How not to market your business
I was just about to go to bed, when this person logged in to IRC and started asking… No, that’s not right. Started whining…
Ostensibly, he wanted to enter into some sort of business arrangement with WordPress, to send him sales leads. But we found out he had no product and a serious need for therapy.
A complete log of an hour of wasted time follows.
| [04:13] | * | RahulXingh (~anantatma@ip68-100-168-225.dc.dc.cox.net) has joined #wordpress |
| [04:13] | _infobot | Milords, Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome RahulXingh |
| [04:14] | westi|work | pierro: yes you can use classes instead of functions for filters as far as i know |
| [04:15] | RahulXingh | i approached Matt Mullenweg to notify him of our interest to support wordpress commercially, and a few weeks later i saw that you guys had corporate sponsors |
| [04:15] | RahulXingh | for hosting |
| [04:15] | pierro | thanks westi|work |
| [04:15] | RahulXingh | is this such an exclusive club that I cant host and market wordpress? |
| [04:16] | westi|work | RahulXingh: i don’t think so |
| [04:16] | io_error | RahulXingh: No one is stopping you from hosting WP and marketing your service |
| [04:17] | pierro | GPL 🙂 |
| [04:17] | RahulXingh | my question was to have an partership with wordpress to see if we could work together |
| [04:17] | RahulXingh | and two weeks later 3 hosting companies were exclusively advertised, and i never got a response |
| [04:19] | io_error | RahulXingh: I don’t know why matt didn’t respond, but I can say that I doubt you would have been given much consideration unless you already had a hosting company going |
| [04:19] | westi|work | the hosting page is not necessarilly exlucsive .. i belive it came about because a lot of users were looking for recommendations of hosts that are wp friendly.. the list is not meant to be all consuming but just a flavour of whats available |
| [04:20] | io_error | and that give WP cash for referrals 🙂 |
| [04:20] | RahulXingh | i understand that , and i outlined that as part of my contact email .. |
| [04:20] | io_error | RahulXingh: which is your hosting company? |
| [04:20] | RahulXingh | my focus currently is CMS hosting |
| [04:21] | RahulXingh | www.konotree.com ( still in development , but we have a rack at equinix supporting 25 servers ) |
| [04:22] | VxJasonxV^Clone | how is .net nuke? |
| [04:22] | io_error | error_bot: dns www.konotree.com |
| [04:22] | error_bot | io_error: 66.117.43.206 |
| [04:22] | io_error | error_bot: dns 66.117.43.206 |
| [04:22] | VxJasonxV^Clone | I’ve heard a lot lately. |
| [04:22] | error_bot | io_error: Host not found. |
| [04:23] | * | otaku42 (otaku@otaku42.developer.madwifi) has joined #wordpress |
| [04:23] | RahulXingh | my company is www.anant.us, but konotree.com might be under maintenance right now. |
| [04:23] | io_error | error_bot: dns www.carpathiahost.com |
| [04:23] | * | otaku42 (otaku@otaku42.developer.madwifi) has left #wordpress (‘Leaving’) |
| [04:23] | error_bot | io_error: 66.117.32.35 |
| [04:23] | RahulXingh | i have a few people working on the konotree Rainbow, konotree DotNetNuke products right now |
| [04:23] | RahulXingh | .net nuke sucks |
| [04:24] | RahulXingh | lot of the .net cms products suck compared to the mature php / mysql area |
| [04:24] | io_error | I think we’ve found the reason you were passed over. |
| [04:24] | pierro | ;D |
| [04:24] | RahulXingh | ah i see, so conversation on making a business deals requires a URL? |
| [04:24] | * | shep (shep@12-218-120-209.client.mchsi.com) has joined #wordpress |
| [04:24] | _infobot | shep is a History major at Missouri State University and plans to become a High School Social Studies Teacher. He writes at www.pieceofshep.com and not a German Shepherd |
| [04:24] | RahulXingh | that’s ok, i guess i understand |
| [04:25] | RahulXingh | but matt used to be a client of a reseller of mine |
| [04:25] | RahulXingh | CDX Solutions |
| [04:25] | io_error | RahulXingh: at least, it requires that you run your own services rather than being hosted at some other company |
| [04:25] | RahulXingh | io_error: i own all my infrastructure, but let excellent companies like equinix take care of real estate and power |
| [04:26] | RahulXingh | when companies like google, amazon, and yahoo are int he same building as me, i consider my confidence level to be fairly good |
| [04:26] | io_error | RahulXingh: this is not at all apparent from any of the information you’ve provided. |
| [04:26] | io_error | If it had been, I’m sure your offer would have been considered more seriously. |
