How not to market your business

I was just about to go to bed, when this person logged in to IRC and started asking… No, that’s not right. Started whining…

Ostensibly, he wanted to enter into some sort of business arrangement with WordPress, to send him sales leads. But we found out he had no product and a serious need for therapy.

A complete log of an hour of wasted time follows.

[04:13] * RahulXingh ( has joined #wordpress
[04:13] _infobot Milords, Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome RahulXingh
[04:14] westi|work pierro: yes you can use classes instead of functions for filters as far as i know
[04:15] RahulXingh i approached Matt Mullenweg to notify him of our interest to support wordpress commercially, and a few weeks later i saw that you guys had corporate sponsors
[04:15] RahulXingh for hosting
[04:15] pierro thanks westi|work
[04:15] RahulXingh is this such an exclusive club that I cant host and market wordpress?
[04:16] westi|work RahulXingh: i don’t think so
[04:16] io_error RahulXingh: No one is stopping you from hosting WP and marketing your service
[04:17] pierro GPL 🙂
[04:17] RahulXingh my question was to have an partership with wordpress to see if we could work together
[04:17] RahulXingh and two weeks later 3 hosting companies were exclusively advertised, and i never got a response
[04:19] io_error RahulXingh: I don’t know why matt didn’t respond, but I can say that I doubt you would have been given much consideration unless you already had a hosting company going
[04:19] westi|work the hosting page is not necessarilly exlucsive .. i belive it came about because a lot of users were looking for recommendations of hosts that are wp friendly.. the list is not meant to be all consuming but just a flavour of whats available
[04:20] io_error and that give WP cash for referrals 🙂
[04:20] RahulXingh i understand that , and i outlined that as part of my contact email ..
[04:20] io_error RahulXingh: which is your hosting company?
[04:20] RahulXingh my focus currently is CMS hosting
[04:21] RahulXingh ( still in development , but we have a rack at equinix supporting 25 servers )
[04:22] VxJasonxV^Clone how is .net nuke?
[04:22] io_error error_bot: dns
[04:22] error_bot io_error:
[04:22] io_error error_bot: dns
[04:22] VxJasonxV^Clone I’ve heard a lot lately.
[04:22] error_bot io_error: Host not found.
[04:23] * otaku42 (otaku@otaku42.developer.madwifi) has joined #wordpress
[04:23] RahulXingh my company is, but might be under maintenance right now.
[04:23] io_error error_bot: dns
[04:23] * otaku42 (otaku@otaku42.developer.madwifi) has left #wordpress (‘Leaving’)
[04:23] error_bot io_error:
[04:23] RahulXingh i have a few people working on the konotree Rainbow, konotree DotNetNuke products right now
[04:23] RahulXingh .net nuke sucks
[04:24] RahulXingh lot of the .net cms products suck compared to the mature php / mysql area
[04:24] io_error I think we’ve found the reason you were passed over.
[04:24] pierro ;D
[04:24] RahulXingh ah i see, so conversation on making a business deals requires a URL?
[04:24] * shep ( has joined #wordpress
[04:24] _infobot shep is a History major at Missouri State University and plans to become a High School Social Studies Teacher. He writes at and not a German Shepherd
[04:24] RahulXingh that’s ok, i guess i understand
[04:25] RahulXingh but matt used to be a client of a reseller of mine
[04:25] RahulXingh CDX Solutions
[04:25] io_error RahulXingh: at least, it requires that you run your own services rather than being hosted at some other company
[04:25] RahulXingh io_error: i own all my infrastructure, but let excellent companies like equinix take care of real estate and power
[04:26] RahulXingh when companies like google, amazon, and yahoo are int he same building as me, i consider my confidence level to be fairly good
[04:26] io_error RahulXingh: this is not at all apparent from any of the information you’ve provided.
[04:26] io_error If it had been, I’m sure your offer would have been considered more seriously.
