Certainly many many LEOs are the last people who we should give a gun to. As I ahve pointed out there is an attitude that seems to go with being a paid (as compared to volunteer) LEO that seems to be everyting many of the people on here that sound like they are LEOs attribute to FDOs.

So much ignorance……. so little time…..

The ONLY accurate post in this entire thread was done by “someone who knows”.

As someone intimately familiar with firearms (NRA certified pistol instructor, 25 years of concealed carry as a civilian), I can say with no uncertainty that the FFDO procedures, and particularly the ADH (auto discharge holster, as it’s been dubbed by FFDOs) are inherently dangerous.

That there haven’t been more ADs with this system, especially given the fact that there are well over 10,000 FFDOs dealing with it on a daily basis, is truly a miracle, and testament to the professionalism that these volunteer pilots conduct themselves. Sure, there have been a few moronic actions, but overall, in spite of the ADH and stupid SOP, FFDOs are, as a group, far more responsible than most LEOs re: weapons handling and safety.

Carrying a gun safely is not brain surgery, nor does it require being an LEO. FFDOs should carry and transport their weapons in the safest, most secure manner possible, which is on the body, all the time. The less the weapon is handled, the better. It has nothing to do with being a cowboy or LEO wannabe (Many couldn’t afford the pay cut or the lousy schedule), it’s all about safety and security of the weapon.

Like it or not, FFDOs ARE Federal LEOs, (it says so right on the creds). Why this rubs many of those in the LEO community the wrong way is baffling to me. Well, knowing many LEO types, and their fragile egos, maybe it isn’t that baffling. The badges are insurance against a “blue on blue” (or in most cases, white on blue) issue in the heat of battle on the aircraft and to lend credence to FFDOs when dealing with LEOs in not so gun friendly states (cough: NY, MA, NJ CA etc.). An FFDO was arrested for “impersonating an LEO” when he was stopped for a traffic violation in one of these states, BECAUSE he didn’t have a badge.

IMHO, every pilot should’ve been issued a weapon on 9/12. No fancy LEO title required. Pilots have COMPLETE control of a potential WMD every minute of every day at work. A pistol is nothing compared to that. The tsA didn’t want the program, since airline pilots are not federal employees, it didn’t feather their empire building beds enough. Congress rammed the program up their keisters. In response, the tsA came up with ridiculous vetting requirements and procedures, designed purely to discourage participation. The folks that wrote the SOP had never flown an airplane nor handled a weapon in their lives, and they completely ignored EVERY suggestion from those that have done both. The tsA made the program far more complicated than it needs to be.

The level of training FFDOs receive is MORE than adequate for the mission at hand. As others have stated, they are not executing warrants, arresting felons or making traffic stops etc. They have one mission and one mission only. To protect the cockpit from being taken over by terrorists, and subsequently used as a weapon of mass destruction. Period. This is by no means an easy task.

Those who have never tried to fight a determined assailant(s), strapped in a seat in a confined space, with your attackers at your back with NO backup other than a future new hire in the F-15 with a sidewinder anywhere close, should really refrain from commenting on this subject. Comparing FFDOs to Barney Fife is an insult, and shows pure ignorance. I know far more “real” LEOs who are closer to BF than any FFDO I’ve met, and I know plenty of both.

The hardened cockpit doors, while better than their cardboard predecessors, are not unbreachable by any means. When the door flies off it’s hinges after the bad guys place a few oz of binary explosive on the bolts and hinges, the weapon needs to be immediately accessible in flight, and this means wearing it.

The bad guys are still out there. In addition to passenger awareness and reinforced cockpit doors, armed pilots are one of the best deterrents to another 9/11 type occurrence.

FFDOs are the good guys.

You can’t put up with crap like that.
Stories like that get me frothing at the mouth, Ray. I don’t know why I’m not in jail. I take a lot of crap from people when it’s stuff that doesn’t matter but when somebody wants to rough you up or threatens your life, that’s a whole different ball game. I’m just lucky the situation has never been there for me. I’ll avoid situations that don’t look good but I’ve never run away from one that started happening around me. Things just always seem to settle down before they get too out of hand.

I did one time tell one of my daughter’s boyfriends that the only thing standing between himself and a hole in the ground was a thumbs down from my daughter. That was a few years ago and I haven’t met up with him since. There was no doubt in my mind that I meant it. I even owned an excavator at the time.
What a crazy world.

Now it is an idiot to assume that this type of behavior will continue?

How is it that a pilot w/ anger management issues and domestic battery charges could pass the psychological eval in order to be licensed for the program in the first place?

The same way that most police officers pass the psychological evaluation. The evaluation is designed not to exclude this sort of person.

Like I said, YOU WIN. No need to justify anything. YOU WIN. I disagree with you, and will never agree with you. YOU WIN. I could give shit parking cruisers. YOU WIN. You turned a discussion about holsters into your personal vendetta against cops. No need to respond to this, because remember, YOU WIN. You are right and everyone else is wrong. Remember, YOU WIN.

We certainly need a level of police which provides the level of professionalism you talk about. But the reality is that we are not getting it. This is a fairly recent, really post 9/11, phenomenon. Year ago I could indeed depend upon the cops. They did their whole job, not just the part that required waving a gun around and looking macho.

I didn’t say that anyone could do this, I said that anyone can in fact be legally assigned to do it. A fact that if you were both a real fed and an actual real professional you should know. It is time that our Law enforcement personnel started really actually doing their jobs. Certainly if they want to claim that they are special they should act like it. Andy was special and deserving a a great deal of respect. Our local cops back home were also like this and deserved the respect. Barney Fife did not deserve the same respect, and didn’t get it. Neither should the cops who act the way the majority do today.

The parking thing is in fact a good sign as to where the problem is. It used to be that cops were called into the office for a “discussion” for parking their cruisers anywhere the way they park them on our incident sites. Certainly parking nose out used to be an absolute requirement. Maybe you can comment on why people who are being paid by us the tax payer can’t understand this, but the unpaid volunteers can.

I give up! You win. Why even have police at all? According to you, they are all bad. Anyone can do what the feds do. You Win…

As I stated earlier “The paddle holster and lockbox is the perfect solution. Remove the whole holster, gun in tack, from their belt and place it in the lockbox. Problem solved.”

As for everything else, YOU WIN. You are beyond reason. Have a nice life.

Your comments about “true professionals” sure would carry a lot more weight if the Federal and Local LEOs would actually act professional. We don’t see the feds very often, but when they do they operate and behave the same way as the local cops I mentioned above except their parking habits are even worse.

As I pointed out before here. Anyone can testify in court, and if you were the assigned investigator you are the assigned investigator. Now what you would be assigned to investigate would likely be EXTREMELY DIFFERENT. But it is your assignment that makes you the investigator. One of the local problem in one of communities is that all crimes which possibly include a police officer are investigated by a team of civilians and unpaid posse members under the direction of the Sheriff. The local officers are really up in arms about this one. Try having a posse member and a couple of civilians serve a warrant on a cop and you have trouble.

As far as serving process most of that is under the authority of the lawyers and judges especially judges. Other people can be assigned these duties in many cases.