| [04:27] | RahulXingh | io_error: bottom line is that as a technical sales person and a architect of enterprise grade CMS systems for many companies, i would like to host and contribute to this product |
| [04:28] | RahulXingh | i dont judge software by its source code, and i work with other CMS systems from the .NET arena |
| [04:28] | RahulXingh | when there is a middlemanship of you arent approved because such and such, you are being hypocritical by the nature of your research and development methodology |
| [04:29] | RahulXingh | if you are open source, you should let the barrier to entry be as open to the businessmen as it is to the developers and users |
| [04:29] | io_error | RahulXingh: there is no barrier to entry here |
| [04:29] | io_error | RahulXingh: Again, no one is stopping you from creating and offering a product/service based on WP |
| [04:30] | * | tanuki_ (~bgeiger@dialup-4.247.137.169.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net) has joined #wordpress |
| [04:30] | RahulXingh | io_error: if you know anything about marketing, it is about the analysis of networks. if i cannot be shown as a vendor from WordPress, i am no one |
| [04:30] | io_error | RahulXingh: all of the three vendors shown on that page already were offering WP in their hosting packages |
| [04:30] | tanuki_ | Is there a way to have a specific entry either not show up in the RSS feeds or have only a certain segment show up? |
| [04:31] | io_error | before they were listed |
| [04:31] | RahulXingh | io_errror: i offered specific questions on how to do this exact same thing before it was offered and i got no response |
| [04:31] | io_error | tanuki: You can change the excerpt to whatever you want, but I don’t know if there’s a way to keep an entry out of the RSS feed completely |
| [04:31] | io_error | RahulXingh: It’s your company, and your product. |
| [04:31] | westi|work | tanuki_: i guess you would need a plugin to filter the query for the feed probably |
| [04:31] | tanuki_ | io_error: I have my feeds set to fulltext |
| [04:32] | io_error | RahulXingh: Start offering WP to your customers. What’s so hard about that? |
| [04:32] | RahulXingh | io_error: no, it is your product and me offering it makes me a franchisee. me coming to you and asking for endorsement was a move of respect, which was shot down |
| [04:32] | io_error | RahulXingh: You have completely misunderstood something somewhere. |
| [04:33] | tanuki_ | I’d love a “Excerpt if excerpt is defined, else fulltext’ RSS option |
| [04:33] | io_error | RahulXingh: In no way does offering WP as a product make you a franchisee of anything. |
| [04:33] | westi|work | anyone is free to offer WP in anyway – including there own fork if they so wish |
| [04:33] | io_error | westi|work: quite true |
| [04:33] | RahulXingh | io_error: the basis of taking a product, offering a service geared around it is making a move as a franchisee. otherwise i could have made my own product |
| [04:34] | io_error | RahulXingh: False. |
| [04:34] | RahulXingh | io_error: if i have no support from the product vendor, i am noone |
| [04:34] | tanuki_ | Basically, I’m going to be writing something that I don’t want people to stumble upon unexpectedly |
| [04:34] | westi|work | RahulXingh: there is no product vendor |
| [04:34] | io_error | RahulXingh: You have as much support from the non-existent product vendor as anyone else. |
| [04:35] | RahulXingh | io_error: i am interested in marketing konotree or anant, i am interested in marketing wordpress, |
| [04:35] | tanuki_ | so I want a “Yes, I want to read it, dammit’ interstitial step |
| [04:35] | io_error | tanuki: Password the post |
| [04:35] | io_error | tanuki: and put the password in the post title |
| [04:35] | tanuki_ | io_error: Ick. |
| [04:35] | io_error | hey, it works |
| [04:35] | tanuki_ | io_error: I want *some* of it to be readable, though |
| [04:35] | tanuki_ | enough to describe the content |
| [04:35] | westi|work | tanuki_: or put the post in a page that is linked from the post |
| [04:35] | westi|work | 🙂 |
| [04:35] | io_error | tanuki_: … |
| [04:36] | io_error | tanuki: or stop sending full-text feeds |
| [04:36] | westi|work | s/linked/only linked/ |
| [04:36] | tanuki_ | io_error: I *like* fulltext feeds. usually. |
| [04:36] | RahulXingh | io_error: WordPress is a product. There is a group of people that produce it. If I as a product SUPPORt company cannot be linked somehow from the product devcelopment company, I am not as effectivre |
| [04:36] | RahulXingh | does that make ssnese? |
| [04:36] | io_error | RahulXingh: Perfect sense |