[04:27] RahulXingh io_error: bottom line is that as a technical sales person and a architect of enterprise grade CMS systems for many companies, i would like to host and contribute to this product
[04:28] RahulXingh i dont judge software by its source code, and i work with other CMS systems from the .NET arena
[04:28] RahulXingh when there is a middlemanship of you arent approved because such and such, you are being hypocritical by the nature of your research and development methodology
[04:29] RahulXingh if you are open source, you should let the barrier to entry be as open to the businessmen as it is to the developers and users
[04:29] io_error RahulXingh: there is no barrier to entry here
[04:29] io_error RahulXingh: Again, no one is stopping you from creating and offering a product/service based on WP
[04:30] * tanuki_ ( has joined #wordpress
[04:30] RahulXingh io_error: if you know anything about marketing, it is about the analysis of networks. if i cannot be shown as a vendor from WordPress, i am no one
[04:30] io_error RahulXingh: all of the three vendors shown on that page already were offering WP in their hosting packages
[04:30] tanuki_ Is there a way to have a specific entry either not show up in the RSS feeds or have only a certain segment show up?
[04:31] io_error before they were listed
[04:31] RahulXingh io_errror: i offered specific questions on how to do this exact same thing before it was offered and i got no response
[04:31] io_error tanuki: You can change the excerpt to whatever you want, but I don’t know if there’s a way to keep an entry out of the RSS feed completely
[04:31] io_error RahulXingh: It’s your company, and your product.
[04:31] westi|work tanuki_: i guess you would need a plugin to filter the query for the feed probably
[04:31] tanuki_ io_error: I have my feeds set to fulltext
[04:32] io_error RahulXingh: Start offering WP to your customers. What’s so hard about that?
[04:32] RahulXingh io_error: no, it is your product and me offering it makes me a franchisee. me coming to you and asking for endorsement was a move of respect, which was shot down
[04:32] io_error RahulXingh: You have completely misunderstood something somewhere.
[04:33] tanuki_ I’d love a “Excerpt if excerpt is defined, else fulltext’ RSS option
[04:33] io_error RahulXingh: In no way does offering WP as a product make you a franchisee of anything.
[04:33] westi|work anyone is free to offer WP in anyway – including there own fork if they so wish
[04:33] io_error westi|work: quite true
[04:33] RahulXingh io_error: the basis of taking a product, offering a service geared around it is making a move as a franchisee. otherwise i could have made my own product
[04:34] io_error RahulXingh: False.
[04:34] RahulXingh io_error: if i have no support from the product vendor, i am noone
[04:34] tanuki_ Basically, I’m going to be writing something that I don’t want people to stumble upon unexpectedly
[04:34] westi|work RahulXingh: there is no product vendor
[04:34] io_error RahulXingh: You have as much support from the non-existent product vendor as anyone else.
[04:35] RahulXingh io_error: i am interested in marketing konotree or anant, i am interested in marketing wordpress,
[04:35] tanuki_ so I want a “Yes, I want to read it, dammit’ interstitial step
[04:35] io_error tanuki: Password the post
[04:35] io_error tanuki: and put the password in the post title
[04:35] tanuki_ io_error: Ick.
[04:35] io_error hey, it works
[04:35] tanuki_ io_error: I want *some* of it to be readable, though
[04:35] tanuki_ enough to describe the content
[04:35] westi|work tanuki_: or put the post in a page that is linked from the post
[04:35] westi|work 🙂
[04:35] io_error tanuki_: …
[04:36] io_error tanuki: or stop sending full-text feeds
[04:36] westi|work s/linked/only linked/
[04:36] tanuki_ io_error: I *like* fulltext feeds. usually.
[04:36] RahulXingh io_error: WordPress is a product. There is a group of people that produce it. If I as a product SUPPORt company cannot be linked somehow from the product devcelopment company, I am not as effectivre
[04:36] RahulXingh does that make ssnese?
[04:36] io_error RahulXingh: Perfect sense
[04:37] io_error RahulXingh: You don’t need that link in order to get started, nor to succeed.
