The debate over health care reform has turned violent in the last week as protesters on both sides of the issue clashed in cities across the country, revealing a long-simmering civil unrest.
As Congress failed to pass a health care reform bill before its August recess, members have gone home to their districts to try to shore up support for the legislation. During this time of year, members of Congress typically hold meetings with their constituents in their home districts, but in many places they were greeted instead with crowds heckling, booing and hanging them in effigy.
The protests, while largely spontaneous, were at least partly driven by conservative media figures encouraging people to attend their Congressional representatives’ constituent meetings and make their feelings known. Many of them, however, were drawn by messages sent to them via e-mail and social networking sites.
In the town hall-style meetings which were open to the public, the people who asked questions were planted, their questions pre-approved by staffers, drawing the ire of conservatives and leading to at least one call to “Yell out and challenge the Rep’s statements early.”
(Of course, pre-screened questions is pretty standard for these meetings, on both sides, but the so-called liberals only challenge it when Republicans do it and ignore it when “their side” does it.)
Democratic strategists countered this outpouring of grassroots opposition to their plan by calling out their own Astroturf counter-protesters, and then the protests turned ugly, with fights breaking out in several cities and many people arrested.
As it turns out, it was the so-called liberals, actually union thugs, instigating the fights. In Tampa, SEIU goons attacked senior citizens who came out because they quite rightly feel that the health care reform proposal threatens their ability to obtain health care.
The New York Times has gone so far as to admit the necessity of rationing health care in a government controlled health care scheme. Under this model, your life is considered worth less as you age, and the amount of medical care you will be allowed to receive declines over time. Ultimately, you will die of something which could have been treated, either because the government did not want to pay for it, or because you had to wait for months or even years to get the procedure. This is what happens in Canada, Great Britain, France, and everywhere else that the government has seized control of health care.
Some try to deny this obvious truth despite all evidence. Yet doctors and hospitals right here say that they will have to compromise their quality of care, or go out of business entirely, if the government creates public option health insurance. What doctors and hospitals remain will then be overcrowded, with their costs skyrocketing, and reimbursements from the government plan coming nowhere near covering their costs. This has already happened in Massachusetts, where “universal” coverage was passed in 2006, threatening such venerable institutions as Boston Medical Center.
Were this sort of scheme expanded to the entire country, it would jeopardize health care for everyone. Those who see this clearly justly feel their very lives threatened, and perhaps that is what it takes to rouse Americans from their apathetic stupor and get them to take to the streets in protest. Perhaps the only good news here is that the unrest has made the health care reform bill unlikely to pass.
But make no mistake, the civil unrest brewing here is not exclusively over the health care issue. That is simply the spark which made it visible. A deep division runs through this country along ideological lines, with one group believing they have the right to the labor of the other, and that other group, after having lived with the parasites on their backs for so long, finally beginning to perceive where it must end. The parasites are obviously unhappy about the possibility that their hosts will finally say “Enough!” and cast them off, and they have become violent. Thus labor union members viciously attack senior citizens, and the media parasites pretend not to notice who threw the first punch.
The parasites, masquerading as saviors of the human race and offering “free health care for all,” along with all of the other “free” stuff which has nearly cannibalized the productive workers who are forced to pay for it, are not likely to give up their ideology, since it benefits them by giving them power and control in addition to “free” stuff. The workers, now seeing their very lives placed in jeopardy by the policies of people like Ben Bernanke and Barack Obama, seem indisposed to continue quietly suffering. Unless one side or the other gives up, this state of affairs can only end one way.
Compounding the problem is, of course, the economy. It continues to decline despite the talking heads’ insistence that the Great Recession is over. To be fair, it’s declining more slowly than expected, but that was bought with massive inflation to come. That will hit when the Federal Reserve finally starts unloading all of the junk it bought trying to bail out companies that should have failed and trying to stimulate the economy by throwing money around indiscriminately.
As the economy continues to decline, it will further galvanize the workers, many of whom will then be unemployed. And no one fights like one who fights for his life. I fear at this point that civil war is inevitable. The parasites seem unlikely to give up their ways, even if it would ultimately save themselves. And the workers will not die quietly. I can only hope that the parasites lose such a conflict; otherwise we all may die.
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61 Comments
Lies and propoganda are all you people know.
Lies and propoganda are all you people know.
Taser em bro!
You made the comment that old people are scared? They are scared? Senior citizens? They are on Medicare, a government run program that works very well. I am on medicare and I love it and it is a government run program. I am scared that we will get a health care system that is run by the private insurance companies that are already denying, rationing care to their customers. They have to pay all of those CEO’s salaries and bonuses.
This person is a right wing extremist and he is trying to continue to stir the pot. Or he is disturbed and he is certainly ignorant. And he is obviously ant Obama because he speaks out against him. President Obama is the
Republicans have no intellectual plan of action on anything., They just ramble on and on without making any real point on any issue so there opponent has less time to state an intellectual solution. All they know how do is talk around the subject at hand, smile, laugh, and hope everyone will just like there fun nature and will agree with them. They say their hard workers. Huh, I’ve seen them at work. They are lazy, they have others doing there work while they stand around talk and giving orders. Republicans can’t make an honest, morel living if they had to. They have to lie, cheat, and mislead people to make there big bucks for there prestige car and fancy house so they can look down on the hard working people that’s really building this country with there bare hands and broken down backs. Republicans sicken me. Their to damn stupid to even realize there there greed and corruption philosophy is ruining this country. Just like the rally that interrupted the Health Care Town Hall Meetings. They stick together strong and organize outrageous uprisings like the town hall meetings, with no real agenda other than to disrupt the debate with nonfactual comments and rude interruptions. The republican party is a bunch of cult leaders, gangsters and crooks that will do anything to get it back to the way it was., With greed and corruption. They want the biggest population to be poor, weak and unhealthy so they can take advantage of them and steal there money. If they don’t get there way they will start trying violent acts of desperation. You watch and see.
We the real people have had enough of buying the Republicans over inflated priced products and service crap to pay for your luxurious living while we get the scraps. It’s time for a change. The monetary system isn’t working anymore. It’s time for a Resource Based Economy so everyone will be equal. As longs as we use money there will be corruption,. Profit will be the only thing that will drive us. Not humanity.
It’s not totally about health care at all – that is the respectable cover for the real issue which is that not only did conservatives lose the election and have to give up power but that they lost it to a black man (gasp!)