| [04:37] | io_error | RahulXingh: You don’t need that link in order to get started, nor to succeed. |
| [04:37] | westi|work | RahulXingh: it makes sense… but you cannot expect to be linked before you have a product.. or any user feedback |
| [04:37] | RahulXingh | io_error: that is what i was tryign to establish, an idea of a product service company. i didnt get any response, but two weeks later, a page that endorses 3 companies |
| [04:37] | michel_v | RahulXingh: there’s a lot of responsibility in endorsing a support company |
| [04:37] | westi|work | and as io_error says the existance/non-existance of that link does not guarantee sucess/failure |
| [04:37] | * | ringo999 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| [04:37] | io_error | RahulXingh: I know several hosting companies that wanted to be on that page, and offer WP as a product available with their packages, and yet were not chosen |
| [04:38] | io_error | And they’re still in business somehow |
| [04:38] | io_error | and still offering WP |
| [04:38] | io_error | RahulXingh: Those companies offer WP to their customers because there is demand for it. |
| [04:38] | westi|work | in fact being linked from that page could be a companies downfall if the get all the newbie wp users with no clue that require oooodles of support 😉 |
| [04:38] | io_error | RahulXingh: I doubt you will have that much trouble marketing your service. |
| [04:39] | RahulXingh | io_error: i dont think you quite get my argument. i approached matt in confidence to talk about the idea to see if it was feasible and would be possible … |
| [04:39] | io_error | RahulXingh: and he failed to respond. |
| [04:39] | westi|work | and your server if good will get marketed by its users |
| [04:39] | westi|work | s/server/service/ |
| [04:39] | RahulXingh | not only was their a failure of response, there was an apparent, “oh here we he like these guys, buy from then’ |
| [04:40] | io_error | RahulXingh: well, there was also a lack of product on your part. and nothing to link to! |
| [04:41] | RahulXingh | io_error: the product is hosting an existing product!!!. if i ask someone whether they;d be willign to work with us taking it off, i’d at least expect a reply saying “we have our inner circle’ or “you dont have aproduct page’ |
| [04:41] | io_error | RahulXingh: Don’t ask me to speak to matt’s motives. I cannot. I don’t know them. |
| [04:42] | michel_v | RahulXingh: the question is, did you already have your business going with WP when you contacted Matt? |
| [04:42] | io_error | RahulXingh: All I know is you don’t have a product, and those companies do. |
| [04:42] | RahulXingh | io_error: i have been makign enterprise CMS and mid level CMS for 7 years, and can make better software than wordpress and anything else that;s out there. but i dont want to step on any ones toes. |
| [04:42] | RahulXingh | you guys do a good job and iw ant to support you |
| [04:42] | RahulXingh | but when i am ignored, that really makes me think twice of whether or not i should be supporting open source |
| [04:43] | RahulXingh | in business practicality is everything |
| [04:43] | io_error | RahulXingh: If you want to sit here all morning and complain about photomatt not answering your email, go right ahead. But I have things that need to get done, and so do you. |
| [04:43] | RahulXingh | being able to use what is available is gold |
| [04:43] | RahulXingh | that;s the problem with you guys, BECAUSE you give away your stuff, you dont take any criticism from customers, uses, possible channel partnerts |
| [04:44] | RahulXingh | becaues you have “other stuff to do’ |
| [04:44] | io_error | RahulXingh: I answer all my email. |
| [04:44] | RahulXingh | fine. be that way |
| [04:44] | io_error | If it isn’t killed by SpamAssassin. 🙂 |
| [04:44] | RahulXingh | ignore the people who want to help you |
| [04:44] | io_error | RahulXingh: OK, get your head out of your ass. |
| [04:44] | westi|work | i cannot speak for matts motives… but i would not be supprised that given the current growth in wp (the rate the downloads are going for 1.5 shows that) i would not be supprised if matt is recieving a heck of a lot of emails similar to your RahulXingh and is having to ingore all but the ones that already have a visible product and meet the hosting requirements. |
| [04:44] | RahulXingh | that shouldnt be my problem. |
| [04:45] | michel_v | RahulXingh: we have discussed with you, your problem is with Matt and Matt alone; and with the apparent lack of a product to endorse on your part |