[04:37] westi|work RahulXingh: it makes sense… but you cannot expect to be linked before you have a product.. or any user feedback
[04:37] RahulXingh io_error: that is what i was tryign to establish, an idea of a product service company. i didnt get any response, but two weeks later, a page that endorses 3 companies
[04:37] michel_v RahulXingh: there’s a lot of responsibility in endorsing a support company
[04:37] westi|work and as io_error says the existance/non-existance of that link does not guarantee sucess/failure
[04:37] * ringo999 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[04:37] io_error RahulXingh: I know several hosting companies that wanted to be on that page, and offer WP as a product available with their packages, and yet were not chosen
[04:38] io_error And they’re still in business somehow
[04:38] io_error and still offering WP
[04:38] io_error RahulXingh: Those companies offer WP to their customers because there is demand for it.
[04:38] westi|work in fact being linked from that page could be a companies downfall if the get all the newbie wp users with no clue that require oooodles of support 😉
[04:38] io_error RahulXingh: I doubt you will have that much trouble marketing your service.
[04:39] RahulXingh io_error: i dont think you quite get my argument. i approached matt in confidence to talk about the idea to see if it was feasible and would be possible …
[04:39] io_error RahulXingh: and he failed to respond.
[04:39] westi|work and your server if good will get marketed by its users
[04:39] westi|work s/server/service/
[04:39] RahulXingh not only was their a failure of response, there was an apparent, “oh here we he like these guys, buy from then’
[04:40] io_error RahulXingh: well, there was also a lack of product on your part. and nothing to link to!
[04:41] RahulXingh io_error: the product is hosting an existing product!!!. if i ask someone whether they;d be willign to work with us taking it off, i’d at least expect a reply saying “we have our inner circle’ or “you dont have aproduct page’
[04:41] io_error RahulXingh: Don’t ask me to speak to matt’s motives. I cannot. I don’t know them.
[04:42] michel_v RahulXingh: the question is, did you already have your business going with WP when you contacted Matt?
[04:42] io_error RahulXingh: All I know is you don’t have a product, and those companies do.
[04:42] RahulXingh io_error: i have been makign enterprise CMS and mid level CMS for 7 years, and can make better software than wordpress and anything else that;s out there. but i dont want to step on any ones toes.
[04:42] RahulXingh you guys do a good job and iw ant to support you
[04:42] RahulXingh but when i am ignored, that really makes me think twice of whether or not i should be supporting open source
[04:43] RahulXingh in business practicality is everything
[04:43] io_error RahulXingh: If you want to sit here all morning and complain about photomatt not answering your email, go right ahead. But I have things that need to get done, and so do you.
[04:43] RahulXingh being able to use what is available is gold
[04:43] RahulXingh that;s the problem with you guys, BECAUSE you give away your stuff, you dont take any criticism from customers, uses, possible channel partnerts
[04:44] RahulXingh becaues you have “other stuff to do’
[04:44] io_error RahulXingh: I answer all my email.
[04:44] RahulXingh fine. be that way
[04:44] io_error If it isn’t killed by SpamAssassin. 🙂
[04:44] RahulXingh ignore the people who want to help you
[04:44] io_error RahulXingh: OK, get your head out of your ass.
[04:44] westi|work i cannot speak for matts motives… but i would not be supprised that given the current growth in wp (the rate the downloads are going for 1.5 shows that) i would not be supprised if matt is recieving a heck of a lot of emails similar to your RahulXingh and is having to ingore all but the ones that already have a visible product and meet the hosting requirements.
[04:44] RahulXingh that shouldnt be my problem.
[04:45] michel_v RahulXingh: we have discussed with you, your problem is with Matt and Matt alone; and with the apparent lack of a product to endorse on your part
[04:45] westi|work it is a call someone has to take when the volume of email the recieve starts to grow.. if you spend all day replying to every single email then you have no time to code
[04:45] io_error RahulXingh: You can ask matt why he didn’t answer your email yourself. Complaining about it to us doesn’t do anyone any good.
[04:45] RahulXingh if you ahve ever worked in the commercial arena, you’ll note that technical matters dont really matter. what matters is business.
