or come to this website and read comments by Peter K, may go on to accomplish much that we can’t know about yet.
Build some good faith, Mr. K., and leave Mr. Russo’s memory, and those who wish to laud it, alone. You are beginning to remind me of the Player Queen, whom Hamlet’s mother suspected was protesting a bit too much.
In this, I suspect I am not alone.
Galen
Nov 24, 2007
It appears this Peter K is a government scum bag that probably works with the Internal revenue of deception. I really think your an enemy to true freedom and you interpret the law the way you were told to do so lol
Peter K.
Nov 24, 2007
Galen has thus joined in the rich tradition of income tax denialists — making untrue statements for which he cites no evidence, because no evidence exists, and — even if it did — he lacks the intellectual skills necessary to articulate what it is.
Galen
Nov 24, 2007
first of all moron I didn’t deny anything. I just made the observation that your probably an employee for the I.R.S or a skank tax preparer. The fact that you would defend a corrupt corporation like the I.R.S makes you a true trader to free people and a complete idiot. I did not deny that the corporate whores in Washington didn’t make bogus laws like the creation of the not so federal, federal reserve. This government has become a bunch of corporate whores and you appear to be one of them. To try and disgrace Aaron Russo on a site that was made in tribute to him is a disgrace and a lack of taste. You show that you have no class, no morals, so that leaves me to believe your probably some sort of scuzz ball like an attorney, tax preparer, or someone that works for the I.R.S.
Galen
Nov 24, 2007
I never denied the 16th ammendmant. I just made the observation that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck , it must be a duck. Your a classless, tasteless skank for defending the I.R.S. The federal reserve is not even federal. Your defending the enemy of the American people either because you work for the I.R.S or your some skank attorney or politician. Which one is it ?
John
Dec 06, 2007
Years ago, I started becoming interested in the history of the 16th Amendment and the particular context of how it came into being. But that interest waned over the years until I saw Aaron Russo’s film MAD AS HELL, and FREEDOM TO FASCISM. His position and what he stood for got me thinking about this issue again, and it is part of a broader context of the need for adherence to Constitutional law in general regarding a myriad of issues. I do hope to see Aaron Russo in heaven one day, and my condolenses go out to his family.
Beau Brady (Cadott)
Dec 10, 2007
Aaron Russo didn’t like to pay his taxes thats why he made freedom to fascism a piece of infotainment without the info. Nothing in that film is factual. Sorry being a producer on trading places (his only real accomplishment) doesn’t make you an expert on anything. It’s too bad he had cancer but he has done more to confuse people on serious issues like paying your taxes than almost anyone. Check the IRS website for the law or go to a law library and look it up yourself it exists! Whatever legacy Russo had will be forgotten next to that joke of a documentary.
Peter K.
Dec 11, 2007
Thanks to Beau Brady.
I have been pointing out factual and logical errors in “America: From Freedom to Fascism” since I first saw it. It is nearly impoosible to list them all.
UK ID# 1234...
Dec 12, 2007
Were so lucky in the uk, we aint got no brains, We are hard
wired to the bbc so we enjoy being ripped off.
It has its advantages, we knew wtc7 was going to collapse
twenty five mins b4 it actualy did, AINT THAT COOL :)
Its a real shame Aaron died because I bet he would have loved
to have seen all you guys in america when you refuse the ID
chips like we have here in the uk. We had to work hard though. You need to set up a central weby where you can meet and gather forces. Just imagine the chaos if even a qaurter
of your nation were to pull the loo flush at exactly the
same time.
I have to go now, Bye all.
bbc is my master, bbc is my friend, I obey bbc bbc …
UK ID# 1234...
Dec 12, 2007
Were so lucky in the uk, we aint got no brains, We are hard
wired to the bbc so we enjoy being ripped off.
It has its advantages, we knew wtc7 was going to collapse
twenty five mins b4 it actualy did, AINT THAT COOL :)
Its a real shame Aaron died because I bet he would have loved
to have seen all you guys in america when you refuse the ID
chips like we have here in the uk. We had to work hard though.
You need to set up a central weby where you can meet and
gather forces.
Just imagine the chaos if even a qaurter of your nation were to pull the loo flush at exactly the same time.
bbc is my master, bbc, I obey bbc bbc …
Bri
Dec 16, 2007
After reading the whole thread I’d have to agree that Peter K. seems like some kind of shill. Obviously he’s never heard of Sherry Peel Jackson. His persona smacks of the self-righteous smugness one comes to expect from corrupt government apologists and their ilk. The world is a sadder place for the loss of Mr. Russo, and even sadder still at the idea that creatures such as Peter k. and Beau Brady continue on.
Peter K.
Dec 17, 2007
If “Bri” had indeed read the whole thread, he, she or it would realize that the discussion of the factual and logical errors in Aaron Russo’s film, and in the whole income tax denialist community, moved to the thread involving Ed and Elaine Brown.
Thus, Bri has no basis for the erroneous conclusion that I am a shill for anyone.
The fact is that I am an active opponent of income taxation. I am also more effective than any income tax denialist could ever be in that regard, precisely because I do not live under the delusion that the income tax does not exist.
And yes, I have heard of Sherry Peel Jackson. She makes the same mistakes a lot of income tax deniers make, and she also has on her personal website something which is a quite glaring inconsistency with anyone who speaks admiringly of Aaron Russo’s silly movie.
One mistake she makes is looking for the legality of the income tax by reading IRS regulations. The IRS lacks the power to regulate on its own; it has to have been authorized by an act of Congress. To prove or disprove the existence of a congressional act requiring the payment of income taxes, or the withholding of same from wages, or the rates thereof, etc., one needs to read and cite the Internal Revenue Code.
I have already done that in the thread involving Ed and Elaine Brown.
Another mistake of hers, common to income tax deniers, is to insist that “most” or the “typical” person does not have to pay income taxes, without stating what she considers “typical” or without stating who she is including in the population for the purpose of concluding that “most” don’t have to pay it. For all I know, she considers a teenager making $8 per hour and working 20 hours a week typical, in which case, she’s right about that teenager not having to pay income taxes (unless a parent is declaring him a dependent).
Now for the glaring inconsistency (not Sherry Peel Jackson’s, but “Bri”): On her personal webpage, Jackson thanks Bill Conklin for issuing a challenge that she credits with opening up her eyes. I have read Bill Conklin’s stuff, and although I do not agree with him on most things, he seems like a bright, honest guy. Bill Conklin maintains his own webpage, on which he posts a “fraud alert”, warning persons with IRS difficulties about unscrupulous individuals who will give them bad advice and get them in worse trouble.
One of the unscrupulous individuals Conklin names is Irwin Schiff.
Now go back and watch Aaron Russo’s “America From Freedom to Fascism”. Upon whom does Aaron Russo rely for his central legal opinion? None other than the very same Irwin Schiff.
So the effect of Aaron Russo’s film has been, unfortunately, to get Irwin Schiff’s bad advice out to many more people, some of whom, like Ed and Elaine Brown, rely on it to their detriment.
Ed and Elaine Brown are now in prison. Thanks in no small part to their reliance upon the kind of nonsense promoted by the likes of Irwin Schiff and the late Mr. Russo.
Mr. Russo could have done a better film, showing the kinds of evil the income tax finances, and showing the degree of waste inherent in and caused by the income tax system itself. I wish he had. Instead, he produced something with is counterproductive to freedom.
Gary H.
Dec 19, 2007
You Know I just happend to pop onto this tirade and intend to not waste any future time to it, peter you make me sick, you seem to be some kind of high school moron who can at least type.
All you people here had better get your rifles oiled, Your ancestors called them ” LIBERTY TEETH” for a reason. Get off your a$$es and read the original documents that say any law made to undermine the original laws are void.
You had better hope and pray that Ron Paul makes it without getting killed or you will be in the red zone for processing.
The problem as I see it is that most PK typs are to young to know what has been ripped off from them, just pick up a penny and look at the pretty copper color and then scrape it with a knife and look at the pot metal its made of, shades of Hitlers Germany, now why does the guvment think the serfs should not have even a pennys worth of copper.
Now Mr. PK and any more idiots like you, shame me with your childish insults about my spelling and grammer, I realy care less.
By the way, Mr Aaron Russo will be missed.
The Machinist.
Peter K.
Dec 20, 2007
Gary H. –
All right, I will try not to insult you about your “spelling and grammer” [sic].
I am curious about one thing, though. You write:
“You had better hope and pray that Ron Paul makes it without getting killed or you will be in the red zone for processing.”
Why? Do you think if he gets killed it will because of the money I donated to him? Or will it because he agrees with me that the federal income tax should repealed?
Also, I do not know of any “original documents” that say “any law made to undermine the original laws are void”. What are you talking about? The Bible?
john
Dec 20, 2007
Is anyone considering that Nick Rockefeller gave Aaron Russo his cancer?
Peter K.
Dec 20, 2007
john –
I am sure some are considering that Nick Rockefeller gave Aaron Russo his cancer, but only idiots and paranoids.
Gary H.
Dec 20, 2007
I thank you very much for donating to Ron Paul.
If you cant think of what the original documents are then you have not a chance, ( not the Bible ).
You should get off your high horse as you are not the expert at life you think you are yet, you are not impressing anybody.
Instead of wasteing your time piddleing around on blogs here and there why dont you work for Ron Pauls cause.
Heres a hint… READ EVERY THING, sort it out later.
When something is done, who profits from it, think.
Nothing is done with out a reason for profit. NOTHING.
Who owns the world ? Who owns you ? Who owns your Debt ?
In about the year 1870 The Constitution For the United States of America was changed, not to many people knew about it then. It was done very secrective, behind closed doors so to say. SO I challenge you to find out WHAT was changed and why it was done Peter K. This is a Homework Quiz, Grasshopper.
The Machinist.
Peter K.
Dec 20, 2007
Gary H. –
So, in other words, you don’t know either. You say that there are some things you referred to as an “original document” which states “any law made to undermine the original laws are void”, you do not know what document it is that says that.
You cannot be referring to the U.S. Constitution, because that would mean that it says it cannot be amended, for example, by allowing direct election of U.S. Senators or universal suffrage for women or 18-year-olds, or to abolish slavery. Plainly, such amendments are not disallowed.
Gary H.
Dec 21, 2007
OH, Grasshopper, You do not listen well…
The Constitution For The United States of America.
Read it. Under pressure from European bankers, Bank of England, ONE word was changed, So in the Library of Congress when you look down on the glass case with The Constitution Of The United States of America. You are looking at a one hundred thirty seven year old forgery.
Try looking up the “Organic Constitution”.
It does exist.
I will not tell you why it was done, you will have to figure it out for yourself, some day you may.
So I will leave you in a dark mist and you can ask all the ignorant questions and beat on people all you want and hide behind your keyboard and play games.
I am Proud to have maby lit a spark in your mind.
And I commend you for supporting Ron Paul.
Dont ever forget this discussion Peter.
I’m Gone Outa Here. The Machinist.
Peter K.
Dec 21, 2007
Gary H. –
Your input has very little value, Asshopper.
It does, however, serve to demonstrate to intelligent people just how bizarre and distorted the thinking process is inside the minds of income tax denialists.
You believe the Bank of England, after England itself had been defeated in the Revolution (or after the Union army defeated the Confederacy, in part by keeping British ships away — I’m not sure what your weird theory is), was somehow able to exert some unnamed “pressure” on the founders (or the national archivist, more than 90 years later?), and further, that the Bank of England used this ability to “pressure” the founders into changing one word in the Constitution.
Ebe
Dec 21, 2007
Ok, so why is “voluntary” compliance asserted in the tax law, and NOT “mandatory” compliance?
Peter K.
Dec 21, 2007
Ebe –
Like so many words in the English language, “voluntary” has multiple meanings, not all of them inconsistent with “mandatory”.
You are thinking of “voluntary” in the sense of “arising from free will, acting by choice, without constrain”. In that sense, filing a tax return is not voluntary.
However, “voluntary” can also mean “normally controlled by individual volition” or “intentional rather than accidental”.
In the latter sense, “voluntary” does not include breathing or the beating of one’s heart, but it DOES include raising one’s arms up in the air. That is true even if one raises one’s arms because someone with a gun so ordered.
If we had a system of traffic controls that depended on heavy metal gates blocking and unblocking intersections, we could not say that one “voluntarily” stops one’s car at an intersection to yield the right of way.
We do not have such a system. Instead we have, for the most part, understood rules of the road, and devices such as stop and yield signs, and traffic lights.
These work because people, by their individual volitions, and not by accident, depress the brake pedals on their cars as they approach an intersection.
In that sense, it can be accurately stated that our system of traffic controls “depends upon voluntary compliance”, notwithstanding the fact that you can be fined and have your license revoked if you don’t step on that brake when the law tells you to, i.e. that braking is also “mandatory”.
It is in that sense that income tax filing is “voluntary” as well as “mandatory”.
Ebe
Dec 21, 2007
That makes no sense at all. How can something be voluntary and mandatory at the same time? Even the Supreme Court doesn’t agree with you:
12. e) “Of course, the Government can collect the tax from a District Court suitor by exercising its power of distraint ~ if he does not split his action ~ but we cannot believe that compelling resort to this extraordinary measure is either wise or in accord with congressional intent. Our system of taxation is based upon voluntary assessment and payment, not upon distraint.” US Supreme Court, Flora v. United States, 362 US 179, 80 S.Ct. 630 (1960).
13. f) “Let me point this out now. Your income tax is 100 percent voluntary tax, and your liquor tax is 100 percent enforced tax. Now the situation is as different as day and night. Consequently, your same rules just will not apply.” Testimony of Dwight E. Avis, Head of the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division of the Bureau of Internal Revenue, before the House Ways and Means Committee on Restructuring the IRS (83rd Congress, 1953).
14. Neither the Federal Tax Regulations nor the Internal Revenue Code define the term `voluntary compliance’. Hence plaintiff relies on the definitions of `voluntary’ given in Corpus Juris Secundum (C.J.S. 92: 1029, 1030, 1031):
15. “The word `voluntary’, which connotes an agreement, implies willingness, volition, and intent. It suggests a freedom of choice and refers to the doing of something which a person is free to do or not to do, as he so decides.
Although for legal purposes the word `voluntary’ is considered to be so simple and in such general use that it need not be defined, it has been defined variously as meaning acting by choice, acting of one’s self, without compulsion, or without being influenced by another; acting with willingness; done by design or intention; purposed; intended; done of his or its own accord; done of or due to one’s own accord or free choice; produced by an act of choice; proceeding from the will or from one’s own choice or full consent.
`Voluntary’ is further defined as meaning free; willing; not accidental; spontaneous; proceeding from the free and unrestrained will of the person; proceeding from the spontaneous operation of the party’s own mind, free from influence of any extraneous disturbing cause; of one’s own will without being moved, influenced, or impelled by others; unconstrained by external interference, influence, or force; unimpelled by another’s influence; not compelled, prompted, persuaded, or suggested by another; acting without constraint by extraneous force; without compulsion.