| [04:45] | westi|work | it is a call someone has to take when the volume of email the recieve starts to grow.. if you spend all day replying to every single email then you have no time to code |
| [04:45] | io_error | RahulXingh: You can ask matt why he didn’t answer your email yourself. Complaining about it to us doesn’t do anyone any good. |
| [04:45] | RahulXingh | if you ahve ever worked in the commercial arena, you’ll note that technical matters dont really matter. what matters is business. |
| [04:45] | michel_v | RahulXingh: now, you can sit and whine that #wordpress people don’t care about criticism, if that’s your idea. but rest assured that we do |
| [04:45] | RahulXingh | spam assasassin? |
| [04:45] | io_error | .g spamassassin |
| [04:45] | westi|work | spamassassin++ |
| [04:45] | io_error | oh crap, no phenny |
| [04:45] | westi|work | io_error: no phenny 😉 |
| [04:46] | RahulXingh | i personally use barracuda |
| [04:46] | io_error | error_bot: what’s spamassassin? |
| [04:46] | error_bot | Quit asking stupid questions, io_error. |
| [04:46] | io_error | oh crap, impudent bots. |
| [04:46] | io_error | http://spamassassin.apache.org/ |
| [04:46] | * | tanuki has quit (Connection timed out) |
| [04:46] | RahulXingh | i know what it is.. but thats not an excuse for “sorry didnt get your business request because of barracuda |
| [04:47] | RahulXingh | or “sorry didnt get yoru business request because of spamkiller’ |
| [04:47] | io_error | RahulXingh: SpamAssassin returns it to the sender, if possible |
| [04:47] | RahulXingh | yes you are open source, yes you are volunteer run, but atleat you should have some sort of interface for businessmen if you dont plan on having the most responsible people of the group answer ALL their emails |
| [04:48] | io_error | now that’s criticism that is usable |
| [04:48] | * | io_error curses UPnP |
| [04:49] | westi|work | io_error: disable it! |
| [04:49] | io_error | westi|work: I can’t! |
| [04:49] | westi|work | 🙁 |
| [04:49] | io_error | westi|work: or I haven’t figured out what to hack yet |
| [04:49] | RahulXingh | that is what i am here for. i believe that open source can change the world , but if the people aren’t going to be responsible for all the streams of input comign to them, how reliable is it going to be? |
| [04:49] | io_error | westi|work: it’s the stupid DSL modem |
| [04:49] | * | milkbasilica (milkbasili@h-66-167-234-41.mclnva23.dynamic.covad.net) has joined #wordpress |
| [04:49] | westi|work | RahulXingh: have you tried emailing hosting@wp.org since the hosting page appeared? |
| [04:50] | RahulXingh | why would people use open source software to a) do business with it b) use it for business |
| [04:50] | RahulXingh | westi|work: is that supposed to be a “read the fine manual’ type of comment i get from EVERY fricking open source project? |
| [04:51] | RahulXingh | westi|work: NO, i didnt send email there, because i sent an email to the APPARENT leader of the project |
| [04:51] | michel_v | well then |
| [04:51] | michel_v | send an email there. it’s there for that specific reason. |
| [04:51] | RahulXingh | ah i see.. so i try to make a business connection, my request gets ignored and i have to try other channels>/ |
| [04:52] | * | indranil (indranil@59.93.160.218) has joined #wordpress |
| [04:52] | _infobot | indranil is a MAD MAN hailing from http://troidus.com and http://design.troidus.com and needs work and h4wt3r than tunicwriter, no matter what anyone says. |
| [04:52] | michel_v | I don’t mean to be harsh, but it seems that your first grief was that you didn’t get a link before you started on your project, and you are now moving to other grief areas just to get a little comfort |
| [04:52] | io_error | “We also realize that we can’t highlight every good host, but if you have a favorite host you think we should feature here, let us know.’ |
| [04:53] | * | HPNadig has quit (‘Leaving’) |
| [04:53] | westi|work | RahulXingh: you have an issue with the fact you didn’t get a respone.. there is now a direct channel for hosts/users to recommend hosts so why not try it? that was all. Maybe matt hasn’t responded because he has divested the responsability to the other wp devs – or it requires a group decision.. |
| [04:53] | RahulXingh | michel_v,_io_error: there is no grief other than the fact that after my emailing the leader of the project on talks on how to do wordpress hosting, there is a page dedicated to it, and no response to my EMAIL |
| [04:53] | michel_v | RahulXingh: well, when you want to make a STUFF deal with Microsoft, do you e-mail STUFF@microsoft.com or steveballmer@microsoft.com? |