Just yesterday I was at a boat ramp with my husband and an obviously drunk right wing guy was waving around a bag with a gun in it and ranting that white men soon won’t be able to do that – he demanded to know who we voted for- was it Obama he yelled – my husband said he did vote for Obama and he yelled “you’re a F***KING idiot” I said ‘Americans have the right to vote for the candidate of their choice” he then turned on me and screamed “Shut your F***KING mouth or I’ll smash your face in” – I’m a 61 year old woman (white) – what a coward!
Get the facts before you try to create an uproar… and have some common sense for God’s sake! Does it really make sense for an elected official to design such a bill?! This is the same type of B.S. the ultra-liberals tried to pass along about all of Bush’s plans and they were so false!
Go here:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/
Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure! False!
Section 113 of the bill requires the Health Choices commissioner to conduct a study to make sure health reform does not unintentionally create incentives for businesses to self-insure or create adverse selection in the risk pools of insured plans. There is no mandated audit.
age 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!”
False!
Section 122 outlines broad categories of benefits that must be included in an essential benefits package. It prohibits cost-sharing for preventive care and limits annual out-of-pocket spending to $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a family, indexed for inflation. It says nothing about rationing or limiting treatment.
Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.” Pants on Fire!
Section 142 outlines the duties of the Health Choices commissioner, who is charged with regulating insurers. The commissioner should seek insurers to offer different types of insurance, including basic, enhanced and premium. Individuals will be able to choose among competing insurers who are regulated via the exchange.
Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services.”
Pants on Fire!
Section 152 includes a generic nondiscrimination clause, which says insurers may not discriminate with regard to “personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.” It says nothing about “non-US citizens” or immigrants, legal or otherwise.
And AARP has already done a thorough check of the initial 1,000 page bill and found no mention of Euthanasia or cheapened care! This is made up! Manufactured!
Isn’t that the American Way? If you disagree with someone, shout them down or make it so their opinions can’t be heard!
It would be interesting to find out who the fear mongers are behind these “town-hall” meeting disruptions.
It’s always amazing how incredibly stupid people get when they get scared…whether it’s legitimate or not.
I have no idea who Michael Hampton is, I have never met him nor read anything written by him before. He is an idiot, probably a creationist, an anti-abortionist, likely thinks Russ Limbaugh presence on this planet is the second coming of Christ, thinks Dick Cheney is the lord gawd ‘amighty and the savior of all mankind.
Based on this blog, Hampton couldn’t discuss the health care problem in a civil, logical manner if his life depended on it. Waste of time to even read it!
The parasites you speak of, are they not the CEOs, Investment Firms, HMOs, and other massive bloated ticks who feed off the sweat and blood and tears of the working man? Are they not the Republicans who so vehemently hate anything that sounds like progress towards a better more secular tomorrow?
The way the Republican party acts reminds me of the way the NSDAP acted in Germany in the late 20s and early 30s. Replacing Beerhaus meetings with Tea-Parties and interruptions during Town Hall Meetings.
The real question is this: Do you know what of what I am speaking without googling NSDAP or using wikipedia? If not…
theres a diffrence between freedom of speech and threatning people with thier lives.. once you threatned them you have lost your freedom of speech.
Is Dr. Brian Hill a secret racist? Is this why he and the HMOs are teaming up on him? Would he be doing this if Congressman Scott were white? Why the Un-American intimidation towards a blue dog Dem? Is it because he is Black? Why is this white Dr. attacking a Affrican-American congressman? We need to know now.
@ 8: I know about Godwin’s Law and you went straight for it which puts you in rote, knee-jerk robotland.
I also recall the act of screeching masses burning tires, their defiling and defacing effigies being called necessary and valid “activism” in robotland.
Obama promised free and universal health care for all. I want mine, and I want it now, and always free. No excuses no summer breaks between me and my free health care.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The American population, on average, as a whole, reads, writes and comprehends at an 8th Grade Level. The Republicans know that they are dealing with a bunch of 14 year old’s. That is how they were able to destroy this Country in only 8 years and steer the health care debate towards “death panels”. I have worked for “Major Businesses” wherein the American public is looked upon as “clueless buffoons”, incapable of Analytical thought. The Health Care Debate is a “no-brainer”. If you take the “FOR-PROFIT” insurance companies out of the equation and replace them with a Government-run NON-PROFIT system YOUR HEALTH CARE COSTS WOULD DROP DRASTICALLY. The nation’s HMOs earned $6.7 billion in the first nine months of 2003, a 52 percent increase over the $4.4 billion reported in 2002, according to Weiss Ratings, Inc. HMO profits in California rose 46 percent in 2008, with nonprofit Blue Shield leading the pack, almost doubling its profit margin from the prior year. The money doesn’t go towards your “health care”, it doesn’t go to your “doctor”, it doesn’t go for equipment. It goes directly into the pockets of the very people who are paying for the disruptions at these so-called “Town Hall” meetings. America get a clue and quit being buffoons or you will die because you can’t afford “Health Care”, while Cuba, with its excess of Doctors and free medical care laughs their butts off!
Nothing provided by the government is ever free. Someone has to pay for it.
My health care option:
1. bought a Cannondale road bike (made in the U.S.A.)
2. carb-loading for breakfast and dinner with fruit for lunch
3. 20-25 miles a day, with at least 1 to 2 lbs weight drop per week (Lance Armstrong’s diet).
4. Never trust the government to be my savior.
Time to reflect on your own future people… instead of whining about what we expect our government to do for us.
I am 34 years old and although I can afford to buy private insurance I am considered too high risk. I have always bee healthy, but because of a freak twist of faith I am uninsurable. I am forced to work a job I am overqualified for because they offer health insurance. I could do better if I could be an independent contractor, but I am stuck. If anyone has a suggestion for what I can do for the next 30 plus years that would be useful information. I guess I can always wait the 9 years it will take for my previous condition to be considered latent. My story is far from uncommon. Think of all the unemployed people about to run out of Cobra right now. If they have pre-existing conditions they are out of luck. No coverage, substandard care, bankrupcy, etc. This is only going to get worse if we don’t act. I am not saying we don’t need to have a discussion, and come up with a good plan that won’t throw the nation into bankruptcy, but we need to be civil and not believe a lot of missinformation out there. Keep it cool, talk about it. This needs to happen!
I do not believe Obama when he says if you like your current plan, it won’t change. The very nature of a government option will inevitably make it the only option, though it may not be explicitly stated in the bill. The individual will soon have NO choice and (unlike the Canadians and Europeans who currently leave their government plan and come to America for better treatment) no recourse when the government gives poor or no treatment when their life depends on it. People need to consider the consequences of this government takeover.