[04:45] michel_v RahulXingh: now, you can sit and whine that #wordpress people don’t care about criticism, if that’s your idea. but rest assured that we do
[04:45] RahulXingh spam assasassin?
[04:45] io_error .g spamassassin
[04:45] westi|work spamassassin++
[04:45] io_error oh crap, no phenny
[04:45] westi|work io_error: no phenny 😉
[04:46] RahulXingh i personally use barracuda
[04:46] io_error error_bot: what’s spamassassin?
[04:46] error_bot Quit asking stupid questions, io_error.
[04:46] io_error oh crap, impudent bots.
[04:46] io_error
[04:46] * tanuki has quit (Connection timed out)
[04:46] RahulXingh i know what it is.. but thats not an excuse for “sorry didnt get your business request because of barracuda
[04:47] RahulXingh or “sorry didnt get yoru business request because of spamkiller’
[04:47] io_error RahulXingh: SpamAssassin returns it to the sender, if possible
[04:47] RahulXingh yes you are open source, yes you are volunteer run, but atleat you should have some sort of interface for businessmen if you dont plan on having the most responsible people of the group answer ALL their emails
[04:48] io_error now that’s criticism that is usable
[04:48] * io_error curses UPnP
[04:49] westi|work io_error: disable it!
[04:49] io_error westi|work: I can’t!
[04:49] westi|work 🙁
[04:49] io_error westi|work: or I haven’t figured out what to hack yet
[04:49] RahulXingh that is what i am here for. i believe that open source can change the world , but if the people aren’t going to be responsible for all the streams of input comign to them, how reliable is it going to be?
[04:49] io_error westi|work: it’s the stupid DSL modem
[04:49] * milkbasilica ( has joined #wordpress
[04:49] westi|work RahulXingh: have you tried emailing since the hosting page appeared?
[04:50] RahulXingh why would people use open source software to a) do business with it b) use it for business
[04:50] RahulXingh westi|work: is that supposed to be a “read the fine manual’ type of comment i get from EVERY fricking open source project?
[04:51] RahulXingh westi|work: NO, i didnt send email there, because i sent an email to the APPARENT leader of the project
[04:51] michel_v well then
[04:51] michel_v send an email there. it’s there for that specific reason.
[04:51] RahulXingh ah i see.. so i try to make a business connection, my request gets ignored and i have to try other channels>/
[04:52] * indranil (indranil@ has joined #wordpress
[04:52] _infobot indranil is a MAD MAN hailing from and and needs work and h4wt3r than tunicwriter, no matter what anyone says.
[04:52] michel_v I don’t mean to be harsh, but it seems that your first grief was that you didn’t get a link before you started on your project, and you are now moving to other grief areas just to get a little comfort
[04:52] io_error “We also realize that we can’t highlight every good host, but if you have a favorite host you think we should feature here, let us know.’
[04:53] * HPNadig has quit (‘Leaving’)
[04:53] westi|work RahulXingh: you have an issue with the fact you didn’t get a respone.. there is now a direct channel for hosts/users to recommend hosts so why not try it? that was all. Maybe matt hasn’t responded because he has divested the responsability to the other wp devs – or it requires a group decision..
[04:53] RahulXingh michel_v,_io_error: there is no grief other than the fact that after my emailing the leader of the project on talks on how to do wordpress hosting, there is a page dedicated to it, and no response to my EMAIL
[04:53] michel_v RahulXingh: well, when you want to make a STUFF deal with Microsoft, do you e-mail or
[04:53] io_error michel_v: I would just call Steve Ballmer, myself…but then again…
[04:54] michel_v RahulXingh: it could be that Matt missed some email, too. that’s why I already told you to contact Matt again
[04:54] * indranil has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[04:54] RahulXingh michel_v: i approach what is available to market, if i cannot get in touch i argue, if i dont get a meeting, i CONQUER
[04:54] michel_v I consider this whole discussion abuse.