If the law is the law, then it is mandatory. One stops at a red light because it is the law, not because one finds it convenient. Indeed, the fact that many people run red traffic lights every day and get tickets for doing so proves that compliance is not “voluntary.” If it were, there would be no penalty for failing to comply with a voluntary act, because of the simple fact that it is VOLUNTARY. There should be no reason to use the word “voluntary” because you have no choice under the law. I have found many other uses of the term “voluntary compliance” that clearly show there was no rule of law or regulation stating compliance was mandatory. I find your argument evasive, specious, and wholly non-sensical. “Voluntary compliance” and “mandatory compliance” are not the same thing. Citing and promoting such vaguery and duplicity does a disservice to us all.
Gary H.
Dec 21, 2007
Funny, I dont remember saying anything about not paying taxes!!!
Well I was wrong about you PK, you are a sheeple moron.
If you can not look up the info that I have given you, if your too damn lazy to learn about the history of your country, If you want to hide behind the screen and spout idiotic BS to the other people and impress the girls, then so be it.
Mabey some of you other people can research it and escape the mindset of sheeple.
The information I have given PK is recorded fact.
Called the Act of 1871 Date Feb 21 1871
Now are you all as lazy as PK or do you want to learn why
you are inheriting a country with lots of problems.
I have payed taxes for far more years than PK has been alive, and I realy dont mind it, a good Government needs tax money to operate, but this ones not so good any more.
I’m old enuf to see what you people have lost.
So Peter, wipe the snot off your nose and eat your veggies.
When you grow up you might be worth something, at least in the slave trade, if you was my son I would be ashamed.
The Machinist.
Peter K.
Dec 22, 2007
Ebe –
Thanks for demonstrating your misunderstanding of the Supreme Court decisions you cite.
Also — If you can show a court that you involuntarily ran a red light (for example, because you were having a seizure at the time), you should be able to beat the ticket. Our system of traffic laws relies on voluntary compliance.
Just like the income tax system.
Gary H. –
You began your intrusion into this discussion by insulting me (#76). There was no apparent reason for this, so naturally I concluded that you disagreed with me in my criticisms of Aaron Russo and the income tax denialists.
You never said anything about not paying your taxes, and I never said that you do not pay your taxes. Nor did I say that you had said you do not pay your taxes.
Also, if you have an opinion and you want to persuade other people about it, it’s your job to bring the relevant facts to your audience’s attention. My refusal to do your job does not make me lazy. Your refusal to do it makes you lazy. If you don’t do it, but for a reason other than a refusal to do it, then the explanation must be that the facts don’t support your opinion, or that you’re just too stupid to find them.
So we’re left wondering: Does your opinion arise from your laziness, your ignorance or your stupidity? (These options are not mutually exclusive.)
Ebe
Dec 22, 2007
Peter K. it seems to me I misunderstood nothing except your predilection for falsehood. Continuing to extol the idea that “mandatory” and “voluntary” are the same thing is the kind of circular, erroneous and self-serving reasoning that I’ve come to expect from the ill-informed and the misguided.
13. f) “Let me point this out now. Your income tax is 100 percent voluntary tax, and your liquor tax is 100 percent enforced tax. Now the situation is as different as day and night. Consequently, your same rules just will not apply.” Testimony of Dwight E. Avis, Head of the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division of the Bureau of Internal Revenue, before the House Ways and Means Committee on Restructuring the IRS (83rd Congress, 1953).
This paragraph alone should set things straight, however you chose to ignore it and parrot the same meaningless “traffic light analogy” that I.R.S. agents have been instructed to regurgitate when asked this same question. Is this the best example that can be given? If so, it falls far short of helping to illustrate your point, and, in fact, does more to detract from it’s credibility. As if the ridiculous nature of the argument itself wasn’t enough.
If one ran a red light because one was having a seizure at the time, I would bet that the offense would be forgiven, as you state. The “mandatory” traffic law otherwise has consequences for breaking the mandate to stop at said traffic light. If the law is “voluntary”, the assumption is that stopping is an option one can choose whether or not to exercise, without fear of reprisal or consequence should one not. I step on the brake BECAUSE I HAVE TO in order to comply with the “mandatory” law; your use of the term “voluntary” to describe this action is accurate only when speaking of my intent to perform it, not the reasoning behind it, namely “I don’t want a ticket”. So “in that sense” the intent is voluntary, but not the REASONING behind the intent, which is driven by fear of the consequences; namely a ticket. Getting a ticket is a consequence of violating a “mandatory” law. If the law were “voluntary”, one could choose not to obey it and be secure from consequence, thus illustrating the true function of the word “in that sense”. I reiterate that purposefully obfuscating the difference between these completely opposing phrases is evidence of faulty, circular and one-sided reasoning about a subject that so desperately needs to be clarified succinctly, not manipulated to the seemingly nefarious ends of the I.R.S. and its apologists.
Ebe
Dec 22, 2007
Keep trying Peter k, keep trying.
Peter K.
Dec 22, 2007
I’m in a battle of wits with unarmed men.
Ebe
Dec 22, 2007
No, Peter K. You’ve stated nothing that even remotely implies that you are superior to these folks in any fashion. Your “battle of wits” is raging only in your hopelessly programmed mind, and only in there will it stay, unable to find purchase in the halls of common sense, forever belying your faulty, circular logic. I hope the I.R.S. pays well, the cost of your soul must have been enormous.
Gary H.
Dec 22, 2007
You Know Ebe, this dude is not worth the time it takes to type this, trying to inform him is hopeless, his ritalin fried brain is done, and I am tired of screwing with a junior high dufus, It pisses me off that of all the thousands of blogs on the net I run into this dumbass kid.
He will wind up as cannon fodder some day.
If sombody dosent beat his ass first.
And I’ll bet he’s lieing like hell about contributing to Ron Paul as I dont think he understands what the hell is going on in the world.
Probly will wind up employed by the state as a FEMA or BLM informant.
Or perhaps a prison guard.
The Machinist.
Peter K.
Dec 23, 2007
In this joyous season, perhaps it is better that we atart off by a focus on what we have in common, rather than what divides us.
So that is what I will do in this paragraph. Like “Ebe” and “Gary H.”, I have no idea what evidence there may be that supports what either of them believe, about the law, about Ron Paul or about me. Like them, I have no idea what they’re talking about.
I donated money to Ron Paul because I believe the government should be a lot smaller, that our government should not be meddling in the lives of harmless people here, and should not meddle in the lives of people abroad who are not threatening or harming us.
I also believe the income tax should be terminated. That belief is inconsistent with a belief, apparently held by many who read this blog, that the income tax does not exist, or that most U.S. citizens and residents with incomes above the taxable amounts do not have to pay it.
I am a libertarian. I believe the government should not be mandating conduct unless absolutely necessary to prevent or discourage people from harming each other. Thus, if the income tax was not mandatory, I would be for it.
But it is mandatory. And I’m against it.
And no, the IRS did not pay me to donate to Ron Paul, or to do anything else. Why would anyone think the IRS would pay me to do anything?
Like “Ebe”, I do not know what he is referring to when he accuses me of engaging in circular logic. In post #85, I carefully explained how, because “voluntary” has multiple definitions, at least one of those definitions can be consistent with “mandatory”.
However, in Ebe’s post (#86), he appears to have cut-and-pasted something from somewhere else, which states the word “voluntary” “has been defined variously”.
That is exactly my point. “Voluntary” has various definitions, as Ebe’s post states. Some definitions are inconsistent with “mandatory”; others are not.
If, as Ebe alleges (#89), IRS agents are trained to parrot a traffic light analogy, I was unaware of it. However, even if that is true, it does not follow that the analogy is wrong.
When you step on the brake, it is not an involuntary response to a red light. It is a choice you make, and your choice is influenced by your assessment of risks: The risk of an accident, the risk of getting stopped, the risk of a police officer finding probable cause to search you as a result of the stop, the risk of a fine, etc.
You might make a different choice, disregarding those risks, or judging that the benefits of running the light outweigh those risks. If you start sweating when you hear the cruiser’s siren and see it’s flashing lights in your rearview mirror, the sweating is involuntary.
You would sweat because you know that stopping at the light was mandatory, and since you voluntary chose not to stop instead of voluntarily stopping, the law provides consequences.
But as we’ve already discussed — and Ebe agreed — if the failure to stop did not arise from your volition, the law will forgive you. It will forgive you because the law does not punish involuntary acts. It is a mandatory system which relies on voluntary compliance.
Just like the income tax system. Even though the law mandates the filing of returns, no cop shows up at your door on April 15 and forces you to fill out a return and drop it in the mail. The system relies on voluntary compliance. When the enforcers learn of noncompliance (like the cop who might notice you running the light), then the backup — interest, fines and other penalties — kicks in.
As Ebe correctly notes (also #89), when you step on the brake, the characterization of the act as “voluntary” is accurate only when speaking of your intent to perform it, not the reasoning behind it. But that is precisely the sense in which filing and paying income taxes is “voluntary”.
I did not ignore Ebe’s reference to 1953 testimony by the head of the ATF, I just did not respond to it specifically. I do not know enough about how liquor taxes work (or worked in 1953) to comment. However, my guess is that the ATF is right on the spot selling the tax stamps without which the stuff can’t be shipped. That system would not rely on the still owner initiating a self-report of a taxable event.
Gary H.
Dec 23, 2007
Yup, Just a young, dumb, smartass, know it all KID.
The Machinist.
Gary H.
Dec 23, 2007
Oh by the way, if you had not shown your self to be such a rude smartass to the other people I would not have jumped you.
You know I realy think you do need your ass kicked.
I have a hacker buddy who could find you and my little grand daughter would love to rip your head off.
Merry Chirstmas Smartass.
Ebe
Dec 23, 2007
Peter K., the point you seem to be missing, and which I will attempt to explain for the third time, is simply this. The “voluntary” intent to comply is driven by the reasoning behind it, which is driven by the consequences of not complying. Therefore one is compelled not by one’s own free will, but by the will of another (the law) to step on that brake. The very fact that there are penalties for not doing so already in place negates any “voluntary” qualities you may wrongly wish to attribute to the act of stepping on the brake. The common knowledge is that this is “mandatory”. The decision is forced upon me by the law; I have a “mandate” to stop.
Everyone knows that it is “mandatory” to stop at a red light. The law demands “mandatory compliance,” that is to say, “you have no choice” but to stop. In a likewise manner, the tax law demands “mandatory compliance,” that is to say, “you have no choice” but to pay. I do not volunteer to pay, I do so because the law mandates it. The I.R.S., or one of its cronies like the A.T.F., will surely come after me and take all I own should I not. They already have all of my financial information available to them at the stroke of a button, so they are not reliant upon me to report anything; they can find out quite easily for themselves. How is any of that voluntary? Would I voluntarily subject myself to the wrath of agencies as devious and loathsome as they? No, so I am MANDATED to pay. There is nothing voluntary about the whole sordid affair, and as such, the word “voluntary” has no place whatsoever when speaking of enforced laws. The rest of the working world seems to know this, and correctly uses the term “mandatory compliance” when speaking of enforced laws or regulations.
If compliance is “voluntary”, a choice is implied, specifically with no punishment for not choosing to participate.
Not choosing to participate in paying my taxes would have ill consequences.
Compliance, if it is ENFORCED, (which the tax law clearly is) is no longer a “voluntary” issue, I am forced to pay my taxes by the I.R.S., not forced by my own volition or free will. Therefore the act, from beginning to end, is mandatory. I MUST perform it.
There is nothing remotely “voluntary” in this.
How can one be punished for refusing “voluntary compliance”? The fact that you’ll go to jail if you do means it’s MANDATORY. The term “voluntary compliance” is rendered meaningless by the fact that there is punishment for refusing to comply. One cannot “volunteer” to be told what to do, one is simply told, and then punished if one doesn’t comply. One is told to pay one’s taxes, then punished for failing to.
It is my opinion that only corrupt and odious “agencies” such as the I.R.S. and its apologists would try anything as underhanded and foul as to equate the words “voluntary” and “mandatory” in any sense whatsoever. To do so is without a doubt one of the worst bastardizations and perversions of the English language that I have ever seen.
Peter K.
Dec 24, 2007
Ebe:
I disagree with the first sentence of your first paragraph. I get your point that income taxes are mandatory. That is what I have said. You have come around to my way of thinking, with the exception of the fact that you are hung up on one of various definitions of “voluntary”. There are at least two.
I have never said that that taxes are voluntary, in the sense of the definition of “voluntary” which means “optional”.
I have pointed out, as have you, that there are various definitions for “voluntary”. This is not unusual in the English language; it is in fact the norm. You even cited a court case which says so.
Is there a definition of “voluntary” which is completely inconsistent with “mandatory”? Yes. It is the definition which means “optional”.
Is there a definition of “voluntary” which is consistent with “mandatory”? Yes again. It is the definition which means “not accidental, but rather intentional”.
The system of traffic control does not depend on cars acidentally braking at fortuitous moments, or on government employees on the spot forcing the drivers to stop. It depends on people knowing the law and complying with it by voluntarily (i.e., not accidentally, but by intentional conduct) braking in accordance with the law that they know. As a backup — and it is only a backup — there is a bunch of government employees who will bring the power of the law to bear on those who do not comply.
The system of income taxes does not depend on people acidentally reporting their incomeor on government employees on the spot looking at every transaction and immediately deciding who “profited” or had income and forcing those who do to pay up. It depends on people knowing the law and complying with it by voluntarily (i.e., not accidentally, but by intentional conduct) reporting their income, and their employees’ wages, and paying. As a backup — and it is only a backup — there is a bunch of government employees who will bring the power of the law to bear on those who do not comply.
As you just pointed out, the two circumstances are substantially identical. Not voluntary in the sense of “optional”; but voluntary in the sense of “not accidental, but rather intentional”.
When the IRS says the system depends on voluntary compliance, it is not saying that compliance is optional.
It is saying that the system depends on people and their employers reporting and paying, not accidentally but rather intentionally.
So when the term “voluntary compliance” is used in this context, it is NOT “rendered meaningless” by the fact that there is punishment for refusing to comply. There are two definitions of “voluntary”. You would have to negate both of those definitions for the term to be “meaningless”. The fact of punishment only negates one, and that still leaves one. 2 – 1 = 1.
Yes, there is a bastardization of the term in play, but you point your finger at the wrong culprit.
When people like Irwin Schiff and the late Mr. Russo state or imply that those pronouncements from the IRS or the courts refer to the “optional” definition, they are misleading people. And when they mislead gullible people, they set those people on the path to financial ruin or prison, because payment of taxes is not “optional”; nonpayment comes with consequences, as you point out.
That is why I maintain that such people as Schiff do a great disservice to liberty.
File your return, take every allowable deduction and credit, and use your freedom and wealth for good purposes. One example: volunteering for and donating to Ron Paul.
Ebe
Dec 24, 2007
Not accidental, but rather intentional. Huh. So if we speak ONLY of the intention, that is to say the mere intent, without regard to the reasoning behind it, we can then manipulate it in a fashion that brings us a completely opposing definition.
So, if I intend to pay my taxes, that intent is not driven by my mandate to comply? Or my knowledge of the consequences for not doing so? Again I query, how is any of that voluntary? The only way your definition of the term could possibly apply is in description of the act of physically moving my limbs to perform it, DISCOUNTING THE REASONING IN MY BRAIN that tells me I have to do it or there’ll be jail time. Wow. So the thought processes don’t count; simply the fact that I “intend” to participate (move my limbs in the fashion of filing a return) automatically means that I have volunteered to do so. Incredible. I “intend” to participate because the tax code demands it, not of my own free will. I “intend” to move my limbs in the fashion of filing my return because I fear the law. 2-2=0.