Obama has lied about transparency and bi-partisanship and redistribution of wealth and denials that he wants single payer healthcare. He has been slamming this health care notion through and refuses to be specific on its details. Americans are right to demand their representatives better understand it and better communicate it.
I agree with Mr.J, nothing provided by the Government is free. You and I pay for it with our tax dollars. Our tax dollars also pay for the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan. Our tax dollars also pay for the “Billions & Billions” of dollars in aid to Israel each year but I don’t see people jumping up and down screaming about “THAT MONEY”. Let’s be real, Government is there to “Redistribute the Wealth” and provide needed services for the “people”. If it were not so we wouldn’t have “Social Security”, a “Standing Army”, A “Postal Service”, A “National Weather Bureau”, A “Center for Disease Control”, etc., These social programs (socialism anyone?) don’t pay for themselves, we do! For the benefit of ALL not just for a few! Most Americans are just to stupid to make the connection.
Awesome article, very well put. I just posted a comment very similar to your article about the parasites and the productive on another website. I think they’ll censor it and never post it though.
And to Hannah, um, Medicare is broke, bankrupt, caput. The Government numbers that you see INCLUDE future receipts but NOT future outlays. It is and has been broke for a long, long, LONG time. So the old people might like it but it cannot and will not last.
And Marcus, I am married to a Cuban and Cuban hospitals have to scrounge dental floss off of people visiting so that they have something to use for stitches. The only thing they’re laughing at is YOU and the other gullible Americans who buy into the Communist propoganda machine that has you convinced that they have better medical care. And those big companies that you worked for that think that the public is a bunch of bafoons? You must have been a Government contractor because that is NOT how most big corporations treat their customers.
Anyway, this article is right on. The productive are sick and tired of the parasites going to the Government and accusing middle and upper-middle class people of being “rich” and crying about how “it’s not fair”. The Government, full-well knowing that these parasites can easily be turned into future voting blocs, are all too willing to give away the farm to stay in power. There is a lot more simmering under the surface, A LOT, including illegal immigration, cap and trade, the bailouts, you name it, it’s there.
To which I ask you all: If non-profit, Government run health care is “all that” then WHY WON’T YOUR OWN CONGRESS PARTICIPATE?
And why does the Prime Minister of Canada send his wife to the US to have surgery?
I am amazed by the ridiculous behavior and misinformation circulating about the new health care plans in the US.
STOP using Canada to support the right wing agenda. While it is not perfect, our system is preferred by most Canadians to the American one. When we need urgent health care we get it- no questions asked. There are sometimes waits for for non-urgent treatments but we are happy and secure knowing we have universal care.
Your right wing agenda that exploits a very few examples of dissatisfied Canadians is not truthful or broadly representative. The anti-universal health care argument in the US is based on greed and self-interest – typical values of the right wing.
#16 Phil – I’m sorry you feel that way but you’re just plain wrong. Things like Medicare and Medicaid have not taken over other private insurance options just as Social Security has not overridden other retirement funds and options. A better example would be the fact that United States Postal Service has not overtaken other shipping and mailing services such as UPS, FedEx, or DHL.
As far as Canadians and Europeans coming here for treatment… yes, it happens. But Americans often travel to Europe for the same reason. My friend recently traveled to Belgium to have her nose done for cheaper. No system is completely better or worse. I’m afraid your fears are overtaking your better judgement.
Oh, and as far as the bi-partianship and trasparency… you should try looking up some government websites that have gone through a complete revamp and all the youtube videos the White House continually publishes. Furthermore, President Obama recently invited 3 Republicans and 3 Democrats to the White House before he left for Mexico to try to hash out a health care compromise. I can understand your’re not a fan or supporter, but your perspective is slightly skewed.
Get the facts before you try to create an uproar… and have some common sense for God’s sake! Does it really make sense for an elected official to design such a bill?! This is the same type of B.S. the ultra-liberals tried to pass along about all of Bush’s plans and about him being a Facist and they were so false!
Go here:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/
Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!”
False!
Section 122 outlines broad categories of benefits that must be included in an essential benefits package. It prohibits cost-sharing for preventive care and limits annual out-of-pocket spending to $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a family, indexed for inflation. It says nothing about rationing or limiting treatment.
Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.” Pants on Fire!
Section 142 outlines the duties of the Health Choices commissioner, who is charged with regulating insurers. The commissioner should seek insurers to offer different types of insurance, including basic, enhanced and premium. Individuals will be able to choose among competing insurers who are regulated via the exchange.
And AARP has already done a thorough check of the initial 1,000 page bill and found no mention of Euthanasia or cheapened care! This is made up! Manufactured!
Marcus,
Spoken like a true Socialist, the Government is there to redistribute the wealth? NO THEY’RE NOT. The Government is there to make sure that the FREE MARKET EXISTS unfettered and that ALL people have the opportunity to provide for themselves.
The Government is there to ensure that the Constitution is upheld.
The Government is there to protect your land rights. The primary difference between the US and a Communist country is that WE have the right to own our own land. The Government has an obligation to protect that right.
Beyond those things, the Federal Government’s role in society SHOULD be minimal. In fact they don’t even have the right to collect income taxes.
What we have now is Fascism or Corporatism. Yes, there are some big corporations that have taken over the Government, ie Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, mostly banks and Wall Street. But the Government has REWARDED them by STEALING from the rest of us!
You should be outraged that they want to steal more while they and their ilk refuse to participate in this garbage system that they want to force people into.
Thank God I live in Canada. Health Care may not be perfect. However, I know that I won’t go bankrupt if I do need to see a doctor or visit the hospital.
It’s interesting watching angry white people complain about the government health insurance at the town hall meetings.
I will remind Americans that sick people make for a sick society; healthy people make for a healthy society. If you don’t want to help your poor black, white, and latino Americans, you will end up with a sicker society.
#22 Christine – I have to say it, but Marcus is right. A purely free market system hasn’t existed since 1929. It’s too unstable. And the examples he provides are perfect. It’s not Socialism, and perhaps “redistribute the wealth” was a poor choice or words. But he makes a compelling argument. And let’s not forget that a lack of oversight is what caused this mess in the first place. Without oversight and some government control, the free market would run rampant much like it did during the 1800s with violent swings between prosperity and complete desolation. I like the things the government provides: Military, post, police, fire, etc. This is the next logical step. It doesn’t cut out the private sector, but it gives it some oversight and competition. Private health care has run rampant for too long and we’ve paid dearly because of it (and they’ve gotten rich because of it). Also, let’s not forget it was President Bush that applauded his Medicare Part D plan and his attempts to save SOCIAL security in 2004 (just in case you hate Obama because you’re a Republican).