[04:55] RahulXingh i try my best to help, market, but if the group isnt willing, i will take it over. plain and simple
[04:55] VxJasonxV^Clone You act though the hosting page was put up just to spite your request…
[04:55] io_error LOL
[04:55] io_error good luck!
[04:55] westi|work RahulXingh: that kind of attitude wont wine you friends
[04:55] michel_v Matt is not “the group’, and you are not accomplishing anything by complaining to “the group’ about Matt’s e-mail policy
[04:55] westi|work s/wine/win/
[04:55] RahulXingh michel_v: abuse? ok . i see. here i am trying to get a “court’ with the king so to speak, and i am being berated
[04:56] io_error RahulXingh: This is not a hierarchy.
[04:56] RahulXingh if it isnt a hiearchy, then why cant i speak here and get my voice hearx?>
[04:56] RahulXingh heard?
[04:56] io_error RahulXingh: We’ve “heard’ every word you said.
[04:56] RahulXingh why are you putting me into beuracracy of emailing such and such if itsnt a hiearchy>
[04:56] michel_v your voice has been heard. what more do you want, us e-mailing logs of this conversation to “the king’?
[04:57] io_error King Matt. Now that’s funny.
[04:57] io_error I suggest you yell at matt next time he drops in here. 🙂
[04:57] michel_v RahulXingh: because you can’t do business without a little organisation
[04:57] io_error error_bot: seen photomatt
[04:57] error_bot io_error: photomatt was last seen in #wordpress 1 day, 12 hours, 16 minutes, and 50 seconds ago saying: <photomatt> uplink333: yes
[04:57] westi|work or send hosting@ an email
[04:57] RahulXingh no. you are representatives of this organization of wordpress. you should acknowledge my plea and take it to where it needs to be heard. if it doesnt get therre, and you force me to email such and such, then it is beuracratic hierarchy
[04:58] VxJasonxV^Clone wait
[04:58] VxJasonxV^Clone wait
[04:58] michel_v RahulXingh: who is a representative?
[04:58] westi|work RahulXingh: we are users not representatives
[04:58] io_error RahulXingh: Wait a minute, who in here represents WordPress?!
[04:58] VxJasonxV^Clone IRC participants is a representative?
[04:58] VxJasonxV^Clone are* +s*
[04:58] RahulXingh ah i see, so now you arent representatives at all
[04:58] VxJasonxV^Clone Of course not
[04:58] VxJasonxV^Clone we’re USERS
[04:58] RahulXingh who is then responsible fro this group?
[04:58] io_error And as far as I know, none of us claimed to be.
[04:58] VxJasonxV^Clone possible contributers
[04:58] westi|work RahulXingh: we never were
[04:58] RahulXingh is noone here where the buck stops?
[04:58] VxJasonxV^Clone this is not #wordpress-dev or #wordpress-staff
[04:58] * indranil (indranil@ has joined #wordpress
[04:58] michel_v now please shut up. this is abuse, plain and simple. take your passive aggressive whining plea to
[04:58] Heim|away what’s up people
[04:59] * Heim|away is now known as Heimidal
[04:59] _infobot Heimidal is Brian Rose from Greeley, CO, a.k.a. ‘the most boring place on earth’. Find him at
[04:59] RahulXingh _that_ my fellow IRC’ers is beauracracy and hiearchy when you are REFERRED to other groups to get shit done
[04:59] VxJasonxV^Clone We already referred you there.
[04:59] VxJasonxV^Clone because we know of it’s existence, and gave you that suggestion
[04:59] VxJasonxV^Clone LONG ago
[04:59] io_error RahulXingh: You wouldn’t ask the janitor about payroll errors.
[04:59] RahulXingh the moment people say “this isnt my problem, go here’, you are a beauracracy
[05:00] * indranil has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[05:00] io_error And if you did, he would probably say “Yeah, they messed up my paycheck once too, made me waitTWO WEEKS to get my money.’