| [04:53] | io_error | michel_v: I would just call Steve Ballmer, myself…but then again… |
| [04:54] | michel_v | RahulXingh: it could be that Matt missed some email, too. that’s why I already told you to contact Matt again |
| [04:54] | * | indranil has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| [04:54] | RahulXingh | michel_v: i approach what is available to market, if i cannot get in touch i argue, if i dont get a meeting, i CONQUER |
| [04:54] | michel_v | I consider this whole discussion abuse. |
| [04:55] | RahulXingh | i try my best to help, market, but if the group isnt willing, i will take it over. plain and simple |
| [04:55] | VxJasonxV^Clone | You act though the hosting page was put up just to spite your request… |
| [04:55] | io_error | LOL |
| [04:55] | io_error | good luck! |
| [04:55] | westi|work | RahulXingh: that kind of attitude wont wine you friends |
| [04:55] | michel_v | Matt is not “the group’, and you are not accomplishing anything by complaining to “the group’ about Matt’s e-mail policy |
| [04:55] | westi|work | s/wine/win/ |
| [04:55] | RahulXingh | michel_v: abuse? ok . i see. here i am trying to get a “court’ with the king so to speak, and i am being berated |
| [04:56] | io_error | RahulXingh: This is not a hierarchy. |
| [04:56] | RahulXingh | if it isnt a hiearchy, then why cant i speak here and get my voice hearx?> |
| [04:56] | RahulXingh | heard? |
| [04:56] | io_error | RahulXingh: We’ve “heard’ every word you said. |
| [04:56] | RahulXingh | why are you putting me into beuracracy of emailing such and such if itsnt a hiearchy> |
| [04:56] | michel_v | your voice has been heard. what more do you want, us e-mailing logs of this conversation to “the king’? |
| [04:57] | io_error | King Matt. Now that’s funny. |
| [04:57] | io_error | I suggest you yell at matt next time he drops in here. 🙂 |
| [04:57] | michel_v | RahulXingh: because you can’t do business without a little organisation |
| [04:57] | io_error | error_bot: seen photomatt |
| [04:57] | error_bot | io_error: photomatt was last seen in #wordpress 1 day, 12 hours, 16 minutes, and 50 seconds ago saying: <photomatt> uplink333: yes |
| [04:57] | westi|work | or send hosting@ an email |
| [04:57] | RahulXingh | no. you are representatives of this organization of wordpress. you should acknowledge my plea and take it to where it needs to be heard. if it doesnt get therre, and you force me to email such and such, then it is beuracratic hierarchy |
| [04:58] | VxJasonxV^Clone | wait |
| [04:58] | VxJasonxV^Clone | wait |
| [04:58] | michel_v | RahulXingh: who is a representative? |
| [04:58] | westi|work | RahulXingh: we are users not representatives |
| [04:58] | io_error | RahulXingh: Wait a minute, who in here represents WordPress?! |
| [04:58] | VxJasonxV^Clone | IRC participants is a representative? |
| [04:58] | VxJasonxV^Clone | are* +s* |
| [04:58] | RahulXingh | ah i see, so now you arent representatives at all |
| [04:58] | VxJasonxV^Clone | Of course not |
| [04:58] | VxJasonxV^Clone | we’re USERS |
| [04:58] | RahulXingh | who is then responsible fro this group? |
| [04:58] | io_error | And as far as I know, none of us claimed to be. |
| [04:58] | VxJasonxV^Clone | possible contributers |
| [04:58] | westi|work | RahulXingh: we never were |
| [04:58] | RahulXingh | is noone here where the buck stops? |
| [04:58] | VxJasonxV^Clone | this is not #wordpress-dev or #wordpress-staff |
| [04:58] | * | indranil (indranil@59.93.161.139) has joined #wordpress |
| [04:58] | michel_v | now please shut up. this is abuse, plain and simple. take your passive aggressive whining plea to hosting@wordpress.org |
| [04:58] | Heim|away | what’s up people |
| [04:59] | * | Heim|away is now known as Heimidal |
| [04:59] | _infobot | Heimidal is Brian Rose from Greeley, CO, a.k.a. ‘the most boring place on earth’. Find him at http://www.heimidal.net |
| [04:59] | RahulXingh | _that_ my fellow IRC’ers is beauracracy and hiearchy when you are REFERRED to other groups to get shit done |
| [04:59] | VxJasonxV^Clone | We already referred you there. |
| [04:59] | VxJasonxV^Clone | because we know of it’s existence, and gave you that suggestion |
| [04:59] | VxJasonxV^Clone | LONG ago |
| [04:59] | io_error | RahulXingh: You wouldn’t ask the janitor about payroll errors. |
| [04:59] | RahulXingh | the moment people say “this isnt my problem, go here’, you are a beauracracy |
| [05:00] | * | indranil has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| [05:00] | io_error | And if you did, he would probably say “Yeah, they messed up my paycheck once too, made me waitTWO WEEKS to get my money.’ |