Cynthia,
Recent polls show that Canadians aren’t satisfied with their health care.
The Canadian Supreme Court recently ruled that the Government HAS to let people opt out of the plan. Previously you didn’t have that choice. The person who was able to get the case heard by the Supreme Court needed hip replacement surgery, your Government said no, then when he inquired about paying for it out of pocket and getting it done on his own, the said he couldn’t opt out, hence the Supreme Court case.
According to Doctors in Canada, private clinics are now popping up all over Canada as a result of the ruling.
You can read an analysis of the ruling at the link below. And if you don’t like that organization (they are essentially interviewing the Canadians involved) then look it up anywhere else and see if you find any differing analysis, and good luck.
http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/hl892.cfm
Oh, and did you know that the Doctors in Quebec, where Natasha Richardson was fatally injured, actually blame her death on your inefficient, rationed, and antiquated system that doesn’t have the capacity to treat what should have been a simple head injury?
And did you know that your Prime Minister sent his wife to the US for surgery? Why would he do that? Because the US is the safety valve for your elite and Oligarchs who don’t feel like they should be inconvenienced by waiting in your long lines to get services.
There is nothing right wing about any of those facts. They are just FACTS and are a reflection on your lousy, inefficient, beauracratic monument to waste of a health-care system compared to ours.
RE Christine; You may be married to a Cuban but both my sisters, one a Teacher in an all white school district, the other a Physicians Assistant (that’s who they use when they don’t want to pay doctors) have both been to Cuba and are amazed at the “Health Care” of the Cuban people considering the US embargo. Further let us compare the United States and Cuba Medically. Cuba’s infant mortality rate at 6.0 per 1,000, is now lower than the U.S. infant mortality rate of 7.2 per 1,000. It must be all that “Dental Floss”, further Cuba spends more public money as a percentage of GDP on “Education” than the United States. I won’t get into the US of A’s racist policy towards Cuba (I’m black and 78% of all Cubans LOOK-LIKE-ME) I’ll just state that if you knew anything about the history of the U.S. business practices i.e. “Robber Barons”, “Monopolies”, “Let the Buyer Beware”, “A Pig in a Poke”, “Cocaine in Coca-Cola” ad infinitum, you would handle this discourse a little more intelligently and realize that for-profit business is predatory by nature.
Jacob,
What caused this mess is that too many people from Wall Street have made their way to Government, ie Bernanke, Geitner, Bob Rubin, Paulson, not to mention TONS of regulators. This country is a full-fledged Oligarchy, complete with regulators changing the rules and looking the other way all the while getting insanely rich and that INCLUDES your Government that you seem to like so much. It doesn’t matter which party they’re in. They are ALL part of it.
Furthermore, nearly everyone, including the liberal PBS would agree that there were a few BIG events that caused this mess, one was when Citigroup was allowed to break the law and merge with SSB and Traveler’s – that was when Clinton was President. The other was when Glass-Steagall was repealed in 1999, which was largely accomplished through a combination of Citigroup and Bob Rubin, Clinton’s Treasurey Secretary.
I suggest that you read the IMF opinion in Atlantic Montly from a few months back and see what they have to say about the whole situation.
If the left needs any further explanation, they need look no further than Matt Tiabbi’s article in Rolling Stone Magazine that caused a huge uproar in certain circles a couple of months ago.
Medicare and medicaid do NOT work. If they did, then they wouldn’t be broke.
Private medical insurance may not be perfect, but the market is an absolute mess because of Medicare and Medicaid. Anytime that you take money from one group of people and use it to buy insurance for another group of people, that creates a FALSE input into the natural forces of supply and demand. As an example, my parent’s are now on Medicare. Medicare pays for them to have a monthly gym membership and also for a bunch of over the counter stuff that they might or might not need. That is NOT a system where true supply and demand is determining price, that is a system where price is based on too many ARTIFICIAL inputs via the Government taking from one group and giving to another.
Furthermore, as one Doctor recently pointed out, insurance covers TOO much. Back in the days before Medicare, everyone paid for their own Doctor visits and the only insurance coverage was for catastrophic care or major hospitilization. And guess, what, we had Doctors that could afford to make house calls. And don’t claim that they only did it for the rich, they did it for EVERYONE who could afford to pay.
And another thing, what this Government plan might do depending on its final form, is force YOUNG, healthly people who DON’T WANT TO PAY FOR INSURANCE to now PAY for insurance. That is absolutely flat-out WRONG and is a violation of freedoms.
And talk about violent swings between desolation and propsperity, what do you think every boom and bust cycle since the depression has done?
Lastly, the Soviet Union collapsed under the weight of too much centralized planning which is what this country is moving toward. It cannot be sustained.
And to the person who compared someone coming to the US to get a necessary surgery to avoid waiting to someone going to Europe to get plastic surgery because it’s cheaper – GET REAL, would you? Elective plastic surgery isn’t part of insurance coverage now and won’t be in the future. At least with plastic surgery you get a true supply-demand, market-determined price and if you don’t like it then, yes, by all means SHOP AROUND for a better price.
Marcus,
Statistically Cuba can’t be compared to the US.
First of all, the sample sizes aren’t even comparable which alone renders it invalid.
Second of all, in the US we don’t quarantine AIDS patients and we don’t execute drug dealers. In the US, you’re free to destroy your body and your life as you see fit. Part of that freedom is that people with communicable diseases like AIDS are free to roam around in society. You wouldn’t want it any other way, now would you?
Thirdly, the difference life expectancy between tiny Cuba and all of these other small European countries with socialized medicine is so inconsequential, merely a few months, that it’s not a statistically strong data point.
Fourth, my husband isn’t black, and his family lost everything to Castro and his band of thugs. EVERYTHING, except the shirt off their backs and a few photos that they were allowed to take with them when they went to the US. You would be hard-pressed to find many people in this country that were as poor as they were when he first came here.
His family and most others in Cuba at that time resorted to the barter system, where one would grow a few plantains and would trade another family for sugar, etc.