[05:00] michel_v it’s not our problem. it’s your problem
[05:00] michel_v your irrealistic expectations of a users group
[05:00] michel_v you’re diving head first in a pool of shit and now you’re complaining that it stinks down there
[05:01] VxJasonxV^Clone How wonderfully descriptive michel >_>
[05:01] VxJasonxV^Clone haha
[05:01] michel_v seriously, I hate being harsh, but you’re making me (and probably some others) lose any ounce of patience and respect I had for your words
[05:01] RahulXingh michel_v: if open source has to succeed, it has to take input from every input area possible and make sure that it gets done. if you are here in the channel and you can get this message somewhere, you should. if there isnt a proper representative here you should find one. I am a NEW person here. I want to talk to a perosn and get HELP.
[05:01] * HPNadig (~HPNadig@ has joined #wordpress
[05:01] westi|work RahulXingh: you are asking us to do the equivalent of taking your car to the garage because we use the garage, your cars broke, and they didn’t answer the phone when you rung them up. it doesn’t make sense!
[05:02] Heimidal the people here may not represent the software, but every single person you’re speaking with can, in some way, be looked at as representing this channel’s intentions. If you’re told by everyone here to go elsewhere to solve a problem, you should probably take that at face value. That’s not just this channel, either… I believe that’s the typical policy in every community-based IRC chat room every created. 😛
[05:02] RahulXingh westi|work: that is how business works. you cannt expect to compete if you have that attitude
[05:02] Heimidal we do it in #phpbb as well, and that’s an established support channel 😛
[05:02] michel_v now please excuse me, I have more productive things to do on this fine friday
[05:03] io_error If I take my car to the garage, I don’t expect the other customers to fix it!
[05:03] * indranil (indranil@ has joined #wordpress
[05:03] Heimidal when did this become a business? We’re a bunch of people who like WordPress…
[05:03] michel_v RahulXingh: comes a point when to be able to compete, you have to ignore whiny clients and partners that do nothing but drag and slow you down
[05:03] RahulXingh io_error: ok… well who pays for the development of wordpress?
[05:03] michel_v I’m sorry but, the way you make things be, you’re a burden
[05:03] io_error RahulXingh: HAHAHAHAHAHA
[05:03] Heimidal no one. it’s not a paid project. it’s a hobby for several people.
[05:03] westi|work RahulXingh: the developers!
[05:04] * HPNadig has quit (Remote closed the connection)
[05:04] RahulXingh michel_v: when you make software, you automatically take burdens and become servants to your customers. I am a servant to all my clients and my custommers. I ENSURE that what they need is taken care of.
[05:04] io_error out of their own pockets, mostly.
[05:04] io_error RahulXingh: Great, now go ask the people who make the software!
[05:04] RahulXingh io_error: so that means that you dont EVER want this software used in business
[05:05] Heimidal RahulXingh: you need to differentiate the concept of “customers’ and “people taking advantage of someone else’s work for free’
[05:05] michel_v RahulXingh: well, I take paypal donations at michelv at gmail dot com. now show some serious money and we’ll discuss about code or whatever
[05:05] * nacken_ (~nacken@ has joined #wordpress
[05:05] michel_v but in the meanwhile, I’m getting nothing, I’m losing time, and you aren’t helping
[05:05] RahulXingh io_error: that is the problem. becaues you are giving it for free, you deny any criticism or improvement because “this is our hobby, so screw you guys’
[05:05] io_error RahulXingh: I am not giving away WP for free
[05:06] RahulXingh obviously someone is: if there is a cost, i will PAY GLADLY
[05:06] RahulXingh how much do you charge?
[05:06] michel_v io_error: I hand out floppy disks with WP on it to random people
[05:06] splee|work michel_v: people still use floppy disks?!
[05:06] RahulXingh because when I pay, i expect results, and I expect some level of respect
[05:06] splee|work 😉
[05:06] michel_v io_error: then I get people telling me “but I don’t have a floppy disk driver, you really don’t want WP to succeed in business, right?’