In this respect, as in all others, compliance is shown unequivocally to be mandatory where enforced regulations are concerned.
There are, as we have both agreed Peter K., many definitions of the word “voluntary”, none of which could be correctly conceived by any rational person to be equitable on ANY level with “mandatory”.
I will file my return, but you can bet your bottom dollar that I do so involuntarily. I will take every allowable deduction and credit, because if I refuse to pay at all they’ll take more than just the taxes. My freedoms are disappearing, I have never been wealthy (thanks in part to the I.R.S.), and my good purposes are founded in truth and clarity. I did volunteer for and have donated to Ron Paul’s campaign (no lie). This is, for no small reason, that he also knows the income tax is unconstitutional in many facets.
Peter K.
Dec 25, 2007
Ebe –
I will respond to your points in order:
“Not accidental, but rather intentional. Huh.”
I cannot apologize for writing the dictionary because I did not write it.
“So if we speak ONLY of the intention, that is to say the mere intent, without regard to the reasoning behind it, we can then manipulate it in a fashion that brings us a completely opposing definition.”
No. If we speak only of intent, without regard for the reasoning behind it, then we can conclude that an action is “intentional”.
A friend gives me a ride home in his warm, comfortable car. I am dressed in a t-shirt and jeans. When we arrive at my rural home many miles from any other structure, the temperature is 5 degrees farenheit. I wave good bye to my friend as he drives away. I intentionally put my hand in my pocket, and take out my key to the house. Then I intentionally place the key in the keyhole and turn it. Then I intentionally walk into my warm cozy home.
Am I motivated by the likely consequences of staying out all night in 5 degrees farenheit dressed only in a t-shirt and jeans? Yes. Are my actions of getting and using my key nonetheless voluntary? Also yes.
Yes, because those actions are not accidental. They are not twitches. I am not sleepwalking. I intend them.
The only “manipulation” going on in this discussion of taxation comes NOT from those use the term “voluntary” in the above sense (because it is one accepted definition). The manipulation comes when someone else quotes them, but then substitutes one of the other definitions of “voluntary” to make it appear that some authority has ruled that filing and paying is optional.
“So, if I intend to pay my taxes, that intent is not driven by my mandate to comply? Or my knowledge of the consequences for not doing so?”
Of course it is. No court has ever said filing tax returns and paying taxes is optional.
“Again I query, how is any of that voluntary? The only way your definition of the term could possibly apply is in description of the act of physically moving my limbs to perform it, DISCOUNTING THE REASONING IN MY BRAIN that tells me I have to do it or there’ll be jail time. Wow. So the thought processes don’t count; simply the fact that I “intend” to participate (move my limbs in the fashion of filing a return) automatically means that I have volunteered to do so. Incredible. I “intend” to participate because the tax code demands it, not of my own free will. I “intend” to move my limbs in the fashion of filing my return because I fear the law.”
You got it. But please note the actual point that the courts and IRS are making when they say that the income tax “depends primarily on a system of voluntary compliance”. The point is that the tax would be much more inefficient and much more inequitable if it “depended primarily on” government-initiated audits, inquiries, searches and seizures and prosecutions, rather than taxpayer self-reporting and payment. The audits, etc. are just backups.
Glad you’re helping Ron Paul. I only wish he was as articulate as the late Harry Browne.
Chris
Dec 30, 2007
Jeeze, Peter, your parents knew how you were going to turn out, look what they named you.
And here you are being a dick to folks, playing word games and heaping criticism on a mans achievements, in an area where I don’t doubt you fall far short of.
Peter K.
Dec 31, 2007
As I have domonstrated, the ones playing “word games” are the ones who take someone else’s words and attribute meanings to them other than the one obviously intended.
No person familiar with the various definitions of “voluntary” could, in good faith, attribute to a tax enforcement agency’s use of that word the meaning “optional”.
A tax is, by definition, not “optional”. Taxes are imposed. When a law is enforced it is not “optional”.
I have not heaped criticisms on anyone’s achievements. I do not consider the spreading of a misconception to be an achievement. If, on the other hand, Schiff and Russo actually intended to lead people down a path which would result in the IRS taking more of those people’s wealth in the form of interest and penalties than it would have taken in taxes, then it appears Schiff and Russo have achieved that.
But that is a victory for big, overbearing government, not liberty. I will not congratulate Schiff and Russo for that.
Larry
Jan 12, 2008
So now “voluntary” means “optional” and also may mean “mandatory”?
To me “voluntary” implies if I want.
“Optional” implies I may or may not depending on my mood at the time.
And “Mandatory” means I must or face some consequences”.
Do we even define words any longer, or can anything mean anything?
Peter K.
Jan 12, 2008
Larry –
Yes,“voluntary” means “optional” now, as it always has, just as it also means — and has always meant — “not accidental, but rather, intentional”.
No, “voluntary” does NOT mean “mandatory”. I never said it did. I only said that something could be both mandatory and “not accidental, but rather, intentional”.
Jeff Hoyt
Jan 14, 2008
If I recall correctly, I had some teachers who told me that if I wasn’t sure what a word meant, to look it up in the dictionary. My dictionary now being 960 miles away at my former residence where it awaits retrieval, it is, at this moment, mandatory that I use an online dictionary in such a pursuit. So, in exercising my option to do so, I am voluntarily relating some information I have found.
This is a partial listing of what I saw when I entered “voluntary”:
4. Law.
a. acting or done without compulsion or obligation.
b. done by intention, and not by accident: voluntary manslaughter.
c. made without valuable consideration: a voluntary settlement.
Then, a partial listing of what I saw when I entered “mandatory”:
3. Law.
permitting no option; not to be disregarded or modified: a mandatory clause.
It is my hope that no one gets the impression that I’m rejoining the fray. I’m just wondring if this offering might move the debate beyond matters that wouldn’t have tied up my Grade 7 English class anywhere near this long…
It never fails to be inconvenient for one side of the argument, but when it comes to the law, context is everything.
Jeff Hoyt
Jan 14, 2008
Further, I’m “wondring” if I’ll ever consistently use MS Word before posting these things…
Frank Smith
Jan 15, 2008
AARON RUSSO WAS A PATRIOT AN AMERICAN HERO. IF THIS COUNTRY IS EVER A REPUBLIC AGAIN. AIRPORTS,HIGH SCOOLS,STREETS, WILL BE NAMED AFTER HIM. MONUMENTS WILL BE BUILT ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY,REFLECTING HIS IMAGE. IF WE DON’T WANT TO BE SLAVES
FROM THE MEMBERS OF THE CFR. WE MUST ACT NOW. ELECT RON PAUL. DESTROY FED RESERVE,CIA,FBI,CFR,NAFTA,GAT,WTO,PATRIOT ACT.MILITARY ACT. RESTORE THE CONSTITUTION AND NEVER FORGET
WHAT IT STANDS FOR. LIBERTY,SUPPRESSING THE FEDERAL GOV
FROM INFRIGING ON OUR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS. IN THIS COUNTRY THE PEOPLE ARE THE MASTERS THE GOV IS THE SERVANTS.
Daid
Jan 16, 2008
Its’s funny how CNN doesn’t mention what Nicholas Rockefeller told Aaron abot 9/11 and the whole RFID chip that the Counil of Foreign Relaion’s elite want to impose on everyone……
FRANK S
Jan 16, 2008
AARON RUSSO WAS AND AMERICAN PATRIOT. I HOPE THE DAY WILL
COME WHEN OUR CONSTITUTION IS RESTORE. AFTER THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS DESTROYED FOREVER. WHEN THAT DAY COMES SCHOOL, AIRPORTS,STREETS AND BABIES WILL BE NAME AFTER HIM.A STAUE
WILL BE MADE OF HIM ON THE GREAT MALL IN WASHINGTON. HE TOLD US THE TRUTH ABOUT THE ELITE. IT IS UP TO US TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. GO RON PAUL!!!!!
Jeff Hoyt
Jan 16, 2008
Frank,
How ’bout turning your cap lock off? All caps indicates shouting; it’s disrespectful, and we already have enough of that. It’s also self-defeating; it’s difficult to take you seriously when you’re shouting. Oh, and you might want to avoid needless repetition. It gets old – quickly.
Anonymous
Jan 16, 2008
Forget the cap lock. Forget the grammar. It’s time we all
SHOUTED for our country. Which is being stolen by the CFR.
Who thinks the contitution is for them and slavery is for us.
Ever try reading some meaningful news lately about Ron Paul?
He beat Rudy and Thomson last night. Yet the MSM treats him like he doesn’t even exsist.
Dane
Jan 16, 2008
Well, I know you shouldn’t talk ill of those who are past, however, I have never been able to make logical sense of any of the subjective sayings of humans.
It must certainly be taken into account that Mr. Russo seems to have aligned himself with many of the power elite, and doesn’t appear to have done anything but accept their offerings. I am in a position to have a rather exceptional birds eye view of this forum and I cannot in good conscience stand beside this man. I want to so bad, however, if one is truly righteous it is impossible. I have eaten the horror he speaks of and have stood tall in the face of the raging beast, for those most would see burned alive if they had their way. Be careful whom you take to heart, and seek deep the hatreds within your soul. Admit, at least to yourself, the vengeance you hide behind, and those you deal your dirty work. This is not an argument for liberty and you all know it. This is nothing more than one more attempt to justify your immorality. Understand, I am no religious maliciency, I am only true proof logic, and this argument is only petty greed in the face of the true issue of denial. Get yourself right and there is no perversion. I am no fool. In this world there is no answer, only offerings to disect. My heart weeps for you all.
Jeff Hoyt
Jan 16, 2008
Uh-hunh….
Dane
Jan 16, 2008
Quit passing the buck. Quit hating. Quit wearing makeup. Quit ripping off your neighbor. Quit investing in the “plaigiarism of partnership” that has now infected our free market society. Quit attacking those whom you do not agree with. Quit running away from your self and expecting your mate to pacify you with sex. Quit running from your fears. Quit picking fights with persons like me whom you misinterpret their pity of you for weakness. Quit destroying your children and crushing their confidence with such misbehavior. Quit idolizing the power elite in hopes you will one day get to deal the card of hatred. GET YOURSELF RIGHT AND BEGIN THE HEALING, OR CERTAINLY WITNESS THE DEMISE. Note, it is not “currencey” it is “O’currencey” and the deal has been struck in deceit. If your brother has thick coats, but is hungry. And you have beans, but are cold. A trade must take place, and in so doing both are warm and sate. Peacefully my brothers and sisters, for all are worthy. Stop the hate and the beast dies. DIVERSITY…UNITY…LOVE, For truly, dreams are the air we breathe.
Dane
Jan 16, 2008
DO NOT BE SO IGNORANT OF THE WHISPER THAT CALLS TO ALL. The truth be told, one of the only formulas you can truly rely on is the one that states “to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction” in as much as I can refrase this one to fit proof logic, it cannot be ignored.
Thine worship is demanded by thy Lord. I say, place thy trust in me, for I am commanded in all action to be a true servant of man.
Dane
Jan 16, 2008
The Mayan 2012 calendar is just another hoax. The Catholic church is still hunting Mayan proponents…Why? you should ask.
Why would they murder so many Mayan priests…I know, and it is only a ruse. The beauty that sets me free is hell for what I see.
Jeff Hoyt
Jan 16, 2008
Uh-hunh…
Anonymous
Jan 17, 2008
Wow ! still at it ! any solutions? just dropped by to see if
the war was still on? Alive and well I see.A war of words
yes but none the less, a war. Average Joe
Dane
Jan 17, 2008
Hmmm… solutions. Ok…I believe that I have put people on the right track, to not consider them solutions is to me somewhat cowardice. I apologize for such a statement, and I understand most are doing the best they can. The problem is just what is your best. What would happen if every person in this nation actually refused to fight? What would happen if all refused to hate? Yes, we are in dire straits. We have been infiltrated to the core and they are counting on your perversion and cowardliness. The problem is that there are a large amount of people who are now dependent on the system. Especially those in hospitals. If you will note, they have done everything they can to appeal to our protective instincts of these people, and have created a bevy of diseased (take note that most of this is just food bourne toxification. And yes, I mean “bourne“). There are many things to consider, however, the war is waging still in every respect. Millions are dying, and they are putting in place the machine of destruction. I do not condone sacrificing any one. Every intention must be initiated to save all good concerned. You ask of solutions, well, I ask what of the equation? Why must you be so insistent of changing the solution when that is an impossibility? 2+2=4…no matter how much you want 5 and try and try to change it to be so. The formula of this nation is one of destruction. The “bible” is nothing more than a manual for demise…think about it. It starts off with many sweet melodies, sucks you in and convinces you that you are doomed and then leads you to such.
I will admit, I have been in a cave of sorts, and have avoided common regurgitatable knowledge in effort to protect the integrity of my gift, and I have been perfecting the art of “care”. I do not belive these analogies are persitent in addressing the crisis, I just did not think anyone cared anymore. I will soon remit true functional progression to solution as quickly as I can. I hope these words sustain you until such time. Peace.
Dane
Jan 17, 2008
Know this. The presence that drives me to this is no choice of my own. It has been my veritable bain throughout my life and I have been commanded to submit. That it has brought me such incredible horrors are not enough to turn me from my calling. I ask only thy forgiveness in my tardiness. It requires so much in sacrifice to attain such views and I am only human. Know this, my love for humanity is eternally immense, and the beauty I possess is certain to put aright the ancient seed of discord.
Dane
Jan 17, 2008
Yep, time to unsubscribe to this thread…
Jeff Hoyt
Jan 17, 2008
Pardon the error, please. #121 was me…
Dane
Jan 17, 2008
One side note. Take into considration that 99% of the population is conditioned to seek approval through the yoke of fear. I could give you 10 tons of truthful knowledge, and then give you one ounce of conjecture that would in the contemporary mind, negate all of that knowledge. Be not so easily swayed. While I do not necessarily stand behind everything Mr. Paul (Perot) says, I do note that he never seems to need a script. Peace.
Dane
Jan 17, 2008
LOL Jeff…I was wondering when somebody would eventually be truthful and tell me to go “bleep” myself. I seek approval of no one. You are wept.
Dane
Jan 17, 2008
Oh, I get it…thread. In other words only emails from those sites you deem worthy. You poor thing. I meant no offense, and I am aware that most insist on attacking the messenger. Peace.
Dane
Jan 17, 2008
You might be wise, Mr. Hoyt, to take into consideration that I have had the US military request my insight on more than one occasion. That I refused, and made note to them that their “answers” were not variable enough for me to choose from is most curious. Seek deep within your heart for the demons surely come calling and they do not take “I don’t know” for an answer.
Peace.
Dane
Jan 17, 2008
Note this. My oath does not preclude me from appealing to your sensablities. That you insist on proof is lunacy. GET YOURSELF RIGHT, OR CERTAINLY WITNESS THE DEMISE. What most do not know is that you follow a doctrine born of vengeance, and they are very determined to have their way. I am finished with this site. My best regards to you all, for you will need it.
Dane
Jan 18, 2008
First of all, my apologies for #’s 119 and 120, I was having a difficult time getting the bug out of my bum, and was not so looking forward to attempting another stab at an solution for people to misuse.