Did you know that it’s possible to feed a family of 4 on nothing but plantains and sugar water???? And that includes 2 infants and/or toddlers? I would assume that living in this “for profit” predatory society that you might know how it feels to starve, but nah, you probably don’t.
Did you know what it was like to be rounded up and thrown into one of Castro’s prisons and sentenced to death for merely speaking your mind? Bet your sisters don’t know about that either and let me take a WILD guess and say that they don’t teach that in those fine Cuban schools, where only the best and brightest graduate from high school because the rest are taken out in 6th grade and put to work for “the state”.
And did you know that Fidel has luxury hotels where he lets the tourists go but the locals aren’t allowed? And all so he can collect those US dollars so that he and his band of thieves can live the high life while everyone else deals with rolling blackouts and cooking up whatever rats they can catch for dinner.
Finally, did you know that the “racist” USA let EVERYONE AND ANYONE who wanted to get out of Cuba leave Cuba via the Freedom Flights?
And do you know who stopped the Freedom Flights? None other than your hero, Fidel, because the country was suffering from brain drain in such a big way that HE ended the whole thing. Anyone who wanted to get out had yet ANOTHER free opportunity to leave during the Mariel boat lift.
So enough with your “racists” accusations of the US toward Cuba. You’ve been listening to Louis Farakhan too much. Either that or you’ve been getting your education from Fidel’s schools.
Christine – I’m sure my 89 year old grand mother would disagree with you about Medicare. It has been her saving grace. When you’re 89, come talk to me.
As far as everything else, you are obviously well informed. Perhaps too well informed. Many of your “examples” stem from a clear conservative bias. And it seems you long for a day when everybody had one family doctor. Guess what? It doesn’t work that way anymore. And, being a young person (26), and all my young friends in their 20s. We cannot afford health insurance and the kind we do get from our work doesn’t cover nearly enough (it could cost us a months worth of tips and wages for one broken arm or leg). I look forward to a government option. If you’re happy with your insurance, good. Nothing will change. But I need something better before I’m in my 40s.
Lastly, what suggestions can you make to change the current plan? What other options are there? I’m serious, what do you think? Maybe we can find some common ground on something.
Hey Skinny Dipper,
Trust me, we are also glad that you live in Canada.
And who said this was about race? We had a town Hall in South Florida and guess who showed up? “A very diverse crowd of 300 people” according to one local paper. They went on to describe them as white, black, Cuban, Russian, Canadian, Indian, young, old, middle aged, you name it they were there. And guess what else? They were ALL opposed to this nonsense. Your attempt at identity politics won’t work in this case.
Lastly, we are ALREADY helping our poor more than any other country in the world. Hospitals have to treat EVERYONE who walks through their doors regardless of ability or inability to pay. Illegals get welcomed with open arms and have full access to welfare, WIC, mecicaid, you name it, they get it.
Can’t afford housing? Just apply for Section 8 and pay maybe $100 per month in rent.
Your understanding and characterization of the situation is unfortunate. The US is a country where fully 47% of the people don’t pay taxes and 1 out of every 9 people is on food stamps. Where I live over 50% if the kids in public school are on free and reduced lunch. And guess what, these people aren’t that poor. Most have figured out how to jack the system or they’ve bought into the Democrat’s promise to take care of them.
The biggest divide in this country isn’t along racial lines it’s along socioeconomic lines. The problem is that the professional poor have become lazy and keep demanding more and more and more. The productive classes are just sick of it.
Jacob,
Yes, I figured you were young.
As the saying goes “if in you’re in your 20’s and you’re not a liberal then you don’t have a heart. If you’re in your 40’s and you ARE a liberal then you don’t have a brain.”
Your grandmother and legions of other people might like medicare but it is BROKE and it CAN’T be fixed without bankrupting future generations.
This is the problem with all managed care: the price is NOT based on true supply and demand. The price is based on what the Government or Insurance Company SAYS they will pay. Therefore what incentive is there for ANYONE to lower price? NONE. If I need to have my teeth cleaned, and I’m paying out of pocket, and one dentist charges $50, and one charges $75, where am I going to go? All other things being equal to the one that charges $50. But right now, we don’t have that, we have ALL charging one price because they are going to charge whatever the Government or someone else is willing to pay. Therefore the price CAN’T come down, it can ONLY go up.
One of the reasons why insurance is so expensive for you is because there are not enough people paying NOW, so those that are left have to pay for everyone else.
My solution is to get the Government out completely and give people TAX CREDITS to buy insurance. Part of the problem now is that there are too few big insurance companies controlling entire markets, which is yet another failure that lies sqaurely on the shoulders of the Government. If everyone was given tax credits to go and buy insurance and they HAD to prove that they used that money to buy insurance then there would be more competition and insurance would change.
But as long as the golden goose is laying eggs, ie the Government, then NOTHING WILL CHANGE. As it is the fraud is out of control, and that’s not just Doctors sitting around charging for things they did or didn’t do. That’s organized groups of criminals with fake companies submitting fake bills and getting reimbursed for it for God’s sake. 10%, literally BILLIONS of dollars are lost every year through fraud. The Government can’t fix THAT and now they want to invite MORE?
Lastly, this bill doesn’t address the other elephant in the room – TORT REFORM. Why isn’t there a cap on damages that a lawyer can collect from medical lawsuits? Because Congress is nothing but lawyers and for many lawyers ambulance chasing is their bread and butter. In fact did you know that all bills in Congress are written by special interests? That’s why your elected officials don’t read the damn things and don’t care. They are simply there to further the agenda of the special interest regardless of the legislation. Only when there is a massive uproar is there any change at all.
RE: Christine;
Like my Colonel said during his tour of duty in the Korean War, we were mowing them down and they just kept coming.. logic made no impression on them … you can’t teach a fence post
Bye
Good. That’s good. I agree that that Tort reform thing should be there. If we could swing that, would you support the plan? The only thing I don’t like about tax credits is what if you don’t have a job? And tax credits don’t address the problem of people with differing incomes. Giving a broad, across the board tax credit means that anybody could use it (even those that have good health insurance through their job, or companies may abuse it if its cheaper.) This bill prevents that.
Right. There not enough people paying into insurance. So we need to make sure everyone has it, either private or through the government. Plus, the government wouldn’t have to turn a profit so they could sink all that cash back into the system.
Some government oversight is needed, especially in health care. It’s not always the answer, but in this case its just too big a problem to let the market sort things out.
No, I am not in favor of any plan where the Government has that much control over our lives, and believe me, it will only be a matter of time before this thing spreads and becomes single payer.