| [05:00] | michel_v | it’s not our problem. it’s your problem |
| [05:00] | michel_v | your irrealistic expectations of a users group |
| [05:00] | michel_v | you’re diving head first in a pool of shit and now you’re complaining that it stinks down there |
| [05:01] | VxJasonxV^Clone | How wonderfully descriptive michel >_> |
| [05:01] | VxJasonxV^Clone | haha |
| [05:01] | michel_v | seriously, I hate being harsh, but you’re making me (and probably some others) lose any ounce of patience and respect I had for your words |
| [05:01] | RahulXingh | michel_v: if open source has to succeed, it has to take input from every input area possible and make sure that it gets done. if you are here in the channel and you can get this message somewhere, you should. if there isnt a proper representative here you should find one. I am a NEW person here. I want to talk to a perosn and get HELP. |
| [05:01] | * | HPNadig (~HPNadig@59.92.140.49) has joined #wordpress |
| [05:01] | westi|work | RahulXingh: you are asking us to do the equivalent of taking your car to the garage because we use the garage, your cars broke, and they didn’t answer the phone when you rung them up. it doesn’t make sense! |
| [05:02] | Heimidal | the people here may not represent the software, but every single person you’re speaking with can, in some way, be looked at as representing this channel’s intentions. If you’re told by everyone here to go elsewhere to solve a problem, you should probably take that at face value. That’s not just this channel, either… I believe that’s the typical policy in every community-based IRC chat room every created. 😛 |
| [05:02] | RahulXingh | westi|work: that is how business works. you cannt expect to compete if you have that attitude |
| [05:02] | Heimidal | we do it in #phpbb as well, and that’s an established support channel 😛 |
| [05:02] | michel_v | now please excuse me, I have more productive things to do on this fine friday |
| [05:03] | io_error | If I take my car to the garage, I don’t expect the other customers to fix it! |
| [05:03] | * | indranil (indranil@59.93.164.165) has joined #wordpress |
| [05:03] | Heimidal | when did this become a business? We’re a bunch of people who like WordPress… |
| [05:03] | michel_v | RahulXingh: comes a point when to be able to compete, you have to ignore whiny clients and partners that do nothing but drag and slow you down |
| [05:03] | RahulXingh | io_error: ok… well who pays for the development of wordpress? |
| [05:03] | michel_v | I’m sorry but, the way you make things be, you’re a burden |
| [05:03] | io_error | RahulXingh: HAHAHAHAHAHA |
| [05:03] | Heimidal | no one. it’s not a paid project. it’s a hobby for several people. |
| [05:03] | westi|work | RahulXingh: the developers! |
| [05:04] | * | HPNadig has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
| [05:04] | RahulXingh | michel_v: when you make software, you automatically take burdens and become servants to your customers. I am a servant to all my clients and my custommers. I ENSURE that what they need is taken care of. |
| [05:04] | io_error | out of their own pockets, mostly. |
| [05:04] | io_error | RahulXingh: Great, now go ask the people who make the software! |
| [05:04] | RahulXingh | io_error: so that means that you dont EVER want this software used in business |
| [05:05] | Heimidal | RahulXingh: you need to differentiate the concept of “customers’ and “people taking advantage of someone else’s work for free’ |
| [05:05] | michel_v | RahulXingh: well, I take paypal donations at michelv at gmail dot com. now show some serious money and we’ll discuss about code or whatever |
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| [05:05] | michel_v | but in the meanwhile, I’m getting nothing, I’m losing time, and you aren’t helping |
| [05:05] | RahulXingh | io_error: that is the problem. becaues you are giving it for free, you deny any criticism or improvement because “this is our hobby, so screw you guys’ |
| [05:05] | io_error | RahulXingh: I am not giving away WP for free |
| [05:06] | RahulXingh | obviously someone is: if there is a cost, i will PAY GLADLY |
| [05:06] | RahulXingh | how much do you charge? |
| [05:06] | michel_v | io_error: I hand out floppy disks with WP on it to random people |
| [05:06] | splee|work | michel_v: people still use floppy disks?! |
| [05:06] | RahulXingh | because when I pay, i expect results, and I expect some level of respect |
| [05:06] | splee|work | 😉 |
| [05:06] | michel_v | io_error: then I get people telling me “but I don’t have a floppy disk driver, you really don’t want WP to succeed in business, right?’ |