One final note. To ALL concerned. It is quite tiring and subjective for people to keep asking for solutions when they know all they want is some new dogma to appease their indecision. You all know what must be done. It is time to put the truck in reverse. I am amazed at how many people will shove a barrel into their mouth and then get upset at somebody who has the logic to warn them of what will happen if they pull the trigger.
Almost 90% of the people on this planet are persistent in a belief that they are from someplace else and their great Santa Clause in the sky will one day come to take them away and kill all who are not of their faith, so what is that now, somewhere in the neighborhood of about 240 different dogmas of destruction? Billions of complacent psychotics who essentially can be convinced of almost anything as long as it doesn’t fit logic. I say, why don’t you all just speed up the process and go jump off of a bridge, or get your head together, deal with the pain of reality and give us a hand, because there is now quite a lot of mess to clean up.
Mankind is necessant of cycle. Heed these cycles and stop using the call to placate your aversions. These things you call Holidays are of no true compensation. One cycle, is choose three days out of every month to purge.
I am the only person I know who truly loves Jesus of Nazareth, and I am sick and tired of watching people celebrate his death every year. To have murdered one of the greatest humanitarians of all time by pitting him against their enemies in a fight over money, and to have convinced such a loving person that he was the son of their great “Santa Clause” is reprehensible. And they have been using this event to kill millions upon millions of people throughout history. I know where this fight truly began and all should be ashamed. Those who wrote the book, DIED LAUGHING. Not to mention, they also have been misquoting him and adding their own dogma for millenia. The one thing I chide Christ for is taking the easy way out and choosing to die for his cause (oh, the problems that has caused). What is most honorable and courageous is to find it within yourself, the ability to withstand the torturous pain and horror of having to live for your cause, especially these days. I would gladly hang thirty days on a cross and then be burned alive, if I knew for absolute certainty that it would end this lunacy.
I can assure you all, there is a meaning to life, and mankind is greatly shirking “his” responsiblity. Humans are a balance cycle motor with a tri cycle drive, this unity begs the question. Just remember, wi r pi. Peace.
Dane
Jan 18, 2008
My apologies, I am not much if I am not persistent, and I am tired of watching my planet go to hell. This is for anyone who is asking for solutions. Also, you might want to read the many, many, many other comments I have made on this site. (except 119, 120)
Quit complaining you can’t support your kids when you should not have had them in the first place. Quit looking for a relationship to “complete” you. Quit denying your station and then borrowing thousands to go to a college you then justify cheating your way through. Quit using credit cards. Quit watching porno. Quit searching for and buying books that tell you how to get what you want absent of the wisdom one needs to be worthy of such. Quit eating processed foods and feeding massive amounts of sugar, chemicals and poisons to your children. Quit hating people who are more intelligent than you. Quit hating those who are smarter than you, and spend more time at the library. Quit believing this world owes you something, and realize you are here to fulfill your responsibility as a human. Quit ripping off your employees. Quit joining the police force so you can abuse and rape people. Quit demanding your wife take on your role and then attacking her because she does a better job of it. Quit shirking your role as a woman. Quit shirking your role as a man. Quit hiding behind plastic surgery. Quit hating what you have become and then idolizing, exploiting and sexually abusing children (youth). Quit looking to those who claim to be so righteous and start looking to those who have found way to drag themselves up from the gutter without ever losing sight of who they are or crossing the lines that so soil peoples souls. Quit trusting people who claim to have talked to god. Quit gorging yourself and claiming you don‘t, if you must eat so much then eat vegetables. Quit buying all kinds of stupid toys you do not need and helping huge corporations justify poisoning the planet. Quit watching violent films, especially war films and robberies. Quit misinterpreting the contest as real life (football, boxing, etc.), they are only there for pleasure and the life lesson that, truly, victory is failure. The only important thing is that you participate honorably.
America has strolled blindly through the opened door in hopes that when all goes awry we can just dive out the nearest window like some action hero. The problem is that we are now on the 50th floor, and there is no ladder. The only choice is to bite the bullet and turn around. If America is able to prove this courage, I will certainly write a book that details the functional progression to proof logic solution that is needed to bring true prosperity. If anyone does not believe me, I challenge you all to put up or shut up, and do everything you can to put these things into practice in attempts to prove me wrong. OK…NOW I’M DONE!
Frank S
Jan 19, 2008
Dane,let me try to get this right.The American people problems economicly are their own making. You blame the American people for 911. You blame the American people for Geoge Bush preemepted war on Iraq. That cost the tax payers billions a week. You blame the American people for the Patriot Act,WTO,The Federeral Reserve,GAT,NAFTA,Home Land Security. Lets us not forget the CFR (David Rockerfeller) who runs the whole DAM show. You blame the American people for our jobs going eveywhere but here. You blame the American people that this government is taking huge loans from Communist China. What are you smoking?
Dane
Jan 19, 2008
Frank:
What I find very interesting is that you don’t think it is our fault. These people who are in government positions are America, they are the persons we idolize and put in power. That we would rather eat Doritos and watch porno, than assist our nations progress is “bleep”. I have known for many years that they are not worthy. That I could not do anything major about it and knew that those who could would not, just helped me to understand that I had a long wait until I could, and that I must do all I can every day not to contribute. I have been observing this nation from the gutter to the penthouse for over 40 years, and yes, we are certainly to blame. This nation is gearing up to watch the “Stuperbowl” while our sons and daughters are dying in vain in another country we should never have attacked in the first place. I know why we lose 10 times more military persons to suicide on our own soil than we ever have in any war. I also know what diseases these conflicts inspire. A wise man once said “ I have seen the evil,(enemy) and it is us”. We support this debacle every time we invest in a stock we have no true knowledge of, for no other reason than we hope to make a profit. “Profit”, if you truly THINK about it you will realize what a disgusting word it is.
Yes, I am very aware of the resistance it elicits, these words of mine, they are no less true. I was T-boned in a city intersection one day because a lady in a mustang ran a red light. I had every opportunity to blame her and come away feeling very righteous indeed, however, I need no such exhaltation. All I was concerned with is avoiding it happening again, and the only thing I could see is that I was not watching vigilantly, the actions of another, like I usually would, so now I slow down a little at green lights and make sure nobody is missing their red. This is called owning the situation, this is POWER, personal power. That so many Americans misuse their rights is also a great deal of our problems. That we are very deep in “doo-doo” now is our own fault, and it is going to take a lot of real sacrifice and effort to pull ourselves out of the dive-bomb. I wrote a song in the early eighties that may help you to understand that my mind works almost like a time machine, in that I can nearly predict the future (this is actually just an anomaly of our ability to see the progression of our actions). This is a portion of what it said…
…pillars of destruction rising into the sky
Our country is burning, mother nature is learning…well so am I
The smoke is slowly clearing now, see the shackles at your feet
Our leaders are lying and our families are dying out in the street
But still the sound of our fears
Is ringing in our children’s ears
To carry on this vain and selfish pain
Tightening the chains….breeding selfish pain.
If you don’t believe me, well…I don’t know what to say but…GET YOURSELF RIGHT, OR CERTAINLY WITNESS THE DEMISE. I can also prove I wrote this song in the early eighties. Note, there is also much, much, MUCH more in the song.
The only power these people have is the power we GIVE them. Nobody needs much of the things they insist on having. That the true demons put this process in place thousands of years ago is no excuse. RELEASE THE HATE AND THE BEAST DIES. Begin the change now. Understand we are the beast and learn to battle what enables our hatred…it is our misinterpretation of FEAR.
The information necessary for healing is voluminous, however, I must go for now…PEACE.
Anonymous
Jan 19, 2008
Hi Dane we are in agreement. MSM job is to dummy down the people. Watch the Simpson and the Stuperbowl. I believe
if your on a ARusso web site. You don’t buy into the two party system either. The young people are very much into the internet. They are getting the message about the constitution
threw Ron Paul. The problem is the masses watch the prapagada box. Instead of listening to good radio. The internet or reading about american history. Look how the MSM
including the newspapers, Don’t hardly ever mention Ron paul by name. It amaze me how the people of VT voted for J.Mccain.
He has to be the worst choice. He is a member of the CFR.
You Know Council Foreign Relation. The one moving towards a One World Government.
Dane
Jan 20, 2008
I am having a very bad day. I will just say one thing that is pressing…this universe calls, what you deem choice is only “hard way or easy way”. like i said i am having a bad day…later.
Dane
Jan 21, 2008
I am still very sick, however…you must understand that you can not blame the media either. These people watch what they want, and most of the American public is obsessed with death and destruction. Also, every where I go, I get attacked for no other reason than I tell the truth. I have no friends because I will not assist them in their hatred. They call this “traitor” however, it is the most patriotic thing you can do, no matter where your allegiance lies. Any congress you are within is a nation in itself, and requires of you to act of honor. If this honor requires you stand alone, then so be it. I have been throwing my body at the cinder block wall of HATE, like a flea my entire life. That I knew everybody else was running the other direction screaming like a ten year old girl, has not stopped me. I also know that if they would turn around for just one minute and help, we could punch a hole in it like a 90 grain round at 20 yards. I must say that the majority of American population is most interested in only satisfying their own sick desires. It is very likely they will never come around. I get the most resistence from my supposed “friends”. I am very sick right now because I had to prove to myself that they would actually poison me. If the cup is tainted, to pour it out is paranoia. To consume it is proof. The latter is horrible truth.
Dane
Jan 21, 2008
I will open my heart to you all:
I am to blame. I have let you all down so horribly. I was beaten and tortured for the first 15 years of my life and I did not know how to deal with the world. I have spent much time on my quest, however, It seems that my time would have been better spent gaining respectable ground. I have learned much but have sought little. That I had a bad start may be somebody else’s fault but what I was charged to accomplish and may have not, is my own. Forgive me.
I had a dream last night that a man was walking the streets waving a gun easily yet wildly and killing all in sight ( I saw no dead ). The police and armies of people were retreating, no matter their valiant efforts. I found myself face to face with this man and he had no meaning in his eyes. I dove into the nearest doorway like a coward, and found myself mired in a house with a thousand doors and stairways that led to nowhere. I was trying so hard to find a way out so that I could help battle the assailant, chiding myself openly for my cowardly actions, but I could not find a way out. I finally requested assistance from the many walking dead in this house, they were mostly nonplus, however some seemed combative in their need for secrecy. Some were helpful, yet I still came to so many dead ends on my search until I finally reached dirty windows and a chain link fence that began to portray leaving. I jumped the fence into the day and turned to see the gun wielding man pull the trigger…then I woke up, I think…this is all I can remember, except the feeling of fear is still their and I keep seeing flashes of me diving away ( maybe just what I need ). I did not remember this dream until just now. This is very bad, very, very, very bad. I love you all so very much, please help us all please help us all. Please stop the hate, for it is suicide. I have died a thousand deaths! Please, please, please, please stop.
Anonymous
Jan 21, 2008
Ben Franklin said it best! I thought the question was “income
tax and weather or not it is “moraly” right in the minds of
the majority? We all know what Jesus had to say but Ceasar has been dead awhile now.No statute of limitations? Let’s see
what investors do on Tuesday? Is there truth in wine? or is
it oil? Anyway like to see some humor here once in awhile,
“Can we all get along” Average Joe
Anonymous
Jan 21, 2008
Ben Franklin said it best- thought the issue was
“Income Tax” not sales tax or property tax or import tax?
Not is it “Legal” maybe it is maybe it ain’t but is it
“Moral” ? Is there a better way? Maybe? Maybe not? What’s
Fair? ( fair being- what works for everybody)Monopoly is
supposed to be a game the whole family can play! Pay to Ceasar what is Ceasars’? A shekel just does’nt go as far as it used to. Average Joe (again)
Dane
Jan 22, 2008
Ok anonymous, it seems you still want to debate the side issues. Why? I am loathe to imply. You really want to debate the issue of taxation in the face of the national crisis we are in? You also want to refer to Caesar?(2000+ years ago) And Benjamin Franklin? So just what statement are you referring to? I am sure he had many, I am also sure many of them were wrong (note, a penny saved is certainly NOT a penny earned). Anyone who believes this swill, should go live with Ben. If you make a penny, it is yours to keep and is certainly a penny you own. A penny earned is a penny of increased value…don’t kid yourself, monkey boy, your “sheckle“ should be far exceeding any previous note. You might be better to examine the lack of production in this country, if you are just a Huckite why don‘t you take your thieving “bleep” elsewhere. Taxation is just a government ploy in interest of maintaining their control and subversive empire. A free market society can very well take care of it’s self. Capitalism was doing quite well until the clan of greed decided to get involved and start the secret alliance that has put it’s chains on this nation. This argument of yours sounds very much like another fear tactic of the elitists who do not care to realize this is a world of peoples, and you cannot pressure. You sound so much like you have an alternate agenda. This country is in dire straits because the free market business man keeps giving into the Fed to save it’s own hide, and then is so happy to pass the buck to the worker class that is their bread and butter. Do you know what we really call this kind of person, sir? It is called a traitor and a thief. Don’t think I do not know for one second just what is going on. I am not interested in even wasting my time on you. Not to mention I would rather enjoy my beer right now. Soon, I am going to really unload and surprise the breezes out of you all. Want to see some real knowledge?? Just you wait and see. I love my nation, and it’s peoples and I am so tired of you “spin doctors” trying to take advantage. ’hiccup’ PEACE.
FRANK S
Jan 23, 2008
DANE, I hope your ok. People call me crazy too. I stand with
you and others to win back our and I mean OUR contry back.
Ron Paul is doing well in LA. He has told them the Fed Reserve is responsible for the economy decline. I believe
if we can get the message out,RP stock will rise. People
vote with their wallets and pocketbooks first. Even if Paul
loses. I beleve a movement like the civil rights movement has started. I believe people will march for Freedom against this evil system. Dane you have more friends than you know.
Join a Ron Paul meet up group. You would be surrounded by friends there. Take care of your health first.
Dane
Jan 23, 2008
Much obliged Frank S. I mostly must insist on avoiding people for now. The lines are quite blurry these days, and I expose the skeletons in very short order…not exactly a socialite. Yes, the fools are using quite a method of vengeance, however, death brings with it many questions of accountability, they are more concerned with torture for now…possibly slow death, but there are many things you can do to combat them. You would be amazed at the things I have seen. I do not eat out. You are wise, I support Dr. Paul completely. Peace.
Horus
Jan 24, 2008
Dane.
That was interesting to read. We each do our part on our end. Do you not find that people of good intent should have their brainwashing removed first? Otherwise what is the point?
Peter (not Peter k.)
Jan 25, 2008
I just read all the comments from start to finish. A group of children in the school yard. I don’t have the answers. We are on a ride and can barely hold on till it is time die. We are helpless to face the wealthy. We have a promise from the Messiah to await His return. Be patient. Don’t resist evil. They will have their way and you could be hurt or destroyed.
Michael Hampton
Jan 25, 2008
Resist not evil done to you personally. As for the evil perpetrated by the government, as discussed here, follow the path of Jesus and start throwing tables.