There is virtually NOTHING that the Government does better than the private sector, nothing. Even the Space Program, although funded by the Government, was built by private contractors.
The Post Office? A money-losing venture even though the price keeps going up and up and up.
Medicare? Broke, bankrupt, has been, always will be.
Social Security? Nothing more than a legalized ponzi scheme, where again, the cost was neglible at one time and now it’s too expensive.
Education? In Florida, if you take the amount of money spent by the local school board in our county, their budget comes to over $20K per student, but the schools only get $6k per student. Where does the other $14K plus go? The beauracrats. The very high-end private schools here that put kids into the Ivy Leagues on a regular base charge $12K per student. That’s 12K for the best private school but their budget is $20K per student for public and they can’t even come close to the private school education-wise. Go figure.
And therein lies the other HUGE problem that I have with this – in the end there will be more money spent on employing more Federal Government workers with their out of line salaries, pensions, and of-course THEIR separate and MUCH better plan, buildings to house them, along with all kinds of infrastructure. That’s what every Government program does – takes from the productive, divvies out to their own, then leaves the scraps for the people they were originally supposed to help.
In fact a Republican Senator from Nebraska had the perfect solution – open up the Federal employees plan to everyone in the country who wants to join. That way we don’t have to create another big, sprawling beauracracy where more money gets spent on beauracracy than actual care. And since we’re paying for them and all of their benefits why shouldn’t we be able to participate?
As I stated before, health care in this country was fine before the Government started meddling and shoved Medicare and Medicaid down our throats. That’s when everything changed literally overnight. Ask anyone who can remember and they will tell you the same thing.
I don’t know why people think the Government is the good guy in all of this. They are responsible for all of our problems, yes ALL, including the economic situation and the mess in the medical industry.
And once they start a program, it NEVER goes away or gets scaled back, NEVER. It just spreads like a cancer and keeps growing and growing. It’s good for them because they like to control everyone and make them happy while they get on with their dirty work and if you ever bother to find out what they’re up to you’ll see it ain’t pretty.
The Government not sinking a profit??? No, they only employ tons of people to sit around do next to nothing all the day, all the while collecing a very good salary, 7 or 8 weeks of paid vacation, and excellent pension and medical care themselves. When there’s a surplus of money what to they do? They shore up their pension plans give themselves raises, that’s what. They don’t call it the gravy train for nothing.
Lastly, can we afford the trillion + price tag associated with this? I don’t think so.
The best thing to do would be what many others have suggested – sell insurance only for catastrophic care and hospitilazation. The rest gets paid for out of pocket and is tax deductible.
Reform the entire system of rules and regulations that take away incentives for people to work, ie, you can’t make more than “X” amount of money and get medicaid. All that those things do is keep people down.
I could go on and on and on, but if you want to read some things that REALLY make sense, go to Ron Paul’s website. No, he’s not really a conservative Republican, he’s a Libertarian/Independent but had to switch to Republican in order to be relevant in Congress.
Marcus,
Why don’t you just put your money where your mouth is and move to Cuba if you like it so much? I’m sure they’d let you in, wouldn’t they, or are they one of those countries like Mexico – they like to let people pour out but their borders are locked down tight against anyone that wants to come in?
I was watching Schindler’s List and the people who are yelling and screaming without giving a chance for others to speak resemble the Germans screaming at the “Jews”. Don’t they realize that the lobbyists and the Insurance Industry is behind all the turmoil?
Seniors are scared? It was Betsy McCaughey, and the “death to seniors” lie that is not in the bill. Seniors are scared because of the GOP. Did you send you friends in? I am old and simply love my Medicare. In the 70’s your GOP Ronald Reagan said if Medicare passed the country would be socialist. Go to: www.factcheck.org for any truth please.
But then any one now in the GOP now is really stupid. Glad Sarah is with you!
As a Canadian who has enjoyed the benefits of our health care system I have to laugh at the myths being posted.
Foe example people having to wait months or years for treatment of an ailment. Or not being able to pick your own family doctor. Or that there is no cost to us for health care.
Yes surgery is done on a priority basis, if you have a life threatening problem you are taken care off asap. I have had the same family doctor for over 25 tears and that is my choice. Our wages are deducted to help fund health care as is other portions of the taxes we pay.
Having been born with a bicuspid aortic valve I had the surgery to replace it 3 years ago and the hospital and staff were brilliant.
Our Hospital for Sick Kids in Toronto is one of the finest in the world as are our cardiac and cancer hospitals.
Obama’s plan for coverage for all US citizens is a wonderful idea, its just a shame that the AMA cannot see fit for its members to live on a salary of $250-350k per year as opposed to the millions they want to earn.
America has always sought to be #1 in the world when it comes to most things, its such a shame that they lag behind so many other countries when it comes to health care for its people.
Fatima,
You couldn’t be more disillusioned.
Unlike the left-wing liberals, who wrote the book on rent-a-mob political tactics, what with their SEIU gangsgters and their illegal-alien criminals that they send marching into the streets, as the writer of this article pointed out, the problem here is that the host is tired of the parasites, be they illegal aliens, professional poor, even our own Government employees who live high on the hog at our expense.
Furthermore, the way that the Nazi’s handled health care is essentially what Obama and the left are proposing. It’s right there in black and white in Dr Ezekial Emmanual’s book, you know, Rahm’s brother? Read it one of these days and you will be quite surprised at how the Dr who happens to the brother of our extremely liberal left-wing Chief of Staff describes how the plan will work.
And to all of the Canadians who have suddenly come crawling out of the woodwork to talk about how great your system is – your system only works because the US is here to handle all of those who are denied medical care by your Government. Were it not for that, you all would be moaning and groaning and screaming and hollering. Well, maybe not. After all you are pretty Socialist up there…
This entire argument ultimately is about freedom and what happens when too much power is centralized in the hands of any Government. It is also about the rapidly shrinking pool of taxpayers in this country and how the parasitic class is bleeding them dry. The actual taxpayers are mad because we know that the ultimate goal is to enact the New World Order and this is their MO, take freedom away and control every aspect of everyone’s lives.
Anyway, hope you all enjoy the country when the taxpayers and revenue-generators leave, which is inevitable anytime that any country heads down the Socialist/Communist path. Businesses have been high-tailing it out of here for years so I would expect that most mid-size businesses will either cease to operate or make sure that their revenue and payroll is at the threshold where they will be exempt from paying penalties for not providing insurance. Then the Wal-Marts and McDonald’s of the world be left to employ you all, which will make the Masters of the Universe who want all wealth and power concentrated in the hands of the few very, very, VERY happy.