[05:06] io_error michel_v: you should put together a mini-Linux distro with web server and WP pre-installed, on a business card sized CD 🙂
[05:06] Heimidal RahulXingh: what exactly are you wanting? I came in mid-conversation 😛
[05:07] michel_v RahulXingh: let’s start from the beginning then. do you have an offering that could be linked to from the hosting page?
[05:07] -io_error- Oh no, you asked for it. He’s been whining for the last hour about how photomatt didn’t answer his email about being put on the hosting page. But he doesn’t offer WP hosting!
[05:07] Heimidal lol
[05:07] RahulXingh Heimidal: i want to be able to come to wordpress and say that I have XYZ , ABC customer who is using my hosting service, i would like to N amount of money as donation, and K amount of money for consulting.
[05:08] michel_v RahulXingh: if you don’t, come back when you have one, and you have some good customer feedback and rep
[05:08] io_error There’s a verb missing there somewhere.
[05:08] RahulXingh michel_v: you don’t understand sales. it is not about product pages, it is about talking to people and making contacts
[05:08] RahulXingh RainbowW Ravensky
[05:08] michel_v RahulXingh: the only thing Matt could do there is putting a link to your offering, and that’s what you came in here arguing about
[05:09] RahulXingh michel_v: NO, I am asking why my email was _never_ answered.
[05:09] westi|work RahulXingh: we can’t answer that
[05:09] michel_v RahulXingh: that’s an irrationnal question then
[05:09] io_error RahulXingh: You would have to ask matt. We have no idea.
[05:09] Heimidal RahulXingh: I don’t know if WP devs take donations, but I can tell you why phpBB and other OSS projects don’t – people tend to expect their voice to be heard over the voices of others if they give a donation
[05:09] indranil Rahul, mail Matt again
[05:10] RahulXingh Heimidal: as developers of products, customers are your clients, and theones that pay want things that hsould be taken care of
[05:10] michel_v Heimidal: the funny thing is when someone donates $5 and expects $100 worth of modifications
[05:10] * Narada is now known as Narada|away
[05:10] Heimidal RahulXingh: and that’s why phpBB doesn’t take donations. that way, paying customers don’t exist.
[05:11] RahulXingh michel_v: then you should have possible feaures at 100% price ranges
[05:11] michel_v RahulXingh: you’re the one offering services around WP. you’re the one offering support
[05:11] RahulXingh 100$
[05:11] michel_v do not expect a free lunch
[05:11] Heimidal as for consulting, there are thousands of people that will do consulting for you. Just find one. However, with the attitude you’ve had here since I came in and the accusation that we’ve turned a simple community chat room into a “bureaucracy’, you’ve probably missed out on the best consulting services money can buy from the people you’ve been accusing.
[05:11] RahulXingh michel_v: i am not expecting ANY free lunch
[05:11] RahulXingh michel_v: i am expecting conversation with those interested in monetary contributions back to the project
[05:12] io_error heh, since I’m not a WP developer, the only monetary contributions I’m interested in are those that wind up in my pocket. 🙂
[05:12] Heimidal and WordPress is NOT a “product’. “Product’ insinuates a sale. WordPress is a _project_. Please work out your lingo before arguing that sales matters in this forum.
[05:12] michel_v oh well. begone, trollish conversation. I’m minimising this window and not looking back. have fun
[05:13] RahulXingh michel_v: if i have done anything wrong, forgive me. but i will have to walk on and go to the next, thank you for your time.
[05:13] Heimidal email Matt. he’s the only primary contact for WordPress itself and, as far as I know, the only one who makes any type of business decisions. if he doesn’t respond to you, you’re SOL.
[05:14] io_error please send a note to
[05:15] RahulXingh Heimidal: No, i am done at this point, and will probably make competing software now, i tried my best to make a point and was chastized. I have no reason to work with a group of people so ignorant to business.
[05:15] RahulXingh thank you for your time and conversation
[05:15] Heimidal furthermore, as someone who runs a company in the hosting market, you really should learn the appropriate channels of conversation among businesspeople before going on some tyrannical rant against a community you know nothing about.