Dane
Jan 25, 2008
There is a very deep seated myriad of hateful doctrines that are, every one of them, mired in vengeance for the past discords they have fostered. The nucleus of these doctrines all begin with control through fear. The worst ones are those that teach people to fear themselves. I have seen, so many times, the destruction of these peoples souls long before they ever become cynical, for to truly hate another, one must first learn to hate them self. One of the worst forms of this hatred is the complacency of apathy. I can never seem to get any average person to even talk to me about the suffering in this world. I understand that I may find some thoughtful politician, or some benevolent benefactor, however, one must understand that these people are only there for inspiration. One of the most diabolical crisis’ to have ever hit this country is the formation of the many foundations by wealthy humanitarians. Not only did it slowly remove the responsibility and understanding of the powerful act of personal charity, it put in place thousands of multi-million dollar trusts and charities (and I use that term very lightly indeed) to then be misused by those entrusted with them, and have put into place some of the most destructive forces in this nation. For people in this nation to keep insisting that one person or entity be the central “good Samaritan” for all, is a very defeating action and brings to bear societal malignancies of terrific proportions, and those charged with these trust’s nearly always seek it’s perversions. We are, after all, only human. (Boys Town, and Larry King, is a very good example, however there are many more aimed at the destruction of American ideals)
Yes, there is much brainwashing, however, if one is true to ones self, then it only causes resistance. The most important thing is to never give in, never sell out or follow the crowd against ones true inner morality no matter how great the congress. If ten thousand people are marching North over a cliff, I am still going to join the five people who are going South. I was sixteen years old when I finally got a chance to live. I found myself mired in much doubt and some perversions. I could see in my mind where these doubts and perversions may take me in twenty or so years. On that day I made a decision to remain always honest to a fault and be prepared to stand on a soapbox if necessary, and proclaim loudly, to any and all, my actions. How? I asked…the question this posed was “what?” On that day I answered, above all, Wisdom. If I had known the heartache, and horrors such a decision would bring me, I may have chose differently, but looking back on it now I would not change it for ANYTHING.
The strangest thing, this “good intent”. I find that most humans will seek charitable behaviors, initially, to subvert their own problems or get a better look at them. The problem is that it is quite effective as this “personal management tool“, so to speak. This, many times, begins a type of self gratifying behavior that can manifest a perverted pathology. This perversion then begins to seek approval in superiority, to an eventual obsession with finding people to help. Unfortunately, this is very destructive because these people always need to resort to creating faults and needs in others that are not there, mainly because they are the types of “needs” these particular persons enjoys “helping” with.
Throwing the tables will do nothing but exacerbate the issue. If one considers their self truly righteous, they can never stoop to such a level. Not to mention, this is not about money, it is about the lack of personal responsibility and moral character decaying this society. Understand just what this nation was charged with maintaining, and realize that because we lost sight of the objective, it now corrodes nearly everything it touches. To claim sovereignty and not maintain it is lunacy. Jesus was a great man, hopefully on can learn from the examples of his teachings and not take them all too literally. For instance, if somebody strikes me, the first thing I am likely to do is lock his arm, and turn him to peaceful submission if possible, but I am no fool.
Be not so concerned with the “answers”, take great care to ask the right “questions”. Seeking answers is a quagmire of dependency, the truth be told, humanity is required by universal law to always ask the question. In query, seek only “the offerings” to dissect.
We are in this crisis of ours and there is always hope, but do not depend upon it. Hope is for those who have not yet found the courage to crawl the chasms edge when all is only loss. Meaning is our guide, seek it diligently and hope shall surely put it’s trust in you. There is so very much to be done…be strong and merciful in your actions, and know that trying times surely await us all. Remember, prayer is a human birthright, and is a personal power tool, not a group mantra. Use it wisely and it will always serve you well. Peacefully, brothers and sisters, for all are worthy.
Anonymous
Jan 26, 2008
What is true today was true yesterday and will be true
tomarrow – and the original sin was actually just a lie,
The author of this lie remains alive and well to this day.
Deception is the currency of those who lead us it seems.
One thing I like about this thread is all who participate
at least share thier view with a sense that what they believe
is the truth.Yes, more than taxes at stake – I did’nt always
agree with Mr. Russo but he did offer some ideas on what
could be done.It begins with honest elections and candidates
that won’t back down when “a thief in the night” counts the
ballets and oops’ they did it again! Is there a profit amongest us? Time will tell. Average Joe
Frank s
Jan 26, 2008
Watching the MSNBC debate. It is clear to see that Ron Paul is being given 1 question to the others four. How can this be allowed when he has more support then Rudy or Hucklebee?I know the answer. The elite in the Federal Reserve fear him.
The CIA fear him. Lets face the truth their BIG money in War.
JFK,RFK,MLK were murdered by this government because they
were all committed to get us out of Veitnam. Ron Paul ascist to do the same thing. A true patriot loves his country
and is not afraid to protest against its government. Don’t be fooled by these canidates who wrap themselves in the flag.
I support our men and women fighting over sea. I don’t support the government who is making them do this. They are
fascist. Gov and corporation in bed together and the hell with the people freedom.
Dane
Jan 27, 2008
JFK was murdered because he was going to expose the Black Royalty and their aims at World Domination, with the implementation of the World Central Bank. He knew their diabolical interests and alliance with the Vatican and it’s mercenaries. Not to mention the Bilderberg Group. Don’t kid yourself, these people are, and will remain, very dangerous. The truth also is that the entire Bush clan is extremely sinister.
The dollar is likely to have been very purposely weakened, however, all must understand that these things do not happen without an enormous amount of collusion. It must be realized that there are an incredible amount of government entities at every level that are making huge profits. And are investing billions of dollars into your enslavement. Just the Judiciary of any state brings in hundreds of millions a year, not to mention, these government “employees‘” huge pension funds. I am talking, community, county, state and federal, not to mention the huge amount of departmentalization’s and civil “servants“. This is literally millions of people who want an evil ruler. This does not even begin to list all of the huge corporations and just plain haters. Then there are even those who cannot legally vote such as all of the foreign interests. I have not done the figures, however, at first glance it seems to be nearly one third of this nation. This is one of the things I mean when I say “we are to blame”.
They purposely destroyed the WTC, and obviously landed flights 93 and 77, and seem to have disposed of their bodies. This is no joke people, it would be very wise to get prepared for some real trouble. Yes, some are beginning to defect, but the best thing we have going for us is our courage. The Bush clan are obviously cowards, and all of these people who are helping them are not joined at the hip. Sometimes (with proper training) it is easier to fight multiple opponents. Use their lack of coordination against them, and learn to sacrifice that which you can bear to lose. Remember the Boy Scout Motto…prepared.
PEACE.
Dane
Jan 28, 2008
“Terrorism need not a bomb, for it lies deep within” Dane.
If you are at the edge you only need lean out to succumb. This is a time for crawling.
Copyrighted material: DEDICATION.
Terror is a part of this world we’ve all been through; certainly no exceptions
Fear is the silent killer when you try to use it as your first impression
Till you’re seething inside of your mind, you say you’d rather die
Then take one more second of pain, now they’ve crossed the line
But if you stop and think before you drop the brink
You will find, this puts you right on time
Dedication and patience begin…you’re right on time
So many lines your heart has had to move, starting over
Leaving all the meaning behind, so much to lose as you run for cover
Remembering the promise only breaks your heart
Over and over again, it’s like you died
But if this teaches you love, when the push comes to shove
You will find that you’re right on time
Dedication and patience will win…don’t break this time
Because I say this…
Hate hath no reason and no rhyme
We’ve been guilty of it too many times
Our world has become so unkind
We must confess our crimes
And begin rising above and putting our love on the line
Let’s get it right this time
Dedication and patience come in…when you heed the signs
I remember every step along the way that I have taken
And though I’ve done my very best I’d be fool to say my mind has not been shaken
Crawling to the chasm’s edge so many times
Screaming into the fire, please take my life
But though my heart is aching
And I’m nearly breaking inside
I know I’m right on time
Dedication and patience within…will keep me right on time
Don’t fear the love, you’re right on time
Don’t fear the peace, you’re right on time
Don’t fear the change, we’re right on time
Dane
Jan 28, 2008
Note: Previous comment is Copyrighted by me. Dane
FRANK S
Jan 29, 2008
Amen Dane, and never give up your freedom for your government excuss for protection. You lose both. I suggest
to all the people reading this to put their money in a safe place. This government is going broke fast. I don’t care how
much they cut taxes they spend it faster than a drunkered sailor. Yes and when they want more the Fed prints more
phoney money. I put my money into gold and valueable metals
at least it has value. The chinese are getting fat sending us their junk. America is into heavy debt to China soon they might call on their loans. If they do here comes 1929 all over again. CRASH!!!
unohoo
Jan 29, 2008
Consider the United States is the only nation that supports Israel. The nation of Israel is #1 in ethnic cleansing. It is #1 in check points. It is #1 in stealing the land and homes of living refugees. It is the only nation that advocates torture. It is the only nation that imprisons peace activists. It is the only nation to legalize assassination. It is the only nation that arrests children for political reasons. It is the only nation that permits by law the destruction of ones house for penalty. It is the only nation that uproots trees as penalty. It is the only nation that occupies another nation while it’s refugees live in tent cities. It is the only nation that prevents children attending schools to hold them at check points. It is the only nation that refuses medical attention to pregnant women at check points (the newborn typically die). It is the only nation to imprison an entire city. It is the only nation to build an ethnic barrier. It is the only nation that advocates destruction of civilian targets. It is the only nation that will torture children…It is the only nation that the United States Government has suggested moving to Arizona and displacing it’s citizens. GET REAL PEOPLE.
All of America had better wake up and I mean quickly…this is no joke. Also, understand I am a US military vet. And I can tell you that these guys get off on killing and torturing people. Do not believe the soundbites. The war is coming home and you had all better get prepared. Not all personnel are like this, however the majority are. I know.
Start stockpiling water and food, and get preparations together for surviving dirty bombs. It is very unfortunate that most Americans are so soft. I hope we have more time than I think, but that is no comfort to a person like me.
Dane
Jan 29, 2008
Excuse me Mr. Anonymous who has not even the courage to advocate his own response?? What is true today has nothing to do with yesterday or anything else…just because you harbor hatreds does not mean you reveal the past nor it’s doctrine’s. Yes the original sin was a lie…thank you master of the obvious. What do you have now? Do you refer to me?? I am the lie? Perfect…of course you have chosen an argument that cannot be wagered until your death. Know this, if the people are within the realm of reality in the universe there is no need for the institution of regulations. Working within the psyche is just following the true creator. You seem to think that you control something because you have convinced people that you talk to the one true “god”. Sorry, knuckle head, I don’t swing that way. I know exactly what is going on. Also, do not misunderstand me, I agree with absolutely everything Aaron Russo says, and I support him whole heartedly. He was an awesome Patriot. All I said was that it took him awhile, I never advocated veering from his reverence. If I ever made anyone feel that way, I apologize whole heartedly. Aaron Russo is, and will always be, my hero. Peace.
Frank S
Jan 30, 2008
unohoo, Your on a website honnoring Aaron Russo. May he rest
in peace. Aaron Russo believed and I hope the others who write here. That 911 was and inside job perpetrated by our own government. To start an illegal war against Iraq &
Afghanistan and soon Iran. To frighten the american people
by taking away their freedoms for safty. Hitler did the same thing. I honnor you service to our country. Now be a Patriot
and stand up to this bullshit. Stay away from MSM. Think how
the fascist elite are trying to heard our people.
Dane
Jan 30, 2008
Relax Frank, I think all unohoo was saying is that the US Government acting like Israel is our friend is just the next plank in their manifesto. It is as if they are using Israel as a blueprint to wage war on it’s own people. I support his views. Israel is a Mecca of invention, and they are even making gas grenades that abort fetuses in pregnant women (inventions they would never get away with in this nation…hint). They also lead the planet in disabled and maimed children. Israel is much more involved in the operation of the US than most people know. Israel is the only nation to have completely absorbed another country and ethnically cleansed it in it’s entirety. Right now they are doing everything they can to sell a peaceful western image, and everybody is likely to fall for it. Everybody is so sold on this “Israel is an oppressed peaceful nation” crap, and that is just not true. They are an evil people hell bent on using the past to justify killing millions. You should research Israel very closely. I am sure you would find that unohoo is right. Peace.
Anonymous
Jan 31, 2008
Dane,It’s getting harder to tell the good guys from the bad ones.
I believe Ron Paul has the right message in this matter.
Be friendly to everyone. Trade with every one but alliances
to none. It’s so frustrateing watching the MSM with its lies.
The masses are like sheep being led to the slaughter. How
can the people after Veitnan. Not see that we have fallen into same sickening slime of preempted war again in Iraq? If we want to know peace. The nation must leave the Middle East.
That’s why voteing for Mccain is such a joke.
Dane
Feb 01, 2008
Agreed, Anonymous, I hope I did not offend. I was knocking a few back, and sometimes you are so vague. The bad guys are those who have not the strength to resist the calls of fear and perversion. This nation, and all it touches is on a spiral of propagandist debauchery that is consuming us like a voracious tornado. I see the hate and the wish for dominance in almost every eye I see. This nation is quickly becoming the most vicious and self destructive force of all…COWARDS! To put our head in the proverbial sand like this nation is doing is beyond words. I am going to rip this country a knew one if it doesn’t wake up. My words are going to cut deeper than any razor ever could. I am starting to really get pissed. What is so amazing is to see how this nation keeps allowing our Government to abuse Korea. This nation and Russia divides that soveriegn country like a piece of meat and is festering some of the most viral hate for this nation that there is on the planet, and it is becoming unnacceptable to me. What do I have to do to get these idiot foriegn policy manipulators to wake up?…run for office? They always want to focus on N. Korea, and pretend it is not KOREA. These people never wanted what the US forced on them, the only reason we have a problem with N and S Korea is because the US wanted some and Russia wanted some. So the US “gobernmnt” decides they should split it, and then put it in a basket with China….BULL—-!!! So now they are talking about invading another leader they have driven to instanity?…weeeeeeeeee….$$$$$IMC$$$$GNP$$$$IMC$$$weeeee.
For all of you who agree with this kind of behavior, and stealing everything the US has…the cockraoches will eat you alive. I was in the military, so don’t talk to me about power. Honor, Courage, Committment…Seper Fidelis.Peace.
RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT.
Dane
Feb 01, 2008
m bad SEMPER
Dane
Feb 01, 2008
People, know this; there is no nation that really wants to attack us. They are just fed up with the CIA running their country and spreading violent terror. There is no nation on this earth that really wants to take on the resolve of the American public. Can you imagine just what would happen if we were ACTUALLY ever attacked by a nation? (Pearl Harbor doesn’t count, that was orchestrated too). We would wipe out any threat and send a shock wave of truth across this planet like none has ever seen. Instead, we are actually attacking a third world country for oil, and dope, in the name of a treasonous saboteur. It would be very wise for all Americans to begin getting involved and standing up for this humanity before there is none able to do such. Banks and politicians are bleeding this nation to it’s knees, we must unite and take back our country. Peace.
Dane
Feb 01, 2008
My bad…except for an inside job type arraingment with Israel, who by the way also has many nukes able to reach US soil. This administration did it once already!
Frank.S
Feb 02, 2008
Dane I was the letter writer of the E-mail you started the
response. AGEED. I forgot to put down my name. It helps to
know the players my apology. It looks like my e-mail egnited
a spsrk in you. You knock off three letters in a row. Which
I think was the most impressing reading on this site. Well
done.