Don’t say you weren’t warned…
Brian,
If the US “lagged” behind health care then why does your prime minister send his wife here to get surgery?
And why did your great system kill Natasha Richardson?
Anyway, it is quite obvious from this board that the rent-a-mob’s and professional poor who probably don’t even have a high school education are bombarding this board, trying to make it appear that everybody in Canada loves being subservient to their Government and trying to make it appear that most in the US are willing to walk the plank behind the Messiah.
Most of you are really a disgrace.
Right on Christine!!! Your posts are a breath of fresh air. It seems that we have many people on this board that feel they are entitled to other peoples money. Very sad.
Christine and a few others are dead on. To the Canadians. It’s nice that your “system” has enough money. You can thank the Americans for that. If we weren’t here you would be under the complete control of France or by now Muslims like France is about to be. No one will mess with North America because of the U.S.A. being smack in the middle. Someone would have marched right across you otherwise. What Industries do you have in Canada that did not derive from USA’s industries? It’s nice of us to let you build and drive our cars isn’t it. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve met quite a few Canadians and they were nice people. A few good rock bands out of there too. They have to get their dental work here I suppose before they can do photo opps while smiling. I guess your plan does not do braces eh. Did you know Neil Peart lives in California? Got a PHD, smart man living in the USA and I suppose Cali was the closest thing to socialism he could find here. Oh, did you know cali is broke?
To everyone saying the GOP or Insurance companies are behind the health care protests. B.S. Conservative people believe in what they do. We do not get drug around by the nose or controlled which is why we don’t want a gov that has the ability to do so. We can think for ourselves. We simply want the gov that was designed for us. It’s been perverted for a long time and that has made things worse. It started in 1913. Watch the protesters. Do they seem organized and scripted? No just a bunch of sensible people that are very upset and have never protested in there lives. Now we have acorn/seiu/union scum beating people up. ACORN=people being paid to do nothing, SEIU=people being paid to do nothing, Union workers=people being paid too much to do something slowly. ACORN and SEIU are paid for with tax money and donations from the few rich liberals that desire socialism in this country. The car companies failed because of too much cost. $40 an hour for life must be nice for doing one talentless job requiring no thought for 30 years. The auto union paid for Obama to get elected and now they’re being paid back with ownership of the car companies. Government is crooked top to bottom and there’s tons of “too big to fail” companies running the government. It will stop one way or another. Either it will collapse under it’s own weight because of people who say “I want my free health care and I want it now” or due to civil unrest leading to an all out free for all of a diverse and perverse melting pot of society. It ain’t gonna be pretty either way so have fun pushing your agenda and opinions while you can. The original design of our government worked very well. How do you think we became the one and only superpower on the planet in such a short time? But go ahead and kill the spirit with socialism,fascism,communism. Just be ready to do lots of walking. I make less than 2K a month and 5-7 years ago I could afford healthcare. Now I can’t. I’m in Florida and it costs the hospitals so much money to treat lazy professional welfare cases and illegal immigrants that they raised the rates beyond my reach. Am I begging for free healthcare? No, I have a brain. Do I “utilize all my free options out there”, NO I have a sense of decency and some pride in myself and my country. Or what’s left of it. It’s beyond repair. There’s been too many freeloaders and greedy people for too long.
To the 20 somethings. Educate yourself while you still have access to all this free information that hasn’t been fully censored YET. Don’t worry we know the public schools have been doing a crappy job for the last couple of decades since the gov got involved and the liberal paid protesters from the 60s and 70s had there way put into place. We understand why your clueless. Quit watching Idol and keeping up with the latest gossip about your favorite music/acting stars and teach yourself. Learn from facts not opinion like blogs and then add everything up in your head. I know it’s not easy but you can do it. Think and ponder slowly with an open mind and you will learn.
Christine
Wow, I love your spin, has a celebrity visitor to the USA never passed away or had an accident.
As for being subservient to our Canadian government, check your facts, opposition parties can bring down a sitting government with a non confidence vote in parliament, can you say the same? Yes you can, every four years.
As I said no health system is perfect, but a family member of a working household in the USA who needs major surgery, or long term treatment for illness can be wiped out financially even with the standard 80% medical coverage available to working households.
Why dont you ask those people how they feel about your system?
Gee Brian, Skipped right over my spin. Once again I’ve liked all the Canadians I’ve met and I’ve met but Canada would be nothing like it is today without America. Check out the trade between the two countries in the last few decades. Meanwhile you cannot possibly have a clue of what’s really going on here unless you were born and raised here. Socialism may seem fine for someone that lives in a socialist country but it’s not fine for those that live in what’s supposed to be a republic. I highly doubt you’ve read all 1000+ pages of the bill and looked up the 1000s of pages of existing US Code that it affects. It does not affect you so shut up. Oh, maybe it does affect you. I get it. You’re looking for that whole North American Union thing so you can be an American too. Ain’t gonna happen. Get over it. Create you’re own republic. Hey you won’t even have to wait 4 years with that non confidence vote right? Unless there’s some parliamentary procedures handed down by the Queen preventing that.
You really whacked the hornet’s nest with this one Michael. Cheer up though, we’re not ALL going to die.
Healthcare?
I’m not sick, so I don’t care. I take care of myself and pay as little tax as possible, therefore I’m not paying for any of this crap so I don’t care. If I get sick and die, I plan to take it like a man. I might do some whining if it’s painful but nobody owes me anything. Leave me alone.
A lot of finger pointing and gnashing of teeth going on here. We’ll see who the parasites and producers are soon enough. Parasites will be the ones needing help and producers will be the ones telling them to piss off.
Everybody seems to be throwing “black”, “white” and “Jew” around a lot too. Just like the good old days. We always look for somebody to blame when it gets tough. You should all look in a mirror people. I’ve been saying that on here for almost two years now.
Where has all the hippie love from the sixties gone? It’s easy to love everybody when times are good.
What a mess.
John. It feels good to let it out but the only people who listen are the people who already agree with you.
I hear you man, you’re right on the money.
Just sit back and let the chips fall where they may.
We are all just slaves to Obumper!!!
Reference POST# 12
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MARCUS | August 10, 2009 5:24 pm
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BS.