[05:15] RahulXingh and forgive me if i have offended anyoen
[05:15] ryanduff|sleep io_error: after clearing my logs from my cron job, i did a SELECT * FROM `bad_behavior_log` WHERE `http_response` = ‘403’ and returned 43 results since last night
[05:16] VxJasonxV^Clone The actions and words of the users should not reflect that of the staff and resposible parties.
[05:16] * fortran01 ( has joined #wordpress
[05:16] io_error ryanduff|sleep: that sounds about right.
[05:16] Heimidal good luck at trying to compete. 200,000 downloads is hard to top without years of work 😉
[05:16] io_error heheheh.
[05:17] splee|work Not that there’s anything to really ‘compete’ against. It’s not like you’ll put wordpress out of business as it’s not a business in the first place.
[05:17] io_error It’s doable, but you’d better have about a billion dollars.
[05:17] ryanduff|sleep io_error: what was that about
[05:17] RahulXingh heimidal: i ahve legions of other open source software programmers on my staff. 200, 000 is _nothing_ . you may not have heard of me, but that doesnt mean _anything_
[05:17] io_error ryanduff|sleep: 43 blocked results overnight sounds about right, though I probably would have expected more
[05:17] RahulXingh good luck
[05:17] splee|work RahulXingh: Then, speaking for myself, I wish you and your legions good like.
[05:17] ryanduff|sleep thats the stupidest thing i’ve ever heard… you won’t listen, so i’m going to make a competing product
[05:17] ryanduff|sleep RahulXingh: how old are you? 14?
[05:18] io_error ryanduff|sleep: yeah, and he’s not even talking to the people he claims to want to talk to.
[05:18] Heimidal yes, let’s play a game of “who’s is the biggest’. I work with the top web-based open source software title on earth. Please, PLEASE continue this argument so I can put you in your place. 😛
[05:18] splee|work s/like/luck
[05:18] RahulXingh ryanduff: its called, “you are not providing the servcice that i need, so i have to find other sercices or come up with with my own’
[05:18] * twidget ( has joined #wordpress
[05:18] io_error RahulXingh: and exactly what service do you need?!
[05:18] _infobot twidget is a #wordpress regular, blogging at, and (sometimes) at
[05:18] ryanduff|sleep well then why come in here and make a pain and the ass out of yourself
[05:18] splee|work RahulXingh: I don’t know how many times it has to be said: No one here is providing a service.
[05:19] twidget MCincubus|sleep: awake?
[05:19] io_error twidget: no 🙂
[05:19] michel_v oh well, I checked the window again.
[05:19] splee|work RahulXingh: This is a community channel and we help each other because we *can*
[05:19] * nacken has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[05:19] RahulXingh io_error, splee|work: that is why Redhat, Mandrake make money, while debian sucks a fat one
[05:19] io_error haha, debian isn’t trying to make money
[05:19] splee|work RahulXingh: *sigh*
[05:19] * RahulXingh ( has left #wordpress
[05:19] * westi|work cheers
[05:19] michel_v RahulXingh: do you expect talking like that on #redhat or #mandrake would land you a juicy contract or good services?
[05:19] io_error Good fucking riddance.
[05:20] twidget He posted at 5:30 AM, so he must be
[05:20] * westi|work breaths the fresh air
[05:20] io_error I wouldn’t WANT to work for someone like that.
[05:20] westi|work io_error: i doubt anybody does!
[05:20] splee|work I don’t think that guy had a CLUE what an open source project is about.
[05:20] Heimidal seriously… he’s the type I’d simply say no to.
[05:20] michel_v nobody wants abusive clients when they can spend their time searching for better ones
[05:20] io_error I wonder what was in his original email to matt. He’s generally very good at answering everything.
[05:21] Heimidal splee|work: Open Source… Business… Life…
[05:21] io_error Even if it’s to say “you suck, go away.’
[05:21] westi|work io_error: maybe the subject way – “Make, Money, Fast’ !
[05:21] * ryanduff|sleep jumps for joy!