Dane
Feb 03, 2008
Much obliged Frank. I am now impressed with your responses, of course (quite honorable). However, my initial response to “anonomous” wich can be easily viewed as hostile, was to “average joe”. The comment to you which began “agreed” is of certain veracic value. You are obviously a true missionary at heart. I trust the mission is liberty. Peace.
Dane
Feb 05, 2008
I would just like to take a moment to say that I did not mean that all Israel is evil, I just meant that their policy’s and obvious collusion by many is extremely noteworthy. It is imperative that one not stoop to the level of those they oppose. I am a lover of all people, and I am more for change, than revolution. Peace.
Dane
Feb 05, 2008
Greetings Matt:
It seems we have a major problem. I have now been subjected to the personal favors of my community because they do not like my views. Why I say this is because I have been victimized time and again with no avenue for reprisal, and so I spoke out loudly. I have been subjected to vandalism, terrorism of my property (water tank) and I am in a position to suffer the poisoning of dog feces in my general walking area, which is illegal (all of which are illegal), but when I exercise my first amendment right to protest this (legally), I am threatened with eviction. Note: the eviction process is still governed by courts. I will not be deterred from my legal rights by such thuggery. Those around me have broken the public trust and violated the law in many respects, I have followed the law in all respects and I will be heard. I challenge you to debate me on this issue. If not, then send to me in writing, your understanding of my position (this I now require). That you collect the rent does not put you in a position of power. You are in a position of accountability and that is all. I am a man of realism, and I follow the laws of the Universe. I can assure you that all must comply. This assurance is not as revolutionary as some might assume. Just do your job and do it well, they want to love you. Peace.
Pardon me folks, I just wanted this on record because I am battling on a lot of fronts right now. I want people to understand that I am in reality and any indication to deterr from such is fantasy.
I am a patriot and you are the traitors. I am speaking law while you are demanding mob rule. I am not in a position to keep putting you on track…so to speak. I do not want to be your (bleep) prophet. WAKE UP YOU JERKS and meet it within reality, or WITNESS THE DEMISE.
Frank S
Feb 05, 2008
I just recieved a phone message from Ron Paul. Thanking all of of us who support him and urging us all to vote. The message was prerecorded for many to hear. Today is Super Tuesday. I work in NYC. The NY Giants are being honnor with a victory parade down Broadway. I enjoyed the celebration. To top it off I am going to my voteing place and vote for Ron Paul. I hope many will do the same.
Dane
Feb 05, 2008
Thank you very much for allowing me a site I can document some of my personal battles. I love all of you true Americans very much. This is a war of epic proportions, I wish you all the best. No, I do not condone reprisal, I do however condone firing when you see the whites of their eyes…what sadness they have inflicted upon us all. Peace.
Dane
Feb 06, 2008
I have warned that I may stop pulling punches, this is a taste of what I mean. The vision was actually about two weeks ago. The comments are just the truth. I am growing less and less concerned with people’s personal feelings, mainly because they hide the light.
More dreams.(Nightmares)
I am at the ocean, it is nice and people seem to know, or be requesting of, my name and want to sit and smoke with me. I walk away. I am surfing violent waves until the water is no more (extremely violent and committing. For those who know, they were all utopic close-outs that would leave me walking). It is nighttime and I am among young white adolescents who are noticeably bicyclers (small racing bicycles). In the houses I can seem to find no water. The bathroom sinks are many, but cluttered by flowers and vases, and there is always an attendant. I am in a room now and there is a tiny beast that seems to be rolling around writhing on a blanket. I reach down to pick it up and find it is a little baby chick covered in feces, so I wipe it off, and it is so cute and cuddly, bright yellow and fuzzy. There are two little girls now, and one is chiding me for holding the chick and I am trying to tell her it was all messy, and that she must take better care of it…
I am in a mall now and the people are all so very nice looking, but I am fearful. I see that they are burbling and conversing, but vacant and notice nothing around them. I exit a door…(so much here is fuzzy)…the people seem to be turning to fanged demons with black eyes, grabbing and dragging at me. The men are bearded now and resembling Orks or Vikings with large teeth and fangs. Very powerful looking. Outside of the doorway it is daylight, I am on a ledge that is like a highway stretching out to my right along a mountainside. Cliffs up and down, with a railing at the roads edge. I know they all are calling to me. There is some violence. Suddenly everything is being sucked into a painted door in the side of the mountain. I am dodging objects and people as they fly past me. I am amazed at the velocity of the things being sucked in, some, it seems, are almost instantaneous as they vanish into the mountain. Some things do not move as I cannot avoid them. Suddenly I feel him, even before I see him, and I know he commands all. But he is calm in his demeanor and easy to look upon and only requests my compliance, I do not believe it is quite that simple.
I am back in the mall now. There are many party’s beginning, and much food and drink being consumed and many happy, beautiful people, but they all are somewhat smirking and it is difficult to see their eyes. He is coming near me now as I attempt to pass him at the top of a small stairway. He reaches out and touches my back, between the shoulders, and the feeling is pleasure like I have never known, but not in a sexual way. I am pulling away in search for the open door. He touches me again and all pain is gone, I am almost overcome by the pleasure of his touch (it is the most realistic thing I have ever felt in any dream, it was amazing and very startling). He is smiling and very charming in nature, he is white skinned, but his hair and eyes are black, also his clothes are black. I am beginning to run from him, and he does not follow. He calls to me from a marble and stone patio, like a porch at the top of curving, dual marble stairways, to the entrance of a dining room. He is flanked by two pretty females and says that all is well and I will not be harmed, I do not believe him. I am searching for a way out and passing people being seated for the feast. I must avoid the sitting hind quarters of beautifully gowned women as I pass between them and their couches. I begin looking for an exit that is not resembling of such and easily find a passage. I reach out and touch the wall as it forms a gate, then a door, and it opens easily.
I am in the dusk of the day now and am very far from town, the mall now resembling a small outbuilding or rear of a rural market. I see a man playing golf in a shabby, weeded field near some large piles of mulch, his ball lying on a dirty, tufted mound, and he is using an old wooden fairway club. Failing fences line the field and there is a farmhouse of sorts in the distance. I ask if he knows which way the town is (I seem to remember I was not far from it). He chuckles and says it is hours to the west (but I can‘t be certain of the direction, it was difficult to see the setting sun for the clouds). A man surprises me coming slowly from my right, and he is pushing a wheel barrow stacked with various supplies. He requests I change my clothes, “don’t you know?” he says “you must change clothes”, but I resist and back away. He is holding out some white and blue clothing as I move away (this worries me because we are red, blood red). I am running now, through the field toward a fence where the farmhouse is, and there are many deer in pens and they all are watching as I begin to climb the fence…thousands of deer with shiny eyes, but none with strong antlers. I am climbing the fences to more fences and wading through small crowds of little beasts, they do not bite. So many rotting fences to climb. I know I must escape, but to where? I can remember no more at this point, but I know there is more. I think maybe some very vicious battle…I can feel the apprehension and need for force. I see bogs of mud and I seem mired in it, almost hiding in it, unfortunately I have so many of these dreams and this is reminiscent of another of the recurring ones. But alas…I cannot be certain. I can assure you this vision will come again, these kind are always repetitive for me. Note: while I have used drugs before, I do not use them now, however, I am a definite lover of fermented “hoppy” libation. But it is not necessary for such visions. I am, however, a salient. I prefer to use the term “beautiful mind”.
I have had so many of these nightmares, however, they never meant so much until now. I, most times, considered them only manifestations of my many years of torture. I have awoken so many times with claw marks on my chest and throat. I know they are from no other person. I have slept under very secure locks and traps for many years. I am a very logical person and have lived a life of self denial for the want of paranoia’s. Many people have called me paranoid, but that is so strange when I keep being proven right. I have made so many statements that have proven to be nothing short of prediction. I have warned of so many things, (HIV, failed landfills, poison water, mycotoxins, religious extremism, true nexus of party lines, the BAR, Vatican/Nazi alliance, optimism and protagonists, terrorism, secret societies, subconscious hatreds, etc…the really scary ones I keep to myself) but nobody is listening. It does not fit their pleasure. Even my family is not protective of me. But then I do not expect anything real from such torturous humans. The only reason it ever stopped is because I stopped it. What was challenged of me that day? “Go ahead, hit me, beat me, you know you want to, you‘re a big man now, huh?“. I disarmed the evil and replied…“I would not give you the pleasure“, and dropped the weapon as I strolled out the door. I call this “Breaking the cycle of violence”.
I am not the paranoid type. I am the kind of person who will just eat the poison rather than listen to my gut tell me that it is tainted. I have had the displeasure of these poisons so many times. I have realized that they are not for murder, no, they are for torture, and they need not proof of their sinister offerings to be pleased. I have been privy to the gloating…so much gloating. I am more than nauseatingly amazed. There is so very much vengeance in this nation…so many hateful people. I see it in their eyes, all are like a pane of glass to me, thus I live in constant terror. I do not need somebody to blow up a building, anyone who will get mad at somebody for nothing more then that person is correct or telling the truth, is a terrorist. People seem to want to live by some idiotic Mobster code or some prison rule. I am so sick of people‘s perversions. I have been to prison (undeservedly) and I walked alone through the entire thing. I was forced to fight fourteen black men at once. No, I did not come out of it looking so good, some fell, but I never hit the ground and they never lived it down. The guards grilled me for a couple hours in the infirmary…”I fell off of my bunk…yeah, well, you bounced about fifty times then. Where do you want move to?…nowhere, take me back to my cell”. I limped back into that block, and many were the fearful eyes through the small windows of the cell doors I passed, I am certain my anger and belligerence were evident. They came to me shortly to remit many offerings (clothes they had stolen, cigarettes, a mattress, etc.) and claim apology as it was not their choice, but the request of one very powerful person I had offended (by refusing to resort to serious injury or murder in county jail). The basic MO of that block (for those who understand, this was the “fish tank”) was to brace the white men who cannot stand alone, and demand a peace offering. This was usually informed to them by some other white guy in the cell next to him, so that he could just place it outside of his cell. I was appalled, so I caused a few riots, unified these cowardly brothers, and changed that. I then hit the yard and was forced to fight the biggest, baddest Mexican that group could throw at me. I was not marked by the shot callers because I refused to kill him and just let him drop and told the screaming, blood thirsty crowds… NO. I then was hailed by these shot callers and told I had acted more honorably than anyone and I would not be harmed. I was then put in a cell with another black man who lost to me easily and began to beg. I showed mercy, however, he then tried to produce a little cut and claim I had attempted to kill him with a razor. I was then blindsided by some black men, but it was of no consequence. So many have been surprised at the futility of their cowardly sucker punch, unfortunately, a few have succeeded in bringing me down, but not without assistance from others. Yep…size matters, but not for what you clowns think. I have proven time and again, the bigger you are, the harder you fall. Take note, I am only five nine and three quarters tall and generally weigh less than one hundred seventy pounds. Depending on how I present myself I look like Matt Damon, Jesus of Nazareth, Brad Pitt or Robert Redford, as people would say. There have been some others, but basically I look like Dane.
I have “been there” and I have “done that“, and nobody, I mean NOBODY can even pretend to attempt to tell me how it is. I have consumed the horrors of this world like a black hole, and have shed a light most people cannot even see. Know this, the request of Political Correctness of homosexuality is of no good worth. To be so incessant of gender dominance and self loathing is not a good thing. No, you should not hate or attack people, however, you must resist perversion. Gay men are some of the most passive aggressive hateful people I have ever seen. The pedophilia of these people is also well documented. Many are very pissed off at the world, and love degrading and dominating people. Of course nobody wants to believe that a toe tapping, parasol spinning, cross dresser would be dangerous, however, I have been studying true human nature for decades and I am telling you to be very afraid. No, I have never been butt raped or anything, but I have been hit on by all men, even those who are just curious, and I know the tendencies well and where they originate. I had a huge black man corner me in a cell and say “yeah boy I like it when they resist” I said, “well, your sure going to be happy today, because this is likely the day you die”, he left me alone. I found out the next day that an hour later he walked into a cell with two men in it, punched one to the ground and raped them both. Understand that it is only because they allowed it to happen. They were not courageous enough to resist. You would have to kill me first, but then there is no fun in that, because the raping of a man is for dominance, not for hate like the many rapes of women. Those who rape women for pleasure are just those who don’t know what side they are on, dominance or hatred. Their behaviors, to a man like me, are very transparent in their various originations. And know this also…they deny of both genders equally. There is no need for conspiracy when all are consumed by the same lie. No matter how much fun it might seem to play “pee-pee” party with your favorite buddy, the truth is that there is a very sinister line that needs to be crossed, and in this day and age the lines are so blurred no man should be attempting to do such battle with the self, especially when we can’t even take the proper role of benevolent leader in the relationship with our women.
I know exactly what the people in this country are all about. I know how much they despise those of true righteous strength. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is not dead because he was black, it is because he was truly righteous, and was fighting for all peoples against the disgusting wretched cowards of this planet. I know these cowards cannot do anything noticeable because that would begin to expose them all. So they must resort to damaging property, pissing in peoples coffee, discrimination, perjury, poisoning cocktails, rape, coercion, passive aggressive behavior, secret hater alliances, secret societies, bribery, assassinations, the list goes on, but what do all these things have in common?…THEY ARE ALL FORMS OF TERRORISM.
I have never known any man as easy to bring to perverse or murderous intention as those who believe in a god, whether evil or just vengeful. So many of these people seem to have no true respect for human life on this Earth. The only persons who have ever told me I was going to die for no good reason, are ones who believe in gods…many times for no other reason than I do not believe as they do. The complacency of these people is massive. Anybody who believes that eventually (especially when things are coming to obvious evil fruition) the end is coming, will be certain never to do anything to prevent it, no matter how logical. These people seem to be obsessed with the end so that somehow they are vilified in their sick beliefs. I was told, by a minister, that I was going to die (when I was fighting cancer) because I did not believe in god. This man (wearing a wedding band) then proceeded to say some of the most vulgar things I have ever heard, to one of the female nurses, in hopes of getting her into the nearest toilet for some sexual interaction. She came to me later and exclaimed, “the nerve of that guy to tell you that you are going to die!” You may note that I am obviously still breathing. This nation is bringing upon it’s self certain destruction. It is only logical. One cannot do such things so obsessively and blatantly for too long of a period.
I am almost certain I am not long for this world. I do wish for you all, the strength you will need. Rely on true righteousness, for it is the most powerful. I say… GET YOURSELF RIGHT, OR CERTAINLY WITNESS THE DEMISE. Peace.
Dane
Feb 06, 2008
not here?
Dane
Feb 06, 2008
Well, they don’t want to print the long comment of truth that I posted. I will say this. This nation is getting ready to put Clinton or McCain in the hot seat. The worst thing that could happen is to get the youngster in there…Obama is already bought and paid for. Why do so many people act as if Hillary has any experience either? Just beause she was blowing Bill maens nothing. McCain is just a psycopath, and talks like a robot. That idiot is so full of hate he pisses black pus. If you have the ability to get out of the country, that is likely the wisest thing one could do. I wish I could.