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Dearest Marcus,
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Honey child, we do NOT live in a COMMUNIST country. It’s referred to as ‘The land of the FREE and the home of the BRAVE’ for a reason: WE LIKE IT THAT WAY! We take care of ourselves.
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If >YOUYOUYOURYOU< find ~ANY~ mention of so-called 'health care' being subject to government powers?
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You'll tell us all about that, won't you?
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Real soon now, right?
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Because I just can't wait to read of it!
The standard of living in this nation is going down and will continue to do so until it is balanced globally. That is the reality – please get used to it. There are over 6.5 billion human beings on the planet and limited resources. Stop quibbling about nonsense. Rationally assess your individual futures (and those of your descendants, should you choose to have any) and either act to change or shut the f up. I doubt more than one in 10,000 people really understand how much their lives will change in the next couple decades. Good luck to you all…
42 John
Why do you automatically equate working families contributing from their pay cheque to health care coverage with socialism?
You are paying for the benefit to have health coverage.
As for not being born in the USA you are correct, but did live in Stamford Connecticut for 18 years.
As for the great trade imbalance between our 2 countries that a few posters love to bring up. Did you expect the trade imbalance to favour Canada with a population of approximately 33 million compared to the USA at over 300 million. Yes you make a lot of sense making a trade imbalance statement.
I happen to think working families should have a chance at medical coverage without the premiums bankrupting them, or providers refusing to cover what claimants thought they were covered for after signing up. I suppose that is to much to ask for working Americans.
41 Christine.
Christine just a thought what lobby group has you on the pay roll?
Since when did health care become a human right? You’re alive and that’s about all you get in this world unless you work for it.
Success is a choice, if you however chose to suck at the shriveled tete of welfare and demand I now pay your health bills, grow up. I’m proud I can go to the Mayo Clinic every year for a checkup, and that I can afford it. I made a choice in life and perhaps it’s not too late for you… Make a life for yourself, stop looking for mommy government’s handouts, and perhaps you too will realize there is absolutely nothing wrong with the health care system we currently have. It’s the best in the world.
Free choice is a wonderful thing!
People can’t seem to wrap their heads around that one Robert.
I’ve really started to think that most people are just simply unable to understand the concepts of freedom and independence.
What you hear is “I want to be free but so and so won’t let me”, or “I want to live independently but I need help”. They just don’t get it.
It’s all a state of mind and if you don’t have it, you don’t have it.
You’re talking to a brick wall.
Obviously you have a right to health care. If the doctor doesn’t give it to you, put a gun to his head. After all, the doctor doesn’t matter. He isn’t human. He’s just a lowly slave and he has to give you health care, by force if necessary.
Just like Dr. Zhivago, Michael.
Who do these doctors think they are? They think they are better than the rest of us just because they have years of training and skills to save our lives? We must punish these rich bastards!
Say it with me now…everybody….from each according to their ability and to each according to their need. Ahhh, that sounds nice.
(Of course we are screwed without doctors but that’s their fault. It has to be because nothing is our fault.)
Now pro athletes and entertainers……there’s a group that’s worth every penny they get. Love those guys. Bono and Sting are always helping somebody.
“Lies and propoganda are all you people know.”
No, that would be worthless fucking progressives.
“It’s time for a Resource Based Economy so everyone will be equal.”
And that makes you a marxist. Which is my mortal enemy. Prepare for civil war, worthless FUCK.
Since when did Health Care become a human right? You are guaranteed the equal chance to better yourself in this republic or become a total looser. Next come taxes and finally death.
If you want Health Care, go out and earn it.
reforming healthcare does need to happen. unfortunatly, it can only take shape after immigration reform. and as we all can see, no one wants to deal with that ugly baby. many illegals that show up here are sweet., however, many are gang thugs. their continued invasion not only threatens health care revisement but, is going to turn our country into chaos. since the polititions are afraid to upset the hispanic voting block now, in ten years or less we will become the united states of mexico. along with that our healthcare etc, will be so diluted, that 90 some percent of us will be as poor as beans. mccain would have won the general election if had returned to being a hero, and took a stand against this invasion. maybe im being a bit dramatic, as the same thing is happenning in other successful countries, and to make it clear i have love for hispanics, its just, were all being sold down the river. dems and repubs, are responsible equally, even though they do their business differently. healthcare reform right now is like a diversion. without, drastic action against illegles, including everify and much more, all other corrections to our system will be a waste of time.
The remarks were:
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59 rich | September 7, 2009 11:31 pm
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healthcare reform right now is like a diversion. without, drastic action against illegles, including everify and much more, all other corrections to our system will be a waste of time.
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You’ve nailed it.
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But the one thing you didn’t address was just this: Why the illegals?
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What I mean to ask is just this: Why is it that Mexico is such a problem when Canada isn’t?
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We don’t have a flood of illegal Canadian citizens crossing the northern border.
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What is so very wrong with the Mexican economy that it bends like a cheap suit in the merest whisper of an ill economic wind?
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Now, here’s a solution: Get rid of ALL the government subsidies and every entitlement program not associated directly with retirements or medical compensation.
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And to cover for medicare, have the people pay for that themselves, and then appeal to the states or the fed for compensation —IN PERSON— at a local office, providing proof of citizenship at the same time.
thats an easy one anonymous. in mexico, you can have all the children you want. its all free. along with that, they are chatholic, and by faith will not even consider contreception, etc. there not alone as, many other countries do things much the same way. in my oppinion, they need to change their way of thinking, and also stand up to their leaders. mexico is quite rich in resources yet, the wealth is benifitting, only the elite in mexico. their leaders will not let one illeagle guatamalan into their country from the south. thats the reason they all want to come here. corporate america is their best friend. the corporation i work for has way over 50 percent illeagles working for them. they buy a social security card on the black market and there in. why, is it a felony if i give a police officer a false name, when the supreme court recently ruled that illeagles arent even breaking a law using someone elses ssn. thats why i say us natural citizens are being sold down the river. the reasonning, ive heard is were lazy and wont produce. thats the big lie! let me ask you one more thing? dont you think that law on the books about entering countries illeagly was put into law for a reason.? if not, ill bet you do now. government eavesdroppers!!!! a law is a law, inforce them all or enforce none of them. if its a bad law (of course its not ) then change it. and while were changing laws you might consider changing the law that if a woman from another country can somehow make it here to have her child that, that child automatically becomes a U.S. citizen. once that happens she claims the father is whatever, not in pictue, get food stamps, medicaid money, all for free. this is epedemic. what a freakin racket.
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