| [05:06] | io_error | michel_v: you should put together a mini-Linux distro with web server and WP pre-installed, on a business card sized CD 🙂 |
| [05:06] | Heimidal | RahulXingh: what exactly are you wanting? I came in mid-conversation 😛 |
| [05:07] | michel_v | RahulXingh: let’s start from the beginning then. do you have an offering that could be linked to from the hosting page? |
| [05:07] | -io_error- | Oh no, you asked for it. He’s been whining for the last hour about how photomatt didn’t answer his email about being put on the hosting page. But he doesn’t offer WP hosting! |
| [05:07] | Heimidal | lol |
| [05:07] | RahulXingh | Heimidal: i want to be able to come to wordpress and say that I have XYZ , ABC customer who is using my hosting service, i would like to N amount of money as donation, and K amount of money for consulting. |
| [05:08] | michel_v | RahulXingh: if you don’t, come back when you have one, and you have some good customer feedback and rep |
| [05:08] | io_error | There’s a verb missing there somewhere. |
| [05:08] | RahulXingh | michel_v: you don’t understand sales. it is not about product pages, it is about talking to people and making contacts |
| [05:08] | RahulXingh RainbowW Ravensky | |
| [05:08] | michel_v | RahulXingh: the only thing Matt could do there is putting a link to your offering, and that’s what you came in here arguing about |
| [05:09] | RahulXingh | michel_v: NO, I am asking why my email was _never_ answered. |
| [05:09] | westi|work | RahulXingh: we can’t answer that |
| [05:09] | michel_v | RahulXingh: that’s an irrationnal question then |
| [05:09] | io_error | RahulXingh: You would have to ask matt. We have no idea. |
| [05:09] | Heimidal | RahulXingh: I don’t know if WP devs take donations, but I can tell you why phpBB and other OSS projects don’t – people tend to expect their voice to be heard over the voices of others if they give a donation |
| [05:09] | indranil | Rahul, mail Matt again |
| [05:10] | RahulXingh | Heimidal: as developers of products, customers are your clients, and theones that pay want things that hsould be taken care of |
| [05:10] | michel_v | Heimidal: the funny thing is when someone donates $5 and expects $100 worth of modifications |
| [05:10] | * | Narada is now known as Narada|away |
| [05:10] | Heimidal | RahulXingh: and that’s why phpBB doesn’t take donations. that way, paying customers don’t exist. |
| [05:11] | RahulXingh | michel_v: then you should have possible feaures at 100% price ranges |
| [05:11] | michel_v | RahulXingh: you’re the one offering services around WP. you’re the one offering support |
| [05:11] | RahulXingh | 100$ |
| [05:11] | michel_v | do not expect a free lunch |
| [05:11] | Heimidal | as for consulting, there are thousands of people that will do consulting for you. Just find one. However, with the attitude you’ve had here since I came in and the accusation that we’ve turned a simple community chat room into a “bureaucracy’, you’ve probably missed out on the best consulting services money can buy from the people you’ve been accusing. |
| [05:11] | RahulXingh | michel_v: i am not expecting ANY free lunch |
| [05:11] | RahulXingh | michel_v: i am expecting conversation with those interested in monetary contributions back to the project |
| [05:12] | io_error | heh, since I’m not a WP developer, the only monetary contributions I’m interested in are those that wind up in my pocket. 🙂 |
| [05:12] | Heimidal | and WordPress is NOT a “product’. “Product’ insinuates a sale. WordPress is a _project_. Please work out your lingo before arguing that sales matters in this forum. |
| [05:12] | michel_v | oh well. begone, trollish conversation. I’m minimising this window and not looking back. have fun |
| [05:13] | RahulXingh | michel_v: if i have done anything wrong, forgive me. but i will have to walk on and go to the next, thank you for your time. |
| [05:13] | Heimidal | email Matt. he’s the only primary contact for WordPress itself and, as far as I know, the only one who makes any type of business decisions. if he doesn’t respond to you, you’re SOL. |
| [05:14] | io_error | please send a note to hosting@wordpress.org. |
| [05:15] | RahulXingh | Heimidal: No, i am done at this point, and will probably make competing software now, i tried my best to make a point and was chastized. I have no reason to work with a group of people so ignorant to business. |
| [05:15] | RahulXingh | thank you for your time and conversation |