Dane
Feb 07, 2008
First, I apologize for the very long comment, it reads awfully and I may have detracted from the main points. The integrity of this site, to have posted it, amazes me. I am in awe. As much as I am wishing I had not posted it, I hope those who read it will understand just what it says. I am a great believer in truth, no matter how disgusting. Aaron Russo was obviously more of a patriot than I thought. I have been fighting this greedy nation’s complacency and hate all of my life, thank you Mr. Russo for doing what you could to ensure it was not in vain.
Romney would also be a big mistake. This man just wants politics as usual, and is going to use his fantasy (faith) to wage even more war. If Dr. Paul does not make it into the White House, many of us are in for some very hard times.
Note: I was with people on 911 that claimed prior knowledge and stated facts that I now know were not just bull. They could not have known such things. I also have known drug dealers and the likes that could stroll into the White House easier than most politicians…just what do you all think this nation is doing? I am no fool, I know exactly what is going on. The only reason it is happening is because hundreds of millions of people are so ready to sell their soul to the highest bidder. I will say it again…GET YOURSELF RIGHT, OR CERTAINLY WITNESS THE DEMISE. Peace.
Dane
Feb 08, 2008
This turned into another huge comment, so I just erased the rest and left this part in since it is dear to my heart.
Why are people all across this nation so depressed? Oh, that’s right, we must have a mental problem. I have been living a life of horror for what I see coming, and I will never take any pill that closes my eyes to the truth. It couldn’t be that your whole life is now coming under control of the Government. That you are now becoming subservient and silenced from cradle to grave. It couldn’t be that you found out that the atrocities of this planet are being met with a blind eye, and deaf ears. It couldn’t be because everything you have ever been taught about freedom and liberty is a big lie, and this nation is the largest perpetrator of human torture and death on the planet. It couldn’t be because the CIA is pumping millions of tons of illicit drugs into this country and destroying our neighborhoods and citizens. It couldn’t be because the Government is now controlled by big business, so that the courts will not protect you. So now they can just use politicking and lobbying to steal hundreds of thousands of jobs and pensions. It couldn’t be because now everywhere you go and almost every person you speak to says “don’t worry about it, just take care of yourself…live and let die”. This is not America anymore. Far too many people are using it as a meal ticket and a haven for their interpretation of freedom. A place to exert their pressure that we all follow the laws of the country they are running from. Rules that have nothing to do with the laws of this country. This is not a Democracy, it was never meant to be. This is a Republic ruled by the courts who are mandated to be governed by laws that are based on the US Constitution. So many come to this country just seeking POWER, not freedom, not liberty. I see no African American, no Asian American, no Irish American, no Indian American… I only recognize a TRUE AMERICAN, and I say, if you don’t want to play by the rules and be good, honest, morally sound INDIVIDUALS who will uphold the Constitution and fight daily for the rights of ALL PEOPLE to be unmolested…THEN GET THE HECK OUT.
Dane
Feb 08, 2008
Race needs to be taken out of the Presidential elections. Is it just me, or is Obama’s book “Dreams of my father…race and inheritance” (exact title escapes me) a very racial literary offering? He is trying to unite some overseas country with us now? I mean I am all for equality, but the fact that he talks at great length about his father (Kenyan; Black) and says almost nothing about the “white chick” that his father nailed to produce his wonderful Kenyan hide (that he claims is forever betrothed to his people there) is a bit much. I don’t care what your color, or your intentions, I just despise racism. Unfortunately, Obama seems very racist. I do not trust him at all. He is also an ex junkie from what I can tell. How do you admit to smoking Marijuana, snorting Coke, and then say “I might have tried Heroin”? I mean, he did or he didn’t. If he is making statements like that, I am almost certain he is still on the “horse”. Maybe he is on something else he thinks he can handle (he can’t even quit smoking). I must admit, he does look a bit strung to me. I almost want to request a UI.
Dane
Feb 08, 2008
I meant UA
Dane
Feb 12, 2008
Know this, people have been in my house. I came home today to a partially dismantled computer, we are screwed. You people had better wake up, hell is certainly on the rise.
FRANK S
Feb 13, 2008
Dane,As Benjamin Franklin once said. ” IF WE DON’T ALL HANG TOGETHER WE WILL ALL HANG SEPARATELY.” Remenber our founding fathers all faced death for treason. When Patrick
Henry said,”GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH” That is exactly what he faced if the revolution failed. They have past the torched to all of us who believe in freedom.
Liberty is not a given . It must be fought for from the
fascist who run our monetary system. The Federal Reserve and the CFR are todays King George the 3rd.
Dane
Feb 14, 2008
Lawrence King, ripping off his credit union clients (40M) and running a child porn ring that sells kids to the White House and top US officials? People are turning prison rape of innocent victims into a punch line? Sex is used to sell everything? Torture has been the 1 choice of coercion for law enforcement in this country for hundreds of years? America has the largest percentage of irresponsible and misbehaved parents on the planet? Americas students have by far the lowest test scores and rampant cheating of any major country? Basic health and life expectancy is declining at an unprecedented rate? Only five percent of the nation reads?
“Who cares?” they say, “I’ve got mine, it is not my responsibility to worry about the other guy”.
“What’s that you say? I’m getting ripped off?! I don’t have to pay income tax?!!”
“Well, call the Governer, I am pissed now!!!”
Suddenly everybody is up in arms. Suddenly everybody notices what they think is important in the Constitution. The United States Constitution has many aritcles, ammendments and various proposals of the latter. It has been getting absolutely stomped on for a century by many government officials, but mostly, by PRIVATE CITIZENS. The ratified portion is specific to the articles which instruct on law and government limitations. Moreover, there are many very important ammendments which also give very explicite instructions on just how Americans must also conduct themselves and behave toward their neighbor’s. It is like a Bible of instruction. That so many fail to heed it’s words, yet still demand it’s protections, is lunacy. Peace.
Dane
Feb 14, 2008
One hundred parents were informed that the CIA sells illicite drugs in this nation by the millions of tons per year, to prop up the economy and stock market. They were also informed that it is destroying their neighborhoods and children. When asked if they would stop it if doing so meant that they would lose money…99 out of a hundred said NO! When informed that it means their young daughter cannot walk to the local market and back safely…they still replied NO!!
This stupid nation can kiss my ass!!!
Dane
Feb 14, 2008
Take into consideration that Oliver North is being paraded around to pretend that he is somebody this nation can trust.
Do people forget so quickly? He was just a fall guy anyway. He lied through his teeth.
No matter what he did in some manufactured conflict like Vietnam or some covert operation, he is just a murderer and drug dealer. Those “big” men love terrorizing women and children and picking off unarmed civilians. It is no big secret anymore so what is “Olly” doing on faux news pretending to have any shred of credibility as he claims who is responsible for the strategy of strapping a bomb to a mentally ill woman or a child? Or just what the level of our vulnerablity here at home? I wouldn’t trust him with a pellet gun.
Dane
Feb 16, 2008
There is no way Billary is electable. The smear that will come out concerning her lack of integrity and veracity as she takes a secret seat at the Bilderbergers maniacal table. The crooked campaign solicitations that have her felonious cackling voice on tape. The fact that it puts the penile “stogie” back in the drivers seat. Say’s there is no way. Mc Shame will get fried the first month and Shucksgollee would be hard pressed to gain any ground on Obomber. One thing is for sure, if this country is too stupid to put real leadership like Ron Paul in the White House, they will deserve the Neo Con war machine that strips this entire planet of all dignity until Putin sends his answer to Americas systematic destruction of all. At least we will already be involved in a war over the 2nd amendment, and will likely not even notice the flash. Like rivers in the street. America will fight back, we always do. To all the minions who have been brainwashed into pretending you do not owe anybody any respect…try that crap with me and you will be the first to fall, I don’t care what happens after that. Peace.
Dane
Feb 17, 2008
I can’t tell if H R Clinton is Fascist or Communist (does it really make much difference?). She is obsessed with Public Financing, and sells it with the catch phrase “getting the money out of politics”. This is just the manifestation of it’s will, the last vestige of freedom, lost to the whims of the state. And the people are all cheering for their own enslavement. Her plans have nothing to do with taking the POWER out of government. When a government gets so rich as the US has, and then proposes mass Public Financing, basically they are now just using the money to control the population. The terrifying issue is that we all should know by now that they cannot be trusted with such absolute power. They are maniacle and deluded.
H’itle’R Clinton is even proposing projects such as a Public Service Academy to indoctrinate would be ranks of political hopefuls. What would be the requirement to run for office in 30 years or so? Most definitely an entry to the PSA, which will be monitored closely to make sure each and every “student” (PSA youth) adheres to the “knowledge” (propaganda) of the curriculum. What would be the consequences for opposing the teachings or questioning the authority? Most certainly disbarrment from any leadership role or political action.
H’itle’R Clinton also wants to buy up the Health Care system in the entire nation. She wants it to be completely run by the state and of course with the socialist vision vivid in her mind she sees fit to garnish wages of select citizens to help get it off the ground. Who are the select, one might ask? Does it really matter? The plan is excessively flawed to begin with, it has been government involvement in the process that has brought so much malfeesence and deficiency. I’m sure everybody is going to love it when she demands the entire population get inoculated with hundreds of vaccines that will kill millions with it’s hidden eugenics agenda.
These idealogical half-wits are going to smash this country to smithereens if the people do not wake up. It is the slow poisoning of America’s minds and bodies that is allowing these tyrrants to take control. This nation’s citizens must wake up and begin to fight back. We do not need the government to run our lives. People of this, and the last generation must look closely at the past, and the tricks that the government has played on the minds of the public with all of the fear mongering. The Clintons are closely tied to some very shady terror cells. The administrations have all sold the public on an image necessant of reliance, rather than a policy of non intervention and personal responsibility. Please people, it really is not that hard to take care of yourself. Don’t just sit there and let them take everything that makes us human. WE ARE NOT SLAVES!!! I am not a slave, I love the freedom of personal responsibility, I do not need nor want anybody to shelter me. There is much more security in self sufficient communities and free trade.
Say no to Fascism and the megalomaniacle military complex…VOTE RON PAUL.
Dane
Feb 19, 2008
H’itle’R Clinton is certainly turning out to be the most interesting candidate, and by interesting I mean scary…no, terrifying. I keep digging and digging with seemingly no end in sight. She hasn’t just been around the block, she has a plaque on every corner. Bed fellows such as Ira Magaziner, founder of Telesis in 1979, and Donna Shalala, one time Chancellor of Univ. Wisconsin-Madison (and control freak), should send up flares. Her constant, almost obsessive relations with world renowned corporate strategists and human resorces icons is very telling, when you consider her “Hillery Care” indictment and penchant for secrecy. Her true colors are beginning to show, not that I ever liked her, I just didn’t know how dangerous she really was. Magaziner was also Bill’s Senior Advisor.
It is very obvious just why H’itle’R Clinton ever got involved in activism. It was not because she wanted to help people that she felt were being unjustly treated, no, it was because she considered herself superior to them and they need her help and guidance. She has consistently surrounded herself with those who are leftist to the point of Socialism and Communism. Authoritarians who always attempt to control. Donna Shalala, as Chancellor of UWM, created “speech codes” subjecting students to disciplinary action for percieved “hate speech”. This was of course determined to be unconstitutional. She then revised the faculty “speech code” broadly restricting “harmful” speech, both in instruction and non-instruction capacities. This was abolished ten years later, after many professors where investigated for alleged or supposed offenses.
Clinton’s queer obsession with controlling the worlds children, is also an alarming issue. “Containmtent and Change” is a very interesting title for a book she claims to still adore. I know that her long time, and still, mentor and friend Carl Ogleby wrote it, though I have not had a chance to read it. I understand his mindset, however, and I am worried it is all about forcing a “better” life on people through Government Reform and federally run programs. Of course Shalala fits right into the middle finger of the glove, she was Cchairman of the Childrens Defense Fund from 1992-93 before being the only person to hold the position of Secretary of Health and Human Services for the full eight years under Bill Clinton. The worst thing…the terrifying thing, about H’itle’R Clinton is that she could easily lead this nation to ruin and never even realize it. A kind of, she knows best, policy. Her fondness of authoritarians who seek to silence the voices of the people, is extremely peculiar when you consider she began her journey as an activist…or did she?…was it all just a set up?…a covert infiltration?…a commy shill? I can say one thing for sure, it is looking worse every layer I uncover. I am confident any half intelligent house plant realizes the quid pro quo that elicited her support during Lewinsky Gate, and doomed us all to this circus of an election. How did GW Bush get away with plaigiarising the pitch, “No Child Left Behind”? (initially coined by the CDF). The “Clinton-Bush” dynasty theory rears it’s ugly head yet again.
Her good friend Magaziner is also going to get back in the picture if she is elected, he is still on the payroll, and acting as Director of the William Jefferson Clinton Foundation’s International Development Initiatives. The foundation plays a leading roll in non governmental organizations addressing Global Health and Environment issues.
Say no to Clinton, say no to Fascismic Communism…VOTE RON PAUL!!!
Dane
Feb 19, 2008
In other words, the Clinton’s also have megalomaniacal visions of ruling the World.
Dane
Feb 19, 2008
I can guarantee one thing, this nation’s power structure of despot’s and traitor’s will certainly soon expect the US military to attack their own people. Posse Comitatus is on the ropes. It is obvious, with the many military exercises in US cities and towns, that this regime has every intention of using the military to control it’s own population. Rome and it’s bid for world domination grew out of an event of despotism and a military Coup De Etat because Cesar eventually led the Army across the Rubicon. History is repeating itself. The current regime’s combination of military and police is breeding an entirely new faction of security who’s one and only intention is, terrorism of the law abiding citizens in this country. All servicemen and women (including police) are being indoctrinated with a quick draw intent. FaTS (firearms training systems Inc) is the baby of ex CIA Official, Peter Moreno, who was in charge of much of CIA’s very successful MK Ultra projects. FATS actually distributes a pamphlet that states “any agency employing their services are protected from liability against use of excessive force”. This agency is the leading choice for the training of troops and police around the world. It is certainly no wonder to me when I see the violence and brutality being perpetrated on children and frail old women, by our “bravest and brightest”. Talk about believing your own lies. Be warned people, these brainwashed militants will show you no mercy. Ask yourself…do they deserve any?
We must resist. We must begin to take action. Investigate the training and policies of your local Police. Form Police Oversight Committees and SWAT Watch groups in your local area. We must begin to pre-empt the pre-emption through political, beaurocratic and civil intervention. Start asking questions and getting involved. Make requests to de-fund these maniacal regimes intent on a police state. There are many peaceful things that can be done to avert the disastrous course these administrations have set this nation on. The citizens of this nation are not just given the right to civil disobedience, they are ordered to do so in the face of such an assault on everything we hold dear. We were given a responsibility over two hundred years ago to preserve this great nations founding principles. To fail our forefathers in such an hour of need would not only destroy us, but all who are counting on us to not let the murderous Neo Con Fascists in our government prevail.
Rise up America, stand tall and be heard. Do not relegate yourselves to a life of fear and paranoia. This is not Nazi Germany, this is America…fight for her. Peace.
Average Joe
Feb 20, 2008
The beat goes on! lotteedateedee-lateedateedie
Hey Peter, did I spell that right? (I mean correctly)
Face it folks,there’s money in all this madness.
“Greed is Good”"-never give a sucker an even break” -”maximum
profit for minimum effort”-”am I my brother’s keeper?”
Same Guy talking. “nothing new under the Sun?” What is truth?
Can you fight City Hall? Does your vote coun’t?
The Ben Franklin ref: Was “death and taxes”.The Ceasar ref:
was “who’s image is on a coin? (Ceasar’s)and the answer was
then “pay back to Ceasar what is Ceasars” (JC)
I’m not a Bible thumper, just appreciate the wisdom of some
enlightend people that saw the folly of it all! Average Joe
Dane
Feb 22, 2008
Joe: Yes, I assumed those are the sayings you were referring to, my statement still stands (“I’m sure many of them were wrong”). So strange to pit straw men against the blaze, nefariously confusing the issue with such a pitiful word as “guarantee”, I chose not to argue such a ridiculous statement. You certainly are bestowed the right to believe as you wish. If these sayings somehow placate your fears and legitimize your cowardly complacency, I am not surprised, that is what they were designed to accomplish. I am certain you also strongly advocate “compromise”, while many tout it as a win-win, it is more often than not, a lose-lose. If all you care about is yourself and what you can get, I hope you find great comfort in your thirty pieces of silver. For your sake I am tempted to vaguely reply “Thomas Jefferson said it best”, however I am not one to leave people guessing…i.e. “I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty”. Boorish as it may sound, I truly wish you, and those of your persuasion, would return to the hell that spawned you. Peace.
Average Joe
Feb 22, 2008
Is this a toll road or can anybody use it?
When I discovered this thread I was under the impression
it was dedicated to the beliefs of Aaron Russo, pro or con.
Why the name calling? Why is it always about you? Clean hands?who cares? It gonna take people willing to get their hands dirty to untangle this ball of string called Earth.
You say you were in public service? you don’t even seem to like people.We’re on the same side believe me!The machine is up and running!I believe the Constitution still can protect U.S.as it is.Apathy is the enemy.The right to vote is all we have.When they steal that what alternative is there?
Civil disobedience? I don’t think so!So as I asked before,
any solutions? Average Joe- (from Hell)
G
Feb 24, 2008
I recently looked over my netflix queue and Freedom to Facism was mysteriously removed by netflix, which made me suspicious. So I searched for it online and luckily found a link to it on googlevideo. It’s a must-watch!
Peter K.
Feb 24, 2008
Too bad the apparent good judgment of Netflix is not universal. That film is so jam-packed with misinformation, the late Mr. Russo makes Michael Moore look objective and accurate by comparison.
A basic tip on legal research: If you want to find out what a Supreme Court case says, open up that Supreme Court case and READ it. DO NOT rely on the interpretations of that case by a guy (Irwin SchifF) who has made a career of getting himself and others put in jail and/or having property seized, all because of his confusion and misunderstandings of Supreme Court cases.
DO NOT get distracted from the cause of liberty and small government. That film is a distraction.
Dane
Feb 24, 2008
Goodness Joe, what is wrong with you? As much as it is true that this is an Aaron Russo site, you seem to be completely resistant to his core beliefs, or maybe you just don’t know what they really are. He did not only talk about the Fed Res and taxes. I called you no names you did not first call yourself. I said nothing about public office, just that a real man will be trying to help, not profit from this “madness”. Your last statement was a self deprecating, worthless steaming pile of Fascismic vomit. How do you expect me to respond? I love my country so much, and it is people who think as you do that are destroying it daily (at least those who think as you last wrote). You say such harmful things, such self serving attacks on all that we are fighting for. I have been chugging beers with my buddies but I don’t care…I still am going to rant at you right now. You don’t care enough to keep your hands clean? you think that this is all just an opportunity for you to rake in some tidy profits? You would have loved Nazi Germany. My country is sowly being incrementally savaged from the inside out and you are talking like a traitor. I am prepared to die for this cause and you are talking about your Nazi bank account, piss on you. I almost want this country to fall into depression so that I can meet you some day searching for a pair of shoes. This is very much a time for civil disobedience. I also have begun giving advice concerning community oversight committees, SWAT watch programs, political initiatives, write your congress (must I be one of the few?), investigate your local police (it is our tax dollars that support them), GET INVOLVED AND QUIT SEEKING PROFIT. I must go, as I am really intoxicated…more to come. Peace.
Nominimum
Feb 24, 2008
Anyone notice that Russo was completely ignored in the Oscar “In Memoriam” Yearly Tribute? Media blackout?”
Dane
Feb 24, 2008
Joe: In case you did not understand, the “public service” portion was the quote by Thomas Jefferson. I thought it was obvious by the “” but I guess not.
Dane
Feb 24, 2008
Awesome, Nominimum, 11:11s are my most inflective portions of each and every day. I am certain to seek the obvious weight of your words. Peace.
Dane
Feb 25, 2008
Jeez Joe, you actually said “never give a sucker an even break”. Are you kidding me? I could punk you like a ten year old girl. I just can’t help myself, I keep on thinking of so many things I want to say to you right now…I am giong to shut up cause I know I am in an intoxicated state, but I really resent your departure from reality. Peace.
Dane
Feb 25, 2008
Excellent Peter K, some true wisdom. For so many people to be jumping on the anti-tax bandwagon as a precursor to liberty is sickening. To posit that one need not pay taxes on the fruits of their labor is ridiculous. I have no problem paying taxes, I just detest our bloated government pilfering and misusing them. I protest this governments opulence and thievery.
Much of what American’s pass off as “labor” is nothing more than a fleecing of the growing public. What many would intend to call income is more “back-door-profit” than trade. Thank you Peter for injecting some much needed logic into this argument. All hail the ditch digger. Peace.
Dane
Feb 25, 2008
Another sick twisted converatation with some of the people who live around me. People who say that they will be here until this nation no longer gives them what they want, then they will leave. I am not ready for this crap…I am still drinking. My neighbors are only concerned about themselves, they just want to profit and leave; such traitorous ilk. I want to kick them in the face, these baby killers. This is going to be the most slaughterous civil war ever fought. Peace.
Dane
Feb 25, 2008
This is the kind of terror you wreak in intelligent people such as myself. You people who care about nothing if it is not reaping for you some gain. The sycophants that feed at this nations wounds…shame on you!
Pardon my harsh words, the cowardly evil and self centered filth that comes out of the people around me is nauseating and terrifying. I will not stand idly by. All of you sick twisted leaches had better get out of my country now because I am getting very pissed off. Today, it is wavering…this Peace.
Dane
Feb 26, 2008
Ooops! seems like I sucked everybody into my seventh circle…supposed to keep that hidden,well, we understand that alchohol can break down some of the retainers. My bad! As much as this is all truth, the problem is that most cannot hear it when spoken on such a morbid platform. I apologize in every form. Seek love and unity, bend not to hate. I am just the delivery. Peace.
Dane
Feb 26, 2008
I miss you so much Aaron. I know I did not always agree with you, regardless, nobody is perfect, but you were such a loving caring good person. You were so very courageous. I know you tried so much to feed the giant and lay sacrifice at the feet of the beast in effort to breed some good will. I die a portion each and every day that you are gone, I could eat my own flesh in sorrow. I am beside myself with grief. I loved you so much. Thank you for your many contributions, I forgive and love all your shortcomings. My apologies, I just miss you so much. They took you from us, I don’t care what the doctors say…bladder cancer is easlily covered. This is a day I care not who views my angst. I weep for a true humanitarian, for a veritable god. Peace.
Dane
Feb 26, 2008
The candle burned out long before the legend ever did…I LOVE YOU AARON. Peace
Dane
Feb 28, 2008
Yeah…I got drunk and fell off my chair. It happens. I am obviously not taking my father’s passing to well, kind of crept up on me. Too few answers.
I railed a bit. While I regret some of the ways I delivered my my message, I do not apologize and I stand by every word. I am getting a bit tired of the traitors and haters in this country. In my everyday life, though, it really is no longer such a frustrating surprise how absurd people can get when they are confronted with the truth. This nation will survive intact, with or without them. Peace.
Average Joe
Feb 29, 2008
‘Dane,Sorry to hear about your Dad(honestly).I lost my Pop a
year ago this past Thanks Giving and I think of him everyday
and miss that most unique friendship a father and son have.
As for what I have written in the past on this blog,I really
only have wanted to give a little food for thought.
W.C. Fields said “never give a sucker an even break” as
Rockefeller told Russo what the elite think of the masses.
“Same guy talking” is that same “spirit” of greed and selfish
ideas that seem to prevail over ideas of equal opportunity
and fairness to all.I too worry what’s going on and see the
threat of a “Police State” about to happen!The mainstream
media have done a good job of “dumbing down” the public.
Rhetoric is alive and well on the airwaves.There are plenty
of well meaning people who ar’nt getting it.They think if
you have nothing to hide “let’um search anything they want
“no harm in that” Well I’m one of those people that believe
there’s a lot of harm in that! Anyway peace to you and let’s
hope that even when people don’t agree there are ways to
work it out other than calling in the SWAT TEAM! GOOD LUCK!
AVERAGE JOE
Dane
Mar 02, 2008
These well meaning optimists you speak of (nothing to hide) are actually a small minority, but yes, there are far too many people who do not realize that once there are no more racial minorities and weak victims left to harass and abuse, the many very bad “cops” will start kicking in the optimist’s door as well, innocent or not, this is just the way absolute power corrupts most humans. Strange to me though because I am not the type. I do, however, have the ability to get in their head, and it is ugly. More important is the obvious lack of dignity in such a policy, and god forbid (Bush)some crazy (Clinton) wanna be authoritarian (Bush) cheats his way (Bush) into office and seeks to globalize (Clinton) the United States (Bush).
Much to consider in the swirling winds surrounding my fathers life and death (swindled patents, areas of research, books) . I think the most significant “aggravant” is; the unfolding parchment just leaves me guessing and grieving year after year…‘nuff said.
My condolences (seriously)…I have had much time to detect and reflect. You have a long way to go, good or bad depends on what there is to know, however, I am certain there is sadness for both. Bless your father’s memory.
The deep underlying crisis gripping America’s society is a certain fear of the self. Most do not realize it because of the nature of the denial. Unfortunately it makes for a very sinister hatred that manifests an incredible array of perversion’s and apathy. The superiority that is sought by the terrified and whimsical souls of these people is like a malignant cankerous sore that seeps and feeds throughout this society like a roiling mass. I have been helping and healing these hateful creatures for over 25 years and all I ever seem to get is kicked in the face. For my many warnings, I now even have proof (I eventually got to where even I was resigned to believing I may be crazy) but so many people still are blaming me for the message; MINDBLOWING. I have literally saved people’s lives, and had them turn on me for…does it matter? Some days I lose my sympathy for them (so the power elite kills them all, they kind of deserve it. If I am among the perished also…oh well). I know it is no kind thing to say, however, I also understand and sympathize with the “evil” power elite. At least those guys are civilized and intelligent enough to take constructive criticism or realize they could learn something if they listen. Yes, their doctrine is rather obtuse and maniacal, but then that will be their demise. I may seek to help some of both…the game roll’s on . Peace.
Dane
Mar 02, 2008
Mmhmm…yeah. Somebody try to tell me again that I don’t know what I am talking about when I say that school officials all around the country have been abusing children and endangering lives with their policies, to include the actions of faculty and staff, for many years.
In Mesa, Arizona in the West Valley, the school district has seen fit to now enforce a “no hugging” policy and even discipline students for engaging in this friendly action for more than two seconds. No matter why they think there is reason for such a morbid policy, it is vehement and UNCONSTITUTIONAL. One of the most glaring points to be understood is that kids are disrespected all throughout their young lives and generally have no choice but to comply. What kind of complacent, robot citizen’s are they trying to create?
Average Joe
Mar 03, 2008
I must agree.I’ve heard many schools insist some students who
are deemed “hyperactive” must take certain drugs or they will
not be admitted.So it’s “drugs not hugs” Also there is
evidence that almost all the “SCHOOL ” Shooting events that
have occurred in the past few years,were committed by individuals who were taking anti-depressants” and medications
of that nature.Is there a connection? I believe any honest
person would at least be suspicious.”Gateway” drug no longer
that evil weed but a pill! “Boots on the ground” is what
will be needed to carry on a “War Economy” and a generation that actually openly displays compassion toward each other not a good role model for fighting the terrorist “Boogie Man”
Who Knows? they might become friends.I just relocated to
the “Vally of the Sun” recently after a lifetime in L.A.
It is extremely conservative here but that doesn’t mean they
believe in conservation.Just read in a local paper the need
to rid the coyotes from the area.They make the golfers
nervous! Average Joe
barney
Dec 25, 2009
Response to Peter K:
As far as paying income tax or not, Aaron said, “I would not advise anyone not to pay it”.
His work is more to expose, though, through other taxation and proposed taxation, what to watch out for. To give his insight. To wake people up. The more that is known about the Federal Reserve, CFR and others, hopefully, through elections, we can get politicians back with the people and for the people.
I wish he was still with us to comment about what is going on in our present times. I doubt Rockefeller ever told him anymore of their plan after they saw the movie he made, but, Aaron would be very outspoken as we see out country today slide into almost total tyranny.
The passage of the junk health care reform act is tyranny. You cannot force a U.S. Citizen to buy a product. I agree with the movement to do recall elections on all 60 senators that voted in favor of it and boot them from office. That can be done sooner, rather than later.
Peter K.
Dec 25, 2009
Senators are chosen by the ways prescribed in the Constitution, specifically Article I, Section 3 as modified by the Seventeenth Amendment. There are no “recall elections” for U.S. Senator. Period.
So don’t waste your time on it.
I don’t think the pro-freedom movement is helped by misinformation, and most of Aaron Russo’s film, as I recall, was misinformation about the tax code and its history. I know there was stuff later in the film about the Federal Reserve, but as someone knowledgeable about the subject matter of the first part of the film, I knew that the source was untrustworthy. You can’t be persuasive, even if you’re correct about something, after you’ve made yourself untrustworthy about something else. That is what Aaron Russo did to himself.
joe
Dec 28, 2009
maybe look into being a sovereign? Common Law in courts anyone? see rob menard
Arr Gyle
Feb 02, 2010
The whole “voluntary compliance” phrase still begs a few questions:
1) If the phrase “voluntary compliance” in the IRS code is creating so much ambiguity for people, why don’t they just change it to “mandatory compliance” and leave no doubt?
2) Are there other laws that use the phrase “voluntary compliance” in the same way that the IRS tax code does? Or is that phrase only used there and in no other law?
3) As a variation of Question 2: We’ve used the traffic light analogy a lot. Do the laws related to stopping at a red light specifically use the phrase “voluntary compliance” as part of the law? Do the laws related to stopping at a red light use the word “mandatory” instead?
bb
Feb 09, 2010
and if they did comply with the United States Constitution as they are supposed to, you would know as well as I do, that the “Patriot Act” would have been tossed out when it was first written, for it infringes on the BIll of Rights. Period, plain and simple.
As for the tax thing goes, a little insight, why not look up Joe Banister and see what he has to say about it, for he was a special agent- (more to the point, “the guy that wears the gun that makes one pay their taxes” with the I.R.S. – That was before he could not find any law.
He has a website, it’s
www.freedomabovefortune.com