| [05:15] | Heimidal | furthermore, as someone who runs a company in the hosting market, you really should learn the appropriate channels of conversation among businesspeople before going on some tyrannical rant against a community you know nothing about. |
| [05:15] | RahulXingh | and forgive me if i have offended anyoen |
| [05:15] | ryanduff|sleep | io_error: after clearing my logs from my cron job, i did a SELECT * FROM `bad_behavior_log` WHERE `http_response` = ‘403’ and returned 43 results since last night |
| [05:16] | VxJasonxV^Clone | The actions and words of the users should not reflect that of the staff and resposible parties. |
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| [05:16] | io_error | ryanduff|sleep: that sounds about right. |
| [05:16] | Heimidal | good luck at trying to compete. 200,000 downloads is hard to top without years of work 😉 |
| [05:16] | io_error | heheheh. |
| [05:17] | splee|work | Not that there’s anything to really ‘compete’ against. It’s not like you’ll put wordpress out of business as it’s not a business in the first place. |
| [05:17] | io_error | It’s doable, but you’d better have about a billion dollars. |
| [05:17] | ryanduff|sleep | io_error: what was that about |
| [05:17] | RahulXingh | heimidal: i ahve legions of other open source software programmers on my staff. 200, 000 is _nothing_ . you may not have heard of me, but that doesnt mean _anything_ |
| [05:17] | io_error | ryanduff|sleep: 43 blocked results overnight sounds about right, though I probably would have expected more |
| [05:17] | RahulXingh | good luck |
| [05:17] | splee|work | RahulXingh: Then, speaking for myself, I wish you and your legions good like. |
| [05:17] | ryanduff|sleep | thats the stupidest thing i’ve ever heard… you won’t listen, so i’m going to make a competing product |
| [05:17] | ryanduff|sleep | RahulXingh: how old are you? 14? |
| [05:18] | io_error | ryanduff|sleep: yeah, and he’s not even talking to the people he claims to want to talk to. |
| [05:18] | Heimidal | yes, let’s play a game of “who’s is the biggest’. I work with the top web-based open source software title on earth. Please, PLEASE continue this argument so I can put you in your place. 😛 |
| [05:18] | splee|work | s/like/luck |
| [05:18] | RahulXingh | ryanduff: its called, “you are not providing the servcice that i need, so i have to find other sercices or come up with with my own’ |
| [05:18] | * | twidget (Charles@adsl-0-5-197.shv.bellsouth.net) has joined #wordpress |
| [05:18] | io_error | RahulXingh: and exactly what service do you need?! |
| [05:18] | _infobot | twidget is a #wordpress regular, blogging at twidget.net, louisianablogs.org and (sometimes) at charlesstricklin.com. |
| [05:18] | ryanduff|sleep | well then why come in here and make a pain and the ass out of yourself |
| [05:18] | splee|work | RahulXingh: I don’t know how many times it has to be said: No one here is providing a service. |
| [05:19] | twidget | MCincubus|sleep: awake? |
| [05:19] | io_error | twidget: no 🙂 |
| [05:19] | michel_v | oh well, I checked the window again. |
| [05:19] | splee|work | RahulXingh: This is a community channel and we help each other because we *can* |
| [05:19] | * | nacken has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| [05:19] | RahulXingh | io_error, splee|work: that is why Redhat, Mandrake make money, while debian sucks a fat one |
| [05:19] | io_error | haha, debian isn’t trying to make money |
| [05:19] | splee|work | RahulXingh: *sigh* |
| [05:19] | * | RahulXingh (~anantatma@ip68-100-168-225.dc.dc.cox.net) has left #wordpress |
| [05:19] | * | westi|work cheers |
| [05:19] | michel_v | RahulXingh: do you expect talking like that on #redhat or #mandrake would land you a juicy contract or good services? |
| [05:19] | io_error | Good fucking riddance. |
| [05:20] | twidget | He posted at 5:30 AM, so he must be |
| [05:20] | * | westi|work breaths the fresh air |
| [05:20] | io_error | I wouldn’t WANT to work for someone like that. |
| [05:20] | westi|work | io_error: i doubt anybody does! |
| [05:20] | splee|work | I don’t think that guy had a CLUE what an open source project is about. |
| [05:20] | Heimidal | seriously… he’s the type I’d simply say no to. |
| [05:20] | michel_v | nobody wants abusive clients when they can spend their time searching for better ones |
| [05:20] | io_error | I wonder what was in his original email to matt. He’s generally very good at answering everything. |
| [05:21] | Heimidal | splee|work: Open Source… Business… Life… |
| [05:21] | io_error | Even if it’s to say “you suck, go away.’ |
| [05:21] | westi|work | io_error: maybe the subject way – “Make, Money, Fast’ ! |
| [05:21] | * | ryanduff|sleep jumps for joy! |